End of Days folks, when the president of the United States puts taxpayer billions behind a “merger of equals” between Chrysler and Fiat. The latest weirdness: The Detroit News reports that “Japanese automaker Mitsubishi Motors Corp. is in talks to supply vehicles to Saturn dealers if the brand and dealer network is sold this year.” Would that be the same Mitsubishi who’s ass has been repeatedly kicked by the U.S. market, to the point where most industry analysts figured it would give up and go home? The same company that built a thousand cars in the USA so far this year? The one that sold 55 percent fewer cars last month than the same month last year (3919 vs. 8878)? The same. Or not. “A Mitsubishi spokesman said he was unaware of the company’s interest in providing vehicles to Saturn’s dealer network.” Yes, well, never mind all that. There’s another player sniffing around, and that’s where the real action is . . .
The DetN mentions them in passing: “Mitsubishi is among several manufacturers, including Nissan Motor Co., talking to parties interested in acquiring Saturn’s dealer network from General Motors Corp., sources said.”
Mark my words, Nissan/Renault is in the hunt here, GM-wise. As we’ve pointed out before, Kirk “the Lion of Las Vegas” Kerkorian tried to shotgun GM and Renault before this recent “unpleasantness.” We hear that Captain Kirk’s main man York is once again highly active behind the scenes.
Besides, the country didn’t seem to mind when Chrysler was handed to the Italians, with a huge dowry no less. So why not GM? Why not indeed.
Actually I despise the fact that Chrysler was handed over to a fourth rate company. If anything they should have given it to Nissan. Better quality and more trusted. Hell they could have just given it back to Daimler and I wouldn’t have minded so much. Fiat makes no logical sense.
There are some many great Mitsus in the world, but in America we get mediocore stuff (and Evo, but who cares about Evo except car journos?). I’m reminded about it every time I go to Australia or Japan.
Chrysler doesn’t deserve Nissan. Off to Fiat ya go.
Apparently, the Mitsubishi banking group in Japan has plenty of funds for Mitsubishi Motors. Otherwise, it would be *poof* – right out of the market. Right?
God, a Mitsu-Saturn tie-up would be great for me personally. Here in Normal, IL the Mitsu people just got back to work last week after being idle since February. MMNA desperately needs something else to build at the plant since the Eclipse/Endeavor/Galant platform aint sellin’. The COO of the plant says he’s been asked about 10,000 times by folks on the street if Mitsu will bring the lancer/outlander platform stateside.
I can imagine Saturn as a retailer of cheaper “store brand” versions of any and all new cars sold today, not just Mitsubishi. For the automakers it’s all about production capacity and doing whatever it takes to survive without damaging their brands. The automakers play Saturn’s game or lose the edge in the economies of scale game. In other words, I can see Saturn as the wholly-owned division of Wal-Mart that ultimately takes over the low end automotive world.
Or not.
I think you meant to put a picture of a Mitsubishi i-MiEV up, that’s that Chrysler Peapod thing.
Kinda makes me think of the Smart copyright controversy article from yesterday though.
Mitsubishi has decent cars, lousy dealers. Saturn has good dealers. Seems a good match plus Mitsubishi makes some cars in the US.
Mitsubishi has had quality problems that run deeper than anything Chrysler ever had. Even consider the fact that Mitsubishi’s problems became Chrysler’s problems when they built shitty cars for them. Look at the resale value of the “Diamond Star” cars compared to similar cars on the market. I wouldn’t even waste a penny on the Evo. Impressive? Yes. Reliable? Not even close.
Also… Daimler did Chrysler no favors (except the LX chassis). They forced Chrysler to cut component cost so much ($1000.00 per car) that it shows in everything the consumer sees and feels. I’m a life-long Chrysler guy and even I wouldn’t waste my money on any of their C & D class cars.
There is so much more to write about, regarding Mitsubishi and Daimler, and the highly negative impact they both imposed upon Chrysler.
Anything Fiat sends to Chrysler will be an improvement.
Does anyone else around here recall that I mentioned this possibility as being quite logical some while back?!
I’m not psychic.
I also mentioned that I thought it would be more than logical for Suzuki and Mitsubishi to merge.
This makes even more sense.
Sell all the current US market vehicles (getting rid of a few non-sellers first) at all current Mitsubishi and Suzuki dealers, AS Suzukis. Including the MiEV electric.
Add facelifted variants of certain vehicles for sale via Saturn dealers, priced in the normal Saturn pricing manner (i.e. lower than the MSRP of the equivalent Suzuki’s).
Exclusive to Suzuki would be the Nissan-supplied pickup truck, their Equator; the Evo; the MiEV electric.
Then bring in the Mitsubishi Colt (how about from CMC in Taiwan?) for sale badged as a new small Saturn, while Suzuki dealers get the upcoming and already promised Suzuki Swift.
Saturn has merit, but there needs to be someone out there willing to work with the dealer franchise, since there are no factories included with Saturn.
Yes, Mitsubishi makes a lot of sense, especially with the underutilized Normal, Illinois plant (not forgetting that the Suzuki plant in Ingersoll, Ontario would be able to go on line and start cranking out Swifts if they want it to, since the SUVs aren’t moving….)
Big advantage; Mitsubishi already has US certified vehicles capable of being sold. Another advantage; Saturn buyers are more interested in the “easy” buying experience than they are in the actual automobile! Are they not?
There have to be some viable alternatives to the biggest car companies out there which will have the brass b*lls enough to survive this greater depression, and will hugely profit afterwards. It’s not healthy to only have a small handful of large worldwide automotive players.
Nature abhorrs a vacuum. And the Chinese and Indians are not yet ready to fill the big shoes yet.
In this part of the country Mitsubishi is a dead brand walking. Hyundai and Kia have cleaned up this tier of market. Reliability issues and half-arsed dealer support make Mitsubishi a brand to stay clear of.
Saturn is going to need better than this.
Why does that thing look like a Teletubby to me. Scary looking. I really need to stop watching Barney, the Teletubby’s and Veggietales with my 1 y/o, I think it’s messing with my brain.
I really dn’t have much love for Mitsubishi, ever since they killed the great cars and trucks they used to have, those old Eclipses were fast and fun.
And I don’t buy PCH101’s theory the government is going to hand GM over to Nissan like the Chrysler fiasco. I think the government is going ot sell off the parts of GM that they don’t want or are redundent if they can find buyer, if they don’t it gets trashed. Then keep the “good” part under government control and ownership for how ever long they deem needed, maybe even forever if they become the Amtrak or recoveries. GM is just too big and handles so much of the government fleet to let a foreign company take control, at least in the protectionist governments mind.
Consumer Reports indicate that Suzuki and Mitsubishi are not amongst their worst-rated automakers, but that Chrysler takes that spot. GM is not much better, and for that matter, neither is Daimler-Benz (Mercedes).
I agree, oldandslow, that Hyundai and Kia are doing very well.
In other news, Beijing Motors (which coincidentally has a Hyundai joint venture partnership in China) apparently was “whoops, too late” in expressing interest in obtaining OPEL.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6d918216-46ba-11de-923e-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss
Obviously, if Magna get Opel (+ Vauxhall) and succeed in obtaining the Saturn dealer franchise, they will have the whole enchelada. As things stand, virtually most of the Saturn cars, if not SUVs, are simply re-engineered or straight badge-engineered Opels, anyway.
A mixture of the two would also be possible. Replacing the Aura (actually built by GM) with a rebadged Mitsubishi Galant (already homologated for US sale) sold alongside the Opel sourced Saturn Astra, for example.
Magna-Opel-Vauxhall-Holden-Saturn would make more sense than Mitsubishi-Saturn.
The kids lemonaid stand down the road is a more viable business model than Saturn right now. Why even bother writing about a dead brand.
Saturnfans.com should be renamed delusional.com.
Akear:I’ve been a member of Saturnfans for several years. What you have said is sad but true. It’s a well run site with a lot of informed people on it. Sorry to have had to leave it, a generally nice bunch over there.
But there is an minority of members there that says if it doesn’t come from an official GM press release then discussing it is “slander”,”trolling”, “spreading negativity”, “unsubstantiated speculation” or accusations of the member only being there to bash and not acting like a true “fan”. Oh yes: “intentionally trying to kill sales” was another of my favorite responses to commonly reported news stories from the mainstream media, whenever there was a reference to BK or Saturn being discontinued. But ‘Astra Sales were up 26% over last April’ The only nameplate in it’s category to increase sales year over year. It’s an alternative universe.
I finally had to stop participating. After being there for so long, then getting the other side of the story from TTAC and another side from GMI re: Saturn, the level of denial became irritating.
I won’t go back to post or even sign in, but I do check it out occasionally to see the spin and just shake my head.
There’s more than a little truth to the suggestion of a Saturn “cult”. Th S Series reinvented the automobile, didn’tcha know, until GM came along and killed it. That’s why GM is dying because Chevrolet was jealous and on and on….
No wonder, after a session on Saturnfans, I keep running back,screaming,to TTAC.
Denial and false hope are keeping Saturn alive today. The first batch of Saturn fanatics left when the ION was introduced via Opel.
Imagine at one time GM got people so enthusiastic about Saturn that they drove to its factory in Spring Hill. It really did not matter that they were pretty average cars. It was like going to a grateful dead concert. The music was ok, but it was the actual event that mattered more. It is hard to believe that GM squandered this enthusiasm. It was a brilliant con that will not work again. In fact it was pure marketing genius!
This was one of the rare cases were GM’s advertising was almost perfect.
The censorship at Saturnfans now looks ridiculous when you consider the fate Saturn faces today. The remaining fans there are in denial and still think Saturn will be reborn. Any ridiculous rumor about Saturn being bought out is treated as if it were breaking news.
What a strange cult it has become. They still believe it is 1995 and yet support rebadged European cars that have nothing to do with the division’s original mission.
I am waiting for Jill Lajdziak to come down from the mountain top and bring Saturn fans “more encouraging news”.
When Saturn is finally gone the few remaining fans can get together at a coffee house and discuss the good old days.
Mitsubishi is interesting. A lot of their lineup isn’t horrible, but it is invisible. I can’t recall seeing a TV commercial for a Mitsubishi product in the past year or two. They get praise for the Evo, and the Eclipse made a big stir when it debuted, but other than that it’s silence and cobwebs.
I used to own a Mitsubishi, a Montero (the real one, not the ‘sport’ model) and I loved it. I would still be driving it if it didn’t guzzle gas and have obscenely expensive routine maintenance charges.
The old DSMs had/have a cult following amongst the import tuner crowd. An AWD Eclipse or Talon with tons of boost and maybe some nitrous can run with just about anything short of the exotics. The Stealth/3000GT are beautiful cars but again, just too expensive for most people to keep up.
I’d like to see Mitsubishi back in the US market with a strong presence, and becoming the power behind Saturn could be a good way to go. I’d say overall the current lineup would need some major refreshes, but there could be worse fits.
Just think:
Mitsubishi could resurrect the old 4G63T engine and stuff it into an Ion. The result: The Saturn V. It’ll be like a rocket.
It is still difficult to believe any foreign car company wants any U.S. car dealers.
One, of many, reasons why GM and Chrysler failed is because they couldn’t shed dealers. Each dealer wanted an SUV, pick up, sports car, CUV, little car, and their regular sedans. A Cadillac pick up – give me a break. The manufactures gave in to their dealers and created a mess.
Because of individual state franchise laws the manufactures couldn’t say NO to stupid short sighted dealers destroying brand identities or get rid of dealers.
Incidentally the book, “How the Mighty Fail” by Collins is a great read.
Akear: Best summation I have read of Saturn & Saturnfans: clear, objective and true. And I have 2 Saturns in my driveway.
The Saturn mystique and the enthusiasm ginned up by the the marketing department to create a brand was brilliant.Apparently the sales process @ Saturn was studied in business schools.People believedd that if they bought a car from Saturn, they were sort of buying a stake in a new pioneering comapny, that they were full partners in the process of the manufacture and sale of Saturns. Absolute genius. The home “team”.
Nullomodo: in LA Mitsubishi has been running “Fantastic Four” ads touting their products that use their 4 cyl [I think it’s the World engine co developed with DCX and Hyundai]and it’s “up to 30 mpg highway mileage”.
At any rate: I would but a Mitsubishi Lancer or Galant before I bought anything from Saturn.
And at a $S26,000 Fed subsidy for every car GM builds, I would buy a Kia Rio rather than stick my neighbors,friends and neighbors with the bill so I can have the privilege of owning a GM car. Fug em. It’s over.
Mitsubishi may even have superior cars to Saturn’s, but they are not Saturn’s and thus will fail. When Saturn started to rebadge other GM cars the soul was ripped out of the company. I know harping on plastic panels is silly, but it really made a difference to Saturnfans. Unless Saturn starts to produce cars in Springhill again the cult will disappear with the division. Saturn was a community experience that started in Springhill. Rebadging Mitsubishi’s will just be seen as a cynical attempt to keep the division going. It won’t work. Besides the higher ups at Mitsubishi know nothing of this deal. This maybe nothing more than a wild ass rumor.
Saturn is done and it is time to move on.