We were given the heads-up on the cashforclunkersheadquarters.com website by the Department of Transportation (DOT). The DOT was not well pleased with the site’s assumption of governmental authority re: Uncle Sam’s Cash for Clunkers or CARS program (as we reported). This email arrived just arrived from Mrs. Name Redacted, reprinted here without editing. I’ve emailed Mrs. NR to request the suggested interview.
Meanwhile, it should be noted that there is not now—nor was there at the time of the original post’s publication—an email contact button on the site. Nor does the “Automotive Consumers Council” (listed as a copyright at the bottom) have any bona fides that I can find, save for a url that redirects to the cashforclunkersheadquarters.com website. This is also the first mention of T10 marketing I’ve encountered (not listed on either site). Nor is there any mention of her husband’s name on T10‘s website. With all that in mind . . .
I just read your comments about my husbands website, CashForClunkersheadquarters.com. I am shocked by the accusations that this site is a scam. CBS was also misled by your article and after investigating the facts they removed my husbands websites from their story because it was false. This site was built by my husbands automotive marketing company (T10) who lobbied the bill directly with one of the senators who co-authored it. The site was built for many reasons and i am proud of my husband for all of them. First, he promoted the bill to help it get passed. He promoted the concept of dealers getting involved more by creating their own private cash for clunkers programs to consumers(thus the name headquarters) and he created a site to help consumers find dealers who were willing to give prices online and some who would offer aggressive incentives above and beyond what the government was offering to make it more attractive for consumers to upgrade into more fuel efficient vehicles. Dealers loved his idea because it helped consumers and it provided a differenti ator for the retailer in the market. They also help retailers educate consumers in their market who qualify for the program and they connect consumers who want to shop online with dealers who give them the ability to get quotes from the comfort of their home rather than having to drive around and waiste time and gas. Furthermore, many of the consumers who have clunkers will have a hard time qualifying for financing. When the consumer qualified for the program and has high hopes for a new car but then does not qualify for financing there will often be a negative backlash against the program and their local dealer. To avoid wasting consumers time and to give dealers extra time to try to get consumers approved it is a smart strategy to help customers get pre-approved for financing. Since the dealer will have more time to shop the finance application to multiple banks by getting an application online in advance it will help increase approval rates, sales, customer satisfaction a nd dealer satisfaction with the program. For this reason every major manufacturer, autogroup, 3rd party sites like edmunds and kbb, offer finance applications to provide this vital service to consumers who prefer to get as much done in advance as possible. So would it be fair to accuse these reputable organizations of building “phishing sites” and label them “scams” because every one of thier credit applications gathers social security numbers. I think you probably realize by now that it would be irresponsible to make these types of slanderish claims, especially without taking the time to investigate the facts. Could you have sent a message directly to the my husband through the website before calling them scammers… just like i am doing through this form? Did you do that? Do you think it is fair to people who have dedicated their lives to building a reputation based on hard work and doing the right thing to spread innacurate rumors that they are scammers because they inclu de a credit application service for consumers like 99% of the automotive webistes in the industry? Did you ever take time to read the published privacy policy and visitor agreement on the site, which is in complete compliance with all federal laws for sites like this? As for the look and feel of the website – i know the people who built the website and the young talented graphic artist had alot of fun creating a look and feel that reflected a government program with flags, red, white and blue because he was promoting a government program weeks before the NHTSA had anything, which is why so many people relied on these 2 well designed sites. His mistake is that he did not forecast that people would assume that his intentions were to illegally capture customers information to use for illicit purposes. After looking at the logo i personally think he probably got over-zealous with the whole government stimulus look, but his intentions were not what has been suggested here. Actual ly, after hearing from the NHTSA that the logo made it appear that the website was the official government website, they took down the logo and posted a clearly visible notice to visitors to go to the official cars website. Should we penalize entreprenuers for providing a service to the consumers, industry and congress because these sites were not controlled by the government. I don’t understand why the government would not contact my husband before making these claims. I know he reached out to them weeks before the bill was passed to offer them his help and to make sure he was in line with their communication plan. What is funny is that this bill almost died due to one vote that in the last minute came through, possibly as a result of the direct lobbying of the leaders behind CFCHqtrs.com. While there are alot of people who have the comfort of oppinion, not one was willing to endure the discomfort of reaching out to find the facts. I believe the only ethical thing to do in this case, since the irresponsible slanders have already cost these companies their reputation with some people and organizations, is to remove these irroneous claims and issue a retraction. If your goal is to really seek and speak the truth you will do the right thing. If not, the name of this site is a “scam” as you suggested about these valuable consumer information sites. I would have said all of the above in your blog but the functionality did not allow me to register. Should i claim your site is a “scam”? How would that make you feel? After watching my husband slave to support this bill and to help consumers and retailers take advantage of the opportunity i am deeply saddened by seeing what your blog did to his spirit. Now i am glad i am sharing this personally because i do not like to debate in public, i prefer to encourage people who hopefully have good intentions to do the right thing and public arguments can sometimes make that more dificult. I am sure that you had the right intention when you wrote what you wrote and i am glad you want to help people see the truth. I hope you live that out by doing what is possible at this stage, even though it is mostly too late and too much damage has been done, to stand up for the truth. I suggest you speak with my husband about this. He is the man you slandered. I hope you take this down and replace it with an article with the TRUTH in its place since this article continues to slander his good name. I pray his son does not google him and find this about his father who has dedicated his life to making a fair and honest living for me and our 4 children. I am sorry if i came on too strong but he is my husband and i don’t know any man who has a stronger character than him. I hope you do the right thing and i hope no one ever does to your spouse what has been done to mine.
Google cache of what the site looked like two days ago. If this is such an up-and-up organization, why did they change the site after scrutiny?
http://74.125.95.132/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1ACAW_ENUS306&=&q=cache%3ACashforclunkersheadquarters.com&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=
Could I buy a paragraph, Alex?
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
Hamlet (III, ii, 239)
Whoa, now there is a well written wall of text! Offer the lady a job, RF.
I won’t be too hard on the lack of paragraphs, though. I don’t know about the contact form on this website, but I know there are many out there that ignore “hard returns” (sorry, I learned touch typing on an electric typewriter). I’ve written stuff using these contact forms that wiped out all attempts to format a legible paragraph.
Good catch, Jeff Puthuff.
The site was a scam; now it’s just pointless.
Two words: Spell Checker
That out of the way let’s just say if the DOT did not find the site appropriate then maybe that’s one strike.
Who asked her husband to get involved between the consumer and the stealers, er I mean dealers? We have enough middle men thank you and don’t need another. Strike two.
If this is an attempt to redeem the image of the company or web site it is not working. I would pass on an interview unless it has some comedic value. Strike three and you’re out.
I’ll bet she can talk for that long without taking a breath.
Dear Ms. Redacted,
A few comments for you to mull before penning your next incoherent screed:
First, paragraphs. The Founding Fathers invented them for a reason, and as Americans it’s our duty to use them.
Second, sending your wife out to confront your adversaries is a half-step above sending your mom out to yell at the neighborhood bully. Why can’t a guy who purports to be an educator of the consumer tell us in his own words why he’s not a crook? (And maybe use paragraphs!)
Third, what do the Slanderish have to do with all of this? They don’t even drive cars.
So what is T10Marketing.com? Try to go to that site and it is an open domain with a generic boiler plate. If the company (T10 Marketing) is real, it would have more information than none. So an overnight grand schemer looking for an easy buck in ad revenue and contact information sales.
Like crush157 said, the Cash For Clunkers site is collecting personal information from consumers under the guise of providing useful information.
Notice that there is NO statement of privacy regarding what they intend to do with the collected information…besides reselling it for profit. I guess that’s all T10 Marketing does.
Mrs. Redacted is at best naive in believing her husband’s good intentions for consumers. A reputable site would at least disclose what they are really doing, if anything, with collected information.
“I’ll bet she can talk for that long without taking a breath.”
It is a power that comes to women when they eat their own wedding cake.
@Jeff Puthuff, lol busted.
According to the Penn & Teller show you can call anyone an asshole without being held liable for defamation. Seems applicable here.
Apparently C4C can seem like an even worse idea than it did yesterday.
Heh, I love Penn & Teller’s show! Have you seen this season’s premiere? If not, I recommend you not eat anything while watching.
Did a bit more digging. C4CHQ.com is hosted in Wayne, PA on a domain that resolves to prefora.net. A reverse IP search reveals: consumerassistancetorecycleandsaveprogram.org. Get it? CARS program dot org. And you thought theruthaboutcars was a long domain name!
It resolves to the same HTML page as C4CHQ. As does automotiveconsumercouncil.org/. Us geeks normally associate .org registrations as belonging to non-profit organizations, though anyone is allowed to register them.
She needs a spiel checker vice a spell checker
Well, I tried to read that painfully long, unbroken email disaster, and now I’ve gone blind. Thanks a lot, TTAC.
Nice digging, Jeff! Busted!
Truth is an absolute defense in slander cases.
crush157 nailed it, too. From the “Visitor Agreement”: You agree that, by submitting any Visitor-Submitted Content to us, you are granting to us a non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable and fully assignable and sub licensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, edit, reformat, create derivative works from, distribute and display that Visitor-Submitted Content throughout the world for any purpose and in any media (including for advertising or other commercial use).
Facebook tried to change their TOS to something similar resulting in a user revolt.
Worse is their privacy policy: “In addition, if you provide your Personal Information through the use of our Voucher information request form, trade in form or finance application form to obtain price quotes for vehicles and other related information, your Personal Information may be provided by us to the manufacturers of those vehicles (and/or their affiliates and agents) or other related vendors, who may use that information to contact you. Cash For Clunkers Information Network cannot control, and is not responsible for, the manner in which any of such companies or other entities use your Personal Information.” [Emphasis added.]
IANAL, but this is saying we will provide (sell) your information to others. But if you opt out, that opt out affects only C4CHQ, not the entities to whom we sold your info.
This thing is like an onion: the more layers you peel off, the more it stinks.
Despite the visitor agreement legalese (which could have been purloined from other sites) the good folks at cashforclunkerheadquarters need a good lawyer to keep them out of hot water.
By their own admission, “before the government website was live, thousands of consumers visited many of our websites and some thought that CashForClunkersHeadquarters.com was the official government website. For this reason we want to make sure the public understands that our websites are not affiliated with the government, they are private websites dedicated to getting the word out about the government program. To avoid any potential confusion we have redesigned the website to have a different look and feel and have directed our visitors to go to the only official government website, http://www.Cars.gov. In addition, we believe that having the name headquarters in our name could lead people to believe that we are a government agency headquarters. For this reason we are going to use our other websites as the names that are promoted to the public so we can avoid any potential confusion.”
BS I say to the last. This quote comes from http://www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com/scam-alert.php . They are still using the URL while admitting that it “could lead people to believe that we are a government agency headquarters.”
To the “potential confusion” part I say: If I would have designed a website that could dupe people into thinking it was a government site, I would not openly admit it. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand these rights?
A reverse IP search reveals: consumerassistancetorecycleandsaveprogram.org. Get it? CARS program dot org. And you thought theruthaboutcars was a long domain name!
It resolves to the same HTML page as C4CHQ. As does automotiveconsumercouncil.org
Yes, they all resolve to the same IP (not in itself an indicator, the IP belongs to bulk hoster 1&1 Internet Inc.) and – more telling – all lead to the same http://www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com website.
The registrant identity behind http://www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com and automotiveconsumercouncil.org has been carefully hidden. The registrant behind AUTOMOTIVECONSUMERCOUNCIL.ORG is available on-line.
Domain ID:D156293251-LROR
Domain Name:AUTOMOTIVECONSUMERCOUNCIL.ORG
Created On:04-Jun-2009 00:16:20 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Jun-2009 02:04:30 UTC
Expiration Date:04-Jun-2010 00:16:20 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:CR3706328
Registrant Name:Mike Degan
Registrant Organization:TeamVelocity
Registrant Street1:22713 Commerce Center CT
Registrant Street2:Suite 160
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Sterling
Registrant State/Province:Virginia
Registrant Postal Code:20166
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.7036613350
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:mdegan@thevdrive.com
Admin ID:CR3706331
Admin Name:Mike Degan
Admin Organization:TeamVelocity
Admin Street1:22713 Commerce Center CT
Admin Street2:Suite 160
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Sterling
Admin State/Province:Virginia
Admin Postal Code:20166
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.7036613350
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:mdegan@thevdrive.com
Tech ID:CR3706330
Tech Name:Mike Degan
Tech Organization:TeamVelocity
Tech Street1:22713 Commerce Center CT
Tech Street2:Suite 160
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Sterling
Tech State/Province:Virginia
Tech Postal Code:20166
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.7036613350
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:mdegan@thevdrive.com
Name Server:NS57.1AND1.COM
Name Server:NS58.1AND1.COM
It stands to reason that the registrant of AUTOMOTIVECONSUMERCOUNCIL.ORG is somehow connected to http://www.cashforclunkersheadquarters.com and automotiveconsumercouncil.org. These “aliases” must be deliberately engineered at the DNS level.
The website is designed to look like a government website; this is not an accident.
So let me get this straight. The offending Website was made to look like a Gov’t Website but is not, it acts as an intermediary in the purchase of a car (wonder how the owner of said Website gets compensated – nobody does anything for free even if money is not paid), and it has a lot of lobbying power within our already corrupted legislative branch largely by pressure from said lobbyists.
It would be one thing if the site was purely informative but it looks to set up the transactions for potential car buyers. That is where I see the potential for possible scam artist type tactics.
Robert Schwartz is my hero.
This woman’s ramblings are an excellent example of why silence is often the best response.
Actually, after hearing from the NHTSA that the logo made it appear that the website was the official government website, they took down the logo and posted a clearly visible notice to visitors to go to the official cars website.
Someone receives an order (suggestion, hint, recommendation) from the DOT to change their ways … or else – and then they rant all over the net? Not smart. As a wise man said to me: When you step in the shit, don’t run around all over the house.
Hey, lady… You see that button just above the right Shift key? Yeah, it’s called the “Enter” key, and is used when typing to introduce a line break, and even blank lines between paragraphs.
You should look into it.
Finnegans Wake is an easier read than this lady’s email.
tl;dr
Couldn’t read it, no paragraphs. Ugh.
Kudos to RF, Jeff Puthuff, and Bertel Schmidt! TTAC rocks!
If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.
Lady.. the site is scam designed to extract personal information from people.
So why does “Mind Point Design” return one google search result? Here’s a free tip:
table {
padding:6px;
}
Funny quirk: Microsoft formatting means that if you’re looking for a new Saab to trade in your clunker towards, you’re limited to either a 9-7X, a 3-Sep or a 5-Sep. Naming cars after auspicious dates sounds downright Soviet…I wonder if they ever made a Lada 10/17?