Mark from Klamath Falls, writes:
My friend from Europe is visiting the USA next summer. We’re planning a three week road trip around the American Southwest. He’s a car fan (Alfa Romeo variety), and wants to tour around in something typically American with a V-8 and a drop top. I normally drive a Miata, but that’s too small for all our stuff, plus no V-8 (at least not yet).
I figure I can buy a previous generation (2004 and older) Mustang GT convertible, drive it for the summer, and then sell it for about the cost of a rental. My question: what suspension modifications do I need to make beyond new tires and shocks to make the Mustang handle reasonably well (not Miata-like but close) without resulting in a ride that beats us up on long trips? I’m thinking Panhard Rod, but am open to any ideas that cost less than around $1,000 in parts (I can do the install myself for anything short of major surgery).
Please note: this has to be an American V-8 convertible – don’t bother suggesting alternative cars that don’t fit that criteria.
Sajeev answers:
While the best answer is your aforementioned Miata LS-1 swap, the older (SN-95 body) Mustang is a great idea. Even better, I can leverage my years of Fox Body Ford modifications in a way that cannot possibly creep out the likes of Bill Montgomery. So let’s do this thing . . .
First off, get a 1999 or newer Mustang GT. Don’t even consider the boat anchor 1996-98 vintage, unless the word “Cobra” is involved. While the 1994-95 Mustangs have tons of potential with their 5.0 motors and nicer, pre-Jac Nasser seats and interior materials, they are still slower (and thirstier) than the “Performance Improved” 4.6L single-cam of the later models. As an added bonus, these Mustangs sound like they have a custom cat-back exhaust from the factory. Well, almost.
Now to the modifications: get weld-in sub frame connectors. This is crucial to tighten the loosey-goosey underpinnings. You may never see sub frame connectors, but they work wonders on a droptop Mustang that’s deeply rooted in the weight conscious, energy crisis design tradition of the Ford Fairmont. Find a set that also bolts to the front seat tracks, should be around $300.
From there, do your aforementioned summer tire upgrade. The panhard bar is a great idea too, but I am not sure it’s worth a third of your $1000 budget. You’re gonna get more (I mean less) bang for your buck with chassis stiffeners.
Now attack the suspension with (lowering) springs and (Tokico) shocks from a 2001 Bullitt Mustang. The Bullitt stuff not only gives Euro-like performance with OEM levels of compliance, they make would-be Mustang buyers swoon. Or look at you funny, if you put them on a Fox Body Mercury Cougar. But I wouldn’t know anything about that.
Drive with the Bullitt stuff, then consider the rear sway bar: a 1” bar from a 1994-1998 Mustang Cobra to wipe out most of the GT’s understeering tendencies. If I remember correctly, only the rear bar changed on the Cobras, and it made a world of difference. Again, ask the guy with a Cobra rear bar on a Mercury Cougar. I’m just sayin’!
My next item is the most memorable for a European fan visiting America: a short throw billet shifter to really let you bang the gears without destroying anything. I would recommend Steeda’s Tri-Ax or an MGW shifter over any of their competitors. There is nothing like the feel of ripping a flawless 1-2 shift and barking the tires with a billet-perfected shifter. This is a part you can use, enjoy, remove and sell on Craigslist with little depreciation.
One more item to make a Euro-fan giddy with excitement: remove the airbox’s snorkel. It’s in the fender. Not only is this a free modification that nets up to 5hp, it makes a far more thrilling sound.
And lastly: pick up a Mustang enthusiast magazine. The number of vendors selling the parts recommended here are simply astounding, and it’s a buyer’s market. Ford parts departments will also chomp at the bit for your (Bullitt) business, so have at it.
No matter what you choose, you’re gonna have a blast. Do it.
[send your technical queries to mehta@ttac.com]
I believe Mr. Mehta was just pitched a slow meatball on that one!
I’m gonna be the first guy to recommend a LS1 Z28 or Trans Am convertible.
Equivalents:
– Cost
– Packing room
– Availability of cheap parts, easy servicing, and stable resale market
Pros:
– Lower wind noise & interior wind flow for extended top-down driving sessions. People poke fun at this but if you intend on spending 6-8 hour driving days with the top down, it should not be ignored.
– Much better out of the box performance manual vs. manual
– Better fuel economy (not a priority but worth noting)
Negs:
– Generally lesser quality interior, but I think the ergonomics are better
– The factory sound system isn’t nearly as nice as the Mustang kits
Comments:
– If you are insistent about the handling work, simply doing a proper strut/shock replacement will dial in a factory Z28’s/TA’s handling quite nicely if you have realistic expectations for a heavy live axle car. The factory suspension bits are pretty decent but the factory damper tuning/durability isn’t there. Combined with the fact that typical driver’s don’t bother with strut replacements…
Why not just get a 2001 bullit and do less modifications? much less of a hassle, and i rekon selling a bullit would be easier than a regular GT.
Currently having both a 2004 and a 2006 Mustang Convertibles in my stable now, I would highly recommend expanding your search to include a 2005 or newer Mustang GT Convertible if possible. The handling is great out of the box compared to the 2004 and older and the ride quality on a long trip is far superior on our 2006. The road noise with the top down is less and you actually have room for a fairly large suitcase in the newer model. In our 2004, we are limited to small cases or medium sized duffle bags, just to fit in the trunk opening. My wife loves her 2004 and will probably keep it forever if she can, but hands down when it comes to any kind of road trip the newer convertible is the choice.
This really makes me want to run out and buy a Mustang! I’d much prefer the 87-93 Fox body, personally. Just for nostalgia.
Ronman : Why not just get a 2001 bullit and do less modifications? much less of a hassle, and i rekon selling a bullit would be easier than a regular GT.
Convertibles only for this discussion.
And the LS1 Camaro idea is a great one, because it IS a far superior package from the factory. But I could never get over the terrifying interior, passenger floorpan bump and insane overhangs. There’s a reason they sold more SN-95 V6 Mustangs than F-bodies (all of them) sometime around the introduction of the LS1…powertrains unfortunately don’t sell cars.
For a three-week trip, I’d rent a car. You should be able to find a V-8 Mustang convertible at Hertz.
I would not buy a used one with the expectation of breaking even, particularly if you factor in the time needed to find one to buy and then later sell it.
To expand the options—-
If a smooth ride becomes more important as the interstate and state road miles add up to a beat up lower back from stiff suspensions, one can always look at an old 60-70’s american land yacht convertible.
Of course, you’d have to find one in good enough condition to be reliable and reasonably safe, but if you are reasonably mechanically adept, there is no emergency repair on one that cannot be done. When you are done, it could probably be sold for what your paid for it.
I remember on my wedding day my 67 Ford Galaxie convertible blew the upper radiator hose sitting in front of the church during the wedding. All my wedding party did was cut the 2 inches off of the end that was split (with a pocket knife), and reattach it. It worked under I replaced the hose after the honeymoon,
Downside #2 – any crack addict knows how to hotwire it and steal it.
“what suspension modifications do I need to make beyond new tires and shocks to make the Mustang handle reasonably well”
Why ruin the full yank tank experience with good handling!?
Seriously though, a mildly beaten old Caddy drop-top from the early 70s would be an awesome first pick. The Mustang? meh. It will work too, but it lacks a bit in comparison.
First of all, just get used to the fact that this is NOT a Miata or CERTAINLY not an Alfa Romeo. It’ll be a big thirsty, floaty boat whose boot won’t require Tetris Skills to pack and whose performance on a twisty back road will disappoint. BUT, on those long straights, or on the Interstates, it will be fine and dandy. Go with the (American) flow.
Just as you would not want a GMC Yukon, but kill for an Alfa Romeo for a trip through the Dolomites, having a “typically handling” American convertible for a road trip in the American West will fit the environment to a T.
–chuck
I feel cheated when you mentioned Nicola Romeo I thought this was going to be about Alfa’s.
It’s funny when you think about it now that there are so few cars to choose from that are American V8 convertables with better than crappy handling. Out of all the models the 3 sell and used to sell the list is very small and only slightly larger if you add a fixed top.
You can rent a Vette droptop from Hertz…not sure you’ll make any money or even recoup your money on buying a Mustang/F-Body and then modifying it.
100% on the subframe connectors.
I just had these welded into my 2002 Coupe, and I noticed an immediate difference. I can’t even imagine how much improvement they would give a convertible.
$125 for Maximum Motorsports full-length subframes w/ seat braces
$200 properly welded in by a respected Mustang shop
Personally, I think that the 99-04 GT’s are sprung WAY too stiff from the factory. As a daily driver, I really wouldn’t want to imagine mine any stiffer/ lower. I feel like the subframes really tighten up the body enough to take advantage of the factory suspension.
FYI.
Also, factor in a few hundred for mufflers. Stock sound is pretty good, but a nice pair of mufflers really changes the experience. It’s wonderful.
As an alternative suggestion, what about a Corvette from the early 90s or late 80s? American V8, available as a convertible, and is a competent handler stock (compared to the Mustang). And it doesn’t have the weird floor bump on the passenger side (I actually only learned about this yesterday, why is it there?). The Mustangs are really only designed to go fast in a straight line (IMO).
Get a Camaro convertible – at least those aren’t a nightmare to drive.
Seriously, those Mustangs have the worst ergonomics. The seating position is horrible. The shifter is a piece of shit – and I’ve driven them with the Steeda “fix”, its still a piece of shit.
The Camaro, by comparison, has god’s personal engine – the LS1, and a far more competent chassis to boot.
Or hell, get a Corvette convertible – C4 or C5 should get the job done.
chuckgoolsbee
Seriously though, a mildly beaten old Caddy drop-top from the early 70s would be an awesome first pick.
Are you trying to send the friend back to Europe early? I’m a big Detroit iron kinda guy, but an early 70s big GM convertible would be my absolute last choice for transportation to the closest grocery store (or maybe gas station) let alone across country.
Actually, it may be great fun. Lots of travel games, like how many railroad tracks can we cross before the windshield cracks because of shuddering flexible frames. Or, what kind of gas mileage can we get with that Caddy 500 cid V8. And, how long do we have to let it sit and cool off before the weak starter can overcome all the carbon-enhanced compression and actually turn the damned thing over so it will start. Or count the cracks on the dashboard and door panels – these guys will be busy for weeks.
Dudes – stick with the Mustang!
Good lord, man…hit eBay and behold what you can get. Look for convertibles with V8’s and there’s all sorts of cool stuff:
A ’72 LTD with a 351 Windsor
Cadillac Fleetwood with a 500
’67 Pontiac Grand Prix
Lots of big cruisers for the Southwest. I know your friend is Italian and they make fun little cars for the fun little mountain roads there, but for eating lots of miles on the highway there’s nothing better than a huge American convertible. Personally, I’d take the Caddy, put some work into extracting a few more horses from that enormous V8, and put a nice stereo in it.
If you feel like corner carving, take the Miata. Your friend can get that where he’s from. He will never get the chance to drive top-down Route 66 at 100+ MPH in a car where the end of the hood meets the horizon.
He will never get the chance to drive top-down Route 66 at 100+ MPH in a car where the end of the hood meets the horizon.
Now that I think about it that does sound very appealing. You very well may have captured the American dream using words. Bonus points for the old Cadillacs being rolling couches.
Dude, Cadillacs and Mustangs are for pussies.
F-150 + sawzall = I dont’ quite know what, but it will be awesome. If you’ve got any spare steel tubing lying around you could go right ahead and build a full external cage…”for the pedestrians.”
Gotta treat the tourists right.
And weld a few obvious metal plates to the roof, tell him it was for the .50 cal gimbal mount that you had to remove because of, “that commie bastard new president.”
joemoc1 : Currently having both a 2004 and a 2006 Mustang Convertibles in my stable now, I would highly recommend expanding your search to include a 2005 or newer Mustang GT Convertible if possible. The handling is great out of the box compared to the 2004 and older and the ride quality on a long trip is far superior on our 2006.
If that’s the case, definitely avoid the 2004 and earlier models! Having driven no convertibles other than a Miata, I was absolutely shocked at how flimsy the chassis on a 2005 Mustang Convertible is when my mother received one to use for the summer from her son-in-law (she had always wanted a Mustang Convertible in her younger days, and the new ones have similar styling). With the chassis constantly twisting over imperfect roads, it provides a strange feeling for drivers who are used to a solid car. Minor steering corrections are needed regularly to compensate for the rear wheel steering this flex provides. At the end of the summer, she could have kept it but gave it back as she preferred her ridiculously unrefined ’99 Sunfire GT! She actually never noticed the chassis flex and disliked it for other reasons: ergonomics and blind spots. Of course, this was a gutless automatic V6 version so maybe a V8 manual would have helped me to overlook the convertible’s shortcomings.
Thanks so much for all the advice, Sajeev – it’s good to have input from someone who is familiar with the kind of vehicle that you are thinking about buying. Sounds like subframe, tires, swaybar, and short shift kit are definite additions.
I’m a bit unsure about “(lowering) springs and (Tokico) shocks from a 2001 Bullitt Mustang” – is that going to stiffen up the ride too much? I’ve driven stock GTs and they don’t beat me up too much. From 300six’s comments it sounds like the subframe alone might be enough.
As to the alternatives suggested, I’ve considered them. A LS1 Z28 or Trans Am convertible would be nice, but due to my body shape (short legs, long torso) they are actually less ergonomic for me than a Mustang. Moreover, here in rural southern Oregon I have my pick of Mustang convertibles, but LS1 Camaros are not to be found (I’ve only seen V-6 versions for sale).
I’m well aware that the 2005 and later Mustangs have a better suspension and interior, but depreciation is not yet my friend – maybe in another 5-6 years. I could rent a new one, but I’d prefer a stick, and I’ve yet to see a rental car with a stick here in the USA. Same thing with a rental Corvette.
As to an old Yank Tank, yeah, it would look cool, but every time I ride in one I get carsick. Lots of the American West is not straight interstate territory (at least the parts I plan to take my friend to), and cars where you have to turn the wheel well before you need to change direction are not for me (not to mention not wanting to spend my trip time wrenching).
DarkSpork suggested a late 80s/early 90s Corvette – right price range, but wrong ride quality. The performance is fun, but they are too stiffly sprung for me, at least for long trips. If I were a bit younger and tougher, it would be my first choice.
Oh, and my friend just likes Italian cars. He’s actually from Denmark, a country where they tax cars like you would not believe. The idea that you can get a V-8 for ordinary person money just blows his mind.
Mark, I doubt the Bullitt springs/shocks are much stiffer. I suspect the shocks will have better rebound control, and anyone who’s seen the back of an SN-95 understands why the Bullitt was lowered. Fat Ass syndrome is just shameful considering how trim the Fox Chassis used to be.
It’s been said that 90’s model Fords sit so high (especially on the ass end) so they can easily be fitted with snow chains. Not sure if that’s true, but I’ve heard dumber things in my short time on this planet.
Anyway, you got a point: so subframes, swaybar(swaybars?), shifter and tires are a great start. I’m sure Maximum Motorsports will make you a deal on their subframes+ Cobra rear bar if you ask them. More to the point, ask these folks about our plan for the car, and see what they say.
Here’s a slightly crazy idea but one sure to make the trip memorable: buy a nice 427 Cobra replica.
I did a 500 mile drive one day in a Factory Five Racing Cobra that was set up well and was amazed by the comfortable ride and the handling and performance is far superior to a Mustang.
Downsides, of course, are that there is no air condition or windows, the seats look cool but aren’t really meant for long trips (nothing some aftermarket buckets won’t solve if you don’t mind the look… it’s a fake anyway, so who cares). Oh yeah, even if you had a radio it would be unlikely that you could hear it anyway over the music from the side pipes.
As a bonus, the trunk actually holds a fair amount.
But what an epic trip that would be.
Being from Denmark myself, I thought I just wanted to make you guys appreciate how good you have it the good ol’ US of A…
In Denmark, car taxes are ridiculous!..how much do you think?..25%?..50%?…100%?..nope..try 215%!!
plus you have to pay consumption tax as well, so all in all 240%!!!
My dream too, is a road trip across the states, preferably in a 1960′ muscle car..those cars had soul!!