Detroit apologists—who sincerely believe that GM was headed for turnaround town when gas prices ascended and the worldwide economic tsunami hit—will take pleasure in the fact that Toyota reckons it’ll spill $8.6 billion worth of red ink on the corporate carpet. No doubt, the Japanese automaker is “struggling” to cope with the loss of one million units from their worldwide balance sheet. During the January to March Japanese fourth quarter, the formerly unassailable automaker got assailed but good, losing $6.9 billion. As we’ve reported previously, the US and Japanese markets are ToMoCo’s big hole, switching from huge profits to equally enormous losses without much of anything in between. As Automotive News [sub] reports, the head of the ailing automaker had a completely different response to the news of his employer’s sinking fortunes than, say, anyone who works for GM. [GM cheat sheet: the secret word is “accountability”.] “Of course the external environment doesn’t help,” Toyota president Katsuaki Watanabe told reporters. “But we were lacking in the scope and speed of dealing with various problems and issues, and for that I am sorry.” So . . . now what?
To return to profit, Toyota must sell more cars or cut costs further, Watanabe said. But he predicted the US market would be around 10 million vehicles industry-wide at best this year, down from 13.2 million in 2008 and 16.2 million the previous year.
Toyota bashers may wish to note the CEO’s hint that de-contenting may be a thing of the present (dinging the brand’s rep for reliability and value-for-money, eventually). But notice the primacy of “sell more cars” in Watanabe’s recipe for a return to greatness. So far, Toyota hasn’t matched Motown’s incentives. What’s the bet someone at Toyota’s keeping a very close eye on the relationship between cost and price and sales and profit? In other words, what they lose in cost, they’ll make up in volume.
I have to admit, I’m starting to worry for Toyota.
Judging from the press releases, they acknowledge that they are in trouble, but what, realistically, are they doing to rectify the situation?
It’s all very well saying you’re sorry, but what are you doing to make sure it doesn’t happen again?
I have to admit, that the European Toyotas are still pretty competitive and de-contenting isn’t that rife.
But Europe isn’t one of Toyota’s major markets…..
These are hard times.
But Toyota’s market cap is still $122B, and they still have $22B in the bank, with revenue over $200B. And so far as I’ve heard, they are not cutting product development programs. Their situation is not comparable to GM’s.
there’s nothing they can do except downsize operations
the reality is the demand is gone and most likely will never return to what it used to be
sorry but the party is over… only the most deluded will expect demand to ever reach what it was in the foreseeable future
Tomoco could go all out with incentives, rebates and 0% loans but to do so would further depress what is left of the US automakers. It would work but leave a bad impression. The UAW and the other apologists would then start rambling about unfair trade practices, the evil Japanese committing an economic Pearl Harbor against the US right when things are darkest. I still hear talk about how tariffs and unfair trade caused all this, despite the glaring fact most Japanese cars sold here are built in the US. Never mentioned is our own government’s intervention in the car and truck markets.
But Toyota will still press on with product development and they are quite good at that. A plug in Prius will kill the volt once and for all, if tuners get to work on the same car Tesla will be toast.
Toyota and the rest got to where they are one customer at a time. While domestics were busy finding ways to maximize the take from customers today, they were carefully planning for the future. Sure, making the most every quarter is important, but in this situation they are out of ammo and ideas. Now the other side has their day.
Judging from the press releases, they acknowledge that they are in trouble, but what, realistically, are they doing to rectify the situation?
I don’t think they can do much. They’re a huge company, and they have to sell in volume to meet costs. If the sales aren’t there, the only choice is to contract.
Their hope, truly, is to ride out the worst of it and be in a better position at the end. In this way, they’re probably much healthier than most of their competition; they have a bigger pile of cash to feed product development and marketing, and aren’t having to make the painful and problematic cuts that GM has (cancelling cars, selling divisions, ceding markets).
If one or more smaller competitors fail, well, then so much the better for them, in the long run. They’d probably benefit from the dramatic weakening or outright collapse Mitsubishi, Chrysler and/or one or more of the smaller European or Asian marques (PSA-Citroen, Volvo, Ssang-Yong, perhaps on the VW’s extraneous brands like SEAT or Skoda).
Yes, SpeedRacerrrr
Everything you said is true, but GM’s decline started somewhere. Once you tip over the top of the hill, your descent picks up speed on the way down.
Toyota has multiple problems right now in the United States. The first problem is their cars are really boring. The second problem is that other makers have caught up to them in quality.
The third problem is that they don’t know how to market the cars they have. The only Toyota that I can recall any commercials for in the past 6 months is the Venza. I don’t remember seeing any ads for the Matrix when it was revised.
(I personally think the Venza is one of the ugliest cars sold today.)
SpeedRacerrrrr, does Toyota only have 22 Billion in the bank?
I think their prediction of a 8.6 billion loss for the next year is overly optimistic. If they just lost 6.8 in one quarter, I don’t see changes taking place fast enough to stem the bleeding that fast, unless the auto market turns around much quicker than most experts think.
I would be worried about them hitting the “keeping the lights on” financial position, as is often talked about with Ford’s cash situation when they get down to 10B.
Hopefully, they’ll have an easier chance of raising funds than other companies, but the longer the wait, the harder it will get. If they’re smart, they should start raising funds now while their bond rating is still good.
Cutting the least profitable models seems like the logical thing to do. Anything with a low price that doesn’t sell in large volumes would be a good candidate for culling.
Wasn’t it a year or so ago when some of the B&B started suggesting a Toyota Death Watch series? At the time it seemed preposterous, but Toyota has been doing more wrong in the past decade then it has done right.
Cheapened the product. Repeatedly.
Porked out each new version of its vehicles to the point of absurdity.
Reduced reliability enough to get dinged by CR.
Brand proliferated for no good reason (Scion).
Too many models, especially slow selling niche models.
Got sloppy about platform proliferation.
Legendarily arrogant PITA dealers.
Spent lavish sums of money on fancy factories ($2B Texas Truck Plant).
Failed to counter strengthening foreign competition (Hyundai).
In many ways this sounds like the moves which started GM’s long decline.
Even a news bit about Toyota begins with the obligatory kick to GM’s kidney.
It’s good to see Toyota on the losing end of the financial equation, for a change. IMO, they’ve been on the losing end of the product equation for-….well….-ever.
The reasons why Toyota is in trouble now (in trouble, not totally fucked up like GM) are the quality improvements of their competitors and the lack of appealing and innovation in their cars. When you combine this with a pricing that is generally over their competitors, the consumer will pick a Nissan/Hyundai/Honda/Ford over a Toyota. So Toyota is really in trouble.
But the thing is, they know they are in trouble, and they are trying to find a solution (within the company, not lobbying somebody). Saying “sorry” is not going to solve the mess, but it goes a long, long way to put everybody to work in a real solution.
Anything with a low price that doesn’t sell in large volumes would be a good candidate for culling.
I don’t think they have much that meets that criteria, unless you’re talking about killing Scion (which would admittedly have some merit; it’s lost it’s way) or one of the trucks. Most of what they sell at a low price sells in volume (Corolla) and/or fills a niche (Prius, Yaris) and/or will probably get aged out in the next model cycle (FJ, probably one or more SUVs and crossovers). There’s no Compass or Astra or Solstice in Toyota’s lineups in Europe or North America.
The exception is the JDM market, where there’s lots of overlap. The problem is that said overlap has to exist because that market is hypercompetitive. If they scale back, they’ll get eaten alive by competitors who don’t.
“But we were lacking in the scope and speed of dealing with various problems and issues, and for that I am sorry.”
ahhhhh, the sweet sound of responsibility. This is what you get when you don’t overpay for egomaniacs. Spending less can get you more when every years salary dosen’t translate into instant “fuck you” money.
The American market will bounce back somewhat, but from what’s been reported here the Japanese market may be terminal. Is there any indication that emerging markets like China and India might make up the difference in the short- to medium-term?
@ MattVA “does Toyota only have 22 Billion in the bank?”
Indeed, their financial position has worsened dramatically over the last 6 months. My point was only that Toyota is not in the same place as GM, not that Toyota is in a happy place.
A key difference between the two companies, in my experience, is that Toyota has much better management controls, so that management has a much clearer view of their financial position and technical capabilities. This gives them a better chance to make the right corrections early enough.
@ Conslaw and Raskolnikov
“The first problem is their cars are really boring.”
“they’ve been on the losing end of the product equation”
This has been true since Toyota first started selling cars in the US (and probably before!). Except for a very few exceptions, Toyota’s products have always missed the emotional appeal. But that doesn’t matter in the larger marketplace. In a country full of mundane products, most people only care about basic durability, quality and reliability, with some basic function thrown in (will it haul all my stuff?).
Off topic but I can’t resist.
“so now what” the headliner excerpt asks?
This is Japan! Hari Kari / sepuku ! I do remember disgraced public figures doing that in Japan in my lifetime.
No such thing as a personal sense of disgrace and responsibility in our culture anymore it seems.
OK, I am starting to get confused with some of these numbers:
So January through march is Japan’s 4th quarter. They lost 7.7 billion in that quarter. That fiscal year, Toyota lost 4.4 billion. (canceling out earlier profits
The title of this article is “Toyota Expects to Lose $8.6 Billion in Q2” Is that Japanese fiscal-calender year Q2? (July-September) Or is it calender Q2 (April – June)?
And Toyota predicted a loss of $5.8 billion for the upcoming year. Combine that with the expected loss of $8.6B in some quarter this upcoming fiscal year, they are expecting to turn a combined profit of $3.1B the other 3 quarters?
These numbers don’t seem to be adding up.
EDIT: I just looked at a press release. The 8.6 billion loss in the headline refers to all of the next fiscal year. Not a single quarter.
First, the headline should read “…$8.6 billion in next fiscal year.” Raskolnikov – good observation. Other media outlets are doing the same thing. A $7.7 billion quarterly loss – with no significant special charges – should demand more scrutiny. With revenue drops of only 22%, Toyota swung from a $23 billion profit to a $4.4 billion loss in one year – once again, with no substantial special charges. I’m not the sharpest accounting tool in the shed, but when I look at Toyota’s own report, I see things like long term debt going up $3.2 billion to over $63 billion and I see proceeds from sales and maturity of marketable securities and security investments of $14.75 billion for the year and I wonder just what Toyota’s cash burn rate was for the last quarter and year. With the yen trading at the more realistic rates of today as opposed to the aritficially low 120s of years gone by, Toyota’s North American and European business model is broken. How can you praise Toyota’s approach when they refuse to close any plants or product lines? Does everyone (anyone?) believe they will sell 10 million vehicles in the near or semi-distant future?
Nary a beancounter to be had in the whole B&B, I guess…..except your ‘umble servant, here.
How many yen would anyone care to bet me that, with this much of a loss, ToMoCo accountants accrued as much “bad news” as possible into this Titanic of a quarter, so that next quarter, they can beat expectations, thus claiming a turnaround.
It is what I would’ve done….
John Horner :
Wasn’t it a year or so ago when some of the B&B started suggesting a Toyota Death Watch series? At the time it seemed preposterous, but Toyota has been doing more wrong in the past decade then it has done right.
Cheapened the product. Repeatedly.
Failed to counter strengthening foreign competition (Hyundai).
In many ways this sounds like the moves which started GM’s long decline.
I may have been between the ones that suggested that. And I stand by that and go a step further as have said before many times: Toyota is the new GM.
And will follow GM’s fate because they made some of the same mistakes. Being arrogant the 1st one.
I left the 2 items I think mark their decline.
will take pleasure in the fact that Toyota reckons it’ll spill $8.6 billion worth of red ink on the corporate carpet
Of course I’m taking pleasure… the mask is finally falling: quality, product, losses. But I’m not running to masturbate about this.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE just let Toyota f*cking die! They’ve been making boring cars for decades now, and even Scion is a failure. Euthanize Toyota and let them go not-so-quietly into the night. Please?!?!?
Mark MacInnis :
Nary a beancounter to be had in the whole B&B, I guess…..except your ‘umble servant, here.
How many yen would anyone care to bet me that, with this much of a loss, ToMoCo accountants accrued as much “bad news” as possible into this Titanic of a quarter, so that next quarter, they can beat expectations, thus claiming a turnaround.
It is what I would’ve done….
Nice, but doesn’t that strategy have any possibility of biting you in the ass if you lose money again?
Because in the current climate… it’s more likely they will have loss than profit.
Honest question, no bashing
Toyota builds bland, reliable cars and trucks because that’s what the majority of their customers want, at least according to the all-important wallet vote – excitement doesn’t pay the bills any more. The twin-turbo Supra could hardly be considered boring, but the price climbed steeply every year to near-supercar levels and guess what, no one wanted it that bad, so bye-bye excitement. A graph of 7th-Gen Celica GTS sales starts small in 2000 and plummets to near-zero in less than five years. No surprise that it’s gone. What’s left in the lineup look and drive like soap bars on wheels, but at least they are selling what they are building. My next car might be a Genesis…I like Toyota but they don’t build anything I want any more.
It is also nice to have a “Jobs Bank” for the laid off employees to be paid for “by the Japanese government”. How nice!
http://blog.mlive.com/autoblog/2008/12/toyota_also_has_a_jobs_bank_of.html
Many companies are posting huge losses. Even folks like Exxon are having a hard time, relatively speaking, this year.
So this is not unexpected.
And comparing to GM? GM’s had problems, HUGE problems, for many many years. Overall Toyota has kicked their butt soundly and repeatedly from a business standpoint.
Disclaimer: I own a Toyota, but it will probably be my last, due to the aforementioned asshat dealers. I got rid of my last GM auto over 20 years ago and never looked back.
“I don’t think they have much that meets that criteria ….”
Here is my list of models Toyota could kill off which as a group probably amount to less than 20% of Toyota’s US sales volume:
Tundra
Highlander
4Runner
FJ Cruiser
Sequoia
Camry Solara
Venza
xB
tC
xD
Almost every Lexus except the ES and LS
That is a lot of models which are likely not contributing profits.
I don’t think they have much that meets that criteria
Regardless of whatever they are, the weakest 10% of the lineup could probably be cut, to the benefit of the company. The weakest products probably produce little or no profit, and the effort would be better spent persuading most of those buyers to choose a different Toyota family product.
How many yen would anyone care to bet me that, with this much of a loss, ToMoCo accountants accrued as much “bad news” as possible into this Titanic of a quarter, so that next quarter, they can beat expectations, thus claiming a turnaround.
I wouldn’t take that bet, you’re probably right. That’s a common tactic for public companies.
It is much easier to fight to the top than to stay there.
I think Toyota does have big company syndrome. No question they still do a lot right, but we’ve seen plenty of troubling mis-steps in the last couple of years. I knew they were headed down the wrong path when I checked out the cutaway Tundra chassis at NAIAS. It simply was not class competetive and the sales results have reflected that.
They also made some GM-esq moves, such as buying Subaru, Isuzu, starting Scion, not to mention the overlapping model in every niche for everyone strategy they’ve adopted. To succeed, Toyota may have to retrench and refocus on their core products and brands, as we’ve already seen what the volume for market share maintenance plan can do to residual values and transaction prices.
Farewell Toyota…you won’t be missed.
Regardless of whatever they are, the weakest 10% of the lineup could probably be cut, to the benefit of the company. The weakest products probably produce little or no profit, and the effort would be better spent persuading most of those buyers to choose a different Toyota family product.
I think we need to define “weakest” before we go much further on this. Do you mean weak as in the Yaris, Sienna or IS, which don’t sell much but fill needed spots in the lineup, weak like the Avalon or FJ, which are product in search of customers, weak like the GX, Solara, Sequioa or SC, which don’t sell but don’t cost much and are just running down the clock?
If I were to take the knife, I’d be hard pressed to figure out what to cut. The obviously redundant models are either at their natural end of life and don’t cost much, or so cheap that they’re worth it; the bad sellers are often strategically important.
If I were to take the knife, I’d be hard pressed to figure out what to cut.
If you worked at the company, it wouldn’t be difficult. You’d have the data and could make a decision.
I think we need to define “weakest” before we go much further on this.
Not really. Not everything in the lineup is going to be equally good. If you had the information, it would probably be very obvious which ones were relative dogs.
Most likely, they’re low volume products that sell at low prices, low volume products that sell at high prices that don’t serve their brands very well otherwise (no halo value), or niche products in dying niches with no halo.
Whatever the worst 10% are, cut them, and focus your efforts on building the remaining 90%. That’s a generic refocusing strategy that could work for just about everyone, no matter what business you’re in.
Whatever the worst 10% are, cut them, and focus your efforts on building the remaining 90%. That’s a generic refocusing strategy that could work for just about everyone, no matter what business you’re in.
I don’t disagree with you on this, but I’m trying to think up practical examples in Toyota’s particular case. Their lineup is more rational than people give them credit for, and just chopping based on cost is risky if a model has strategic importance, or would be more trouble to cut prematurely than simply allow to whither at the end of their natural cycle.
There’s a knee-jerk suggestion to axe the Venza, Tundra and/or some of the other trucks and trucklets. I don’t know if it’s worth doing when these models make Toyota money in better times and if they plan to be in a healthy position vis a vis their competitors.
I’m trying to think up practical examples in Toyota’s particular case. Their lineup is more rational than people give them credit for
The 10% don’t have to be horrible, just the 10% that isn’t as good as the rest and that lack potential.
Without putting much thought into it, my initial reaction would probably involve the xD, SC and the FJ. Get the xD crowd into the Matrix, the SC buyers into a different Lexus and the FJ group into a different SUV or truck thing.
The idea here is to impose some discipline on the organization, forcing them to conserve resources and do more with what they already have. If they can’t figure out how to sell Matrixes, Corollas, etc. to most of the would-be xD buyers, then they’re not doing a good job.
“…I am sorry.”
Wow. The closest thing to that coming from American “leaders” — in government and industry — is “mistakes were made.”
Probably cars they could cut would be the matrix, solara venza. With trucks ,crusier, higlander & four runner.
Remember GM had 17 billion in the bank when they imploded. Toyota had 22B at last count. Given their sheer size their monthly capital expense to keep the lights on is nearly identical to what GM’s is (10B) Subtract their 7.7 from 22 and subtract another 2.15 per quarter 2010 projected and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out they better start raising debt capital toot sweet. (not to mention they were AAA rated at late last year and just got hit again down to AA, the ride from AA to CCC is pretty short) Given their fixed overhead costs are similar to GM it stands to reason Japan Inc knows all the sudden their in deep kimshee and unless a miracle occurs in auto sales in the next few quarters (not likley) or the price of fuel goes through the roof (next year yes, this year not so much) and in a big way the shit is going to hit the fan. Because they ain’t gonna be able to cut fast enough which is exactly what happened to GM.
Don’t think for a minute that China/Korea Inc is going to bail them out by buying their cars in droves becaust those guys still despise the Japanese because of the war.
Its also not helping that they have this Tacoma/Tundra frame rust fiasco and FJ cruiser body structure crack disaster hanging over them
Better start your death watch series now robert or you might not make it to 50.
Another note. Heres the issue with just cutting car models. Even if you stop making it your still on the hook for millions of dollars in amoritized tooling cost. Just because a manufacturer stops making a model that isn’t selling the major cost is still there. Only about 10% of the real cost is saved which is the assembly labor. Most manufacturers also sign volume contracts on parts when a model’s production commences so even if you stop making it you can be on the hook for the parts volume projected in the contract whether you build it or not. This is the reason many makers keep building a turd that didn’t go over in the market as its less loss to just suck it up and shove it through than to just turn the production of a model off.
Heres the issue with just cutting car models. Even if you stop making it your still on the hook for millions of dollars in amoritized tooling cost. Just because a manufacturer stops making a model that isn’t selling the major cost is still there. Only about 10% of the real cost is saved which is the assembly labor. Most manufacturers also sign volume contracts on parts when a model’s production commences so even if you stop making it you can be on the hook for the parts volume projected in the contract whether you build it or not.
This is straight out of the GM playbook.
It is also a concise summary of why they are losing money. They actually believe this, and make decisions based upon this outlook, when it is an optimal way to ensure failure.
This is exactly Toyota’s delimma. It’s deja VU at its finest. GM’s found Jesus but its gonna take bankruptcy to fix it. Toyota’s turn is comming, and its gonna be sooner than you think.
The key difference between Toyota and the Big 3, at least in North America, is Toyota can decide to lay off the 15 or 20% of their workfore that represent the fattest, laziest, least productive, employees at any time.
For the Big 3, they can’t fire or lay off anyone without an epic struggle.
It’s a lot easier to restructure when you can say, from the ranks of the VPs to the Directors to the Managers on down to the rank and file, for all divisions, let the bottom 20% go.
JMO
that helps but it does nothing for fixed costs. Variable costs yes,(the 10%) fixed no,(the 90%) which is All automakers achilles heal at this particular moment.
If an assembly plant isn’t running 89% capacity or better its a smoking hole with thousand dollar bills being fed into it at an alarming rate. You could cut every body in an assembly plant and it don’t amount to cost savings Jack! The 90% fixed overhead costs for the particular model being made there is going to eat you alive. It does not care if your Domestic Inc or Japan Inc. It doesn’t discriminate.
Plant labor is an easy target and it makes great headlines but thats not the major issue when up runtime is in the tolite.
Toyota can decide to lay off the 15 or 20% of their workfore that represent the fattest, laziest, least productive, employees at any time.
Toyota is not exactly known for having many layoffs. Toyota’s model for profitability is based upon selling cars for more than it costs to make them, not by keeping workers at home.
This is exactly Toyota’s delimma.
It really isn’t. Their main challenge is to reduce the size of the business and/or take more sales from the competition.
The operating cash flows are positive, and they’re building cash reserves. An economic recovery could lift a company like that. An economic recovery alone wouldn’t be nearly enough for General Motors or Chrysler — both of them need to be downsized and completely reinvented.
The strategy of making huge mistakes, then continuing to make them because they’ve already been paid for, is classic Detroit thinking, and the cause of a lot of problems. That is not a smart way to run a business.
This is exactly Toyota’s delimma.
Their main challenge is to reduce the size of the business
Which is Fixed Overhead
So Aparrently we agree
There building cash reserves
The crux of this article implied the opposite, or did I read it wrong
The strategy of making huge mistakes, then continuing to make them because they’ve already been paid for, is classic Detroit thinking, and the cause of a lot of problems. That is not a smart way to run a business.
We’ll see how long they keep making vehicles tha fell off the sales cliff.
I highly doubt that the Tundra or the T100 before it have ever been profitable. Toyota has dumped many billions of dollars into trying to become a force in the US full sized pickup truck market and is still at best a distant #4.
Tundra moved 6,156 units this April. Ford sold just under 29k F-series trucks while Chevy/GMC did about 35k units combined. Even Dodge outsold Toyota by almost three-to-one. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/05/april-2009-top-10-truck-sales.html
Toyota’s Tundra effort only looks good compared to the dead-in-the-water Nissan Titan, which has already been scheduled for culling.
Someone at Toyota needs to admit that the many billions of dollars spent chasing the US full sized truck market have been wasted.
Tundra is not even competitive in the full size truck arena. Silverado/Sierra and F series dominate the segment and continue to do so. Dodge Ram also kicks Toyota arse. Tundra lags behind light years in styling and practicality. Rust problems also cannot help. A true “miss” for Toyota.
JMO
that helps but it does nothing for fixed costs. Variable costs yes,(the 10%) fixed no,(the 90%) which is All automakers achilles heal at this particular moment.
Where and how to you get this split? Toyota’s fixed costs (rent, property taxes, electricity) make up 90% of their costs, while variable costs (labor, tires, transmissions, and every other little bit that goes into the car, machinery depreciation, etc, etc.) constitute 10%?
To make it out of this new economic model that is here to stay for a while, they need to cut labor and factories. Simple but not easy.
jmo :
May 8th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
” Toyota can decide to lay off the 15 or 20% of their workforce that represent the fattest, laziest, least productive, employees at any time.”
Can’t say how things will go at Toyota, but my experiences with large American automotive corporations is that the “fattest, laziest, least productive, employees” are all MBAs in middle management – the very ones tasked to make the decisions about who gets cut. The hammer (for white collar employees) then falls heavily on engineering and support staff, B/M writers, manufacturing engineers, etc. Basically all the productive peaple essential to the operation and future of the company are cut, while those brave folks who attend meetings and prepare reports about about the work others are actually doing are kept on. Repeat a few dozen times and you have GM.
If, I say if, you are a betting man, the best thing now to do is dump Toyota stocks while they are in the mid $70’s. GM’s new contract with the UAW will cut into Toyota’s market share in due time because the assembly workers there are only making $14.00 bucks per hour and also the fact that robots are huge at GM factories now. Toyota will NOT be able match GM’s revenues in the future. GM went through the same-o, same-o as Toyota for the last 10 years and now it is Toyota/Honda/Nissan’s turn.
To John Honer…….not to mention that Japan is NOW funding a “Jobs Bank” for Toyota/Honda and Nissan. What a crock!
http://blog.mlive.com/autoblog/2008/12/toyota_also_has_a_jobs_bank_of.html
I know I’m a little late on the comment but after a visit to a Toyota dealer trying to buy a car, I learned that the need to sale more cars is not as important as the need to rob me from my money! they offered me $7000 for my trade that is a 2006 Mazda 3S hatch with remaining 14 month and 10k miles factory warranty, that after telling me the rebate or cash back on the new car is no longer available!? the process took 90 min! wait, wait, wait….
On that same day I visited a Honda dealer that gave me $10k for my car and the process was 15 min!