The issue: the optional HID headlights of the circa-2006 Prius are prone to turning off at random times, usually not at the same time. When this happens, they must be turned off, then on again. To fix the problem, Toyota dealers sometimes recommend replacing the entire HID system, at a cost of $1,700. Owners are launching a class action suit to force Toyota to cover these failures out of warranty. “Prius headlamp troubles could dim Toyota brand’s reputation,” writes Jean Halliday in yesterday’s Advertising Age and Automotive News. I’ve suggested that manufacturers pick up the cost of common problems out of warranty. That said, this story seems driven more by a media agenda rather than by the facts.
I checked responses to TrueDelta’s Car Reliability Survey for any additional information they might provide. Quite a few owners have reported this problem, yet the Prius still has among the lowest repair frequencies. In all but one case, replacing the bulb seems to fix the problem. Non-OEM bulbs can be purchased on eBay for $90 per pair.
So why do we have an article in Automotive News? Many car models suffer from common problems, and there are plenty of class action lawsuits begging for coverage. Yet I cannot remember the last time AN covered such a problem.
And if they’re going to pick one common car problem to cover, why this one? These headlight failures don’t appear to have left anyone stranded, much less caused an accident. While dealers might try to charge $1,700, it is possible to fix the problem for as little as $90.
The allure appears to be Toyota’s quality reputation and the widespread desire to take them down a notch or two. A quick read of the comments suggests that some people would like to use this problem as evidence that Toyota’s quality is no better than anyone else’s.
Should Toyota pick up the cost of replacement bulbs? Yes, if they’re smart. The biggest story here is that they didn’t respond more quickly—a sign that their customer care needs improvement. The facts do not support the extent to which AN calls Toyota’s reputation into question, much less singling them out for this treatment.
Toyota’s slow and barely perceptable transformation into the old GM is creeping foward.
“The biggest story here is that they didn’t respond more quickly–a sign that their customer care needs improvement.”
Check back in 2030 or so when they’ve hit bottom and the Chinese start suffering the same symptoms.
If eBay has HID bulbs for $90 a pair, Toyota’s cost is half. And why is it letting dealers rip customers $1,700 on an item that should cost a fraction of that?
When you’re No. 1 people will take shots at you. It’s human nature. Toyota is foolish to make its corporate ass such an inviting target for a lousy $25 light bulb. It’s just so incredibly dumb.
All of this assumes that there is a statistically proven failure rate for HID’s that is above the normal failure rate. Given Toyota’s adherence to Demming’s methods, I’d say they know the failure rate and it’s in line or below the standard, thus it’s not a big deal statistically speaking.
Lamps and Ballasts are wear items, just like tires and brake pads. They have a limited lifespan which is largely influenced by number of strikes (the lamp being lit) and how long the lamp is used each time. Short durations are worse than long duration, lamp wise.
Everything is more expensive at the dealer, why does that surprise anyone? It’s overhead, a captive parts supplier, and requirements for customer sat scores that keep the price higher than Joe’s bulb shack on ebay.
Joe can get away with selling 2nd/3rd tier bulbs to DIY’s. If there is a failure, the difference in price helps justify the failure and he doesn’t have to worry about getting dinged on the survey back to the Toyota mothership or having the customer bad mouth him to their neighbors who might be in a car buying mood.
The dealer takes the smart route to reduce repair trips for the customer, and help ensure higher scores. If the system has a problem, replace it all. If you only replace one part (lamp) as it turns out to be a ballast or assembly issue that requires 2 more trips back, that is a serious service issue for the customer and the sat score.
I’d bet that it turns out to be a non issue, statistically speaking and the complaining owners want dealer level service for ebay prices.
You buy a car with HID’s, be prepared to pay for the upkeep.
Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have had problems with their cars the past 15 years that in some cases was trumpeted in the news and other cases not. The deciding factor was how they reacted to the problem. Honda was known to have distributor problems, so much so that cottage industries sprang up offering rebuilt units cheaper than the dealer sold.
I see a potential business in this, if the stealer charges 1.7K to fix this I bet a simple kit with new bulbs and instructions on DIY would fetch 200 or 300 dollars. More than gathering the parts but cheap enough to make the dealers rethink their business model of overcharging.
There are some rules on labor charges and time required to perform tasks. Part prices are set by the manufacturer and usually marked up by the dealer, only competition will bring that down not lawsuits. Bad press might do the trick. If this is labeled a safety defect the gummint might be able to twist a few arms.
Maybe if Bawny Fwank drove one and had the problem he could make a call.
On the surface, this story sounds like it costs $1700 to replace headlights, which most people consider to be a consumable item like tires. I might be inclined to go postal if a dealer told me I had to pay $1700 for replacement headlights. No wonder this makes the news.
I do think that the failure rate is higher than normal.
The $1,700 is for those instances where the dealer replaces the entire HID system. Looking through the repair histories posted to TrueDelta, this appears to be overkill, since only one of the people who replaced only the bulb has reported a return of the problem.
Maybe the problem will return in another 40,000 miles, but replacing the bulbs every 40,000 miles would still be more cost effective than replacing the entire system.
As reported by Jean Halliday in AdAge, Toyota is getting hammered on the ‘net and in court by Prius owners who insist that the darlings of the green car world have faulty optional high-intensity discharge headlamps that can cost as much as $1,000 to replace. Although Toyota hasn’t been asked by NHTSA to address this issue, if Toyota appears to continue to dance around issuing a blanket internal order to fix the headlamps – which conjures up memories of their stone-walling in the Camry oil sludge problem of a few years ago – then things could go from bad to worse for Toyota’s image. As Peter told AdAge: “If Toyota moves quickly, the whole thing will blow over.” But if not, there will be “ill will” among owners because “word-of-mouth is still the most powerful form of advertising.” Why is Toyota repeating past mistakes? By letting this HID headlamp issue fester “out there” in the real world it will only get more negative. We have an easy solution for you, Toyota: Shut up and fix it before you kill the buzz on the new generation Prius that’s just hitting the market.
Peter De Lorenzo, Autoextremist, 7-1-09
Yet another reason to avoid HID headlamps, that and the fact that they tend to blind the opposing traffic.
. . . the optional HID headlights of the circa-2006 Prius are prone to turning off at random times, usually not at the same time. When this happens, they must be turned off, then on again.
If enough Prius owners file a safety complaint to NHTSA (easy to do at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/), NHTSA will open an investigation. If they rule that this is a safety issue–headlights going out at random sounds like a safety issue to me–they will issue a safety recall. Toyota will have to recall all cars that have HIDs and replace some or all components with upgraded ones that do not have the problem. Safety recalls never expire–I once had one performed on a 13-year old car. It’s easy, print the recall and bring it to the dealer and drop off the car. I guarantee they will bend over backward to fix it.
If Toyota dealers are routinely jacking people for $1700 when all they need are new bulbs, this does seem like a story that needs to get out. I’d hope that anyone who paid a dealer $1700 for this “service” reports them to Toyota and local consumer watchdog groups so it can be thoroughly investigated.
Not to be too harsh but:
Anyone who options HID lights, run flat tires or CVT transmissions shouldn’t ever complain about cost or outcome.
You wanted the gizmo. Suck it up!
@jberger
in the previous entry on this, I mentioned a $45 HID replacement bulb on ebay. It is the specified OEM supplier bulb for that car, right from the mfr’s manual. If HIDs take over from halogens, maybe you could see the equivalent of the halogen wanna-look-like-HIDs that are being sold. A little digging on the mfr’s spec or a visit to a bricks’n’mortar auto supply store for the purchase should fix that. I’ll know HIDs have arrived when I can get the OEM bulb at Pep Boys.
This is such a luxury compared to the bad old days when automakers, under government regulation, were forced to use less than a handful of standard sealed beam units. While in some cases (Jaguar XJ) stylists were able to minimize their drawbacks and integrate them well into the overall design, for the most part sealed beams hampered stylists and didn’t work very well illuminating the road. Yes, HID lamps are expensive to buy and maintain, but between HID and halogen bulbs and sophisticated reflectors and aero housings, cars today have much better road lighting using headlamps that are well integrated into the car’s styling.
The Prius HID story may be partly due to taking a poke at #1, but also it’s due to Toyota’s vaunted reputation for reliability and customer service just aching to be taken down a peg or two.
Speaking as a troubleshooter, the symptoms are interesting. On one hand, it’s reported that simply changing the HID bulbs fixes the problem in most cases, which sounds like it’s a bulb problem, on the other hand, power cycling the headlamp system at least temporarily restores both headlamps to operation, which sounds electronic. Perhaps the bulbs ‘wear’ to the point where an electronic value may drop during operation.
There’s a certain amount of schadenfreude when I read this – the bastiches rich enough to afford HID’s deserve the headaches they get with these systems. And I hate being blinded by oncoming Beamers (sic) running the “Rude Blues” as I call them.
Of course, last night @ 3AM, I was on my way back from a jobsite, and nearly ‘encountered’ a fat raccoon after rounding a corner… I was wanting those “blues” on my car at that point.
I see that the new top-level Prius is equipped with “LED Headlights” – did Toyota see this train coming?
@shaker
solution to the problem ;) ;)
It’s a 106 miles to Chicago, we’ve got a full tank of gas, half a packet of cigarettes, it’s dark and we’re wearing sunglasses. Hit it.
– Elwood Blues
Repair shops routinely seeking to do more work than really needs to be done…news?
Everyone knows this happens. What no one knows–myself included–is what to do about it short of doing your own repairs.
Respondents to TrueDelta’s survey report what they pay for repairs. DIYers routinely save a TON of money, not just on labor but on parts as well. Check out some time what brake pads and rotors cost online, then how much shops charge for brake jobs.
The Prius HID case is closer to being the rule than the exception.
News flash, Volvo
Toyota built their reputation on stuff not breaking, like hid lamps. Toyota built their reputation on being a good value. It’s not a good value when the money you’re saving in fuel costs is being spent on fixing light bulbs that die out prematuely.
This is yet another example of Toyota resting on their laurels and relying on their past reputation. The bad press it’s generating will further erode the goodwill they’ve but up over five decades.
If their cars aren’t as reliable and the customer service isn’t as excellent, then what’s the point of looking at them when the time comes for a new car?
jberger-cheerleader,
The news:
My brother, my brother in law and myself are people who read ‘Prius headlight problem 300-1700 dollar repair’ and do not buy one.
I’m puzzled. If the failure is cleared by turning off the headlights then turning them back on, how does replacing the guilty bulb solve the problem? Seems to me if the bulb isn’t physically burned out the problem is a bit deeper in the system.
I’m speaking as a recent VW owner where you change light bulbs as often as you change your oil.
Put it this way: if it was Saab, Volvo, Mercedes, Jaguar or Volkswagen reporting this it wouldn’t be a quality issue, it would be part of the “charm and heritage of the brand”.
Well to those who are taking pleasure in these HID failures, stating that those that purchased the HID option are rich and deserving maybe you should retink your position. I’m a powersports salesman, I sell jetski’s, motorcycles and ATV’s. I work hard to make an average and yes honest living. I’m hardley rich. When I bought a new 2006 Prius for my wife I did so because of Toyota’s reputation for safety and quality first, for their durability. Now I’m a 6’5″ 245 lb former linebacker that has always been a gear head, muscle car lover, love a ride in a 42′ fountain with all three running flat out and will always love my ’69 GTO with its Ram Air 400, muncie 4 speed rag top. But I also belive our current energy consumption is un substainable. So don’t put me in your dreamed up rich, nurdy profile of a Prius buyer, cause I’d probably knock ya on your ass if ya came up to me and tried.
I optioned the HID cause my wife drives about 35k a year and a good portion of that is pre dawn and during dusk and after, she too works long har days to make an honest living. I optioned every safety item I could get for her, even changed out the tires, loosing some MPG for softer tires with better grip. Having lived tru my share of get offs, wrecks and hard hits I have gained an apriciation for how debilitating they can be and how the proper equipment can make all the diffrence. I want her to have the best chance posiable to walk away. HID not only gives her better vision, especialy at pre dawn and dusk but makes her more visable in daylight hours too therefore increasing her survival chances.
By the way I don’t think the Prius HID’s are blinding to on comming trafic at all, I’ve never noticed the anoying glare from a Prius like I do from some other lux. cars, and all those folks driving around with “upgraded” 80 and 100 watt “blue” low beam replacements.
So I put the Prius HID in the same catagory as seat belts, airbags, ABS, Traction Control, STS ect, is not a fashion statment, and if you follow Toyota’s history you’ll know they put much more in to design for function and safety then they ever have for fashion.
Now I’m disapointed that my wifes HID headlights at 98k have started to have this problem, $1000 is way to high to get it fixed I totally agree, headlights should not cost that to replace, Hopefully I’ll be able to order the bulbs and fix it my self for far less. And hopfully Toyota will come up with a better way to handle their Prius owners at their dealerships, that don’t have the ability to do it them selves.
I HAVE A 1998 FORD RANGER AND A 2008 PRUIS THE SAFER ONE TO DRIVE IS THE RANGER TO GET MY KIDS TO SCHOOL. IT HAS TWO HEAD LIGHTS THAT HAS WORKED AND NEVER BURNT OUT MY PRUIS STAYS AT HOME TILL THEY GET THIS PROBLEM SOLVED WITH A SIGN ON THE WINDSHIELD UNSAFE TO DRIVE AT NIGHT. IHAVE PEOPLE STOP ALL THE TIME AND CAN’T BELIVE A CAR DEALER WOULD LET THIS THING HAPPEN. I GUESS IT WILL TAKE A FEW PEOPLE TO GET KILLED BECAUSE OF THERE PROBLEM BEFORE THEY FIX IT. THE CAR IS NICE TO DRIVE BUT I WOULD REATHER BE ALIVE IN MY RANGER THEN DEAD IN MY PRUIS. JERRY
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I have a 2007 Prius. With only 40,000 miles on it, both of my HID headlight bulbs have burned out. I didn’t replace the whole bulb apparatus, but since I didn’t feel confident in taking off the front bumper of the car to replace them (a lousy design), I took my car to the dealership for replacement and it was not a cheap visit with bulb costs and labor. This is really lousy since these stupid HID bulbs are supposed to last TWICE as long as regular bulbs. I never had to replace my regular bulbs on my previous car this often (let alone both at the same time!).