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Damn any chance we can have a trascript or a blow by blow analysis. I can’t watch the video at work,well I can’t hear it I could watch his mouth move all I want.
So this is how liberty dies…with thundering applause?
I for one am excited to see what kind of technical innovations these new regulations create. Smaller, lighter cars are a good thing.
Heck, maybe GM will be able to license the Volt technology to other companies and actually make some money!
The whole saving the environment thing is a nice extra but not really much of my concern.
The US economy is so screwed.
This isn’t change… it’s more of the same.
While I’d rather see higher gasoline taxes (I’m partial to taxing consumption as opposed to income and assets) the one benefit to the President’s plan is that it gives the car companies a fixed standard to meet. Business needs certain things to be stable and a national standard for emissions is cheaper to meet than having to meet different standards for different states.
Meanwhile, we need to build 4th gen nuclear power plants and seriously fund the polywell fusion project.
Smaller, lighter cars are a good thing.
Tell that to the NHTSA, who also has a say in how cars are made.
Short term this will benefit companies like Lotus, Mahle, and others that specialize in engine development. Look for lots of turbos, superchargers and direct injection.
Speaking of direct injection, I’m surprised that Edelbrock, Dart, Brodix or one of the other companies that makes performance heads for the small block Chevy hasn’t yet come out with a direct injected head for the SBC.
More sunshine from Mr. Hopeychangey
I’m sure the efficient machine that is the US Govt will have GM fixed lickety-split!
(After all GM *will* be the first to implement this… cause they’re owned by the govt… so they have to follow the rules before everyone else…)
Ronnie Schreiber I thought Lotus was mostly chassis and suspensions, and making things lighter. I didn’t think they did much engine development, didn’t they just use a Toyota engine.
It will most likely come with enough loopholes to satisfy most major lobby groups.
I’m surprised that Edelbrock, Dart, Brodix or one of the other companies that makes performance heads for the small block Chevy hasn’t yet come out with a direct injected head for the SBC.
This kind of work, to really solve problems, takes serious intellectual and research capabilities. Companies that just tweak stuff on the dyno don’t have the kind of resources to make designs for the applications we’re talking about.
I thought Lotus was mostly chassis and suspensions, and making things lighter.
Lotus does a lot of joint-development work with research universities like Cambridge and engineering firms like Ricardo and Orbital. Although Lotus doesn’t have the resources themselves, they do have some smart people who are plugged in to various places where good work is being done. But they are still too small to be able to develop and produce the kinds of solutions we need.
# Redbarchetta :
May 19th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Ronnie Schreiber I thought Lotus was mostly chassis and suspensions, and making things lighter. I didn’t think they did much engine development, didn’t they just use a Toyota engine.
Lotus may use Toyota engine variants in their road cars (probably because it’s cheaper to buy than to build), but they do a lot of engine development for other companies. The quad overhead cam engine in the original ZR-1 Corvette was designed by Lotus. They make a programmable ECU that’s used by most of the car and engine companies. Lotus also recently announced the radical Omnivore engine project.
“Smaller, lighter cars are a good thing. ”
No…they are not.
The USA has the most extensive and advanced road system in the world. The VAST capital investment it has taken over the past hundred years to develop our roads is an enormous national asset.
High MPG requirements and more stringent emissions standards will increase cost (To produce the vehicles).
We are in a recession, with over 8% unemployment.
The manufacturing base is already being injured.
How do regulations that increase the cost to use this national asset improve our economy? How do they make our country more effective at the movement of goods and services from one end of the country to the other (Fuel is cheap)?
Simply put, the extra cost for the vehicles will not be ‘gained’ back by being more fuel efficient. Though I would love cars to get lighter, safety requirements (roof crush) seem to keep making vehicles heavier.
Japanese cars were very light in the 80s, partially because they had to be transported by ship to get here, now that cars assembled here, weight is less of a concern.
California’s emissions regulations do more than simply decrease emissions, they also increase cost of ownership through inspections. I doubt my catalytic converterless 1979 jeep wagoneer is going to pass an ’emissions’ inspection of any kind, especially not with the crummy carb I have. I would therefore see an increase in my cost to own this car by having to make it ‘modern’. Or even stock. which it is not.
They make a programmable ECU that’s used by most of the car and engine companies.
Who uses the Lotus ECU? All the major companies use development and production ECUs from their respective suppliers, like Denso and Bosch.
“How do they make our country more effective at the movement of goods and services from one end of the country to the other?”
Burning less fuel and emitting fewer emissions while getting the job done is the very definition of being more effective.
Smaller and lighter are good things for fuel economy and handling…just not in collisions with larger vehicles ;)
As for what it will do for the economy it’s hard to say right now, but people will create new jobs to handle the change in technology – it’s been this way for how long now in the US? That’s the beauty of capitalism.
Sounds like a plan to push people into “light trucks” to me.
Indeed, technology creates jobs. This, however, is not about technology, this is about regulations. We have had the technology for every car to get 40+ MPG for a very very long time (Honda CRX).
Neither economics nor physics appear to be among Obama’s strong points.
Who uses the Lotus ECU?
According to the Lotus Engineering guy I spoke to based in their Ann Arbor facility, just about everyone that develops engines, or at least they’d like to sell it to them. It’s possible that Denso and Bobby Bosch have their own development devices, but the Lotus ECU is marketed to OEMs as a development tool. Lotus would dearly love to sell it to the aftermarket but even BO (before Obama) the EPA would have had a fit.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/CAFE/alternativefuels/background.htm
This is interesting. 3/4 down the page it explains how flex fuel works. You can take a vehicle that gets 12.6mpg with gasoline, give it a flex-fuel engine, and it magically becomes a 21.9mpg vehicle!
gasoline mileage: 12.6mpg
E85 mileage: 12.6/0.15 = 84mpg (0.15 is the percent gasoline in E85)
expected E85 usage: 50% of vehicle life
average mileage assuming 50/50 gasoline/E85 use: 1/(0.50/12.6+0.50/84)=21.9mpg
Burning less fuel and emitting fewer emissions while getting the job done is the very definition of being more effective.
Not necessarily, there are other factors like time, load, etc. “Effective” depends on meeting the needs of the task at hand. I’d say that getting the maximum amount of energy out of a fuel while creating as little waste as possible is the most efficient thing. It’s not surprising that the ZR1 makes 600+ HP yet can get 28 mpg on the highway.
This is interesting. 3/4 down the page it explains how flex fuel works. You can take a vehicle that gets 12.6mpg with gasoline, give it a flex-fuel engine, and it magically becomes a 21.9mpg vehicle!
What a load of crap. E85 hurts your mileage A LOT.
Amazing the lies that will be told to please the enviro-nazis.
I’m an environmentalist, and I’m not pleased by it. imo, it’s there to please the Big 3 and the farm lobby.
More sunshine from Mr. Hopeychangey
That’s Hopey McChange.
This will do a fine job of making the real cost of personal automotive transportation much less affordable for all.
Enjoy the hybrid bus ride, proles
What was the mode of transportation for the GM and Chrysler officials in attendance at this announcement?
Did the “governator” (Schwarzenegger) fly commercial? or drive? The last time I checked California was broke and was looking for assistance from the President.
I hope the auto executives from GM and Chrysler flew commercial or drove to Washington. We wouldn’t want to hear that they squandered the tax payers money on private jets. Or maybe President Obama gave them a ride on the world’s largest business jet (aka Air Force One) when he was in Indiana the other day.
Perhaps after the Texas secession, those few great patriots down there can:
-Start burning leaded gas again
-Bring back the tax deduction for Hummers
-Go to war and invade an oil-producing country if they run out of their own sticky stuff
A humongus number of variables in so many aspects of society, economics, foreign relations, military expenditures and hundreds more prohibits any guesses on my part regarding federal fuel milage requirements.
Only time will tell.
Would be rather satisfying to minimize the cash flow for imported oil.
Obama is still a lackey, however.
Where’s the national initiative to perfect nuclear fusion and obtain enormous amounts of electricity and potable water?
About time!! I’m sure the “God, Guns, Guts” “patriots” won’t like it but who cares? Not me. The HUMMER era is over.
How long before the environmental nazi start burning 4 cylinder Accords etc for ruining the air?
The HUMMER era is still here. There is still a huge loophole for light trucks. Want a Camry with an engine larger than 1.8 liters? You’ll have to buy a Venza instead.
The successionist movement is alive and well in many more places than just Texas.
When the government no longer serves the people, it is the people’s responsibility to find one that does. There are just too many irreconcilable differences between large groups of Americans, and it may be best for us to just go our separate ways to avoid even bigger problems down the road.
I still don’t know why they are stoping at 35.5 Why not go for 100 mpg? Heck, double down, go for 200.
Government-owned banks. Government-owned car companies. Socialized medicine. Cap and trade. Union card check. Huge CAFE standard increases. Huge tax increases. Huge deficit increases. Probably I have left a lot out. The Obama administration and the current Congress are something else. I am not sure I could come up with a worse set of policies if I tried. Don’t know if we will survive it, but we need to start fighting now.
P.S. That 2011 Town Car is looking better all the time!
Finally, an adult in the White House willing to act decisively.
The old ways had crashed the whole industry. Now there’s a clear direction out of the death spiral.
This will spur all kinds of beneficial technical development and actually reduce dependence on foreign oil.
ronnie:
but the Lotus ECU is marketed to OEMs as a development tool. Lotus would dearly love to sell it to the aftermarket but even BO (before Obama) the EPA would have had a fit.
Is this replacement for the oem ecu or what?
Finally, an adult in the White House willing to act decisively.
The old ways had crashed the whole industry. Now there’s a clear direction out of the death spiral.
This will spur all kinds of beneficial technical development and actually reduce dependence on foreign oil.
What if customers decide these new cars don’t meet their needs and decide to keep their old more polluting cars? What then? A mandatory scrappage program? Will I be forced out of my guzzler after an arbitrary length of time? Will it be deemed illegal for me to drive it?
How about an energy policy that spurs demand for these types of vehicles, rather than a mandate to produce with no mandate to buy.
“Will I be forced out of my guzzler after an arbitrary length of time?”
That depends on how many other boys are in line, son.
“What if customers decide these new cars don’t meet their needs and decide to keep their old more polluting cars? What then?”
Given the resource situation, environmental degradation and economic trends, it’s hard to imagine a scenario that would make such a reversal possible.
The flip answer is that there will probably still be plenty of unsold SUVs left over that people would be able to buy.
taxman: “The successionist movement is alive and well in many more places than just Texas.”
Sure, in places like Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina, and certainly at various goose-stepping and hood-wearing venues. Thankfully, these are mostly disaffected losers who comprise about 20 percent of the population. Obama commands the support of almost sixty percent of the American people right now.
Most literate people know that we can’t go on forever eating Wonder bread and fried twinkies. Sooner or later, our irrational behavior, be it incessantly eating pork rinds while watching brothers and sisters fight over their baby on the Jerry Springer show; or, commuting fifty miles per day to your job as a debt collector in a gas guzzling pickup truck. These are not winning positions.
Obama is the wake up call. He is the challenge. Find a better candidate than Sarah Palin, Mark Sandford, or Dick Cheney, or live in political exile. And remember: First he gonna take yo car, then he gonna sleep wit yo daughter!
taxman100 :
May 19th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
The successionist movement is alive and well in many more places than just Texas.
When the government no longer serves the people, it is the people’s responsibility to find one that does. There are just too many irreconcilable differences between large groups of Americans, and it may be best for us to just go our separate ways to avoid even bigger problems down the road.
I believe you mean the secessionist movement. Success is something that a large number of US states are aiming for, while failure is something just a few are hoping for after the change of administrations?
By the date Obama has stated, cars will be more efficient than the targets by factors, except for those produced by manufacturers with a secessionist mentality.
@Robert Schwartz :
I still don’t know why they are stoping at 35.5 Why not go for 100 mpg? Heck, double down, go for 200.
Because 35.5 is not even ambitious with today’s technology…?
Just got off work for my “weekend” (Wed-Fri). Looks like I’ve got a lot of congressmen to write, call, and a few to visit at my state capitol. I suggest that those of you who don’t want your future car castrated for “the common good” do the same. If we just sit in front of a computer blogging about this, we become no better than the wannabe-totalitarian pussies that helped set all of this in motion. I know one guy complaining to his elected officials won’t change much of anything in the grand scheme of things, but at least when our choices of transport become limited to glorified golf carts I’ll be able to say I didn’t let it happen without a fight. I challenge every poster here who doesn’t agree with this robbery of freedom/choice not to bother complaining about it without first doing something about it.
It’s about time. Previous administrations have been too hesitant to act out of fear of damaging the US auto industry, but where has that gotten us? Up until recently, American companies would have loved to just keep pumping out fuel hungry vehicles, and finally someone in government has realized we can’t just drive down the freeway in ignorance. Fuel dependency will only continue to drag this country down.
I have to smile at everyone speaking out of paranoia. You realize we are only talking a net increase of maybe 8 mpg average. +8 mpg is not hard to do and many cars currently for sale already meet this standard. This average mpg number has slowly increased over time. There have never been any efforts to force removal of older less efficient cars. From a government perspective, there is no need to do so. It’s too expensive, and all that is solved over time naturally. Also, it’s likely that less efficient cars will still be sold, they will just have a cooresponding gas-guzzler tax.
I’m a car guy, and I know this will have an impact on my future purchases, but I whole heartedly support this. Hopefully, there are plans to increase that number over time.
carlos.negros: Obama commands the support of almost sixty percent of the American people right now.
Which is a meaningless figure, as different polls can result in different results, depending on how the questions are phrased.
One polling organization’s results show that President Obama’s approval rating is dropping and is below where George W. Bush was in an comparable period in 2001. See, polls can prove anything…
After Texas secession, the many UN-patriots down here will:
– Shake our heads in pity as the debt-based Imperial Court in D.C. runs its client states into authoritarian ruin and violence.
– Revoke all fascistic “tax breaks” for any private enterprise.
– Engage in peaceful commerce with all other nations of the world to became the world-leader in technical and societal innovation, instead of invading them.
I can see by the comments here that higher education hasn’t reached the minds of many americans.
Obama is a genius and his cabinet contains some of the best people in the world for their respective jobs. This legislation not only is long overdue, but similar standards have already been set in most developed countries for a long time now.
Hats off to them for pulling this off. Hopefully, the standards will continue to rise steadily after 2016 as well.
The problem with this solution is that it is an attempt to achieve environmental ambitions while retaining the status quo of low-density suburban housing, separated work and live zones, long commutes and the 3000-mile caesar salad.
First, as a poster mentioned, it will only affect new vehicles entering the fleet. It will take years, if not a decade, to see any meaningful reduction in the net fleet consumption. A gas tax has the potential to prompt change in consumption patterns for both new vehicles and the existing fleet.
Higher fuel taxes would promote a change in how we structure our living arrangements. Cities would be encouraged to do away with zoning restrictions and allow mixed-use development that mean people could actually live close to where they work.
Higher fuel prices would enter into the calculation when deciding whether to buy a bigger house in the ‘burbs an hour from the office, or to buy a smaller place only minutes from work.
It would take a generation, but higher fuel prices will slowly encourage real change in how we live, and real benefits to the environment and to “energy security.” CAFE-type requirements are merely a bandaid on an oozing wound.
And best of all for the “freedom”** junkies higher gas taxes without CAFE restrictions mean you can still buy that gas-guzzling truck or sports car, and drive it as much as you like if that is a priority for you.
**I love how the most vocal proponents of “freedom” would seem to support politicians that implement warrantless wiretapping policies
Since I have nothing to hide, the government could listen to every one of my phone calls and I’d not care at all.