If you didn’t get the memo, this website gets a lot of grief for its negative outlook on American cars. We cannot change the harsh reality of the situation, but we will lead a (bankrupt) horse to water. And make it take that all important first sip. That’s the plan: TTAC is campaigning for a Real American Car.
We’ll use a current platform and tweak it with off-the-shelf componentry, readily available to any bean counter having the foresight to use them the first time. As opposed to doing what they did, delusionally thinking it was right, and never admitting it was wrong. That’s right, we’re going skunkworks. But the question remains, what is the best candidate for The Real American Car? For starters, I am listing one from each of the Big 2.8:
Car One, General Motors: what’s worse than a V6 powered Cadillac? Two of them. The duo of shameful, torque-less V6 engines in the CTS are a not so funny joke after seeing the R&D money spent on the small block Chevy V8’s addition to the rental car queen Impala SS. Which has more power, similar economy (even with four speeds) and costs way less. Chevy aside, why the acres of space between the CTS and CTS-V? The time for a displacement on demand 5.3L Cadillac CTS is now, baby; and upcoming brand corrosive baby Caddies had better show some damn respect.
Car Two, Ford: I have a dead 2002 Mercury Cougar awaiting a Duratec Taurus heart transplant, but that’s not a “Real American Car.” No profit vacuums from Europe, especially today’s downmarket Volvos pretending to be the King. They are not, so let’s make the Panther Chassis that Ford forgot: an un-beancounted Lincoln Town Car. The real deal: overstuffed velour seats from a 1980s model, Shelby GT-500 engine, beefed up Explorer six-cog transmission, Police Interceptor suspension/steering bits, Mark VIII rear axle and an interior from the Lincoln MKS, complete with ICE-overload but with room for three fat-ass Americans on the front seat.
Car Three, Chrysler: there’s nothing wrong with a HEMI-powered Chrysler 300 that a complete interior redesign couldn’t fix. But if the new (2009) Dodge Ram Laramie is still far behind the Ford F-150 Platinum, we can’t trust Chrysler to do this right. So new steering wheel, carpets, seats, gathered leather and brilliant wood (no more fake Tortoise shell, please!) on the doors, Alcantara headliner, and a serious diet and wardrobe change for the bloated and cheap dashboard/console. Oh, and we’ll raid MOPAR and other aftermarket supplier catalogs for modest suspension, exhaust, engine and computer upgrades to amp up the fun but keep it all legal.
So what car do you think is worthy of TTAC’s campaign for The Real American Car?
The sad truth is that the “real” American car does not exist. The Corvette is the only American car I can think of that is actually designed from the ground up in the States. Everything else in GM’s staple is a rebadged Holden, Opel, or awful Daewoo. The Impala, though built in Canada. is mostly designed and engineered in the States. However, that will change when it is replaced.
The US industry is dead. We are now better at soccer than producing cars.
What a disgrace!!!!!!
I think a real American car should be made by a US headquartered company, and made here in the US by a company not owned by the US govt. Not many cars to choose from.
The car I’d like to see made, would be a Fusion SVT. I think all the Fusions are still made in Mexico (using a modified Mazda 6 platform), which contradicts what I said above, but take a Fusion, made in the good old US, and put the Twin-Force – er – EcoBoost V-6 from the “I can’t stop eating twinkies” SHO coupled with AWD and a 6 speed manual. Can we make it a wagon too? Nothing more American than a station wagon (yet oddly, mostly european makers produce them now). That’s an all-American car I’d vote for.
Ford is killing the Panther platform after 2011 model year – they will solely be reworked Eurojapanese automobiles going forward.
The American automakers mirror our country in general – a rapid decline into debt and obsolescense.
I second above….Makes no sense that the G8 GXP has more horsepower than a CTS (ex CTS-V) if Cadillac is supposed to be the highest end of GM’s brand ladder.
The 300 hp DI-V6 should be standard on the base CTS with an optional ~400hp V8. That would be a TTAC worthy American car.
Once you’ve decided on the real American car, give me the parts list of the componentry and I’ll deliver it at unbeatable prices ex China.
FCL (full container load) only.
Someone will assemble them in America, so they will be Made in the U.S.A.
Didn’t you always want to drive a Model B&B ? (Your TTAC handle engraved at a slight extra charge.)
The Towncar is probably the car that has the most room for easy improvement.
GM’s 2 liter 260 HP ecotec turbo is being seriously underutilized.
The V6 G8 and V6 Challenger could use a 6 speed manual.
Tesla’s American, right? A Tesla Roadster with a high output inline-4 in place of the electric motor and batteries, for about $70K less, would be interesting. Oh, wait.
I’d plump for the proper Town Car, but that’s just my own personal biases at work.
“this website gets a lot of grief for its negative outlook on American cars.”
TTAC’s on-going criticism has apprpriately been aimed at the executive management “teams” and BoDs of American auto companies. Their collective greed and monumental incompetence drove GM and Chrysler to bankruptcy and put Ford on the edge of it. Substantial jail time for these theives would be the most appropriate reward.
So what car do you think is worthy of TTAC’s campaign for The Real American Car?
The Holden Efigy concept.
Along the lines of Car No. 2: a rumor had Ford putting the 2002 Continental Concept on Panther, becoming the new Lincoln flagship.
For better or for worse, it didn’t happen.
Considering the girl, who cares about cars?
Very strange topic to me!
I happen to believe in free trade.
You know, as in, buying what’s best benefits all. As in, most social progress during the past 100 years has come from free trade. So I don’t care where any product I buy comes from.
And I thought *I* was a lefty…
I had a similar thought lately.
It could be my opinion, but I’d imagine that if a group of people were asked to name their favorite American car, it would be something 1) old and 2) overtly styled and 3) powered by a v8 engine and 4) rear wheel drive
On the sporty end people would choose a Corvette or Mustang. On the normal car end it would be a 50’s Chevy or Cadillac or 60’s Lincoln.
By all non-rose-colored-glasses accounts every car on that list is less safe, less efficient and less reliable than any modern car. However they are all still remembered and adored 50 years later because they have style.
Take the styling, chrome and all, galvanize it so they don’t rust out like they used to, then just update the safety features (design in some crumple zones in the hood and fenders, add airbags and seat belts) and modern brakes (discs instead of drums) and drivetrain. Keep it rear wheel drive so that the hood is low and engine bay less cluttered and thus easier to work on.
Even a modern interpretation of a classic design is better (Google ‘Ford Forty-Nine Concept’ for a good example) than the current state of American non-design.
As things are – meaningless brands with mostly uninteresting products, solely appealing to nationalism in their advertising to sell cars – the current C11 bankruptcy is too kind an option.
I’m thinking Ford Crown Vic with Interceptor motor, 6 speed auto trans , independent rear suspaension from Expedition, jam in all the goodies Ford offers in the Grand Marquis in Black metallic with red leather. You won’t find a VIN starting with a J anywhere close to it in Red, White and Blue land.
Bertel Schmitt :
Once you’ve decided on the real American car, give me the parts list of the componentry and I’ll deliver it at unbeatable prices ex China.
How many tries will it take to actually meet the specs? and how many people do I have to send over to monitor things to keep it that way?
Wait, what’s wrong with the V6 in the CTS? I own this, a 3.6 V6. I feel there’s nothing wrong with the power available on this thing, fully loaded with passengers & air-conditioning on and all.
I also like the fact I can dump the crap gas in there when (and if) the gas prices fly back up. So I’m not seeing why your trashing this option.
On a serious note, the above options, cool as they sound, will not sell.
I don’t think there’s anything really wrong with the Cadillac CTS, V8 or not. I do think there’s something wrong with the STS and something seriously wrong with the DTS.
The Panther is more wrong still. No one but mechanics and fleet managers likes these cars. For normal people the D3 cars are better vehicles. Heck, the Fusion is a better car. Even dolled up, they’re still saddled with compromises that don’t make sense unless you hop curbs or perform PIT maneuvers. If you think the D3 doesn’t sell well, it’s nothing compared to the non-response these cars would get.
Chrysler seemed to get the “Real American Car” more than anyone else when they made the 300. It was roomy (kinda), brash (definitely) and had some performance credibility, even though you could buy the wimpy engine. The problem is that the car is badly handicapped with some truly cheap bits.
The problem is that the Real American Car, today, is the Camry. It’s fast, roomy, reliable, reasonably styled, good-riding and inexpensive to run. Whatever the next Real American Car is, it’ll have to be faster, roomier, more reliable, less ugly. better-riding and less expensive to own. My bets are on the Volkswagen NMS.
Build that Lincoln Continental concept from a handful of years ago (2002?). That would be an instant classic “american” car. End of argument.
How many tries will it take to actually meet the specs? and how many people do I have to send over to monitor things to keep it that way?
And how will I know if the plastic won’t give off toxic fumes in my closed car on a hot day so that when I put little Madelyn/Conner/Tyler/Tanner/Mykaela in their seat, they won’t succumb to some hithertoo rare affliction caused by breathing in said fumes? All because the plastic supplier decided to switch some component of the plastic with oh, something like mercury.
Couldn’t we go with that Buick concept car shown a day or two ago?
You won’t find a VIN starting with a J anywhere close to it in Red, White and Blue land.
You will find a VIN starting with “2”, though. In fact, two of the three on the above list are Red, White and Red specials
I’ll take the girl and a Nissan Maxima. or Altima Coupe. or 370Z. or GT-R.
Whatever the next Real American Car is, it’ll have to be faster, roomier, more reliable, less ugly. better-riding and less expensive to own. My bets are on the Volkswagen NMS.
If reliability and low cost-of-ownership are important issues in owning a car, that eliminates VW from contention.
How about the Malibu? It’s now a pretty decent car despite the perception gap, how about dropping in either a high(er) output V6 or a 5.3L small block for an SS version and add AWD. Of course, I am not aware of an off-the-shelf AWD system in GM’s cabinet and converting it to RWD would call for a re-design (or a Holden rebadge, oh wait!). Can a V8 powered FWD car work???
I had originally remarked on the comment regarding the Tesla being American, but my sarcasmometer wasn’t on….
juniper:
How many tries will it take to actually meet the specs?
Depends on the quality of your specs. The tighter the specs the better the quality. AutoCad drawing, exact material description. Performance parameters. Testing parameters. Tight, tight.
and how many people do I have to send over to monitor things to keep it that way?
None. That’s where we come in. We do that for very picky European customers … And then we have the whole thing checked again by TÜV before the container closes.
I was waiting for the bus yesterday at Pennsylvania and 20th and decided to count the number of American cars (and vehicles) driving by. After 10 minutes I had counted 7, 4 of them taxi cabs and the rest a jeep or SUV. Not a single privately owned car. Plenty of former American brands (volvo, saab). A geo metro (not sure where that fit in). This was rush hour traffic driving home to Virginia. Well over 100 vehicles drove by.
My girlfriend was trying to convince me that we can still rule the world based on the excellence of the Michael Jackson telecast; nobody else could have put that together. Someone, I’d rather have the ability to make vehicles.
I think the Chinese have got it right — create market conditions so you have to at least build the damn cars here.
Lets throw in a back to basics pickup truck too. I mean a I-6 or small block OHV V8, 5-speed manual, RWD, regular cab, short or long bed. Oh hell, the headliner is fine but keep the floors rubber. Something you can drive on the farm/ranch or around town.
@Bertel Schmitt
juniper:
How many tries will it take to actually meet the specs?
Depends on the quality of your specs. The tighter the specs the better the quality. AutoCad drawing, exact material description. Performance parameters. Testing parameters. Tight, tight.
How about a Solidworks 3D CAD model? From that we got 3 or 4 acceptable prototypes out of 10 castings. Dimensions were OK, but the voids and holes in the castings were not so wonderful.
OTOH, that reject rate is only somewhat worse than that of the GM engine foundries in the 80s and 90s, if the accounts in The Reckoning were correct. And that was termed production, not prototyping.
Lets throw in a back to basics pickup truck too. I mean a I-6 or small block OHV V8, 5-speed manual, RWD, regular cab, short or long bed. Oh hell, the headliner is fine but keep the floors rubber. Something you can drive on the farm/ranch or around town.
What?!? A truck without power door locks and a DVD player? How gauche!
John
chuckR
How about the material? Was it even close to the SAE or JIS callout?
Don’t even get me started on bearing life. Half the cost and a third of the life.
Replace a 2.5 Duratec in a 2002 Cougar? It’s a shredder candidate.
This will sound crazy, but I’m dead DEAD serious.
Go to the scrap yard and buy up every last bit of tooling you can find for the 91-96 GM B-C car platform (think: Caprice).
Minor updates and tweeks to make it ready to meet 2010 and beyond would be a piece of cake. I have a list in my head already. Impala SS LT1 to LSx engine swaps are already becoming the norm. And it would revive the anti-minivan’ers with a wagon that can carry a 4 X 8 sheet of drywall.
Performance car. Family car. Fleet car They were the ultimate American car.
And every State Trooper will never stop thanking us.
I think the Ford Mustang would qualify as a real American car. The problem is it’s not practical for hauling people and their stuff. How about building a slightly larger sedan on the Mustang platform that keeps RWD and the V8 option, but adds room for 4 adults? I’d give this car an appropriate name like the Talladega. The Talladega would never be as practical as the Camary, but it could be more safe and refined than classic muscle cars while also being unmistakenly American. I bet that my Mustang based Talladega car would make more money for Ford than the ginormous Taurus.
How about a Solidworks 3D CAD model?
Even better, but they like AutoCad (they all have the ripped-off copies :)
From that we got 3 or 4 acceptable prototypes out of 10 castings. Dimensions were OK, but the voids and holes in the castings were not so wonderful.
Ah, yes. Been there many times. That’s why you need feet on the ground who can say “Bu Hao” (no good) and refuse to pay for crap. Funny thing, they actually like it when you stand next to them and show them what’s good and what’s bad. Writing a very detailed contract with a binding arbitration clause also very important ….
This is supposed to be improve a current American car improved with bolt on parts, not design a new American car from the ground up.
Sadly, two ideas that I would like,
a 2 liter 260 HP turbo DI ecotec with a 6 speed manual in the Saturn Astra and
a 2 liter 260 HP turbo DI ecotec with a 6 speed manual in the Hummer H3
come from dying brands.
commando1:
I’m with you. Added bonus, we could probably get the wagon version classified as a light truck for CAFE purposes, exempting it from the gas guzzler tax and , of course, the higher passenger car CAFE standards.
The Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon is the kind of halo car that Buick needs right now, and the Fleetwood (FTS?) is the kind of real Cadillac that Cadillac needs. Lets see a 7-series tow 7,500 pounds.
Sure, she’s cute, mostly undressed and not afraid to get dirty, but I just don’t trust a hot chick holding jumper cables, especially if the look on her face seems more of withering contempt than of desire.
It would be nice to have the option of real American cars, especially if they were really good, unlike most American cars. I loved my ’95 Neon, I did not love replacing the engine, the head gasket…
Martin Schwoerer : You know, as in, buying what’s best benefits all. As in, most social progress during the past 100 years has come from free trade. So I don’t care where any product I buy comes from. And I thought *I* was a lefty…
This is about positioning a product within a branding strategy, not restricting trade. And you get a free pass from knowing what makes an American car AMERICAN. Though I suspect you already know the key differentiators. You big lefty. :)
@juniper
This was just an quick comment on my experience – with thin wall titanium investment castings from rapid prototype derived molds. I don’t think we bothered with SAE, JIS or anyone else.
One casting had a genuine see through pinhole but in a non critical area. We built it up and it worked and is still working well in testing. Nothing a little bondo couldn’t fix ;)
Sajeev: okay, I get it, thanks
Take an LS block, de-stroke it, throw overhead breathing on, and make it a rev-box. That’s the Caddy motor. Toss that in the Caddies as your stock motor. For the primo motor, throw induction on and titanium bits with forged crank (a’la LS7) on the de-stroked block.
Make the stock LS-block the Buick motor.
Take the DI “High-Feature” 6 currently in the Caddy, and make it the primo motor option in the Chevy Malibu (wonder if it would fit?). Throw magneheological shocks in with that motor for the “sport package.” Voila! Camcord killer, at least in performance.
Jeez, just do a F150 and de-content it, crank windows and manual locks, rubber flooring etcetera, slap in an in-line 6 mated to a 5 or 6 speed manual with 4-wheel drive, beef up the leaf springs and shocks, throw the kids in the truck box (of course you would have some sort of box liner and a cap!) and you could tow anything anywhere in any sort of weather.
Oh, wait, I was daydreaming about my childhood.
Seriously, that is about an American (or Canuck) vehicle as you could build. Nobody does trucks like Americans, and I’m not talking about wannabees like Escalades or Avalanches or Dakota Crewcabs.
The problem is that most Americans don’t want A Real American Car.
The closest you’re going to get is A Real American Truck.
Second thought…
Put a “Hemi” in the 4-door Wrangler. Those poor things need more oomph.
I’m confuesed. I thought most t-shirts are made in China because they’re cheap, yet, here’s a Chinese woman who obviously needs a new t-shirt.
What gives? Are we being fed a line of crap about Chinese goods being cheap? Why can’t she afford a new t-shirt.
And by the way, that’s obviously not an American zipper on those cut-offs.
Like others have said, the 300 was pretty much it. They screw it up with strategically placed cheap parts in places that everyone touches an feels. It’s a shame how close they came, and how badly they crewed up the simple parts.
Doing another panther isn’t going to work. That is a platform that needs to finally be allowed to die. Why not make something off of the Mustang platform with IRS. Lincoln and Cadillac should look at what Lexus is doing, and do it better, and beet them on price. he same thing Lexus did in the early 90s.
What gives? Are we being fed a line of crap about Chinese goods being cheap? Why can’t she afford a new t-shirt.
They don’t exactly pay workers in China big baller wages. She’s got to make due with her current wardrobe until she can afford better. Case in point; those shorts weren’t always shorts. ;)
As for the American car thing, they already build the ultimate American car in Kentucky. It’s called “Corvette”, and is available with up to 638 horsepower. No fantasy required, just a large checking account.
Ok, dream time. Here’s lots of ideas:
MOPAR:
A) Offer the 4.0L V6 in the Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited.
B) Change the name of the next-gen Charger to Coronet and then rename the Challenger to Charger and give it a retro-reskin for it to look as such. Now they’d correctly have 4-door Coronet and a big coupe wearing the Charger badge. Plus, no more painful 2.7L Charger rental cars.
C) Put the 4.7L V8 into an AWD Avenger along with suspension tweaks and the Getrag 6-speed from the Caliber SRT4. Call that the “SRT8 Demon”.
GM:
A)Take the G8 GT, luxurize the interior just a little, lose the too quiet L76 V8, drop in the 3.6L DI V6 with two turbos attached, sell the car as the Buick Grand National and tell the SHO to kiss its ass goodbye. Yes, a “Real American Car” by way of Australia.
B) Make a larger Zeta based coupe called the Monte Carlo with a Malibu-type interior. Give it the same engines as the Camaro.
C) Take the “Super Epsilon” platform and make a Cadillac Eldorado powered by the 4.4L supercharged Northstar.
Ford:
A) Reskin the Mustang, add an IRS, soften the ride and name it the Mercury Cougar. Offer the Ecoboost V6 and call the one with the GT500 engine “Eliminator”.
B) Offer the Australian Falcon line in North America. Australia does American cars better than anyone these days.
C) Take the LWB D2C Platform and the SHO’s interior. Add imposing sheetmetal in the spirit of the Interceptor Concept from a few years ago. Throw in the 6.2L Boss V8 that is going into the SVT Raptor, give it a 4.10 final drive setup, and and call the car the Ford Galaxie 500.
A front wheel drive Cadillac has all the usefulness of an appendix.
Actually appendixes (appendices?) are useful; they contain bacteria and can act as a reset on your colon if you get the wrong kind of bacteria in there. Unfortunately, they do occasionally get infected themselves which can lead to very bad results, like painful death.
Is it me or does her navel look way too far from her hips. She appears to have suffered from a magical separation catastrophe.
Chrysler seemed to get the “Real American Car” more than anyone else when they made the 300. It was roomy (kinda), brash (definitely) and had some performance credibility, even though you could buy the wimpy engine. The problem is that the car is badly handicapped with some truly cheap bits.
The problem is that the Real American Car, today, is the Camry. It’s fast, roomy, reliable, reasonably styled, good-riding and inexpensive to run. Whatever the next Real American Car is, it’ll have to be faster, roomier, more reliable, less ugly. better-riding and less expensive to own. My bets are on the Volkswagen NMS.
The point behind this is exactly correct. Autos are a pretty mature market and everyone’s already figured out what packages work. The differences at this point are based more on execution than fundamental innovation.
The “real american car” is one that needs to evoke the right sense of marketable heritage and contain enough quality to not stick out. Detroit has mostly failed more or less on both accounts. Strangely enough, Chrysler does better on the former while GM has been improving on the latter. Maybe someone can figure out a way for them to share the positives of each other.
BTW, the VW NMS look like a VW Lavida.
Considering the majority of Americans buy foreign or transplant vehicles, to manufacture and market a true “American” car would be pointless. Besides, who would make the radio ?
Gotta go with the hot-rod Lincoln. All sarcasm and irony aside, I’ve found that idea intriguing for years.
A real American entrepreneurial car company would rework the Mustang into a Cougar, just as they did in 1967. New skin, luxurious interors, sound reduction, and add $10,000 to the price.
Voila, a new American car that makes a nice profit. Perhaps you can start a recing series, get some promo and create a new legend. That would keep the Mustang plant working overtime.
You think I’m delusional? Check out the 67-68 Cougar.
Bob Elton
I have no interest in the gas guzzling, inefficient, yellow car, and don’t care where it came from.
I want to know where the woman came from. I will be happy to import one of them and make her an American.
Ah Sajeev Mehta, I wish I had known a long time ago that you were also a fan of the New Edge Mercury Cougar (or rather what that car could/should have been). Back when I was a member of NECO.org I was very tempted to do the 3.0L swap. If I remember correctly, you start with a 3.0L Duratec block combined with the Upper Intake Manifold from the 2.5L SVT Duratec Engine, SVT throttle body, larger fuel injectors (That’s what I remember). And if you want to add some FI to the setup you have to rig up the battery so you can put it in the trunk. Are you planning to keep the car NA after the swap?
There were some great videos posted by NECO members of their 3.0L Swaped Cougars stomping Mustang GTs, 330’s and some riced out preludes and the like. If I remember there were also some videos at the track of a 3.0L SC Cougar destroying a Vette and a Cobra.
I always considered the 3.0L swap the embodiment of what the new edge Cougr should have been. Well, that and a rear wheel drive setup!
NEW in the U.S. doesn’t mean much anymore!
Most folks are just trying to get buy week by week!
I think that the American Car needs to be a functional,cheap to operate,and simple to repair example of what Americans used to buy!
Why not put together a …lets say updated 61 Ford
Falcon
use the most highy manufactured basic components.
the most mass produced: alternator,starter,transmission,brakes,struts,cv joints,window motors..etc,etc,etc.
and RE-INTRODUCE the 2.3 four or a similar engine that can be cheaply modified by the owner.
Americans will start working on thier own cars now
that the economy is bad..and I dont see that changing for a while.
All american car companies had thier basic cool cars,I`m sure my idea would lend itself to Chrysler and G.M.
Nova….Valiant…
Sajeev…
I must hold off my American Car until I have test driven the new Ford EcoBoost.
(I HATE that name!)
If it turns out as well as all the review(er)s are proclaiming, it will have to be included in my concept.
You want a real American car?
Bring back the Chevette, only this time dress it up with some snazzy lightning-bolt decals, and insist with a straight face that it will “drive the Japanese back to their shores”.
Now that’s a real American car.
A real American ‘car’ would be a Ford F-Series truck with a Cummins diesel (or, better yet, a big-ass Detroit Diesel… might need to enlarge the engine bay a bit, though.)
another vote for some sort of uber Panther
I have no desire for some large, barge of a car, and if that is what a real American car is, then it is a good thing the whole industry is collapsing.
Despite all the crap TTAC drops on them, I’d rather see the Tesla Model S be the future of American autos – it is good looking, eco-efficient and generally an exciting car. I like that they sell direct and that they are making stuff happen, unlike the Big 2.whatever.
Some of you guys are getting wayyyyyyyy off base with some of your suggestions. Remember it’s got to be simple enough for the bean counters to understand it.
FORD
Take the current Lincoln Town Car, bring back the NAV system, give it a stereo designed by guys who feel about sound quality the way Baruth feels about speed, drop the drive train from the Crown Victoria Police Interceptor in it, plush up the seats, and make the suspension engineers test and design it and revise it until you can lock the cruise control at 100MPH and be rock solid coast to coast on our interstate system.
Chrysler
The 300 has it just about right but banish the V6s as options. Either you get a HEMI V8 or an SRT HEMI V8, period. If you don’t like it, the salesman has a lovely FWD sedan to show you over here.
As far as the 300s “ass-tastic” interior is concerned: start building it to a higher standard, not to a price-point.
GM
Sadly there is almost nothing in the GM stable to fit the bill. Forget the old Caprice tooling, find the tooling from the mid 80s to early 90s Fleetwood. Big, square, long, vertical taillight, in your face AMERICAN luxury. Re-engineer it for Lexus levels of NVH, design a full frame that uses everything the General has learned about strengthening truck frames in the last decade of SUV insanity, drop a big torquey V8 and hell even use an Alison automatic to back it up. I don’t care how much HP it makes but it needs to make 400 lb/ft of torque at just off idle. Heck make it a turbo diesel and tell Mercedes to kiss your a**. The interior needs to be as comfortable as a living room on wheels.
Unfortunately nobody that runs one of these companies has the balls to do this. :(
Take the Dodge Challenger SE and make a Chrysler version. A new Chrysler Cordova. Add vinyl top, fine cornithian leather and shag carpet. Retain 3.5l V6 and four speed auto. Start prices at 19k
inferno red ford mustang convertible V8 – manual auto if truly american
Your 300 Sajeev Edition Chrysler seems like an ok deal. but there is no such thing as a pure american car anymore, or any other pure nationality for that matter. except maybe the Tata Nano… the world is too globalized to be able to do such a thing.
akatsuki : I have no desire for some large, barge of a car, and if that is what a real American car is, then it is a good thing the whole industry is collapsing.
It’s not for everyone…but…there is no real American car, and that’s precisely why the “whole industry is collapsing.”
thompson2
The navel being ‘too far’ from the hips is a strong indicator of a certain…ability, much treasured by most of the male population that realize what it means…think about it for a minute and you will get it…don’t think a specific posting is appropriate on pure, conservative TTAC, unfortunately. it is a physical trait that occurs more frequently in gymnasts, however
Sajeev
American car?
There wasn’t really such an animal.
There were American cars, but not one.
American cars came in lots and lots of sizes and styles.
Some were Big, some small and some fast.
Some big AND fast, others small and fast.
In the 50’s, when American cars were large and big finned(?), there was also the sleek Thunderbird or the Corvette.
In the 60’s, we had the big Caddies, Buicks Chyslers as well as the mid sized muscle cars.
So, what exactly stood out as THE American car?
And why should one do so today?
The only real category the American car misses out on is the super tech, super performing large family sedan.
This is won by MBW and MBenz.
But really, these are filling the 55 grand to 100K price category.
Not exactly a position desired for large market control and the “people’s” car.
Now, it does not matter if this sight thinks the MKS is an American car.
Its is, and it offers much more than any other competitor for the price.
My American cars (no trucks allowed) today…
The Caravan.
The MKS.
The 300.
The Corvette, Mustang and Charger and Challenger.
The Taurus (2009,10).
Malibu
Impala.
CTS.
Focus.
Jeep Wrangler.
Fusion.
paulie :American car? There wasn’t really such an animal. There were American cars, but not one.
American cars came in lots and lots of sizes and styles.Some were Big, some small and some fast. Some big AND fast, others small and fast.So, what exactly stood out as THE American car? And why should one do so today?
Paulie, this is only about current American cars whose blueprints (the parts, not their country of origin) are significantly more American than a Camry. Or Audi. Or whatever. But since you brought it up…
I am sure you can find the common traits in all of those cars you mentioned. If you can’t find the similarities in powertrain, styling, ride and handling compared to their foreign competition of their time, I really can’t help you see it from my point of view.
In the 50’s, when American cars were large and big finned(?), there was also the sleek Thunderbird or the Corvette.
In the 60’s, we had the big Caddies, Buicks Chyslers as well as the mid sized muscle cars.
1. The Corvette and Tbird from the 1950s were far larger than their imported competitors. And they had tailfins, even if they were small-ish.
2. Big Caddies were sleek and low to the ground. Massive too, but look at the lines of a Caddy to a Merc and tell me which one looks like its flying while standing still.
Wanna know what really bothers me?
The amount of confusion on this thread proves that Detroit doesn’t make enough American cars to tell the world who they are and what they’re made of. Back when owning a Cadillac actually meant something, asking for a strippo model with a V6 engine would get you laughed out of the showroom.
You think BMW has this problem? Even with the G35-37 nipping at its heels, everyone knows what makes them unique, and you don’t need Car and Driver giving them 1st place all the time to notice.
And if you think I’m calling for the death of the Fusion, Malibu, Focus, etc you are completely missing the point: Detroit’s unique selling point is making a few REAL American Cars (sedans?) besides the Mustang and Corvette.