Our own Ken Elias (who predicts a May 29 filing for The General) is torn between two motors, feeling like a fool. Loving a BMW is breaking all his rules. The man puts about 12k on the odo per year, and claims he only drives fast on rare occasions [when it is safe to do so or Jack Baruth is in the car]. Obviously, Ken should have read one of our TWO BMW vs. Infiniti comparos, but didn’t. So here we go again. Which car do you think our TTAC vet should lease? Feel free to grill him for more info.
OK, GMAC won’t play ball on extending the lease on my Saab or offer me a price closer to wholesale. In fact, they’ll only extend one month or up to 90 days IF I have a new GM car on order. So I’m looking at a BMW 328i Coupe w/ manual or an Infiniti G37 Journey w/ Sport Pkg. The Infiniti is likely to a bit cheaper to lease by ~$100/month, but it’s an automatic and drinks more gas. I think Bimmer owners are [adjective redacted], but it’s a pretty good ride. Both cars are fun to drive, but I want to give up anything for the pleasure. Advice?
If you’re not able to write if off for a business, then IMO, leases are probably not a good deal.
Saab to BMW or Infiniti?
That’s like going from being a fan of Everton to being a fan of Manchester United or Arsenal.
Don’t lease. BUY something cheaper.
Leases are awful, you are paying all the depreciation with none of the benefit.
If you want something fast etc, why not a 2-3 year old used car, that some previous leasor has paid the depreciation on.
Leases can be a better deal than buying, IF you’re planning on buying the car ultimately. Otherwise you’re better off buying something you want to live with.
I attended a BMW autocross event several years ago. The featured cars were: the 3 series, the Audi 4, and the Infiniti G35. I’m a big BMW fan, but it was most instructive to drive the three back-to-back. The Infiniti was horrid by comparison to the other two. Not only was the handling far worse, but the ABS was intrusive, and the car didn’t have good feel. This was at the time that the G35 was supposedly beating the 3 in magazine comparisons.
Get the BMW. I leased my 330xi, and then bought it out of the lease. Every time I get in the car it’s a joy. It’s more expensive, for sure, but it makes me happy every time I get in it.
Leases can be a better deal than buying, IF you’re planning on buying the car ultimately.
How does that work?
No bad choices there. I would love a 3 series wagon.
Look let’s not debate the whole lease vs buy thing. I agree with our questioner that BMW drivers are NSFWers just like a post earlier today confirmed many of our opinions about Porsche owners. What would the lease rate be on a fully loaded Nissan 370Z? It’s ALMOST the same car as the Infinity but should likely retail cheaper and I’ll be it will be easier to find one with a manual transmission.
I agree with the comments above.
The car choice itself really depends on what you’re doing. Having driven both, I’d say the Infiniti is more comfortable and better for commuting. It just happens to have a metric ton of power (and excellent brakes). For the driving enthusiast, though, there’s no comparison — BMW all the way. Better feel, better grip, better control.
If I had a choice, I’d go with the 335i. The downsides with respect to the G are worth the sheer joy of driving that car.
As far as cost goes, Infiniti’s a better deal. You get more kit as standard (or in their sport package, which incidentally doesn’t actually change the drivetrain or suspension), whereas the BMW’s options are pricey. I think the Infiniti is more reliable, and I’m certain it’d be cheaper to maintain.
Since I’m guessing most TTAC readers don’t understand the benefits of leasing, I’ll say go for the lease and ignore their “BUY USED!” mantra.
G37. The Bimmer is not a good car. It is not as fun to drive, not as reliable, and frankly, has an awkward interior.
Personally, I wouldn’t accept an automatic transmission in a car where I was looking for fun/performance. From the submission, it sounds like you’d also prefer the manual, so definitely go with your preference on that one and don’t compromise.
There are a lot of things you can change/upgrade on a car after you buy it, but you’ll be stuck with that slushbox for as long as you own the car.
I assume you’ve driven both? And you’re still torn? The BMW is far better in every way IMHO…well except that price you mentioned.
I have never been impressed with the infiniti coupes. The sedans are closer to me, but the G coupes have always ridden god awful, with their huge rims and stiff suspension. At least on the manual cars.
Nearly 2 months back, I decided to get a 2003 G35 coupe. I’ve certainly been more than impressed by it, as I think of it in one of two ways:
1. A four-seater Nissan 350Z or
2. US version of the Skyline 350GT
With that in mind, I say the G37 Coupe 6MT. I can’t wait to get one new in a few years and turn my current one into a project car.
Otherwise, used ones are a great deal. I got mine for less than $17k, 34k on the odo, leather and Bose audio and nearly flawless condition.
The only downside was the 5AT (which will limit what I can do with it), but otherwise it’s everything I wanted. Been thinking about submitting a capsule review of it, if anyone’s interested?
Easy, used E46 M3.
Aside from looking a bit odd, what about a 1-series? A 128i should undercut the G by some degree (unless the 3’s lease deals are much sweeter) as far as price goes and provide the same kind of handling as a 328i.
guyincognito :
May 11th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Easy, used E46 M3.
Or CPO 335i.
@guyincognito : Anything gained buying used will be lost repairing it.
@Areitu: Been in a 1 series? Makes the Genesis coupe feel like a Bentley.
It depends on what’s important to you. The Infiniti drinks more gas cause it has a bunch more HP.
For my money, the Infiniti wins hands down.
mikeolan :
May 11th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
@Areitu: Been in a 1 series? Makes the Genesis coupe feel like a Bentley.
Yes, I have…I got that vibe too. I haven’t driven one but I’m hoping that’s enough to overlook the uhh…interesting interior materials choice.
Don’t lease, find a used ‘06 330i with a sports package, then buy the extended ultimate service contract which pays for maintenance through the 100,000 mile mark. The power difference makes the 328i feel slow. The BMW is the only car on the market that is truly bipolar. It can be driven dossal and silky smooth when directed. Or with a mere down shift, slap into sport mode or trip above 2700 rpm becomes a fire breathing psychopath. I’ve driven my brothers G35 and it simply lacks civility. The G35 also lacks the responsiveness to point the steering wheel, mash the gas and go exactly where you want to go. BMW drivers are snobs about their cars for a reason!!!
I’ve owned both an E46 series BMW 325 and the last generation Infiniti G35. My wife currently owns the new generation G35.
If I was buying the car – it would definitely be a G35. The car has a lower cost of ownership (even including the free BMW maintenance), is far more reliable and a great drive.
We love the features of the G35 features on the Journey with a Premium Pack – Bluetooth, iPod Integration, Upgraded stereo, sunroof – which are all very useful for commuting.
I’ve driven the new 328 and it handles slightly better than the G, but doesn’t offset the other ownership issues (e.g., reliability and high maintenance costs).
I just turned an ’09 328 coupe back after having it for a week while my MINI was at the dealer for warranty service. The 328 was a rare 6spd manual loaner. To say that I was pleased to get a manual tranny in a loaner would be an understatement.
Overall, I was quite impressed with the car. I took it through one of my favorite driving roads, and it did admirably for a stock car. Quite entertaining actually. The mileage was good— I regularly saw over 30mpg on the highway. The power was in line with my expectation. Plenty of room inside, ergos were good, trunk space was voluminous.
Cons: The shifter felt like I was rowing a fork through a plate of spaghetti. The clutch pedal action was very light and completely devoid of any feel or sensitivity. An aftermarket short-shift kit would likely fix the shifter, but the clutch most probably is what it is.
Would I spend the $40k to buy one new? No. But then I don’t usually buy new cars. However, as a two or three year old lease return at around $22-25k it would be a great buy.
Well, Ken, since I feel the same way about coupes as you do about BMW drivers, I’d say go with the 328i sedan.
As an e90 330i owner, I say you can’t go wrong with a Bimmmer. Despite being stereotyped as a prick, the 3 is simply unbeatable in terms of steering feel and being a drivers car. You can pick up a 330i sport package and manual for around 25, or a 335i in the high 20s to mid 30s. Just watch out for fuel pump issues on the 335s, but that won’t be a problem for you.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-OWNER-6sp-WARRANTY-CARFAX-CERTIFIED-COUPE_W0QQitemZ350199006099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item51897cc393&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A7|39%3A1|240%3A1318
BMW is also offering pretty aggressive leasing deals right now, so that may be worth something to you if your continuing to lease.
I think a lot of folks gave good things to look out for and reminders of good reasons to choose either car. Its a personal choice though. I’d drive both and pick which ever gone I believe would give me the most happiness all things considered. Perhaps I’d be wrong, but I’d still enjoy the car to the fullest.
That being said, I have a hard time picturing an Auto being as fun as a Manual. Although Autos can be good in comfort too. Both great cars, no can’t go wrong, imo.
I had a used (off-lease) G35 6MT for about three years. It was a real hoot, was utterly reliable and it didn’t break the bank.
Since I’m guessing most TTAC readers don’t understand the benefits of leasing
You’re wrong.
There is one major benefit of leasing, and one minor one.
The major one is that if its a business vehicle, you can deduct far more of the lease cost than the vehicle depreciation.
The minor one is if you are one of those types who want a NEW car every 3 years, it is less hastle and less cash-flow required than trading in, but not less cost effective: if the lease is priced right, it costs you more than if you bought the car and sold it private party. Its just in the meantime your out-of-pocket per month is lower, its just when you bought the car you heck, paid for the car not just the depreciation.
So unless you feel the compulsive need to get a new car, or you can write off a 3-series as a business expense (how audit-proof are you anyway?), leases are a very bad deal vs buying.
In this auto market, the benefit of leasing is very simple- the resale value and (perhaps more importantly, as any recent SAAB owner might attest) a buyer is guaranteed the day you sign the contract. Precipitous depreciation? not my problem. Walked away from my ’06 5 series wagon at 36 months- residual was 10k more than market retail.
A good factory subsidized lease on a fairly flashy/specialty car makes a ton of sense in an erratic market, especially in these tech heavy cars. Loading a large amount of cash into the purchase of a car/depreciating asset now, in the face of uncertainty is not very appealing to me. As long as gap coverage is provided by the manufacturer, there is little to lose and lots of fun to be had.
Personally I went for a subaru legacy gt type of car, whose purchase payments were similar to the leases on these cars, and find it a kick to drive (and its faster than an S4- who knew?). But this is after 10 years of headache free leasing of several fun cars, never worrying about maintenance, resale, residuals, etc.
As a former BMW mechanic, I always give the same advice.
Unless you do your own repairs, do not own a BMW that is not under warranty.
It’s much less painful to have BMW pay the dealer to figure out the electronic gremlins.
So it’s between a manual 328i and G37 Coupe (Journey/Sport package = loaded).
I say go with G37 (never thought I’d say that). The BMW is perhaps just a smidge more fun to drive, but you get most of that performance, plus more ammenities and equipment at a lower price with the Infiniti. Besides, from the reviews I’ve read, the 7 speed auto in the G is actually a much better choice than the manual.
Another BMW vote. BMW owners are considered a-holes because the car is so good you can drive it 15% faster than the pack without trying. Trying, you can drive it 25% faster. If you give in to this, you pass folks who all think “rich moron, speed limits don’t apply to you”
So, drive nice.
BMW charges you 5-10k for the privilege of BMW-ness. If you are leasing, then cost of maintenance is not relevant, assuming you give it back. Expect to buy tires-and runflats are not cheap.
I’d go for the 335 all the way. yes, the Infiniti has more space in back, is slightly cheaper with all gadgetry, but if you enjoy pushing the car around corners, and the actual driving dynamic, the BMW sings.
After nearly 200k in a 03 330i, I agree with the ad campaign…all cars are new once, but a BMW is a BMW for life. Every day I get in and smile.
335i with Manual…do it !
Get the BMW! I purchased my 2004 325 vert. CPO 2 years ago and have not regreted it for one minute. I could have bought an M3 or a 330, but at this point in my life I do not feel like getting arrested for speeding every week. Auto or manual?, depends on where you live. Manual is more fun of course, unless you are caught in a 30 mile traffic jam. Then you will curse the day you were born. Look at it this way. Buying a BMW is like dating the prettiest girl in high school. Is it high maintenance? yes. Will it give you problems? occasionally. Will you have to spend cash on it? absolutely. Will you smile every night before you go to bed knowing you have been in it?;)definitely!!
I think the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of the G37.
The whole lease vs. buy debate is an old hat. Do the math, figure out what is better for you.
I am not a huge bmw fan at all, and I loved the G35 I drove before…
but only having an auto option in the above listed choices kills the G37 option.
Gotta have stick.
Go with the BMW.
How about none of the above. I’ve got two words for Ya, Ken:
G8 GXP
’nuff said ………
Leases can be the best deal if you get a competitive interest rate and a high guaranteed residual value. Ignore everyone else’s biases, and just run the numbers both ways.
As for which car to choose, either one would be a blast to drive. But while the G37 might be harder on gas, the Bimmer is likely to be harder on everything else. I would stick with the G if operating costs are an issue. (I would also consider a Genesis Coupe 3.8 in this comparison, although you didn’t ask about that one.)
I faced the same decision in 2004. Since I was purchasing the car for the long haul, reliability was important to me (wife’s car). I went with a G35x and it’s been great so far, 5 years later.
BMW no question…but only because the G comes with an auto. Otherwise I’d go Japanese on cost grounds.
I see this in simple terms: the BMW is the better car, but the Infiniti is a better bargain. My problem with the 2008 G35 Sport MT was its crude, rough engine note and slightly balky shifter. To me, it felt like a four door muscle car. It was a blast to drive, with fantastic grip and overall dynamics, but I’d want something a little smoother for daily transportation, and even a MazdaSpeed 3 is much smoother than the G35 I drove. That’s why, in one of Car & Driver’s comparos, they said that while the BMW 328i gave up about 70 horses to the Infiniti, it didn’t feel like it.
Now, I’ve read that the automatic in the Infiniti largely addresses the refinement issue. So if you’re willing to tolerate an automatic, the calculus probably changes.
But I’d get the BMW with a stick.
I would pick the BMW as I am no fan of the G37. It may have less power but ultimately is a much better car.
If you lease a car, you are paying someone else to own it for that time period, plus a profit. How can that be a good deal for you?
I’ve owned a half-dozen 6, 3 and 5 series BMWs and driven all of the Infiniti G-series cars. To me, the G feels like a wannabe sport/luxury sedan with a truck engine (well, it is used in most Nissan trucks).
I’m currently driving a 1998 328i sedan manual.
All my BMW’s have been rock-solid only requiring scheduled maintenance.
I’d get a 2006+ 330 sedan, RWD, 6-speed manual, sport pack, premium pack and cold weather pack.
Cars are like shoes — get what fits you best. Buy vs. lease is whatever makes the most sense to you or your company’s accountant.
Twotone
I would say, IF you were buying one, G37. But since you’re leasing….G37. I can hardly stand BMW owners. I’ve only met one that wasn’t offensive. It must be the area I live in.
To all the people confused about the benefits of leasing –
Essentially, you get to write off the lease payment from taxes if used for business expenses.
If you’re smart and roll your sales tax into the amount financed for the lease, you also get to write sales tax off from income tax. FUCK YOU GOVERNMENT!
The reason this is there is to encourage people to keep getting new cars, and because paying the depreciation is an actual business expense – and that’s all you pay in the lease – depreciation.
As for THIS specific car vs. car.
Don’t get an automatic 328. That’s the car you’d get a housewife or someone with a heart problem.
fincar1 :
May 12th, 2009 at 10:43 am
If you lease a car, you are paying someone else to own it for that time period, plus a profit. How can that be a good deal for you?
Not really. In many cases the residual value they use to calculate the lease is too high – so the payment is based on your car being worth say 25k in 3 years when in reality BMW or Volvo or SAAB is only going to get 18k for it.
Why would they do they you ask? Well, they need to sell cars now, they will deal with the low residuals later when hopefully the economy has recovered.
This happend to Nissan back in the 90’s they had cheap leases and sold a ton of cars and that kept them alive – they had to write off billions in losses 3 years later but by that time they were profitable again and could absord those lossses.
Again, as don167 said, run the numbers. If BMW needs to move the metal and is offering a great subsidized lease – it could be the cheapest option.
Another point – from a marketing perspective automakers prefer subsidizes leases to discounts as big discounts cheapen the brand.
When you take into consideration BMW free maintenance, $100/month difference becomes much more reasonable.
As a SAAB driver you will surely appreciate any European car for its unique “European” feel. Especially one as good as BMW 3er.
I’m in the EXACT same situation. Except I’m looking to purchase a used one 2008 or newer. I have not test driving a 328i Coupe yet. I would prefer the automatic likely… I have a manual now and it’s not the best gearbox (go figure, a Volvo with a stick) I know BMWs manual is vastly superior but I’m not sure if I’d like to do it myself anymore…it’s not a turbo or anything so no real benefit to controlling revs when you have a nice 6 speed auto with logic and paddle shifts (on sports packaged BMW) I know it’s more involving and driver oriented with a manual…I’d have to drive one and see.
Now on to the G37. I test drove one. On paper it looked to the car of my dreams. 330hp, rwd, nice stereo with harddrive.. good looking and cheap! DISAPPOINTMENT. It was noisy and rough riding (not just sporty rough, but unrefined suspension), the engine seemed powerful but didn’t blow me away… didn’t truely feel like 330hp. Interior felt ok, leather wasn’t supple or soft, trim didn’t seem upscale…Nav and stereo was good though! All this was slightly mitigatable due to lower price… BUT the transmission was my number one negative, JERKY, holding revs for no reason in every gear at any throttle input. At a slow roll into a parking lot there is no reason for first gear to shift into 2nd at over 3,000 rpm. I kept looking down, like…is this in manual shift mode… no. And then if you give it gas it will tach up and as you let off it will hold the gear for a good 2-3 second count on a neutral rev. This may be fine if you were on the track (it should have sport and comfort or something, or just better LOGIC)…but after passing a car it’s just annoying, fuel SUCKING, and unrefined some more. Supposedly they have quelled this issue some with the 7 speed auto. The whole car just wasn’t impressive for over 25k used.
Time to test drive a BMW.