Michael writes:
Hello Sajeev, I’d like to ping your automotive wisdom with the following question. Soon I’ll be looking for a new car to replace my leased Corolla. I love power moonroofs (which my Corolla also has). My next car will be a long-term keeper, and even though I’d love to equip it with a roof orifice, I’m not sure about the longer-term reliability of power moonroofs. Are they known to start leaking, to require expensive repairs? Or is it better to buy a car without a moonroof and then have a manual sunroof installed; and would it void the car’s warranty?
I’d like to keep my next car until it falls apart — 10 years or longer. Thanks muchly for your time.
Sajeev answers:
Take it from the guy who has two 10+ year old cars with glass tops: do it. After thirteen years, one car’s factory moonroof needed nothing but a new rubber gasket to eliminate wind noise, a $50 part from a company called the Sunroof Doctor. If you’re paranoid or OCD, ehow.com has some helpful hints on sunroof maintenance.
The other option is a Webasto unit installed at the dealer, and it only needs a new felt pad to silence an occasional rattle from the pop-up wind deflector. No motor failures. No leaks. No brainer.
I prefer factory installed moonroofs because they have a better-integrated look inside the car, especially the switch and bezel. Most importantly, their unique roof stamping lets the glass sit flush with the roof: aftermarket parts normally sit a millimeter on top as they are a cut the roof and drop-in affair.
Bonus! A Piston Slap Nugget of Wisdom:
If you find a great deal on a roof-less car, go aftermarket and haggle on the price. Dealers usually have an off-site outfitter who sells their services at a discount: either you fight for dealer’s cost, or go to the horse’s mouth instead. From what I’ve seen, there’s a 10% markup on this service, so negotiate a better deal.
[Send your technical queries to mehta@ttac.com]
I have had multiple cars with these power moonroofs. From my experience, they slow with age and need a bit of “persuasion” to close completely. I had an 85′ Subaru whose sunroof needed to be pushed shut to fully seal after it was 10 years old(I drove it to 15). My 98′ Blazer, once it was 10 years old, also needs a good push to get it shut, which means I usually just leave it shut. My 2002 Mazda sunroof still works great. I guess the motor will get weak in another two years or so.
My 85 Prelude had a sun/moon/wtfyoucallit roof. After 14 years, it was one of the few things on the car that still worked like the day I drove it off the lot.
My 99 Celica also has one. 10 years and 172K miles later, it too, works just like new.
My experiences with an ’85 BMW 533i, ’99 Escort ZX2, and ’06 TSX have all been positive. No leaks, no mechanical problems, and hardly any maintenance besides greasing the mechanicals. My family still owns all these cars today. In fact, the roof is about the only thing that hasn’t broken on the BMW.
A friend of mine had a Civic she installed and aftermarket roof on and it leaked. Also, they don’t look nearly as professional.
Lubrication. Of the mechanism and seals. Sometimes it’s hard to reach the proper places but proper lubrication keeps things working smoothly. And keep the rubber parts coated to prevent dry-rot. I go back and forth between using silicone and other rubber treatments. Be careful, silicone seems to soften some paint.
And don’t let debris (leaves, seeds) clog up the drain hoses. Every sunroof I have owned had a “gutter” to collect water and diverted it to drain hoses.
I would say thumbs down to aftermarket roofs. I had one on my Toyota Corolla years ago that I foolishly allowed the dealer to have installed (hey, it was my first car). It was an ASC and the installation wasn’t very well done and when I needed warranty work it could only be done at the one shop that installed it as opposed to any Toyota dealer like a factory roof would have been. Within about 75K miles the headliner started coming down which is when I learned they used duct tape to reinstall the headliner after putting in the roof. Bottom line: with a factory roof you’re getting consistent quality and warranty support. Aftermarket is a crapshoot.
I’ve since had several cars with factory installed sunroofs and all of them have performed flawlessly and been very durable. I currently drive a 12 year old Lexus with a factory room that has been trouble free after 175K miles, same with my wife’s 2001 Explorer with 110K miles.
If you want a sunroof, I would have no hesitation with a factory roof for quality reasons. My next car won’t have one because in real life (at least for me) they are seldom opened soconsidering the few inches of headroom they take, the benefit isn’t worth it.
Similar to grog, had a 87 Prelude until a few years ago. 300,000 miles+, sunroof didn’t leak at all.
T-tops and aftermarket roofs are generally the trouble makers. That being said, if you go aftermarket, just a cheap, flush mount pop-up deal. Easier for the do-it-yourselfer to caulk/work on if it ever has leaks.
My 1990 Integra had a moonroof. Never leaked but it did have some issues closing at a decent speed and even needing a little assistance..reading on a forum led to the switch contacts being the issue, not the motor or rails. Cleaned the contacts in 01, worked well but ended up replacing the switch in 04 and never had a problem after that!
I’ve owned twenty two sunroof equipped cars, and wouldn’t own a vehicle without one (unless it was a convertible or a truck.) No leaks or issues. Some of the new aftermarket sunroofs (Webasto) are so well done both inside and out that it’s tough to tell them apart from an OEM one.
I had a moon roof when I lived in Florida. The hot sun wore out the rubber seal and it started leaking. I was driving in a rainstorm once and I started taking a shower in my car. Not a lot of fun with clothes on. Make sure you can replace the rubber seal at a low price.
Definitely go factory. Factory sunroofs/moonroofs have one key thing that the aftermarket ones do not: drains.
Factory sunroofs do not rely solely on rubber gaskets (which can wear out) to keep the water out. There is a gutter and drain around the inside edges of the opening to catch and drain any water that may get past. The drains usually run down the A or B pillars, and drain out by the doors. In fact, you can leave the panel tilted open during a rain storm on many vehicles and still not get any water in the car because of this.
Aftermarket setups only have that rubber gasket, and once it inevitably goes bad (and it will), the water will will leak inside your car, and on your seat or head.
Right Webasto are the masters at Sunroofs.Thier stamping is second to none. If the hole is not stamped/cut and flanged right it will leak 100% of the time.
A little inside info folks Honda,Ford and at least two others including GM use Webasto. In Oshawa I used to ship 1500 finished roofs a week to Livonia for stamping.
Anything factory built in the last 10 years won’t give you a problem.I don’t care for aftermarket roofs.The roof is a crucial part of a unibody build. Don’t f–k with it
I have a 2005 F-150 with factory moonroof. My first power moonroof.
The truck used to get a musty smell every time it rained. No leaks were evident, so I ruled out the moonroof at first. The carpet used to get wet at the passenger footwell.
After many troubleshooting dead ends, I discovered that the moonroof drain tube was plugged. The water would overflow the pan and trickle behind the plastic mouldings and onto the floor pan, flooding the wiring harness and causing the odd electrical glitch.
Thanks to the marvels of the Interwebs, I researched said problem and effected a solution. A blast of compressed air blew the drain tube out and problem solved.
The problem with aftermarket moonroofs (‘rooves?) is that your car’s roof has braces underneath, and many times, one must be cut to install a moonroof. At the factory, they install a brace that goes around the opening, but in the aftermarket the support is just cut and usually not replaced. I’d much prefer a factory moonroof, and with maintenance (lubrication, keeping the tracks and drain tubes clear of debris, etc.) it should provide many years of trouble free operation. You may have to replace a gasket once in a while, but that would most likely be for noise issues (as Sajeev noted) rather than water intrusion. I have also seen several with shades that become broken and get hung up in the tracks, but a failure of the mechanism isn’t very common from what I’ve seen.
thalter is exactly right. I would never recommend an aftermarket (including dealer installed) sun/moon roof for that reason. Gotta have those drains or you’ll regret it.
Experience of my friends and me is that factory sunroofs don’t leak but that aftermarket ones do. I will attest that none of these aftermarket roofs are from Webasto; in fact I would not have been surprised if they had “Cheap piece of shit” stamped on them somewhere.
When did sunroofs become moonroofs?
Just wonderin’…
Sunroofs are metal, and must be opened to enjoy the bright outdoors. Moonroofs are glass, and can be either opened for air exposure, or viewed through with the sunshade opened.
I hate moonroofs. I had one on my Prelude, the usual over-engineered variety that grabs the glass panel and pulls it back into the roof. It leaked on me several times — and here’s the kicker: there was nothing wrong with it.
Like most moonroofs, the rubber seal around the glass was not really intended to keep out large amounts of water — just dust. To deal with water intrusion, it had two large stainless steel channels on either side of the cabin opening, each of which led to a drain tube running down inside the roof pillars and out the wheel wells. In theory, as long as those drainage tubes were clear, it shouldn’t have leaked. In places where it rains infrequently, they need to be rodded out periodically to get dust and crap out of the tubes. This is not a big deal; my mechanic would do it for free during an oil service, if I remembered to ask.
Here’s the problem. My parking space is outside, and it’s on an incline of about 15 degrees. Whenever it would rain heavily (fortunately, not that often in L.A.), water would begin to run over the side of the drainage channels and into the cavity in which the glass panel vanished when closed. If it wasn’t raining very hard or very long, this spillage would be negligible. If it rained for two days in a row (as it occasionally does, even here), however, all bets were off. That would build up a fairly significant amount of water in the roof cavity, which could not reach the drain tubes, even if they were clear. As soon as the car was moved, that water would run forward, out the sliding panel in the headliner, and directly down the back of my neck.
This happened three times. The first time, I didn’t really understand how the mechanism worked, and ended up having the mechanic clean out the drainage tubes, which I assumed would help. The second and third time, the tubes were clear, they just did no good.
It got to the point where every time it rained, I’d have to go put the car on the street, where it was on a level surface. If I’d had a garage or indoor parking, or if my parking space were level, it would not have been an issue, but it became clear that it was going to be a problem as long as I lived here.
When I bought a new car in 2004, I told the salesmen I did not want a moonroof, and wouldn’t take it if they gave it to me for free. If I’ve just paid for a new car, the last thing I want is to have to move it every time it rains so that it wouldn’t leak.
I never understood the appeal of moonroofs. I’ve driven probably 150,000 miles in cars with them, and I can count the number of times I’ve opened a moonroof on two hands. My current car has a targa top that is great in the summer though
thetopdog : I never understood the appeal of moonroofs. I’ve driven probably 150,000 miles in cars with them, and I can count the number of times I’ve opened a moonroof on two hands.
The car in my description was my father’s, been driving it since I was 16 years old. Point is, I cannot tell you how many times I have done late night driving on a wide open highway with the music cranked, the moonroof shade open (glass closed) and enjoyed the dancing of street lights to the beat of my music.
Moonroofs are wonderful inventions, if you don’t mind the extra 50lbs on the roof.
Carguy 622, BMW stopped making the 533i in 84. No matter, all the sunroofs on my E28s work flawlessly too.
Have a sun, excuse me, moonroof in my ’92 Sable station car. Cleaned out the drain once when it plugged with debris. Other than cleaning the drain, it has been no problem. I actually like it; I would buy one on my next car…
My current car has a moonroof, not that I wanted it, it just happened to have all the other stuff I wanted so I accepted the moonroof as part of the deal. Generally I dislike moonroofs as they cut into the headroom, but, as I have enough space for my head not to touch the ceiling even with it, I don’t care much. I think I have opened it maybe four or five times in the four and a half years I have owned the vehicle.
If you go for one, only accept a factory unit. My dealership won’t even mess with aftermarket units due to the potential for leaks. I haven’t heard of a factory unit leaking in any car made in the last decade or two, so, you should be safe there (while I am sure someone will have a counterpoint to this, if only a few out of millions of cars in that period had issues, I think the odds are pretty good).
Factory hands down. The only serious problem you have to worry about is the drain hoses. They shouldn’t be a problem if you keep debris from clogging them. Then things like seal will keap the noise down.
My dislike of sun/moon/star roofs [added mechanical complexity, more weight high up in the car] is sufficiently great that when I was considering purchase of an S5 [which is a great car in my book, otherwise], the fact that a s/m/s roof was a mandatory option was the deal-breaker.
When I look upwards while seated in my car, I want to see solid tin!