TTAC commentator bumpy ii writes:
I have an S2000 with just over 50,000 miles on the clock. The first thing I did when I bought it three years ago was to change the oil to Mobil 1 10w30 and install the OEM filter. I’ve put about 4,000 highway miles and a few autocrosses on the oil since then, with two or three minor top-offs. I’m planning on changing the brake fluid and coolant this summer (did the transmission and differential last summer). Should I change the oil too, even though it’s still that happy golden color? How about the filter?
Sajeev answers:
The oil is still golden? That comes as no a surprise, and that means you’re fine for several thousand more miles.
On one hand I’ve heard of tow vehicles going to/from the Bonneville Salt Flats needing 10,000+ miles between M1oil changes, because highway cruising is easier than bumper-to-bumper traffic, especially in hotter climates. On the other hand, I’ve had two overheating issues while (ahem) legally racing, which sadly wiped out once-good M1 in a matter of minutes.
But those are extremes: for your car, I would be hard pressed to change M1 oil before 5000 miles. Having 4000 miles on M1 is no big deal for almost any driving condition, but three years between changes is.
Change the oil.
[Send your technical queries to mehta@ttac.com]
With all due respect, only a used oil analysis can tell you the real state of your oil. There are so many variables that a visual inspection is somewhat similar to “kicking the tires” to examine your car. It’s cheap, and if you care enough to ask (or to pay for an S2000), you probably care enough to shell out the few bucks for an analysis.
Check out the bitog forums for excruciatingly detailed information and discussion on lubricants.
I’d wait until 5K for the oil. The more important thing to do is to change the brake fluid. If you’ve autocrossed it and the fluid is old I would change it out now and every two years afterward. I’d do the coolant every two years also.
Wait a minute — You have three year old oil sitting in a car?
I’d be concerned not so much about the quality of the oil itself but with everything else that has become trapped in the oil over three years.
Mobil one says once a year for low usage engines.
We suggest changing your engine oil yearly and doing that change just before the time you will be using your vehicle the most.
The oil is fine. You’d better dump the car though. It’s all worn out.
E-mail me for my address and you can leave it in my driveway.
Once every year or two for low-mileage vehicles, regardless of miles driven. Synthetic oil may be overkill for a vehicle that is driven so infrequently, but if it sees track use, and it’s truly something special, it’s probably worth it.
Uh, brakes used in autocross?
Sorry Sajeev, I have to completely disagree with you on this on. The color of the oil has NOTHING to do with the condition of it, despite what you may have heard.
You MUST change the oil yearly at minimum (even the all holy AMSOIL recommends this). The reason is that the additive package of the oil is used even when the engine is sitting there doing nothing. The anti-corrosion additive is the primary consumption since moisture will make its way in and cause corrosion even when the engine isn’t running. Also, acids are produced in the engine which will neutralize the base (in the pH sense of the word) eventually causing the oil to become acidic (you don’t want that in your engine). Neither of these conditions will show up on a “color change” check.
Also, if this is a car used on the track, the brake fluid should be completely flushed every year at minimum, preferably right before your first race/autocross. Street driven cars should be done every 2-3 years.
I don’t buy into the synthetic long life oil myth
My daily driver Implala every 5000 klm[3000] miles.I Ignore the oil life monitor.My Firebird is on the road from April to October with 2 oil changes regardless of klms.The workhorse Jimmy once in the fall,once in the spring.With Jimmys and Blazers,you have a choice,lube the ball joints or buy new ones.
Oil change is a great oportunity to have a close look at things.Brakes,hoses,leaks and potential problems
Brake fluid should be changed once a year.Every two years at the minimum. Brake fluid sucks moisture out of thin air and stores it. I guess you call that behavior hygroscopic. Then you do a hard brake, the fluid heats up, the water turns into vapor, and you get vaporized also.
Honda has called for 5W20 for some time.
10W30 is WAY too thick.
All:
I forgot the “three years” part, so my analysis is indeed way incorrect. Having 4000 miles on M1 is no big deal for almost any driving condition, but three years between changes is.
Change the oil.
BIlly Bobb 2, do you have a link for this? My manual says 10w30.
Mikey: don’t buy into the synthetic long life oil myth. My daily driver Impala every 5000 klm[3000] miles.
If you are changing synthetic every 3000mi, you should really have an oil analysis done to your waste oil. I use the term “waste” loosely, because I betcha a 6-pack of Labatt’s that you are throwing perfectly good oil away.
Oil analysis is a great tool for oil changers that are 1-2 deltas off the statistical bell curve of recommended oil change intervals.
For those that stick with what’s in the owner’s manual (or use a full synthetic and change every 6-10k), I don’t know how valuable an analysis can be.
But Mikey needs one, because I was serious about my bet. :)
3 years old?!?! Change that oil! Even if you don’t drive it, change conventional oil every 6 months, synthetic every year. Oil does have a shelf life.
Penaloza : BIlly Bobb 2, do you have a link for this? My manual says 10w30.
I saw that (10w30) on the forums too. It raised a flag in my research, mostly because most Hondas use 5w20, and have done so years before other carmakers followed suit. Then again, the S2000 ain’t no Civic.
After my first oil change, I began using Amsoil in my Prius. Been keeping up with 6,000-7,000 change interval.
I figure that may be too soon. Or not; I don’t know. But I’m going an additioal 20-40% farther between intervals. Statistically speaking, it may be better to stay out of the service bays; lower chance for something going wrong (car falling off hoist, clumsy tech poking a water hose with a screwdriver, etc).
Call me gunshy!
My Aztek’s owner’s manual says that if you’ve gone 12 months or 12,000 miles on your oil, you are to change it regardless of whether or not you’ve gotten the oil monitor light yet. No exceptions for synthetic.
My oil monitor light comes on anywhere from 4900 to 6100 miles.
If I’ve got a big trip coming up and 3K+ on the oil I’ll go ahead and dump it before the light comes on. Otherwise, I follow the light.
I’ve been changing the Ranger’s oil twice a year, which works out to once every approx. 5500 miles.
I’ve got 133K on the Ranger and use no oil between changes as this is the only Ford I’ve ever owned that doesn’t leak oil.
Bumpy;
As an S2000 owner since ’04 I can give you the following advice:
For a “garage queen” (about 2k mi/year-no short trips-no cold weather use) using synthetic oil once every 2 years is ok. I have verified oil analysis which probably points to 3 years being ok under those conditions. Otherwise every 7500mi or once/year.
Our engines are not the garden variety Honda 4-banger. We have a special non-metallic cylinder liner bonded to the block casting. Honda’s oil viscosity requirement is for 10W-30, and even 5W-40 (for severe conditions). DO NOT USE 5W-20!! Also, be sure to use the specific S2000 oil filter-it is not the same as the generic Honda oil filter. I’d be wary of any non-S2000 specific oil filters just to be safe.
Pay special attention to the viscosity of the differential oil. It was factory filled with 90 weight oil-not the 70w-90 mutil-vis usually found.
Many of our Torsen diffs have gone BOOM using the wrong weight (too thin or too thick) oil.
When bleeding the brakes, don’t forget the clutch. If it hasen’t been touched, the clutch fluid will look like raw crude oil after a while, then a fluid leak into the driver’s footwell is not far behind. Use only dot-3 or dot-4 brake fluid for the clutch. The reservoir is under the master brake reservoir.
Check the spark plug and oil filter torque every once in a while. With an 8000 rpm redline and v-tec that only starts @ 6000 rpm, they can loosen up if not correctly torqued to begin with.
Try GM Syncromesh FM in your tranny-it will greatly improve the cold 1-2 and 2-3 shift.
Finally, be careful of the “money shift”. Should you mechanically overrev the engine on a downshift, the valve retainers have a tendency to crack. If they don’t fail then, they could fail at any time in the future. Only a valve-cover-off inspection can tell. Usually a CEL for cylinder misfire is the common sign of impending disaster.
Good luck and happy V-tec’n
BD
To comment on a few things BostonDuce mentions:
For a “garage queen” (about 2k mi/year-no short trips-no cold weather use) using synthetic oil once every 2 years is ok. I have verified oil analysis which probably points to 3 years being ok under those conditions.
I disagree BostonDuce….YOUR oil Analysis indicated that it was fine (I’m guessing you had TBN checked, did you do TAN as well?). But ambient conditions vary, and a higher level of humidity and/or cold weather will result in greater condensation build-up and therefore oil acidity. One year is the safest potential value for ALL conditions, though it could be safe for years longer. But it’s not a blanket statement.
“Pay special attention to the viscosity of the differential oil. It was factory filled with 90 weight oil-not the 70w-90 mutil-vis usually found.”
I don’t understand this comment. 75w90 has the same operating temp viscosity as straight 90 viscosity. It just has better cold-operating flow. How would using 75w90 cause anything to fail? If anything, it should help it last longer. The only thing I can think of is if it didn’t have limited slip additives.
My only comments. :)
To Sajeez, the fact that you indicated oil color gives any information is disturbing.
@sajeev your not the first guy to tell me that,so I will do the oil analysis and find out for sure.
If I’m wrong,next time I’m in the US I’ll send you a 6 pack of Labbats 50.
In general engine oil is fully used after this period.
Remember that this kind of usage (5.000 miles in three years) counts as severe usage.
Why should you bother? If you can aford this car, you can afford an oilchange. What you can’t afford is extreme engine wear (and that comes sooner than most people believe).
AFAIK the recomended viscosity is 5W-40.
The differentials need HP GL-5 80W-90
mikey : email me with your insights from the oil analysis, it’ll make Piston Slap for certain. And I have friends and relatives in Toronto who wouldn’t mind mailing you a 6-pack of joy for your trouble. :)
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Joe O : To Sajeez, the fact that you indicated oil color gives any information is disturbing.
While low-mileage golden oil may have hidden problems, do you really think that dark-as-night oil is telling you absolutely nothing?
Color gives information.
What information is that? Colored oil viewed on a dipstick imparts no real information.
Now, granted, you pull the dipstick and a wad of sludge falls off, or you feel grit between your fingers, that’ll tell you something. But the color does not.
Midnight black oil represents suspended combustion blow-by. Doesn’t represent the protection afforded by the oil, it’s viscosity, it’s remaining additive packages, or many other actually important values.
That’s why some cars turn oil black in 1000 miles and drive on it for an additional 4000 miles without problems, and other cars look like amber after 15000 miles on the same batch.
Joe