Once again, TTAC has received an embargoed press release. Once again, please don’t send us anything you don’t want us to publish before you want us to publish it unless we agree beforehand (which we won’t). An agreement requires two parties. And party they might down at your local Buick dealer’s service department. A Consumer Reports (CR) survey of 349k vehicles (full methodology unavailable upon request) reveals that, “Among the top scoring in dealership maintenance satisfaction were Lexus, Buick, and Acura, with 85, 83 and 82 percent satisfaction rates, respectively. At the other end of the spectrum, Volkswagen, Suzuki, Jeep, and Nissan owners were far less satisfied with dealer service at 67, 69, 70, and 70 percent respectively.” But wait! There’s more! “Despite the turmoil surrounding the American auto industry, six American automakers (Buick, Saturn, Mercury, Cadillac, Lincoln and Oldsmobile) ranked among the top ten in terms of customer satisfaction with dealership maintenance.” Pay no attention to the word “Oldsmobile.” Notice the word maintenance. Not repair.
That’s MIA. Well not exactly. Seems CR grasped that nettle—but only in a showdown between independent and franchised service departments.
Among owners whose cars needed repairs as well as maintenance, the difference in satisfaction with dealers and independent shops was even more pronounced: 75 percent were very satisfied with independents versus just 57 percent with dealerships.
Hang on; cars that needed repairs AS WELL AS maintenance? Call me a Kareshian pedant, but I reckon you’d need two totally different surveys to accurately gauge customer satisfaction with each service.
To wit: if you start off asking a customer about a service department’s maintenance abilities, you alert them to the fact that (for all they know) the service department’s doing a good job. Then, when you switch to repairs, they might be less willing to kvetch.
In any case, the best repairs are those you don’t have to do. TrueDelta (no longer financially affiliated with TTAC) has the actual repair rates for specific vehicles. Other than that, caveat emptor in extremis.
FYI, the issue of CR that has this article was mailed out a few days ago.
Looks like Buick’s ‘while-u-wait’ strategy of free decaf coffee and 20% off the Early Bird Special at Shoney’s is finally paying off…
Ok, so CR did a Maintenance and a Repair survey. Wake me after they do the all-imporant WARRANTY WORK survey.
There’s probably some interesting information to be gleaned here.
Here are the questions I’d raise:
1. There are many different groups of dealership customers. I can think of two big variables off the top of my head: warranty vs. non-warranty, and people who get all service at the dealer vs. only work that must be performed there.
2. The customer is probably much more likely to blame the dealer for the car’s shortcomings than they are to blame the shop. This alone could explain the difference in satisfaction.
How about customer satisfaction with trade in allowances and resale values?
This survey means little to me. I do all my own maintenance, so going to any dealer is out of the question. For repairs beyond my ability or desire to tackle myself, the local indie shop I’ve been patronizing for almost 17 years gets my business. Only for warranty repairs (close to zero for my current cars) will I darken the dealer’s door.
They’re just confusing the issue. Even if brand x dealer is best my specific dealer for brand x might be a scumbag or staffed by incompetents.
Only for warranty repairs (close to zero for my current cars) will I darken the dealer’s door.
You’re preaching to the choir, brother!….:)
The dealer is only interested in how many cars they can get in and out the door – to them, maintenance seems like an afterthought.
That’s the advice I give to some of my mechanically-challenged car owner friends – take it to the dealer ONLY for warranty issues – take it to a reputable private mechanic for everything else…
I agree, some dealers that do just small things like Oil changes and Cabin Air units screw them up as the Techs are in a Hurry to get the job done “Fast”.
For me taking my RAV4 in for my annual 16,000 kms check the dealer Techs screwed it up, so much so I could not close the door on the Glove compartment because in there rush, the Cabin Air unit lid fell off and blocked the hinge of the Glove Box, I had to take it to my local independent Garage to have it put right, I have bad hands so I can’t do the work myself, in the end I wont be returning to the Dealer unless I have a Warranty related item!
It doesn’t surprise me that Buick dealers are so highly rate by their customers. I used to work in the service dept of a Buick dealer, and most owners were laid-back retired folk who had no problem waiting a few hours for the work to be completed. On the other end of the spectrum were Nissan owners, who always seemed to be unreasonable and angry. It didn’t help that at the time, Nissan was bad about using every trick in the book to weasel out of warranty work, so it was understandable they were so upset.
There are too many things to skew a survey like this. For example, a customer’s mood, how much they have to spend, etc. Besides, saying you’re going to have a good service experience at any Buick dealer or independent shop is like saying you’re going to have a good experience at any Chili’s or hole-in-the-wall diner. They’re all run differently by different people, so of course the experiences will vary. This seems like a B/S survey just for the sake of having a survey.
Wake me after they do the all-imporant WARRANTY WORK survey.
Ya, and wake me after CR does any survey that has any basis in scientific sampling methods… I have yet to see a CR survey that made any sense…
You will have two cars that share the same platform. Share the same engines, same transmissions, built in the same plant, by the same workers, same everything… And one will be a “best buy” and the other will be “not recommended”.. And all of the CR kool aid drinkers Go… “Yup must be true…CR would never lie”
When I was still driving my large GMC Rally Stx Van, I used to frequent the Local GMC-Buick dealer as he was recommended to me by a friend, so I did all my service there on my truck, one day after I got a Oil change and was back home, I got a phone call from the Tech who had done the Oil Change, he wanted to come out to home,about 10 Kms from the Buick dealer location to check something, so after work he appeared here and said he wanted to make sure that he had screwed to Oil Plug back in the block, he told me that he was forced to do Oil changes in the shortest time possible and sometimes he forgets! lol If all GMC dealers act like this, God help us all!
You will have two cars that share the same platform. Share the same engines, same transmissions, built in the same plant, by the same workers, same everything… And one will be a “best buy” and the other will be “not recommended”.. And all of the CR kool aid drinkers Go… “Yup must be true…CR would never lie”
When has that ever happened? Seriously, when? I’ve heard people say that CR does this, but in the time I’ve been a subscriber I’ve never, ever seen them rate any pair of corporate twins that way, except when there’s a very critical difference (eg, plant of origin, as was the case with the Matrix and Vibe).
Citation needed.
CR is very useful and credible. Their repair records and my real life observations have been very accurate in over nearly thirty years.
Some things they say are questionable or laughable, from my viewpoint and priorities. As with any situation in life, consider the source.
psarhjinian:
Agreed. The only other case I can remember (and it’s salient because it hit home) was with the Chevy Nova (which my folks bought) and Corolla twins…Both were recommended (granted, their system of recommendation was a little different then) as ’85s and ’86s.
With problems showing up in ’86,’87, and ’88 Novas (head gasket failures, of which our powder blue version suffered two before 55k miles, and problems with the 3-speed auto, again, twice seen by 65k miles), the supposed “corporate twins” (built in Cali by NUMMI) became converse recommendations of each other: the Corolla was recommended: the Nova, no longer.
Seems to me that some folks believe that changing recommendations – based on adaptation to new circumstances – is negative, and a sign of discontinuity. When CR has changed, I’ve oft seen it as a sign of flexibility because, at least in my case, they’ve been right.
Citation needed.
Dodge Neon/PT Cruiser
Generally speaking, I don’t think I had any issues with routine maintenance on my Buick. But after it was in the shop for so many out of warranty, non-maintenance issues, I couldn’t get rid of the car fast enough.
This survey means about as much as the JD Powers initial quality surveys, based on my experience.
Dodge Neon/PT Cruiser
That’s your best example? I was expecting at least Nova/Corolla (different factory) or Impala/Grand Prix (different factory, again).
The Neon and PT differ signficantly in structure (the rear suspension was completely dissimilar). The Neon was also assembled at a—wait for it—different factory, and was an earlier iteration of the same platform. They didn’t share the same engine, and only shared one transmission (the four-speed auto).
The PT Cruiser was built in Toluca, Mexico
The Neon was built in Toluca, Mexico
I was unaware that there are two factories in Toluca, Mexico… But thanks for the two more examples… You can also add the HHR and the Cobalt..
To be fair though, CR is starting to learn its lesson… in the past, recommendations were not based on real world testing, but were often based on past performance of a make or a brand… This came home to roost at CR with the notorious recommendations for that Maytag Neptune Washing Machines and the Maytag Refrigerators. Both of which quickly proved to be lemons and ultimately killed Maytag.
You have to remember that the editors at CR are people, just like everywhere else and people have biases and opinions… And these biases and opinions make their way into the magazine whether they have basis in facts or not.
At the other end of the spectrum, Volkswagen, Suzuki, Jeep, and Nissan owners were far less satisfied with dealer service…
As everyone points out, it’s hard to know what is going on with the survey unless we know what the survey is actually reporting. I’m at a loss to know how “maintenance” could go wrong. After all, maintenance is pretty routine, and these days is, for the most part, an oil change. Why is VW at the bottom, since maintenance is covered for 3 years on their new cars? It’s not like the consumer is out of pocket. There is more to this than we know…
The Neon was built in Toluca, Mexico
The Neon was also built in Illinois. And you’re still ignoring the “different engine, different transmission, different suspension and highly modified platform” thing.
You said that CR rates vehicles that are essentially identical differently, yet the PT and Neon are very different, moreso than the classical (and also inaccurate) examples used to denigrate CR: the Impala/Regal vs Grand Prix, Vibe vs Matrix and Corolla vs Nova.
I mean, come on, the cars have different engines.
recommendations were not based on real world testing, but were often based on past performance of a make or a brand
No, recommendations were only automatic if a model (not a brand) had a previously-impeccable reputation. Should that reputation be impugned, the automatic recommendation status is lost permanently.
The 4Runner and Camry both lost this automatic recommendation flag. The Fusion picked it up for the same reason. That’s not ‘bias’ in as much as it’s historical trending, especially since they state that they do this in a very up-front fashion.
previously-impeccable reputation. Should that reputation be impugned, the automatic recommendation status is lost permanently.
It is disappointing to hear that CR still gives “automatic” recommendations based on a previously impeccable reputation… As we have seen, over and over… This doesn’t work and can lead consumers into BAD decisions.
And lets be clear… The CR “recommended/best buy” 2.4L motor in the PT is just a stroked version of the 2.0L in the Neon and it suffers from ALL of the common 2.0L problems… Like its smaller 2.0 L counterpart, the 1995-99 2.4 L suffers from head gasket failures around the oil passage restricter integral to the composite cylinder head. Other common leak points are the Camshaft oil seals and the Camshaft Position Sensor O-ring. An oil leak issue with the front crankshaft seal has developed in some 2004-2007 engines due to excessive crankshaft end-play. The excessive movement of the crankshaft pushes the seal out causing a leak. That is the CR “Best Buy” recommendation… Nice work CR.
If I owned a Lexus, Acura or Buick, the service had better be ass-kissingly good considering the extra bucks I spent over a Hyundai Genesis.
The real problem in these surveys, however, is the potential for ego bias when things aren’t as rosy as they should be. Who wants to admit that they got hosed on a pretentious nameplate, especially one to which they’ve been loyal for years? People want to brag about their luxury dealer experience, and even the high cost of maintenance. By contrast, it is almost fashionable to bash garden-variety dealers.