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According to the AP, “sections of Broadway from 47th to 42nd streets and 35th to 33rd streets have been closed to cars in a city effort to reduce traffic and pollution and cut down on pedestrian accidents.” According to the NY Post, drivers are “furious,” arguing that the shutdown will actually worsen congestion.
34 Comments on “Times Square Goes Car-Free...”
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lol, the NY Post article dwells on the “furious” drivers….the NY Times has a similar article which is more circumspect and pro-car ban…..as always, the truth is somewhere in between.
Bloomberg still has to do something to fix cross-town traffic though.
I was driving in NYC on Saturday and it took me an hour to get uptown on the west side highway. Once you get to midtown, the traffic is terrible.
And this is in a city with great mass transit? Ooh, I can’t wait for those ideals to permeate all the way out here to cow country. We already have epic traffic jams; but we lack ANY alternatives in the way of mass transit.
It is a fucking awful idea. Give me a week of dealing with it and I’ll tell you exactly how bad.
Why would New Yorkers complain? I thought they hated the auto industry, everything they produce, and can live just fine without them?
Does Alec Baldwin have any comments? Anyone? Anyone?
Sounds like New York City must want you to do your business activity somewhere else.
I’ve heard New York City and New York State are both have more tax revenue than they know how to spend, so they have no problem in telling private enterprise to step off to someplace else. They won’t suffer from being very business unfriendly.
Oh wait…..
As discussed here, Mayor Bloomberg proposed this back in February, supported by the usual suspects.
Cars? Why would anyone in NYC need cars? What about that wonderful, adequate public transportation that the Urbo-snobs always tell us ‘hicks’ we need to build?
I’ll be interested to see if even uber-trendy, ultra-Utopian, super-social-engineering, exquitely-elitist, smarter-than-thou New Yorkers are addled enough to tolerate this exercise in moral preening. I expect they’re more like Ted Kennedy – all for alternative lifestyle chic, except when it threatened to appear off his own private coastline in the form of wind power generators.
rodster205 :
May 26th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Cars? Why would anyone in NYC need cars? What about that wonderful, adequate public transportation that the Urbo-snobs always tell us ‘hicks’ we need to build?
And you notice those same snobs never take transportation that requires them to travel with the great unwashed. It’s always limos and private jets for them.
Bah. I was just in New York, and every driver I spoke to was indifferent at worst. The Post isn’t a reliable newspaper unless you enjoy tabloid-style journalism.
Honestly, anyone trying to get somewhere quickly stayed away from Times Square before; only cab drivers are going to be upset about this.
NYC was never car friendly as they resisted the nationwide movement of urban renewal in the 1950s. I quite like Manhattan’s mix of public transport and high density office space and living. Some would argue that they need to be able to go where ever they want by car but the majority clearly disagrees as there is no shortage of people that want to both live and do business there. It’s a free country – nobody forces you to live there.
Actually, cities that are pleasant for pedestrians are the wave of the future.
When you look at the various surveys that list which cities have the highest quality of life, places like Copenhagen or Munich or Vienna come up on top.
Even hard-ass places like London and Paris are following this trend, and are taking care of bicyclists and pedestrians.
The basic conundrum is this: a city cannot thrive by making itself more convenient for car owners. You add traffic, you kill urbanity.
Quality of life is good for growth. Mayor Mike is a smart guy, he has read his Richard Florida, and he knows what has to be done to keep New York competitive.
The problem is 42nd st. is the fastest way across town in the evening, at least if you get caught in a certain range of midtown. And what about commercial deliveries? Those trucks just fill up the rest of midtown given half a chance, and they aren’t about to be pushed out with “congestion pricing”, the price of goods will just go up.
If Bloomberg had pushed hard for an underground freight line and above/below ground driving lanes then this pedestrian zone would make a lot more sense. He didn’t because frankly not a lot of quality thought goes into transportation issues in his administration as compared to education (hey I can respect those priorities actually).
The level of ignorance here is just astounding.
I’m looking out my window at Broadway & West 57th Street, and what I see is many people out enjoying Times Square, while cars, trucks, buses and taxis are quietly moving from Broadway to Seventh Avenue.
First of all, how many of you so-called B&B have ever tried to walk through Times Square when tourists are out in full force? It’s worse than any traffic jam you’ll ever experience as a driver. The reality is that Times Square is all about very little space competing for pedestrians, cars, trucks, buses, bikes and all forms of commerce. The pollution can be nauseating,crossing Broadway is dangerous, especially for the tourists who aren’t used to it. Something has to be done.
I’ll try to answer this point by point, realizing that I’ll bring a lot of hate on:
– Slateslate: You’re the only one who makes any sense. The NY Post never gets anything right; anything that differs from cars=good, bikers=elitist and they’re against it. And so you don’t think I’m a complete knee-jerk liberal, the NY Times is too far the other way and they’re not always to be trusted (as we all know).
– MikeyDee: For God’s Sake it’s an experiment! Give it a chance to work. It’s not like traffic in Times Square is all fine and no change needed to be made. If this doesn’t work, Bloomberg won’t hesitate to feed our DOT commissioner to the wolves and bring back the cars.
– Autojunkie: F–k Alec Baldwin! As a New Yorker, I resent being lumped in with his likes. Baldwin is a half-decent actor who happens to be a loudmouthed, abusive imbecile. He’s no more representative of NYC than Blogoyevich is of the average Chicagoan or Kwame Kilpatrick is of most Michiganers.
taxman100: Hasn’t anyone told you that just because you read it on the Internet it isn’t necessarily the truth? NY State has an awful deficit just like everyone else is facing these days. The idea that we have it all funneled away as a hedge against The Big Meltdown is conspiracy claptrap. Do yourself a favor and stop listening to Michael Savage.
– DaddyofPayton & rodster205 : No one, not even the elitist lefty social engineering types here, would ever think that mass transit could replace the private car in the boonies. Don’t apply your situation and pre-conceived notions about big-city living to what we really experience here.
moedaman: Just because the Wall Street jerks who got us into this mess practice their trade in NYC doesn’t mean we’re all rich people who take limos. In fact, more and more people HAVE to take mass transit because hard times have even hit the master of the universe. The fact is that in Manhattan there are more vehicles than space on the road. I know that’s a ridiculous concept for gearheads to understand, but it’s true. There’s always going to be hypocrites who want people to do as they say, not as they do, but that doesn’t make a good idea less valid. And this is a good idea.
Hey guys (and I sense there’s mostly testosterone at TTAC), if you live in the suburbs or somewhere rural and love the freedom of your car, great, God Bless. I grew up in car culture, love most aspects of it, and understand where you’re coming from. But I live in Manhattan now. Your rules and accepted wisdom don’t apply here. That’s why it’s so distressing to see such a myopic inability to see beyond your own prejudices and worldview.
bomberpete
Times Square from 57th St.? Or Columbus Circle?
If you’re looking at 42nd then you have one hell of a view.
tedward,
28th floor from Broadway & 57th. Almost but not quite as great a view as 42nd Street. Wish it were my regular office.
tedward,
I agree that an underground freight line would make a huge difference, but it wouldn’t happen before our great-grandchildren hit middle age. As you probably know, NYC has been trying to build a new subway line for 60 years and it’s still not even close to done!
NYC has traditionally had very narrow thinking about transportation, but it’s changing – FAST!
Check out this story on the DOT commissioner:
http://nymag.com/news/features/56794/
It almost seems like it was written to deliberately piss off TTAC readers, doesn’t it?
Enjoy!
Given the pedestrian density in Times Square, this is quite a good idea. As noted, the cabbies will hate it, but for anyone trying to go someplace in Manhattan by car Times Square is best avoided in any case. Even on ‘decent’ days the situation approached gridlock.
It’s a good experiment, I hope the disruption in the traffic patterns (especially cross town) proves to be an acceptable tradeoff.
BTW, most businesses in the area get their truck deliveries overnight or very early in the morning.
Thanks, bomberpete.
I work in San Francisco and sometimes it seems like half the comments here are by people who’d like to impose their car culture on our specific situation, and then accuse us of imposing our situation on them.
Actually, there are proposals here in SF to eliminate cars on part of Market Street. It’s a miserable stretch of road to ever be stuck on… as long as they give drivers a way to cross from one side of Market to the other, I don’t mind the ban. (I take public transit to work, but I often drive up on weekends.)
Anyone who thinks Manhattan is all about the car has never been here. It’s a lousy place for cars, and even if Robert Moses had leveled the whole damn island and made a NASCAR track in Central Park it would STILL be a lousy place for cars.
So nothing, including the status quo, will make it a better place to drive. Get over it. The world is full of great places to drive, this ain’t one of them.
It is however, a great place to walk and an easy place to take transit. And, ironically, even though this plan will improve the pedestrian experience it will actually make traffic flow better, too. It is a common misconception that more roads = less traffic. The opposite is in fact true. And getting rid of a few 3-way intersections will actually improve driving through that area once everyone gets their knickers un-twisted.
As for the Post, let’s just say I tried to line my bird cage with it and the birds won’t even crap on it.
Does any serious person care what Rupert Murdoch’s NY Post thinks about an issue? The fewer cars trying to run around a super dense area like downtown Manhattan, the better.
I agree with bomberpete.
I live in Manhattan now. Your rules and accepted wisdom don’t apply here.
This statement works two ways, though. What “works” from the perspective of East Coasties and Left Coasties, doesn’t work for everyone else.
I spent most of my life in suburbs and edge cities, and now spend a lot of time in NYC, I’m fortunate to understand both perspectives.
I just hope this doesn’t screw things up for the Mr. Softee truck guys! We’ll never hear the end of it on David Letterman.
Honestly I was wondering when this would finally happen. From my visits there traffic was a nightmare with too many pedestrians and too little space for them to walk. Maybe, just maybe closing off the roads and allowing pedestrians to move more efficiently instead of being forced onto smaller sidewalks – life will be easier (considering the pedestrians far outnumber the drivers at almost any given time).
Maybe if it is successful NY can can plant some trees to help clean the environment from immense pollution and improve the quality of life from a concrete jungle / oven some actual greenery.
I’ve always enjoyed driving through Times Square, but would only do it at night or on the weekends. It’s a shame not to be able to make that lovely drive down Broadway through 42nd street at night in a convertible preferably. But I can see why it was done. Times Square has become insanely crowded with pedestrians. I would never drive through there if I actually had to be somewhere.
Rod Panhard :
This statement works two ways, though. What “works” from the perspective of East Coasties and Left Coasties, doesn’t work for everyone else.
– Quite true. I have to stress that point again and again with my bicycle, Auto-Free NY and Transportation Alternatives friends.
I spent most of my life in suburbs and edge cities, and now spend a lot of time in NYC, I’m fortunate to understand both perspectives.
– You’re the increasingly rare American who can see both sides of an issue. I’m guessing that you stay away from both Fox News Channel AND MSNBC.
I just hope this doesn’t screw things up for the Mr. Softee truck guys! We’ll never hear the end of it on David Letterman.
That would be sad. But I will tell you that the Mr. Softee guy on the northwest corner of 8th Avenue & W. 57th Street is a great guy.
In New York City the only thing that’s one hour away from secound street is third street.
Let’s hope it goes better than the area in Boston, that area got all ghetto and bad due to neglect and store owners want the cars back. Can’t remember where it is exactly, near the park, there a Filene’s Basement and an H&M around it.
Rumor here in Shanghai is that the construction around the Bund will mean the street becomes a pedestrain walkway and cars will be underneath or routed around. If it happens it’ll be great, that area sux to walk around.
Just lending suport here…Not being a “big city dweller”, my recent trip to NYC was daunting to say the least. I’ve lived the “city life” (LA, SF, Honolulu, Paris, Frankfurt, Lisbon) but NYC is very different. I can not imagine why anyone would attempt to drive in Times Square (if they knew where they were going) with all the Ped traffic. I was watching traffic one evening and the traffic light times were longer for the Peds than for the cars. With people turning, you only got about 5 cars at most through the intersection each way. Accept for deliveries, I wouldn’t drive there (again).
No New Yorker in their right mind drives through Times Square unless absolutely necessary. Most of us don’t even walk there. The only reason I go there is to visit Music Store Row on 48th Street but with the closing of Manny’s (a real tragedy), that will soon be a thing of the past.
The irony here is that Times Square has become a large outdoor mall, that most suburban of inventions. Those of you who rail against us New Yorkers wouldn’t allow cars in your local mall, would you?
An underground delivery tunnel? Have you ever looked in one of those holes that Con Ed digs? Where in hell are you going to find enough space for a tunnel large enough to drive a truck through? There are gas lines, high-pressure steam lines, water lines, sewer lines, cable and phone lines and, finally subway lines. Good luck finding the room.
bomberpete, my family and I vacationed in NYC a couple of years ago. You are correct in saying there is way too much traffic in the downtown area. But NYC is a rare case here in the USA. Most people don’t live in high density urban enviroments.
And I wasn’t mentioning the average urban citizen, but the “rich and famous” who constantly harp about more people needing to live closer together and take public transportation. All while living in huge estates and taking the most inefficient transportation possible. Making sure they don’t come in contact with us.
moedaman :
May 27th, 2009 at 8:40 am
bomberpete, my family and I vacationed in NYC a couple of years ago. You are correct in saying there is way too much traffic in the downtown area. But NYC is a rare case here in the USA. Most people don’t live in high density urban environments.
Thank you moedaman. Yes, NYC is a rare case. The only point I really care about getting across is that criticizing the Times Square solution based on other dense urban environments isn’t valid.
And I wasn’t mentioning the average urban citizen, but the “rich and famous” who constantly harp about more people needing to live closer together and take public transportation. All while living in huge estates and taking the most inefficient transportation possible. Making sure they don’t come in contact with us.
I understand. After all, the term “limosine liberal” was coined in NYC. Thank you for acknowledging that NYC isn’t all millionaires like others seem to think. I agree that it happens. But isn’t that true about some rich people everywhere? Especially — and getting to the heart of TTAC is all about — auto executives who live(d) in places like Grosse Pointe? Their myopia – and THANK YOU, Brock Yates — is what got US (as in US tax payers) into this mess.
Look, it’s fair to criticize urban planners for the things they don’t take into account. However, it isn’t fair to characterize them as out-of-touch elitists imposing their anti-auto will when what they’re really doing is tackling a serious issue with real actions. In Times Square, motor vehicles are a major contribution to the area’s congestion problem. Several of the Best and Brightest — all car enthusiasts, I assume — acknowledge that. Any effective solution has to reduce the impact motor vehicles have. At the same time, it isn’t realistic for anyone to think this is a solution that will help congestion in Butte, Montana, Lincoln, Nebraska or even Los Angeles.
If New Yorkers want this for Times Sqaure, more power to them.
I am a little baffled though – haven’t they figured out that traffic comes with living in a city? That’s why it’s called a…city.
I’d be more worried if there WEREN’T lots of traffic in Times Square. It shows that lots of people want to be in Manhattan. I’m sure that Detroit or Cleveland would LOVE to have this problem.
What’s next? Are they going to complain about all of those tall buildings in Manhattan…?
Dear Lord, please let them put lotsa cops all over these places.
A repeat of 70’s TSQ during the current econ climate would NOT be cool.