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Auto Motor und Sport has driven VW’s “Blue Concept Sport” roadster (in concept form, limited to 100 km/h), and praise its agility, steering precision and weight distribution (48:52). Not to mention it’s near-production feel. Word is that the two-liter diesel (180 hp) convertible could go into production by 2013 at a €22k-25k price point. Building the better MR2 sounds like a good place to correct one of Toyota’s major errors: surrendering the fun.
27 Comments on “Obligatory Non-Bailout Post: VW Mid-Engine Roadster Concept Planned For 2013...”
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Maybe it’ll pave the way for a comeback of the mighty Phaeton!!
I am waiting for Hyundai to build a Miata competitor, although this is not really in the same class. Cool that it gets the diesel although we probably will not see it here in the US.
“Cool that it gets the diesel although we probably will not see it here in the US.”
We’d probably get the 2.0 TFSI gasoline engine. 200 HP stock and 250 HP with a low cost flash upgrade.
I always thought the MR2 was a cool looking car, and even considered buying one until I discovered it was only availible with a manual. If Toyota had made an automatic version they could have easily sold enough to make the platform profitable and keep it around.
The VW BlueTec roadster looks very cool, and I can only hope that if we do get it, that we get VWs awesome diesels as options as well. The US needs to get over it’s issues with diesel exhaust. Diesel is both far easier and more practical to grow as biofuel compared to ethanol, and it allows very high mpg numbers without having to resort to hybrids. Yes, there is some extra particulate output, but Europe has been exposed to that for decades and seems no more worse for wear.
That’s an S2000 price point. Good luck with that.
Re: long126mike
S2000 will end after the 2009 model year.
Whether this gets built will determine at last if VW owns Porsche or the opposite. If this gets any of the good 2.0 turbo engines it will quickly become a Boxster killer.
NulloModo:
There was an automatic two pedal version of the MR2 Spyder, although with an automated clutch and servo controlled shifter, Ferrari style, not a torque converter and planetary gears.
The MR2 left the market because it had no trunk, front or rear, the 2 seat convertible market is very small to begin with, and it only offered a 132 HP engine, not the better 190 HP+ version of the Toyota 1.8 liter I4.
I owned one, and it is an awsome car. The MR2 Spyder has a longer wheelbase than a Boxster, and a very roomy but minimalist interior.
But only so many people will buy a car with no trunk.
Note to VW, I’ll take the diesel.
S2000 will end after the 2009 model year.
Making room for the OSM?
Just checked with the wife – she’s interested…..
Hoping that this thing actually makes to NA and she’ll stop with the Saturn Sky infatuation.
no_slushbox: But only so many people will buy a car with no trunk.
Exactly.
It’s no sin to build a car with little or no trunk space; it’s just frustrating when an automaker scratches its head and wonders why not many people are lining up to buy it.
In the frenzied pace to put the Solstice into production, it’s unfortunate that this small but important detail was overlooked. Perhaps it wouldn’t have made much of a difference, but it didn’t help to dispel the perception that the production versions of the Solstice/Sky were a bit half-baked.
Okay…very half-baked.
When it comes to the Solstice/Sky, it wasn’t just the trunk space, it was the driver space. You can’t have a mass market car in the US if it doesn’t easily accommodate 6’+ 250 lbs+ drivers.
Kind of weird to see “enthusiasts” worrying about trunk space on a roadster, or needing to fit an NFL linebacker in it.
Well, as an enthusiast it’s not that I worry about trunk space or legroom…just don’t gripe when a roadster without those features is a slow seller, and is eventually discontinued.
After all, the automakers are supposed to be in business to generate a profit, despite recent events.
Well, as an enthusiast it’s not that I worry about trunk space or legroom…just don’t gripe when a sports car without those features is a slow seller, and is eventually discontinued.
You mean like the Lotus Elise? Is that a slow seller or about to be discontinued? How’s the Tesla selling? How about the Ariel Atom?
You mean like the Lotus Elise? Is that a slow seller or about to be discontinued? How’s the Tesla selling? How about the Ariel Atom?
I think you’re missing my point.
The examples you cited are purposely designed as low-volume, high-profit margin vehicles, and as such the number of units needed to break even are relatively low.
The examples we’ve been discussing are the products of high-volume manufacturers (GM and Toyota) who depend upon higher volumes, as their vehicles are sold at a lower price, with thinner profit margins.
The examples we’ve been discussing are the products of high-volume manufacturers (GM and Toyota) who depend upon higher volumes, as their vehicles are sold at a lower price, with thinner profit margins.
Well, I’m not really sure what the profit margins on those particular vehicles are, do you? And how they compare to the margins of the majors? I do know the Atom has really jacked its price recently, so apparently there’s substantial demand for that.
As for the majors, they all have their niche high-end vehicles. Chevy with the Corvette variants (topping out over $100K). Dodge had the Viper for years. Ford had the GT.
I honestly don’t think that trunk space is a deal-killer, and I don’t find the Solstice to be cramped in the driver’s seat. The difference between 5 cubic feet (Miata/S2000 size) and 2.5 cubic feet (Solstice top down size) is functionally meaningless. Both are very limited spaces.
Pretty sure the Phaeton is coming back. Supposed to anyways.
I really, really like the non-bailout posts. Chrysler/GM did not make inspiring cars in recent years (2 exceptions maybe). Their cars are boring. Their buisness is boring. Their need for tax money is annoying. I don’t enjoy reading about them. I want them to go away so I can enjoy autoblogs once again. You know the good old days, when car blogs meant excitement and joy. When you would read one then converse with like-minded gearheads at work about the latest car you were going to buy.
While I appreciate the detailed info about the American car companies, its hit a wall. Everyone liked reading about them like people enjoy watching a horrible car wreck. Except the fire is out, the ambulance is gone and now news about them just makes me depressed and bored.
More news about cool cars that people want to buy please.
I’d buy one today if it were available. I love my VW TDI, but seriously I NEVER use the back seat. It is a commuter car, period.
On the flip side though, perhaps by 2013 VW will once again be able to figure out a way to run on BioDiesel mixtures above B5. Their current crop of TDIs are using “post stream injection” to clear emissions regs, and will throw CEL errors and even go into ‘limp mode’ if high-percentage mixtures of BioDiesel are used.
So VW, get this running on B100 so the exhaust can small like french fries as Rudolph Diesel intended!
–chuck
I always wanted a 914…
I honestly don’t think that trunk space is a deal-killer, and I don’t find the Solstice to be cramped in the driver’s seat. The difference between 5 cubic feet (Miata/S2000 size) and 2.5 cubic feet (Solstice top down size) is functionally meaningless. Both are very limited spaces.
The problem with impractical cars is that you need another one, and cars are relatively expensive. This significantly limits the market.
The hurdle that every pretender in the roadster category hits is that the miata is just so good, including packaging that makes it borderline acceptable as the only ride. The solstice isn’t a terrible car, but Lutz’s problem was the miata is better in pretty much every way that matters.
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Well, I’m not really sure what the profit margins on those particular vehicles are, do you? And how they compare to the margins of the majors?
It stands to reason that a 40k+ toy has a fatter margin per unit than a 20k one, especially given that both use largely similar parts with a few product differentiators.
In the niche car market, unless you have the cachet to charge luxury prices (eg Porsche, and even for them the halos are often money losers), it’s tough to cover the many many millions dollar r&d and manufacturing to produce a world-beater.
I wonder how much of the concept car will actually remain in the production car, but I doubt we’ll get it with the TDI. Diesel and performance don’t go together in peoples’ minds as I found out today from a few friends’ reactions when I told them how much I liked the 335d.
NulloModo: The MR-S came with a manumatic called an SMT. It has a reverse, neutral and +/- gates, but the odd thing was that you had to shift it yourself, even though the actual clutch engagement and gear selection are automated. Google “MR-S SMT” if you’re curious.
scary: Yes.
MR2 comparisons? The MR2 was a speedbump in automotive history. A chicks car. The car to compare it to is VW/Porsches own 914.
And all you complaining about trunk space, the 914 had two! Use run flats and remove the spare tire and the front trunk is pretty big!
To lump it in with the s2000 is also a mistake. Honda produced a superior FWD car. I won’t take away from it. Never the less, it’s still FWD.
I hope VW builds this but I agree it will come down to who owns who (VW/Porsche).
@ Kurt,
Pretty sure the S2000 was RWD. Yep, definitely RWD.
Mike:
I could be wrong about the FWD part. We have a couple of them around here but they are garage girls and don’t come out to play except on cruise nights.
I just remember reading about them in a C&D compro a couple of years ago (I think the Vette won but if you looked at the numbers, the 911 lost by .01 sec with all the driver aides turned off). Still, my point is, they are not very comparable cars. I don’t know where you are but a used s2000 goes for more than the 25k euro price point of the VW here.
I rather like the idea of a diesel powered mid engined affordable roadster such as this. I drove a Jetta TDI last night and was sold on diesel power right off the bat. Hopefully VW can find a way to bring this to the US with a diesel option among the myriad regular gas engines.
Kurt, S2000 is 100% RWD, but front engine. MR2 is mid-engine.
Mid-engine isn’t necessarily better than front engine (think about collisions), and whether mid-engines actually handles substantially better is debatable.
Here in my local dealers, S2000 is sold for $42K Canadian dollars after rebate, before tax. About the same of an entry level 3-series. Considering VW’s usual pricing schemes, I would say they are comparable.