A 2008 Suzuki Forenza. After reading the owner reviews, it pained me to even think about buying the car. I found a 2008 S model on eBay for $6700 (incl. bogus fees). Only 7500 miles? What a deal! But for whom? Since this car was sub-par for a multitude of ‘too cheap for their own good’ owners, I deep-sixed it. That left on eBay a Kia Rio LX, a Chevy Aveo LT, a Ford Focus SE (with about 15k more miles), and the ringer: a 2008 Toyota Yaris. Prices/mileage were $7100/16k, $8000/21k, $8500/33k and, ahem, $10,700 with 12k. All automatics. All with power windows/locks. None with sunroofs or any other high end stuff. Just good solid A to B transportation with a lot of good owner feedback. On second thought, screw it. I don’t believe a tightwad would be happy with real world fuel economy in the mid-20s so I’m nixing the Aveo. Begone! As for the other three . . .
You may remember that I lambasted the Kia Rio in a prior review. And, yes, as a new car in stripper form, it’s as competitive as Cyndi Lauper taking on Andre the Giant. But give it some power features, a/c, power steering, and depreciation worthy of a Korean car and the story changes. Owners apparently like it in this trim. So I drove one. It’s nice, in a very average sort of way. In fact I found it to be almost identical in function and form to a Chevy Cobalt. The ride is quiet. Seats are comfortable. In automatic form, the mileage stays above 30. The LX offers a trip computer, cruise. It’s cheap but functional. Blah, blah, blah. Heck it’s a damn long lost Korean twin of the Chevy Cobalt LT.
Other pluses? Kia has a five year/60,000 mile warranty on it even if it’s bought used. Cobalts have a five year 100,000 mile warranty. But who cares? This is average reliable transportation. If you’re looking for average A to B and value cost über alles, a Chevy Rio or Kia Cobalt will likely do fine for those friends of yours who can’t tell the difference.
The Ford Focus? Well, now we’re getting somewhere interesting. Yes, Robert panned it and buying a 2008 still puts you in the first year of the model run. But the owners apparently like it a lot. Even more so than the Rio/Cobalt that is going on an average 4.5 blah years.
Why? Well, I can absolutely say with 100+ percent certainty that the seats are better. The stereo system with SYNC is a far nicer setup. The engine is a bit more playful. It’s ugly (godawfully) but in virtually all respects it seems like a step-up from the other two. If you’re willing to pay a small premium and go against the anti-spending nature of a true tightwad, the Focus is a pretty good model. Farago be damned.
Finally we have the Yaris. I’ve driven a Toyota for 12 years but somehow this four-door model struck me as bland and weird. Gauges just don’t belong in the center. I understand the ergonomics and cost justification. But it’s . . . well . . . just haunting to drive with no readouts in front of you. I never got over that. The ride is a bit more detached than the others. But the quality is evident and I can see this vehicle still on the road in 20 years. The others?
12 years? Definitely. 15 years? With enough care and a conservative driving style that would be fine. 20 years a la Paul Niedermeyer’s neighbor? Well there’s the sign of true frugality. But I really don’t know if the economies of car ownership are going to change dramatically by that time. I’m inclined to say, “Yes.” So with another near-new car purchase needed between 2020 and 2025, I would dictate the following.
The hardcore tightwad who is apathetic towards cars would be fine with a near-new Rio or the common Cobalt. Audiophiles can put the Focus on the list. The fearful would choose the Yaris. Although a Nissan Versa would be a far better deal. And there’s the rub. If you want cheap AND good you have to accessorize and customize these cars. With the enthusiast in mind I would say screw all of them and buy a Versa. On the cheap of course.
I don’t pay much attention to this segment of the market. All the cars in this group instill as much interest and excitement in me as does my GE refrigerator. Or is it a Whirlpool? I forget.
My history with Hyundai/Kia says that after 60,000 you are looking at problems with the drive train – good idea to nix them off the list used.
The Suzuki – that’s a Daewoo (one of GM’s rebadgings since they purchased Daewoo) so it would be off the list right off the bat. Not all of Suzuki’s cars are rebadged Daewoos, but quite a few are now.
The Focus or the Yaris would be the two I’d narrow it down too, and perhaps the Focus over the Yaris because parts would be so common it would be relatively inexpensive to fix unless it came down to a major issue.
I’ve actually checked out this segment a lot and IMO the Versa wins handily. For cost of ownership I like the fact that it has a timing chain, not a belt that has to be replaced every 30,000. In the performance category a Versa comes with a 6spd manual, pretty good for an econo car. Things I didn’t like about it was that it had virtually no trunk, even as a hatchback. Although to be fair what car in this segment has one to begin with? Also the seats were a little weird, like flush against the door when closed albeit extremely comfy. Comfy is for civilians and I am SPAHHHTTAANN. At least thats what I used to scream when I was driving around my Toyota Tercel, anyone remember that one? Versa also comes with audio in jack and some other nice stereo options. What did I end up doing? I went up one class into an Elantra hatchback 06′ auto. I still kinda wish I had that 6spd manual sometimes but I am thankful for the fold flat seats when my 100lb lab retriever goes for a ride. Although the Versa had an awesome backseat it is absolute insane trying to get dog hair out of that velour like fabric.
Why didn’t you include Suzuki SX4 in this list?
Sorry, but I find Versa more ugly then Focus. Practical being a hatchback but ugly. I’m guessing that’s French influence.
I don’t pay much attention to this segment of the market.
You should. How well a manufacturer builds it’s bottom-feeders is a bellwether for the rest of the lineup.
If they compromise here, you can bet they’ve not the desire or ability to keep up the rest of the lineup. For many makes, the rot of decontenting starts at the low end and, irresistibly makes it’s way up.
Put it this way: building a “Cost no-object” car is easy because, well, cost is no object. You don’t have to be constrained by profit-vs-liability, your owners can and are buying a discretionary toy, you have plenty of margin to buy quality (or pay warranty). With an automotive hairshirt, you’ve got a whole boatload of compromises to consider: these cars sell in huge volumes and at low margins, and anything that increases costs by pennies can swing that margin marker by millions of dollars. The pressure and temptation to build’em badly is hard to resist.
If you drive a Yaris or Fit back-to-back with an Aveo or Rio, this is readily apparent. While none of these cars are going to have leather-wrapped, hand-stitched-by-virgins dashboards, the Yaris and Fit’s mechanicals feel a good cut above their competitors. The engines get much better mileage, the power-to-weight ratio is better, the packaging is brilliant. And they are, if you believe the statistics, reliable as the sunrise. By comparison, the Aveo and Rio feel like they’re built to a lower spec.
The Versa is a tricky one. It’s also a very good car, probably nicer than the Fit and definitely moreso than the Yaris—but the reliability is a question. Unlike a cost-no-object car, buyers of near-new subcompacts hold their rides to a very high standard not just out of expectation, but out of necessity. Not only would they not tolerate flakiness in the name of heritage, the often can’t afford it. The Renault-addled Versa is a good car, but it’s not as statistically solid and I’d worry about what they had to sacrifice to make a car this good price-competitive with the more meager entries in this class.
I’d buy the Yaris. It’s exceedingly cheap to own (not just fuel, but maintenance; Echos and Yarises go a long ways on the original brakes and tires), solid (every owner I know has had zero problems, save for one guy who smacked his up) roomy (that centre-mount dash frees up a lot of room for the driver), and, in hatchback form, quite versatile.
IIRC, the Forenza’s real world mileage isn’t exceptional.
I’d try to find a used SX4 – while the mileage isn’t as high, it handles decenly, looks good, and the back seats are actually comfortable – very high off the floor – it feels roomier than a Grand Vitara, or even an Infinity EX.
Even though it doesn’t make a ton of sense warranty wise, a slightly older Focus ST would be worth a drive. Kind of sporty, kind of fast, a bit of a sleeper, with a more spacious feeling cabin than a Mazda3.
There are some amazing values at this end of the market. I’ve got a friend who is a decent mechanic, having lived through all sorts of BMW’s and modding same. He is currently living in “very low profile” mode with a paid-off house and no bills, so chooses to drive something that gets good fuel mileage. He picked up a used Suzuki Esteem wagon several years ago that was in need of a transmission overhaul for under $1k, fixed the transmission and now is delighted that he’s getting mileage in the high 30’s for a mix of driving. I’ve ridden in it and it will never make car of the year, but as basic transportation, it’s a decent little car. My friend is delighted!
“For cost of ownership I like the fact that it has a timing chain, not a belt that has to be replaced every 30,000.”
FYI, Timing belt change intervals are much longer than 30k miles these days. I know that the Honda V-6 belt change interval is 105k miles and that the current Ford Focus interval is 120k miles.
The Suzuki – that’s a Daewoo (one of GM’s rebadgings since they purchased Daewoo) so it would be off the list right off the bat. Not all of Suzuki’s cars are rebadged Daewoos, but quite a few are now.
Fortunately, as of MY2009, Suzuki no longer sells rebadged Daewoos in the States.
Intersting that no one even considers used Hondas here. Are the residuals on used Fits and Civics that high?
To me, the safety and comfort of a midsize sedan outweigh the fuel economy of this class. For $9K, I would go with a 5 year old Accord or similar over any of the above.
^Yes, Hondas tend to have higher resale. I once thought about trading in a used ’98 Civic and the Honda dealer made me a very impressive offer on it.
roomy (that centre-mount dash frees up a lot of room for the driver)
I don’t care. The IP should be in front of the driver like God (Allah/Buddha/your choice) intended. A friend fell in love with the xB, but was worried about getting used to the center-mounted speedo. He bought it, but after a year traded off because he never acclimated to the IP. How much more can it possibly cost to move it to the left? Scion did on the xD….a less expensive car than the xB. Weird for weird’s sake.
Timing chain? Praise the lord! I wasn’t sure if anybody was using timing chains on anything but truck V8s. I know guys that timing belt change intervals are longer now but what’s the point of belts over chains anyway? My 87 Oldsmobile had a timing chain on the 307 V8 and that was about the only thing that didn’t break over 200,000 miles that I had it. A good timing chain NEVER needs to be replaced during the normal life of the car. Why use a disposable belt?
And don’t try to tell me that belts are quieter, I’ve never been able to hear a damn bit of difference from one to another.
SherbornSean :
July 2nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
To me, the safety and comfort of a midsize sedan outweigh the fuel economy of this class. For $9K, I would go with a 5 year old Accord or similar over any of the above.
I second that logic. The gas savings doesn’t mean squat when your legs are crushed in an accident. That’s if you live. Your chances aren’t so good, even when hitting a mid-size car like the Accord. Check out iihs.org for their smash-em-up of the Fit vs the Accord or the Yaris vs the Camry. Not good. Now imagine tangling with anything larger – you’re a goner.
I’d rather drive a decent color 4-yr old Buick LeSabre and have a huge trunk, much more room, and safety that comes with it. It also gets around 30 MPG highway. Screw the sporty driving experience at that price.
You didn’t include the Cobalt in the list.
I’d take a Focus or Cobalt. The maintenance on those 2, being domestics, should be dirt cheap.
Perfect timing for this article. I’ve been looking at new cars but I don’t want to take the hit on depreciation (especially on the G8 I really want) so I’ve switched to plan B: something under $10k that’s bulletproof and gets good mileage. Then in a year or 2 I can buy a gently-used and already-depreciated G8 or CTS V. My choice from this list is the Focus for the SYNC system. I’m also tempted to spend a bit more and buy Mitsubishi Lancer as mentioned by Steven in a previous article ($12k fully loaded with navi).
After my daughter totaled her Aerio over a year ago, I bought her a Forenza. This car has been unfairly abused by the press. Go drive one then decide. I liked it so much, I just traded my Tacoma for a new 2008.
The engine is made by Holden (GM) Australia. The automatic transmission designed by ZF in Germany.
There is a 100,000 mile TRANSFERABLE drivetrain warranty. My daughter has the automatic, I have the stick.
The car handles well and is fun to drive. Low profile tires, nice interior. Good standard options.
This car is a nicer car than the Focus or Cobalt. It is more fun to drive than a Pontiac G6.
So many people slam the car as a “Daewoo”, well, after owning Daewoo and VW, I will take Daewoo anyday.
$5k buys a nice clean reasonable mileage 2002 – 2004 Hyundai Sonata. Much better deal in my mind.
Twotone
Unless your budget is really low, a loaded YaRioFit can be as much as another base or some-options car one size up. MPG with the upsized car probably is less though.
I looked at and sat in these at Chicago auto show this year. I dunno, reminded me of the early 80’s ToyDatsonda’s some friends had. Basic A to B but keep ’em more than 5 years, NFW. I think people keep more upsized/luxurious cars&trucks longer than get one of these YaRioFit ’cause it kinda sucks to down in size.
psarhjinian, I’m not sure where you’ve come up with the Versa having questionabe reliability? I’m not sure about in the US, but here in NZ (where it is sold as Tiida, and built in Japan) we haven’t had any problems with it?
The Cobalt or Pontiac G5 are both easy and cheap to repair and service, and they have above average reliablity, esp the drivetrains. The other thing that they have is plenty of low-end torque in their flexible base engines. You don’t have to rev them to enjoy performance or climbing power. The Civic we recently rented was rather lacking in that department.
If you really want to be daring, a 2003-05 Cavalier has the Cobalt drivetrain, more interior room, and around 200lbs less weight. In LS Sport trim they are rather nice, much nicer and more capable then any Yaris. The only functional short-coming is the seats, at least for heavier folks. A set of Coverking custom fit covers is an easy remedy.
Toyota (and Yaris) paint quality is awful.
Google Toyota paint problems.
“Google Toyota paint problems.”
So I did. Interesting reading. In summary, it looks like a lot of people need to be introduced to the concept of “waxing their cars.”
I’m not sure about in the US, but here in NZ (where it is sold as Tiida, and built in Japan) we haven’t had any problems with it?
The North American Versa is built in Mexico. I’m not faulting Mexican workers per se, but plant of origin can make a huge difference for what would otherwise be an identical product (see: 99-03 Ford Focus, for example)
The echoes of my guffaws reverberate through the shanty after reading about the Cobalt warranty.
Relating to my experiences with GM warranty coverage (actually the severe lack thereof) I would give NO credence to any GM warranty and relegate it to what is known in the advertising world as puffery.
I can’t imagine a GM sales critter keeping a straight face when mentioning the warranty coverage.
Your mileage may vary.
Versa/Tiida. My most hated car ever, the sedan even more so. Sized and priced in no mans land between Yaris/Corolla, it is an utterly miserable car.
Speaking of Yaris, a few years ago i drove one and the Rio. I easily preferred the Rio, it feel more solid & refined & the interior materials while hard, felt much better quality & more substantial than in the Yaris which felt and drove like a horrid penalty box. The Rio is a great A-B runabout car imo
psarhjinian: “The North American Versa is built in Mexico. I’m not faulting Mexican workers per se, but plant of origin can make a huge difference for what would otherwise be an identical product (see: 99-03 Ford Focus, for example)”I remember looking at a brand-new, Mexican-built Focus on a dealer’s lot once. The rear hatch wouldn’t latch properly (it just kind of flopped around loose). It was pretty egregious that a defect like that would get past quality control at the factory (even for a bottom-feeder, $10k, no A/C, strippo econobox like that Focus).
The Mexican-built Dodge Neon didn’t exactly enjoy a sterling quality reputation, either.
Steven,
Can you email @ rokem@netzero.net? A friend of mine had two cars die, is looking for a couple of four door sedans and I was wondering what you had in inventory.