One of our Best and Brightest offered the following observation:
Isn’t there another problem lurking for Presidential Motors?
Is my grasp of history wrong (or did I just live for a while in the wrong part of the country) but is not there a perception or urban legend or canard, how to put this gracefully, that Fords were for rednecks, and that Ford dealers were rednecks, and that GM, especially Pontiac and Cadillac, was much more open to the idea of having minority-owned dealerships, and that that went back to the early days of both Ford and GM?
When I lived in the South, I was told “Pontiac” meant “Poor Old N[egro] Thinks It’s a Cadillac.”
What if “too many” of the dealers whose contracts are about to be impaired outside the bankruptcy process and in clear violation of the clear text of the Constitution, turn out to be minorities?
And what about the blowback if all the euchered dealers turn out to be Pallidly Empenised Patriarchal Oppressors? (“PEPO”s)
It would seem to me that the Way Forward for both GM and Ford would be to look at the county-by-county map of red/blue election results, and be where Honda and Toyota are not, that is, stay out of the argula/Starbucks/ballet-theater zip codes, and have dealers in Foster, Gloucester, and “Chariho.” Problem with that is, you nuke all your inner-city dealers and keep all your whitebread dealers.
All of this is a long way, thinking out loud way, of asking: Isn’t it possible that the dealer-weeding process will result in some not-laughable claims that any given dealer was axed not for underperforming, but for positive or negative racial discrimination, to keep the balance as it was, or favor urban dealers, or favor rural dealers?
And my guess is that such claims would not be reached by any ad-hoc dealer-stripping legislation.
Fun times!
Interesting question.
I suspect economics will take precedent where dealerships are concerned, because future viability depends on proper rationalization and distribution.
UAW/CAW compensation and levels of employment are going to create the most volatile situations. In Ontario, CAW retirees have already been advised that Ontario will not be securing their pensions.
One thing’s for sure, there will be plenty of misery to go around, and the bozos that “managed” GM into this position are the only ones who won’t be offered a heaping helping.
Ummmm… so I’m trying to figure this out: are you proactively worrying that people will start complaining about something not being politically correct, so you’re complaining about it in advance?
In that case, are you complaining about political correctness or are you complaining about the fact that dealers who are closed down might complain about it?
And no – I never heard that stereotype, but I don’t get around much.
“Political correctness”? Did someone put us all in the Way Back Machine and set it to “1993”?
In recent years car companies have been forced{rightfully so}to hire minorities.In the union world seniority rules.Right, so the last to be hired are the first to get layed off.
Just wait untill somebody pries the lid of that can of worms.
@eh political…you are correct there’s is the perfect s–t storm coming.Take cover.
BDB: Yesterday’s paper:
“Ohio ready to drop ‘MRDD’:’Retardation’ leads to painful taunts, critics of term say” By Rita Price in the Columbus Dispatch on Friday, April 17, 2009:
People aren’t going to stop using the “R-word” overnight.
But a young man stung by it all his life issued this plea yesterday: Start trying.
“It is so not right,” said Mike Groleau of Circleville.
With legislation pending and fresh support from Gov. Ted Strickland, Ohio finally appears ready to drop the words mental retardation from the state and county agencies that serve children and adults with mental retardation and developmental disabilities.
At least 44 other states already have made the change.
There will be lawsuits for decades against the federal government once the dust settles from all the bailouts.
I’m honestly surprised they still use “retarded” as a medical term!
“There will be lawsuits for decades against the federal government ”
I’m pretty sure you can’t sue the govt.
“Mentally Retarded” is a medical term and, according to all my special education textbooks and reference materials, still applies. Just because schoolboys use it as a pejorative doesn’t make it politically incorrect. You can’t legislate a diagnostic term out of use because the diagnosis still needs to be made & named, and once there is a new name, that will become the new playground taunt.
Mental Retardation is characterized by an inability to exhibit normal adaptive behaviors. Don’t be surprised that it is still in use because it is descriptive of the delays exhibited by persons afflicted with this disability. The problem is not with the term, but with the people using the term in a negative context (i.e.: you’re retarded), which is reprehensible as it is basically a verbal assault on an already afflicted population.
In any case, changing the word doesn’t change kid’s ability to take the new word and misappropriate it. The problem is not what words we use for disability, but the cruelty of thoughtless people who use the words to mock others. As far as I know, MR is still a valid and accepted diagnosis.
As a result, the new two-letter acronym for being unable to “exhibit normal adaptive behaviors” will be “GM”.
Mental Retardation is characterized by an inability to exhibit normal adaptive behaviors.
Who knew.
GM management is mentally retarded!
Either way i see lots of billable hours for attorneys. I should have gone to law school.
It’s tough being Obama…
Crazy Henry was a peculiar kind of bird. Henry was one of the fist big industrialists to hire blacks in large numbers and pay them the same as his white employees. Henry ran his own newspaper, The Dearborn Independant, in which Jew baiting was a regular feature of the editorial page. At the same time Henry was publishing anti-Semitic rants, he employed 3,000 Jews in his car biz. Ford was also one of the first car companies that sold dealer franchises to blacks.
On the flip side, GM refused to allow blacks, Jews or Italians to enter Cadillac dealerships prior to The Great Depression. If your name was Mo Ginsburg, Cedric Lincoln Washington, or Vinny Costello, the only way you could purchase a Caddy was through a private sale. The reasoning at GM HQ was the Cadillac was a quality car for quality people, selling Caddies to “undesirables” would cheapen the brand. GM only reversed course during the Depression because their WASP customers were afraid to flaunt their wealth and shied away from conspicuous displays.
BTW, the only Cadillacs that appeal to black people around these parts are Escalades. Otherwise, black folks tend to prefer German and Japanese makes — just like everybody else.
When I lived in the South, I was told “Pontiac” meant “Poor Old N[egro] Thinks It’s a Cadillac.”…
Speaking about being politically correct; I’ve never heard this said like that before…
That saying has been a image problem for Cadillac for a long time.
Minorities very disproportionately drive 2.x cars.
During the congressional hearings on bailing out the domestic auto industry, Maxine Waters was carrying on about minority owned dealers. The problem that many minority dealers face is that they are located in big metropolitan areas where the glut of dealers really hurts the domestics.
Ford is cutting a higher percentage of major metro area dealers than their small town stores, which are a strategic advantage for the domestics. Toyota has 1500 stores. If you live in a town with less than 100,000 people and you want to check out a Toyota dealer you’ll have to take a long drive.
Its like Mel Farr super-star all over again. If you arent from Detroit, you can ignore this….
One more bleating constituency/interest group that will have to be satisfied. And Maxine Waters is involved. The potential political train wreck and tragicomic entertainment value should be quite high.
On the other hand, if the Obama administration can navigate the Dems’ circular-firing-squad politics on this issue, they deserve a 2nd term.
Pontiac acronym is a true story!
FORD: Found on road dead
FORD: Found On Rubbish Dump
FIAT: Fix It Again Tony
BMW: Bust My Wallet
SAAB: Swedish Automobiles Always Breakdown
HYUNDAI: Here’s Y U Never Drive An Import
HOLDEN: Holes, Oil Leaks, Dents, Engine Noises
KIA: Kick It Again
CHEVROLET: Can Hear Every Valve Rap On Long Extended Trips
TOYOTA: The One You Ought To Avoid
VW: Virtually Worthless
AUDI: Another Useless Deutsche Invention
GMC: Got Mechanic Coming
Ford actually has/had a very extensive minority owned dealership program. There was some news on this awhile back where someone played the race card in protest of some cost cutting move by Ford that would affect many dealers.
Again, the economically retarded are short-shifted, ignored, trampled underfoot.
Our numbers are legion but we are the ones responsible for many societal alterations throughout human history.
“Suppose they had a war and nobody came,” was the saying from the Vietnam era among the peaceniks.
Well, suppose they had a revolution and millions of the working-poor showed up with sharp pointy things and a willingness to use them?
So far, the elite class has divided the growing underclass via various forms of strife and friction.
Racial and religious differences. Ethnic and cultural differences.
It is not for NO reason the elites looked away as MILLIONS of illegal invaders pranced across our borders to directly compete for ever-scarcer resources with the USA’s working-poor underclass.
Divide and conquer!!!!!
Oh my! Could it be? Despite decades of denial by the elite class and its minions, lackeys, neer-do-wells and assorted recipients of the elites’ largess that there is no class war within the USA and with the most inane of those shills having the nerve to actually proclaim there are not even any classes within the USA to begin with I believe the recent economic woes are adding ample proof of the ongoing class war within the USA.
Just wait for minority unemployment to approach actual Great Depression levels with non-minority levels close behind.
Katy, bar the door may be utterance by the “special ones” who have trampled so many decent Americans underfoot in an economic manner.
Oh, wait… minorities. What IS a minority nowadays. Part of the elites “divide and conquer” program, part of which was encompassed by the Ted Kennedy-initiated 1965 immigration statutes alterations has resulted in many parts of the USA missing any majority of humans using whatever basis used to ascertain what a minority is.
Those areas may be prone to anarchy first.
Interesting times ahead if economic conditions worsen and more Americans are forced to embrace a 2nd-world life-style.
I agree with eh_political. This discussion doesn’t seem reasonable given the current circumstances.
These companies are fighting for their very survival. And when the politically powerful UAW is involved, all other considerations go out the window. Heck, in the last six months how many tens of billions has the US tax payer thrown into the black hole of Detroit? And we’re supposed to do something more to preserve minority owned dealerships!? I ask how.
If there are no auto manufacturers making cars and no consumers buying them how are there supposed to be dealerships — minority owned or not — to sell them?
There is no reason for GM to reduce the number of dealers. Most GM dealers are surviving because they a) have another brand such as Hyundai or b) they survive based on their used car sales. GM should not be closing dealers. Let the market sort out which of them survive. GM management would do a much poorer selection than the market will, as to which should die, and which should live.
I’ve never heard “Pontiac” meant “Poor Old N[egro] Thinks It’s a Cadillac.” However, there are clear patterns of car ownership vs. race here in North Texas. African Americans tend to drive whatever brands offer low money down financing. Domestic plus Mitsubishi, Kia, etc. Asian Americans almost always buy Toyota, Honda, and to a lesser extent Nissan. Mexicans seem to prefer very used GM vehicles. Whites who are wealthy or at least want to project that image gravitate toward BMW and Mercedes. Whites paid by the hour seem to prefer domestics, especially light trucks, while college educated whites tend toward the Asian pattern of Toyota, Honda, and Nissan with domestic trucks and european cars thrown in for variety.
I’m in the deep south in a red state and have heard the Pontiac acronym, as well as many of the others listed. No one says it much anymore.
As for ownership patterns, it’s hard for me to spot them. Yes, you have farmers, hunters and sportsman who understandably like 4WD trucks, along with construction contractors. But I think the same is true up north or out west.
I (a white chick) drive a Honda and know many people of different ethnic persuasions who also do. Our white realtor drives a Caddy SUV. A Hispanic friend and coworker drives a Honda, and her son drives a Nissan. An African-American friend drives a Nissan also. So I’m not seeing any great patterns except maybe out of need.
Guys (and some girls) here do like big trucks, but many of them end up with minivans and/or SUVs after having kids, but again that’s not written in stone.
Funnily enough, in London they say that BMW stands for “black man’s wheels”.
I don’t find humour in racism,no matter what the context.Thats just me.
Toyota=take out your old tools again.Now that I find humourous.
I guess the question really is…..is there any one here who is of the majority (white) who doesn’t believe there was some type of racial discrimination amongst the American dealership distribution at least in our lifetimes (ie-we need more money, let’s give a dealership to those people over there (of course they’ll pay more for financing, cars, parts, etc). It’s the American way, after all.
What about my personal favorite:
FORD: F***er Only Runs Downhill
BDB: I’m honestly surprised they still use “retarded” as a medical term!
For what it’s worth, “idiot” and “moron” were once official terms used to describe an individual’s mental capacity.
Most drivers know the exact definitions for Idiot and Moron. They have distinct meanings in traffic. I can’t claim credit for this material by the way.
An idiot is someone who want’s to drive slower than you do.
As onesuch is encountered you will hear :
“Look at this idiot !”
“What’s this idiot think he’s doing ?”
On the other hand a moron is someone who wants to drive faster than you do.
As onesuch begins to pass you will hear :
“Do you see this moron ?”
“Look he actually thinks he can pass me here.”
“Can you believe it ? He just passed me ! What a moron !”
Apparently the only trouble with those Model-T tractor converstions was that they ran hot so they needed extra rad cores. I have no idea how that was arranged way back then, but if you could get the kit, I guess you could get a thicker rad.
BTW My local GM dealer hasn’t advertised in the paper for weeks, and the back lot has been emptied.
For what it’s worth, “idiot” and “moron” were once official terms used to describe an individual’s mental capacity.
As I understand it, moron was introduced as a kinder, gentler term for use in diagnosis in the early part of the 20th century, and subsequently discarded in favour of “retarded” when it picked up stigma.
It’s a interesting thing, the language of victimization. Groups all over the world have will abandon terms in favour of new ones in a search to escape victimhood, only the resent the new label as it picks up the same negative connotations. It’s a testament to a group’s ability to rise above victimhood when they can get past this. We’re seeing the homosexual community do just that, while african- and native-americans have struggled somewhat more. I know if the mentally handicapped will ever really be able to do so.
Well, as a Detroit expatriate and a (NOT) 3rd-gen autoworker, nothing would surprise me in terms of racism. (Statistically and experientially the most segregated region in the US since…well… 1900 or so). Henry Ford did, indeed, hire black workers with some wage parity, but ask the old-timers that are still around…to get that wage, you had to work in The Foundry and other very dangerous jobs. My uncles, almost all Ford guys, (racists and anti-Semites as well), knew that much. Besides, the only thing Ford hated – REALLY hated – was the unions. Hiring blacks – of whom the unions were not especially fond, either – was one of the many ways he tried to thwart unionization. Plus, Dearborn was as WHITE as the Coppertone Girl’s bottom throughout my Detroit youth; Ford’s black workers couldn’t live in DEARBORN! They got to live in their own little town to the west: INKSTER! Get it? INK-ster? (As in black?) Boy, that must have been a real knee-slapper back in the day. And when Dearborn refused to annex Dearborn Township in the 1950’s? It was in 2 parts, North and South, so they had to cede a 1-mile wide by 3-mile long swath to connect the two to comply with MI law to create Dearborn “Heights” – much of which is actually lower – and that strip divides Dearborn from Inkster.
Growing up in Detroit, we all knew EXACTLY where the color line was. (Blockbusting was written into the Detroit Board of Realtors Code of Ethics in 1920. It was “unethical” to “bust” a block (sell to a non-white) without first informing your fellow realtors, so everyone could get a piece of the sales generated by the 10-year turnover from all-white to all-black – the period of time that we refrred to as “integration”). And the ’67 riots only accelerated the process of “white flight” that was already well underway by 1960. (Interestingly, Dearborn/SW Detroit/Dearborn Heights is now home to the largest Middle Eastern Community in the USA). Now the city that was nearly 2 million in 1955 is less than 900,000. The City of Detroit has lost more people than have ever lived in most cities. I knew I had to get out since I was about 12; most of us did, except those who still believed in the myth of our “birthright” of a Job For Life. It was just a Company Town (yeah, there were 3 of ’em, but take your pick, it didn’t matter) on steroids. And we told the same acronym-jokes about every brand and model; (mostly not racist, though – I never heard the Pontiac one before). By the mid-1970’s EVERYONE knew we were not making the best cars that we could. My Dad had an auto parts business – domestic only; I worked there in my youth and we knew which years and models were junk…as time went on, the Lemon List just grew! But Management and Labor were too busy either colluding or blaming each other to ask why this was so. We did, however, know that GM was the worst of the bunch, and Ford the best of a bad lot, and Chrysler? Well, without the Army Tank contract, the Original Bailout, and the mini-van, it just would have gone the way of Packard.
Just an aside – I’ll never forget – I was a caddy at Dearborn Country Club (the Ford Middle-Management Club) around 1973, and the Caddy Master, Brad, a college student, bought one of the first Honda Civics. It was s**t brown, and we gave him constant grief whenever he pulled up. He just smiled and said, prophetically, “This is the future, you stupid little f**kers, get used to it!”. By 1975, he had proven himself correct. I often thought of him when I drove an ’89 Civic that was still the best car I’ve ever owned; I would still have it if not for the accident that I should not, by rights, have survived, but miraculously did, thank God and Honda. And it had almost 200K on it then; my friend Bob still has a ’92 Civic with 500K+ on it.
Anyways, don’t know the facts and figures on dealerships and race; but I do know, having lived a lot of other places since, that issues of race are everywhere, but particularly close to the surface in Detroit. Can nefarious, intentional causality be proven? I doubt it. Race-consciousness was just the air we breathed in the Motor City; you just don’t realize how unhealthy it is until you leave, and are reminded whenever you come back to visit. Perhaps this is not unique to Detroit, but considering that Detroit is a necessary precondition for the unsustainable mess that has become of our country through heavily subsidized excessive auto-worship – even Henry himself thought commuting by car absurd – my hometown can certainly claim some credit.
Best wishes to all on this great site! Marquis Dee