Buickman writes:
Today GM marketing announced another $1,000 rebate on old invoice units. To check eligibility the dealer enters the VIN into a website. A dealer who has properly managed his inventory will not have any units in stock that qualify, and is thereby less competitive and penalized. Dealer trades become difficult at best and the customer is confused when told that the car they want is more than the identical car sitting next to it that they don’t want.
This same old confusing crap from the incompetent Mark LaNeve and his marketing minions is simply more of the confusing, distressed, brand damaging merchandising that drove us into bankruptcy court. As [GM CEO] Fritz [Henderson] makes his moves to trim and improve the executive ranks, he should immediately focus on the bogus and completely clean house at VSSM [Vehicle Sales, Service and Marketing].
Well, then how else does a company entice buyers to buy old inventory without discounting the newer, more desirable inventory?
Any buyer with enough brain power to operate an automobile should be able to understand the incentive program.
Buick61:
If the incentive addresses MY2008 vs MY2009 vs MY2010 you are exactly correct.
But average consumer doesn’t give a damn how long MY2009 car A has been sitting on the lot compared with MY2009 car B.
If the marketing dept in the Ren Cen bothered to do some (gasp!) work for a change, they could review dealers inventory and determine some correlation between features / trim level combinations that are not selling and discount those specific options, rather than discounting a business metric their customers don’t understand or care about.
Let’s say there isn’t a correlation between options or trim levels, but that there are a couple of older models with seat heaters sitting in Florida, or Aveo’s in Texas. Incentive the FL dealer $500 to ship it north and the TX dealer to ship it to the coast. Then give the corresponding dealers another $500 to accept the unit. In other words, send the slow sellers to the regions of the market where similar vehicles have not sold as slowly. Seems like a much better way to spend a $1000 incentive.
Marketing is not difficult, it just takes a little research and creativity. GM seems to have very little of both…
Stale bread sells at a discount. So that part is understandable.
The incentive is there in part so that the finance company can reduce the average age of its loans. So that’s understandable, too.
What isn’t so understandable is the plethora of options packages that help to create these problems. Given the cash crunch, what GM should be doing is what Honda does — offer a limited number of options and colors, so that its production costs are reduced and the inventory is less differentiated. If differentiation is important, then push it down to stuff that can be done at the dealer level, so that the manufacturer doesn’t have to worry about it.
Buickman is right on. Maybe GM’s VSSM should sit down and talk to him. He is out in the real world selling cars (and lots of them), I think they would be pleasantly surprised by how much they would learn. As far as an old invoice incentive….there has been so many mid year price increases that older units are already incentivized. I wonder what Buickman thinks of mid year price increases.
Years ago I was negotiating to buy a new Mitsu Montero. (Don’t ask.) I knew this was a low-demand vehicle so I thought there would be no problem getting one for slightly above the dealer cost. Since I had scouted one that I liked on the lot earlier, I had already figured the invoice and I was ready with a reasonable offer.
The salesman took a surprisingly hard line. When I asked him how he justified not selling me a car for $75 over invoice when he could replace it in inventory by next week, he patiently explained that this particular unit had been on the lot for several months, and the dealer had put a lot of floor-plan interest into it. For that reason, he had to ask a higher price for it.
It was the first time I’d ever heard the sales principle that says that the price on the seller’s most undesirable item should be continually increased until it sells.
Shortly after I choked with laughter, he took my $75 over invoice offer.
Dealer trades become difficult at best and the customer is confused when told that the car they want is more than the identical car sitting next to it that they don’t want.
If the car they don’t want is identical to the one they do want, would they then want it? I have to think there is some difference, and if only age within the same model year, then what does the consumer care?
“If differentiation is important, then push it down to stuff that can be done at the dealer level, so that the manufacturer doesn’t have to worry about it.”
Honda does a brilliant job at this particular aspect of the business. A few trim lines and a fairly long list of dealer installable options.
Porsche, on the other hand, is the poster child for option (and option pricing!) madness.
It’s almost as confusing as buying an airline ticket…
Here’s an idea: set a fair price on the car and sell it for that price. I don’t have to haggle over a refrigerator, I shouldn’t have to haggle for a car.
“Dealer trades become difficult at best and the customer is confused when told that the car they want is more than the identical car sitting next to it that they don’t want.”
Ha, that’s a good one, a dealer telling customers about incentives. If you go into the dealer unaware of the incentives then the dealer isn’t going to tell you about them.
Pch101:
Spot on. The huge variety of configurations would be interesting if this was Europe, where people actually order cars, but in the US it just means that the dealer selects the options instead of the manufacturer. Which generally doesn’t turn out so well. Not to mention the manufacturing inefficiency that is created by multiple stand-alone options.
On European cars, which historically sell much closer to sticker, it may be worth it to special order a car, but with a domestic car special ordering means giving up the huge discounts that come with taking what is on the lot.
Honda does a brilliant job at this particular aspect of the business. A few trim lines and a fairly long list of dealer installable options.
Porsche, on the other hand, is the poster child for option (and option pricing!) madness.
Which makes sense given the different markets. Porsche buyers who want to special-order their vehicle can choose from an extensive list of options and pay through the nose if they so desire. Honda buyers are much more likely to pick a model sitting on the dealer lot.
re: Samuel L. Bronkowitz:
“Here’s an idea: set a fair price on the car and sell it for that price. I don’t have to haggle over a refrigerator, I shouldn’t have to haggle for a car.”
You don’t have to haggle over anything. But most places will haggle over a fridge with you, and give you a lower price or throw in stuff, if you try. Generally big ticket item = haggling is possible. But you never have to.
You can go to CarMax, they don’t haggle. You won’t pay more than anyone else that bought from CarMax, but you’ll pay a lot more than people that bought elsewhere.
The government screws up letter delivery and loses billions on that monopoly every quarter. Then just take a look at the condition of the road system. Then they make you use ethanol, a fuel that uses more energy to produce than is achieved when it is burnt. (and they are burning up food)
Thank the last four administrations for the wonderful infrastructure upkeep but not sure why you’re beating up on the poor Post Office. They may have to continue pumping up the price of a stamp due to lots of reasons, least of which is incompetance. Its also been around since Benny Franklin kicked it off making it one of the oldest government run businesses. If that’s your example of government failure, then one can only hope the auto industry does as well.
re: Samuel L. Bronkowitz
We had a car maker that did exactly what you are discribing. It was called Saturn.
Talking about rebates….
My parents just yesterday bought a 2009 Mercedes E350 with $10k back from Mercedes. Something around $46k out the door including taxes and registration. The difficult part is finding something that you like on the dealer lots that hasn’t been loaded up with $7500 in options that you don’t really want anyway.
John Horner:
Porsche, on the other hand, is the poster child for option (and option pricing!) madness.
Yup. Challenge your co-workers. With the ‘Build your own Porsche’ website, see who can get a base $49K Cayman to over $100K the quickest.
It’s more fun than Minesweeper.
perhaps a bit more explanation is in order; this old invoice is only a single piece of an impossible puzzle. there are rates vs. rebates depending on model/body style/trim…or alternative rates with lessened rebates. one day you can get a GM discount from a salary employee friend, next it’s supplier price. belong to Farm Bureau, member of military? how about Cattleman’s Association? own a GM vehicle 99 or newer? got a Nissan…here’s $1500. has your dealer used his inventory allotment bonus coupons? they’re worth $250 and he can stack up to 8 on a single deal. how about retiree voucher? Goodwill Certificate? Customer Appreciation Certificate? credit union member? here’s $500. have a credit union that will do an Enclave lease? here’s $5,250 (can’t use w/ GM discount), CTS credit union lease? here’s $6,000. (can use w/ GM discount) how about the regular dealer bonus cash? how about the GM Hourly Employee Special Attrition Voucher (not the same as retiree voucher)?
let’s take a break and see which of these can be combined with which? which can be transferred to members of household and which can’t? what rates can the dealers bump and which can’t they? which GM card works with which incentive?
let’s look at the vehicle to verify which wheel/seat/mirror combo it has so we can reference the spreadsheet and see what additional credit is allowed.
okay back to the showroom for more…how about merchandising assistance allowances?…okay, I’m getting tired of typing. if you are still with me and haven’t seen your slide rule fail and can access a Rand McNally road atlas we can look into residency restrictions. please don’t move across the street durinig negotiations if it happens to be a different county. get your computer upgraded to more capacity, invest in an abbacus, borrow a sundial and hold on tight so we can continue…
on the other hand, it’s getting late in the day and it will all change tomorrow so screw it, let’s call it a night and start over when the new sheets arrive in the morning.
I agree; Buickman is right. GM’s incentive “system” is insane. It just perpetuates the idea that buying a car is like visiting an Arabian bazaar.
One reason I’m suspicious of the dealer cull is that Fitzmall (DC area and Florida) lost its GM and Chrysler franchises. This is a big network with no-haggle pricing; everything out there on the Internet. I suspect the real reason Fitzgerald got the axe is that other dealers felt he sold cars “too cheap” with low prices disclosed honestly up front.
no_slushbox: “You can go to CarMax, they don’t haggle. You won’t pay more than anyone else that bought from CarMax, but you’ll pay a lot more than people that bought elsewhere.”
Could you give us some actual examples of the difference? I just checked CarMax’s website for prices on some Camrys and an Equinox, and their pricing looks very competitive. And it’s transparent, with the MSRP, invoice, rebate and $99 doc fee clearly disclosed. I’ve been in CarMax stores, and have always been treated very well. Maybe (though I doubt it) I could haggle an OKC area Toyota dealer into selling me a new car cheaper than CarMax, but for the cost of going to Wisconsin or Maryland I can save the emotional bruising of verbal combat with a salesman, a “closer” and a sales manager. I sure wish they had a Hyundai franchise as well.
Wait, if I can find a credit union to do a lease on a CTS, I can do the GM F&F discount, plus $6k? Does that apply to a CTS-V as well?
ihatetrees : Porsche, on the other hand, is the poster child for option (and option pricing!) madness. …see who can get a base $49K Cayman to over $100K the quickest.
Get real…first, the base price on the Cayman is 50 large, and you can option it out really nicely for as little as 93 thousand, total (less tax, tag, and title, of course). So don’t exaggerate.
@MMH
yes CTS lease through any financial institution.
those who lease thru any qualify for the following… $6,000 not V.
N/A with lease to buy rebate, credit union member rebate, may not be offered as cash to client.
avail w/ :
GM-GMAC SFS pullahead, GMS,GMU (PEP), dealer emp, (N/A SAAB), military, college grad, GM card, Goodwill cert, pullboards, coupons, driver ed.
N/A rebate, apr, dealer cash, bonus cash, lease to buy special, instant value cert, GM retiree voucher.
I ACCEPT NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ACCURACY. check with your local dealer, or me personally, after all I do sell cars but these things can and do change all too frequently.
@Samuel L. Bronkowitz,
You don’t haggle when you buy a fridge!?! OMG I get about 10% off when I haggle for appliances.
Get real…first, the base price on the Cayman is 50 large, and you can option it out really nicely for as little as 93 thousand, total (less tax, tag, and title, of course). So don’t exaggerate.
Wow; you’re serious, aren’t you? :-)
I don’t have to haggle over a refrigerator
Why in the hell not?
Legend has it that if anyone figures out the GM incentive system a portal will open up so that Pinhead and the other Cenobites can drag that person to another dimension where they get tortured for all eternity.
50merc:
I’m talking about the CarMax used car superstores around Chicago.
The people are nice, but their used prices, at least when I’ve been shopping, are usually higher than the asking price for a similar used car at a new car dealer.
I’ve been at CarMax, sat in the salesperson’s office, showed him the online posting for an almost identical used car at another dealer (with a carfax record, etc.), but with a couple thousand lower asking price, and had the CarMax sales person say “that’s a pretty good price, you should probably buy it from them instead.”
I appreciate that honesty, but there are probably a lot of people going to CarMax to buy a used car without haggling, not knowing that they could pay a lower price if they just paid the asking price at another dealer, also without haggling.
here’s an oldie but a goodie, to show how they just don’t seem to get it. LaNaive shouldn’t be removed, he should be strung up.
How To Get a Free Vehicle
Jim Dollinger
Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Did you hear about the customer who went into a GM dealership? He qualified for the following:
AARP
GM Discount
Recent College Grad
Active Military
Olds Owner
Resident of North Central Region
GM Cardholder
Father who was a UAW Retiree
Owned Import
Took Overnight Test Drive
Incremental Allowance
Bonus Cash
Matching Downpayment
Needless to say, the car was FREE. He passed, saying he’d prefer to pay for a Toyota. The sales manager came in for the close and offered Two On Us. Didn’t work. The car was already FREE. As a last ditch effort, the manager offered to remove the emblems.
Customer left saying he’d get back in touch.
Who is John Galt?
“Who is John Galt?”
Not Mark LaNeve, obviously.
ajla – you’ve got it all wrong, it will awaken Cthulu and he will once again rule GM.
Okay guys, let’s get this straight.
Just because the dealers get a grand on old age inventory doesn’t mean they’re gonna give it to you, the consumers.
On the contrary, they’ll (the salespeople who actually get paid on this cash) push you toward these units only because it lines their pockets a bit thicker (as in 25% by most dealer standards).
In some/most cases, the dealers won’t even tell their salespeople about this money, and instead, suck it up themselves. We like to call it greed.
Anytime it’s old age cash, or dealer cash, you have to think and work harder on the deal.
Robert, if you want a complete diatribe about dealer greed, just let me know. I know dealers intimately and can deliver. And not just the same old crap that’s normally published.
@no_slushbox
This to me is the difference between buying a used car and a new car. EVERY used car is unique – some have been well cared for and carefully driven, some have not. With new cars, one sitting on one lot is the same as another of the same color and options, within the ability of manufacturing tolerances. So it is quite easy for Carmax to say “well go buy that one”. The competition for buying new cars should be far more cutthroat than for used cars. Carmax is charging extra for their theoretically more careful choice of cars and allegedly delightful buying experience. That is worth money to some people – not you or me evidently. :-)
Personally, I’m looking for a ’91 BMW 318is without a sunroof. In near mint condition. Talk about a needle in a haystack…. If I find one, I am quite willing to pay a small fortune for it.
MMH:
Can you please lay out the math/discounts for the $6K discount under the credit union lease?
Thanks.
re: Buickman: “How To Get a Free Vehicle”
The thing about “How To Get a Free Vehicle” is that it was written back in July 11, 2007, back when GM was a completely private corporation, headquartered in the most free market country in the world, not yet relying on any government assistance.
If, back in 2007, someone would have rather paid for a Toyota, a car made by a company headquartered in a nationalist socialist country where “The nail that sticks up gets hammered down” and “None of us are as smart as all of us”, than taken a free market GM for free, that doesn’t say much for Ayn Rand or her fictional character John Galt.
no_slushbox :
If, back in 2007, someone would have rather paid for a Toyota, a car made by a company headquartered in a nationalist socialist country where “The nail that sticks up gets hammered down” and “None of us are as smart as all of us”, than taken a free market GM for free, that doesn’t say much for Ayn Rand or her fictional character John Galt.
I’m afraid that you may have let your subscription to ‘The Periodic Guide for American Content in Autos’ expire. It seems that the Toyota Camry has a higher American content than many of the GM branded vehicles.
On the other hand, that ‘nationalist socialist country’ you mention sounds a lot more like the one I wake up in every day then it did in 2007.
He passed, saying he’d prefer to pay for a Toyota.
LOL. Ouch.
Imaging all of GM’s incentives were wiped clean with a real bankruptcy. In place of them, a simple, nationwide marketing and advertising effort based on a few no haggle, out the door prices. The bankruptcy judge makes dealers take it or become Old-GM refuse.
Malibu’s: $14K, $16K and $18K – depending on option group.
Silverado’s: $16/20/24 K, depending on option group.
No haggling. Allow dealers to finance, but keep slime-ball dealer antics down with phantom shoppers from corporate.
simple is the goal. streamlining makes sense. no haggle won’t hold, moreso from the customers’ insistence on dealing. give the dealers margin and let them do what they do best.
most in need of correction though is the disease, not the symptoms. LaNaive has to go and soon! from reliable sources I hear his time is near.
scary though is that Bent Dover (W.W. Brent Dewar) is coming back from Europe. he’s as dangerous as anybody, thinks he knows the business and is flat ignorant about the car biz. I’m convinced he’s related to someone or has pictures.
Lokkii :Wow; you’re serious, aren’t you? :-)
I wouldn’t have believed it, but you can create a really really nice Cayman for 93 grand, and optioned out you could probably hit a bit over 100. Just imagine what you could do with a 911 turbo!
The good news for GT2 buyers is that the list of options is actually pretty slim, so your 194 thousand Obama-bucks goes a bit farther in the standard equipment department. When the revolution comes, THESE will be the FIRST to go, comrade.
re: Caraholica:
That Toyota assembles one of its highest volume US cars in the US does not really prove anything except that cargo ships cost money.
As imperfect as Obama’s reaction to the failure of GM, Chrysler and major financial institutions has been, it must be noted that they all failed before he became president, in the economic system that existed before he became president.
The nationalist socialist Japanese government has not had to take over any failed automakers, so I’m afraid that we have not become more like them since 2007.
@ buickman
I’m convinced he’s related to someone or has pictures.
In Australia we call those sorts of unfortunate pictures “Doggy Photos”. (Or is that “fortunate” if you’re the holder of evidence).
you’ve got it all wrong, it will awaken Cthulu and he will once again rule GM.
“That is not dead, which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even Death may die.”
That does sound a bit like the government-guided GM bankruptcy process now that you mention it….
Don’t forget the USAA members $750 rebate!!
Old cars on the lots are a BIG problem… but their solution is small/confusing/disjointed.
For whatever reason certain specific cars don’t sell.. Wrong options, wrong color, that car was being washed out back when the ONE guy who wants it is driving past the lot.. Whatever…
Cars don’t have expiration dates.. Two new ones should have the same value, but because of the all the financial gymnastics an “old” new car is not something you want to keep around…
GM should run a program to pick up all the unwanted cars once or twice a year. Maybe use them as company cars, put some miles on them and sell them as lightly used/with a full factory warranty through eBay or CarMax. Keeping them in the sales channel screws everyone.
I know I speak blasphemy here: I would have taken the free GM car. I was only a kid when my family got their first and only toyota, a 84 corolla station wagon. Thing was a total pain. Sure, if you live close your dealer and take the machine for all the prescribed service, they are great cars. But move the closest dealer 50 miles away, and toyota ownership becomes a real pain, since the dealer network is not their to support the little machines as they rot away without the dealer there to cover up all the bumps in the design.
However, given that Toyota is begging the Japanese government for money (yes, they have applied for government loans in Japan), and that GM is now a Union & Government run entity, I have no taste for either brand.
Also, in defense of the new camaro, I don’t think it is a lemming car. If GM had gone into bankruptcy without government loans & assistance, I’d have probably already have bought one for my driveway and heavy right foot. GM’s insistance of doing the wrong thing for the most comfortable option, has lost them what could have been a lifetime customer.
My capitalist ideology is stronger than my brand loyalty.
Additionally, no_slushbox, CRA is the root cause for the credit market disaster. Which basically was when the government intervened in credit markets to make them more friendly to people who couldn’t really pay their loans. We can fully blame Republican and Democrats for allowing it to go as far as it did. But we CANNOT blame the free market economy. The free market simply responded in kind to failed government market intervention.
Till we can admit this, the mistake will be repeated over and over, add infiniteum, until the public fully believes a planned economy is the best economy. Which will be the loss of freedoms for Americans in the end.
As a recent purchaser of a Saturn Astra, I can verify that GM’s incentives are nuts. The car had a $4,000 discount, plus a $1,000 loyalty discount, a $750 discount for GM Visa, an $800 student discount, “free” air conditioning from the dealer (a further $1150 discount in Canada), and I also used a $2500 discount from another credit card. I had to correct the dealer when she gave me the price, as the data base she initially checked did not have the most recent discounts. Some discounts were before tax, others were after tax. The loyalty discount was for having a GM car, the student bonus was for first time car buyers. (How anyone can qualify for both is beyond me.) I had to get a GMAC loan to get the student discount (Which I will pay off in 2 months, as the discount is $400 off the first two payments. Oddly, the dealer gave me a cheque upfront for this discount!). I bought the car in a town with a GM plant, and she put in a further $1200 employee discount before I told her I didn’t think I was eligible for that! (I guess I should have argued that as long as my government owns part of the firm, I should be eligible!) In the day between buying and picking up the car, the discounts changed – the loan rate had dropped, so the documents had to be changed so I would save a further $25 on the 2 month loan.
re:Aqua225:
I bet you think you’re really smart blaming the CRA, just like the brilliant people that think 9/11 and the moon landing were staged. Why doesn’t everyone “get it” like you do.
CRA has been in effect since 1977, how come it took 30 years for it to make the economy collapse?
The CRA affected only a very small percentage of mortgages, and the CRA affected sub-prime mortgages had higher repayment rates than non CRA sub-prime loans.
I live in an affluent Chicago suburb and own my house with a 30 year fixed rate loan. The white professional across the street from lost his $750,000 house because he bought it with an ARM, and the white professional next to me lost his $460,000 house because he bought it with an ARM.
They were not part of the CRA program, but they destroyed a huge amount of value with the foreclosures on their expensive homes.
For a while during the boom I worked as a mortgage broker at Countrywide writing sub-prime mortgages (quite lucrative). Countrywide was, by far, the largest sub-prime lender in the country. Since Countrywide wasn’t a bank the CRA didn’t, by law, have any control over Countrywide’s lending. Most of my sub-prime borrowers were upper middle class white people with bad credit or undocumented income. We didn’t do sub-prime loans for low-income people because the commissions on a house under $250,000 generally didn’t make it worth our time to do those loans.
Do you know how many wealthy idiots speculated on developments in south Florida, Arizona and Nevada. These were NOT CRA loans.
In addition, it’s not really the bad loans, but the unregulated (i.e. no government intervention) credit default swaps that speculators used to bet on loan failures, that really crashed the system. These CDSes did not gain widespread popularity until right before the economic collapse.
Blaming the CRA is just a crutch for racist people that get their world view from Rush Limbaugh. I’m white, and I don’t like affirmative action, I’m happy the Supreme Court found for Ricci ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricci_v._DeStefano ). But I’ve been in positions that allow me to know what really caused the economic collapse instead of relying on third party conspiracy theories. It was upper middle class white people using stuipid loans (ARMs, Pay Option ARMs) to buy houses they couldn’t afford, and then investment banks speculating on the failure off those loans with CDSes, not minorities buying inexpensive houses that they usually could afford.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap
Moreover, GM and Chrysler were already failing before the economic collapse. The economic collapse just hastened their failures. They were destroyed by capitalist managers that thought they could con the masses into buying crappy cars with marketing and creative financing instead of good engineering.
The reality is that automakers, along with other companies, do better in relatively more socialist countries like Japan and Germany than they do in the US. The USSR was absolutely horrible, much worse than US kleptocracy, but the answer is generally nuanced and in the middle, not simple and at the extremes. The wealthy Goldman Sachs partners will leave America for greener pastures when they need to, like parasites moving on to the next host, but the people that they conned will be stuck here whining about the CRA.
Dealers would get more showroom traffic if people could easily determine which discounts apply in a particular situation. The complexity and confusion of GM’s crazy-quilt incentives is self-defeating. How can dealers advertise low prices when even they can’t know in advance how many discounts might be applicable for an individual and his or her desired brand/model/equipment/vintage/location/VIN/financing/etc.?
It appears deanst bought his new Astra for about 60% of MSRP. Who needs cash for clunkers?
Anyone know the extent to which Ford plays this byzantine incentive game? Maybe I can get $8,000 off sticker on a Fusion because I’m left-handed and own a Model A.
as predicted, new sheets today. more bonus cash for employee deals. notice that more incentives coming out this afternoon…
hundreds of responses to this latest posting here and on GeneralWatch.com flowing in from across America.
even some of the most loyal GM’ers raging against the stupidity.
“no_slushbox”
No, I know I am smart by blaming CRA.
It took 30 years because the efficacy of the law kept being enhanced during various congressional terms, by both Republicans and Democrats.
The CRA is responsible for lowering the general standards. The reason being is that the enhancements that occured over the years to make home ownership easier. The lending institution gradings, etc. The banks couldn’t readily drop the bar for some borrowers and hold it higher for others, so the same lax standards began to be applied to everyone. How could you possibly ignore the fact that the big credit market problem was the trading of derivatives based on bad loans? Are you just so intellectually influenced by the far left you can’t grasp this concept? Fed chairman after Fed chairman allowed the derivate trading to continue because it “spread the risk around”. The thinking that as long as the economy was “booming” the risk could be deferred through the derivatives trading market, so this false sense of “money cow” derivatives was allowed to persist (one point where government regulation would have actually been OK).
The CRA problem is dead on exactly responsible for your “white suburban affluent neighbor’s” failure. CRA caused a general weakening of borrowing standards. After all, banks couldn’t “lower the bar” for one group of people, and NOT lower the bar for the others —- or do you insist these folks should have been discriminated against? Typical liberal left reasoning failure, that infected the right as well, you can single out parts of your society for special treatment, and expect the rules not to slide in that direction: especially when the banks had a “feeling” the big government coffers would step in to save them from oblivion when the house of cards came crashing down (like they did, or did you not remember TARP in your post, either?). Can you really expect the banks to operate idealistically like you claim? I guess your are really as gullible as you seem about CRA and banking in general.
I have no racist world view: you do. You expect borrowing to be enhanced if you are a minority, but to not be enhanced if you are not. Whatever. You are the racist idiot you are implying me to be. You are so self righteous and WRONG, you stink of it.
Yes, GM and Chrysler were failing before the credit crunch, because of more leftist ideology: UAW. What qualifies as leftist thinking other than the literal worker’s paradise UAW achieved? Ever read about this cold war superpower called the soviet union? Probably not, you’ve been in a little paradise world of your leftist professor’s design for evidently pretty much all of your life.
I don’t like to flame, but in your case I have made a exception. I am sure the moderators here can note that you called me a idiot and racist and a Rush Limbnaugh lemming in your post.
You are, instead of me, the racist idiot leftwing wikipedia lemming.
Wikipedia has a left bias that is palpable, and you expect me, a free market idealist to even remotely think that a politically charged subject such as CRA and credit crisis will have even a half way reasonable criticism in a left wing free encyclopedia?
What do you think I was born stupid???? Whatever.
check out this email from GM, even their own software is incorrect. if you called your customer about the additional incentive, by the time they arrived, it was altered and they couldn’t do what you said you could. GM is one fucked up company.
“Please be advised that the new Employee Bonus Cash was NOT intended to be compatible with the outboarded APR’s. We are now in the process of getting this corrected to make it not compatible with outboarded APR. Please advise that currently VIN Lookup shows that the two are compatible, however they are in fact not. A formal communication is forthcoming, but wanted to pass this along as I’ve already had a few inquiries.”
just told that old invoice is not determined by invoice date. it’s 15% of your oldest eligible units. could be you have 2 old Impalas and the newer one qualifies but the older one doesn’t.
SOMEBODY FIND LANEVE AND THROW HIS ASS OUT THE REN CEN WINDOW ASAP!!! as in today please!!!
i got a new plymouth sapporo for nearly free, sort of. it was back during chrysler’s early 80s going out of business sale, so after all the cashbacks, etc. the thing was $7k. Then, I basically totalled my previous car, but since it was just body damage and the running gear was fine and i liked it and wanted to fix it, rather than totalling it and me going through the salvage process, they just gave me $3k and let me keep the car. before i could get around to fixing it, i totalled it again, destroying the engine this time; and amazingly, the insurance company paid me another $3k, and kept the hulk this time. so, for a net outlay of $1k cash, i had me a brand new car. first new car i ever owned, and looks like probably the only one.