The “Toyota is the new GM” meme is a provocative one. After all, prior to GM’s decades-long unraveling its dominance of the industry put Toyota’s tentative top-dog status to shame. GM’s decline proved once and for all that no make, model or brand can coast on being “number one” alone. Which is why I want to believe that Lexus is shaping up to be the new Buick, as Mark Phelan insists at the Freep.
The first part of Phelan’s argument comes from IHS Global Insight’s Rebecca Lindland, who’s basic premise is that Lexus buyers are old. “Lexus made its name with baby boomers,” she explains to Phelan. “They’re aging, and the average age of Lexus owners is increasing with them. Lexus hasn’t been able to supplement the baby boomers’ loyalty with younger buyers.”
The problem with her argument? Lexus buyers are, on average, a decade younger than median Buick customers. They also tend to be wealthier and better educated than Buick loyalists. But AutoPacific’s Stephanie Brinley points out that there’s another similiarity: people buy Buick and Lexus for the same reasons: quality, reliability, comfort and safety. In short, the things old people look for in cars.
But the stock criticism that brands must attract young buyers to stay relevant falls flat by the time it’s actually trotted out. Luxury brands are always going to target older buyers (thanks to the cruel stereotype that they actually have money) and 56 isn’t a tragic median age (compared to Buicks 66). And when it comes time to twist the knife, Phelan’s female brand assassins run out of steam.
“Part of the problem is that Lexus doesn’t have a good entry crossover SUV like the BMW X3 and Audi Q5,” Lindland said. The RX 350 — Lexus’ best-selling vehicle by a wide margin — is about the same size as those vehicles, “but it’s seen as a mom-mobile, darned near a minivan,” she said. “You expect it to be driven by a woman with children.”
By definition, “a woman with children” should be at the heart of a mainstream luxury brand. Buick’s problem is that if children set foot in a Buick they’re grandchildren at best. Lexus’s brand engineering has never been as egregious as the bad old GM’s, and though it could be 20 to 30 years from Buick-esque generational decline it will bring in a grip of cash between now and then.
Meanwhile, the article’s prescriptive touchstones- style, excitement, youth- are exactly what Buick is currently gunning for… as it chases Lexus. Of course, if Buick gets its average buyer age down to 56 the Freep’s writers will no doubt crown it a success. Meanwhile, Lexus will have to fall out of favor faster than Hootie And The Blowfish before the phrase “the Lexus of blank” goes the way of “the Cadillac of blank.” The way I see it, the real question is will Buick ever have a chance at becoming the new Lexus.
The RX is a sign of weakness at Lexus? It vastly outsells everything else in the segment. Proving that the great majority of luxury car buyers couldn’t care less about handling.
I won’t buy the “Toyota is the new GM” line until Toyota starts claiming that the real problem is perception rather than acting to fix the problem.
As far as I can tell, Toyota still reacts to problems by fixing them, not by claiming that they aren’t real. If anything, they give problems the benefit of the doubt, treating even those largely created by the press as worthy of a reaction.
Wait and see what they do for the next IS and GS. Unlike GM, when a fix doesn’t work, they don’t quit.
One last thing to chew on: wasn’t RF lusting after an IS-F?
A slightly expanded version of this comment:
http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=385
No time for another 600 words, or I’d write a full editorial for TTAC.
“As far as I can tell, Toyota still reacts to problems by fixing them, not by claiming that they aren’t real.”
You have GOT to be kidding.
This just made me think of a TV show I was just watching from back in 1994. A well-to-do individual cruising around in a brand new, shiny Park Avenue. And I was thinking, just 15 years ago, Buick actually had credibility as a luxury brand. That Park Avenue sold for $45-50k in today’s money and would be the equivalent of a midrange Lexus today.
Roadmaster Estate Wagons were the RXes of their day, attracting high-income families.
How much has changed in 15 years.
Nothing to prevent Lexus from going down that road as well. I think Lexus’ biggest problem is Toyota. As much as they are known for their legendary reliability, they are also known as snoozemobiles. The Corolla is the #1 car that car people recommend for their aunts and mothers-in-law. This is not going to help people’s perception of Lexus. Toyota, and by extension Lexus, makes cars for people who hate to drive.
Saturday I saw a 3rd gen Eclipse in the hospital parking lot with a set of ‘venti-ports’ off of a Lucerne on its fenders.
Bad taste has no boundaries.
It’s been more than 15 years, Axel. Buick last had widespread credibility as a luxury brand back in the 1970s. Or was it the 1960s? Even then they were a definite rung below Cadillac, while Lexus is on par with where Cadillac used to be.
Lexus manages to base its reputation on the LS, while selling mostly RXs and ESs. Not an easy trick to pull off. The HS might be bad enough to put a dent in it, though.
When developing a product for a market segment, not all manufacturers are correct in their theories. Take the Honda Element, totally misread by Honda of it’s actual audience. I would bet in a far far away place where time forgot, is a group of Lexus-cons studying the Buick, and Cadillac trilogies.
Acura has successfully made the transition into being nothing more then a Japanese Buick – so it could happen to Lexus too…..
Classic case of taking your eye off the ‘marketing’ ball.
Michael, what is the problem with IS that needs fixing in the next generation? I just bought one a few weeks ago, seems like a nice car to me, the best amongh the competition (on the balance). My only complaint would be that it is a shade bloated when compared with the previous generation and the A-pillars are too thick because of airbags.
P.S. I’m 43 years old
The only way the RX could be more of a mom-mobile is if it dispensed tampons. It’s going to be out of fashion very quickly, just as we saw with the Explorer, the 4 Runner and the Cherokee. The ES is by far more geriatric than any 2010 Buick. The IS is styled like an economy car and still can’t compete against the 3 series, Infiniti G or Audi A4/S4. The SC is for silver haired ladies who lunch at Nieman Marcus. The GS is irrelevant. I like the LS a lot, but it’s far too generic to be a serious consideration against the three German flagships. They continue to tease us with the possibility of a sports car with pictures that no one seems to care about. Lexus is all over the place, unfocused, and it’s reflected in their terrible designs. Buick seems to have a more solid understanding of what they need to do than Lexus does.
@ Niedermeyer:
The way I see it, the real question is will Buick ever have a chance at becoming the new Lexus.
Bingo. The more I think of this, the smarter GM’s strategy to have two luxury nameplates becomes.
Lexus’ strategy is to basically be the Chevy or Toyota of luxury nameplates – something in every price range, from a $35,000 ES to a $100,000 LS hybrid. The problem is, the folks buying the high-dollar models – the LS, GS, SC and LX SUV – are shopping them against similar models from BMW and Mercedes, and walking into a showroom with three warmed-over Toyotas is a turnoff.
In other words, Lexus works for the entry-lux buyers, but not for the high-end buyers. Not surprisingly, their top-end models aren’t that competitive, and don’t sell well.
So, instead of having one lux brand doing a Lexus takeoff, GM will have Buick competing with Lexus and Caddy going after BMW and Mercedes – both in price and driving quality.
Can Buick pull it off? They have two models currently that are every bit as nice as anything from Lexus – the Enclave SUV and the upcoming LaCrosse. Now they need to flesh the lineup out with a smaller SUV, and a “chick-mobile” sedan like the IS (they could platform-share with Caddy on this one).
But none of this will happen if Buick/GMC can’t do what Lexus does – an exceptional dealership experience. That MUST improve.
blue adidas :
August 31st, 2009 at 1:17 pm
The only way the RX could be more of a mom-mobile is if it dispensed tampons. It’s going to be out of fashion very quickly, just as we saw with the Explorer, the 4 Runner and the Cherokee.
ROFLOL…but no, I don’t think the RX is going to fail as a nameplate anytime soon, unless Toyota decides to make it look like a Scion xB or some such lunacy…
This theory is almost right; it only needs to readjust its sights a bit lower:
For a few years now I’ve been expounding that (a subsegment of) Toyota is the new Buick. The XLE Camry-Avalon-Corolla triumvirate is the new Buick. This conclusion is drawn from a most solid evaluation, those cars’ drivers’ behaviours. I explain:
Fifteen to twenty years ago, when encountering a fellow motorist driving and behaving in a certain way, that motorist’s car would most likely be a Buick. Today, that car will be a Corolla-Camry-Avalon. These driving behaviours include:
– Dawdling in the left lane of the highway.
– When, upon finally realizing they need to cede way, it takes them a good 20-25 seconds to shift over one lane, all the while braking from their already slow speed.
– When stopped at a traffic light, this driver will leave a full car-length between them and the car in front of them, often resulting in blocking your ability to get into the right lane for that right-hand turn.
– The wearing of a hat, a fedora, in the car.
– Reversing without turning their head around.
– Putting less than 6,000 miles / year on their car.
Thus, as the evidence clearly shows, the new Buick in the Corolla-Camry-Avalon trio. Case closed.
zaitcev:
The main problem with the IS is that it doesn’t sell well. And the reasons it doesn’t sell well are the size of the back seat, handling that doesn’t quite match the leaders, and the Lexus image.
I’ve always been a believer in having multiple brands to address multiple targets. Having two luxury brands makes a lot of sense. I’ve always thought BMW should buy Jaguar. Jaguar cannot afford its own powertrains and platforms. And if BMW had a second luxury brand it could return BMWs to their roots.
GM’s problem wasn’t the number of brands, but how it applied them.
The automotive media loves to hate Toyota (understandably – I wish they were sportier too), and so you see the wishful thinking about their imminent demise. But if age is the issue, I think Lexus has done very well with the IS. The first one only appealed to the sport compact crowd because they wanted a RWD sporty Toyota, and that was a limited audience. The new one appeals to the same demographic as the 3-series. I see tons of them around here; it’s a hit! The ES gets a reasonable number of well-to-do 30/40 year olds too.
Lexus is still aspirational. And as the IS shows, Lexus can widen its scope without a problem. Buick, on the other hand, is trapped by Cadillac in sport (CTS) and soft luxury (DTS) on the higher-end side, and by total brand dilution on the cheap side. What goals could Buick possibly set for itself?
As a 40-something Lexus IS owner, I take (some) umbrage to this.
First of all, with the exception of the ES (more later), none of the other cars in the Lexus lineup shares a platform with a US Toyota. The same cannot be said of Buick, where every vehicle shares a platform with a Chevy or Cadillac.
The IS is a reasonable alternative to the BMW 3-series and Audi A4. Based on my ownership experience, the IS spends far less time than the shop than the A4 or BMW, and has a better interior than the BMW to boot.
The ES is truly, justifiably geriatric. Having driven one as a service loaner, it truly is as numb as any Buick. I can’t see how anyone under 60 would want one. I would suggest dumping it (since it is just a shamelessly rebadged Camry), but it is probably one of their top selling models, and helps keep the lights on. Sometimes, the pursuit of volume isn’t everything.
A good question to ask is “what is the median age of used Lexus/Buick buyers?” as you’d think some of these used car buyers will convert to new car buyers for that brand when they have the money.
I see lots young/younger people in Lexus. As for Buick, I literally don’t see many except for some Enclave drivers who look upper 40-ish.
from the freep: “Lexus attracts a younger, wealthier and better-educated buyer than Buick,”
If you just look at the sedans the average age of a Buick buyer is probably in the 70s. Lexus has at least a decade and a half to fix its “problems” before it becomes the new Buick.
For Lexus having older buyers isn’t a problem so long as they can keep feeding new buyers in from Toyota. Where can Buick find new buyers? Chevy isn’t going to capture 1st time new car buyers with its current range. In fact all the people I know who have made a first time new car purchase in the past few months have gone for Japanese brands while Chevy is left competing with KIA.
The ES is truly, justifiably geriatric. Having driven one as a service loaner, it truly is as numb as any Buick.
That’s a feature not a bug. There is certainly a market for people with 30+ mile commutes ,in bumper to bumper traffic, who just want a car that is as quite and comfortable as possible.
Agreed that Lexus’s are, for the most part, beautifully crafted, leather-lined snoozemobiles. (the IS being a partial exception, but that small backseat does hurt sales, I beleive).
But I have to ask, is all this ‘rentless pursuit of youth’ kind of ageist? I mean, I’m 40, and find Lexus’ boring, but lots of older people have the money…and money’s green whether it’s a 40 year olds, or a 60 year olds. I’d say Lexus’ role in the marketplace is cast, and they have many more years of profit ahead of them by taking 60 yr old Doctor’s money.
The larger problem is that parent Toyota has trouble designing, and then STICKING WITH exciting cars that attract the young buyer (Witness the demise of the MR-2, the Celica, the morphing of the Scion xB into a huge crossover alternative, etc.) They just can’t design and keep lightweight, (relatively) inexpensive fun cars around…they get fat in the redesign, or get “Camry’d” and take all the fun out.
They may do better trying to upmarket Scion into a near-luxury youth brand, keeping Toyata as mainstream, and letting Lexus continue to take the near-retirement set.
I agree with Karesh – The LX vehicle is vehicle that the other automakers wish they had. This author’s article cannot be taken seriously with a comment that the RX is a sign of weakness.
It’s a A high margin soft-roader that has become ubiquitous with the concept of a mid-priced luxury crossover. I believe the research shows that LX buyers don’t even cross-shop anything else. Acura and Infiniti wish their RDX/EX were thought of that way.
Of course most buyers they can’t tell the difference between RDX, LX, and EX. Ask your co-workers and let me know how many family-oriented buyers trully know which one belongs to wish brand. It doesn’t matter if some car-nut knows the vehicles since the audience for these CUVs is not comprised of car-nuts. Instead most family-oriented CUV buyers just look at the badge on the hood and liftgate, and it turns out many buyers love that swoopy L.
The only way Lexus becomes the new Buick is if Lexus suddenly stopped offering the products people want. People would have to start turning their backs on the brand if they stopped trusting it or they became unable to satisfy their automotive needs.
It only takes one failed product offering and they will lose thousands of customers for life. Toyota knows this – they are not GM.
people buy Buick and Lexus for the same reasons: quality, reliability, comfort and safety.
And the big, unspoken fifth point in favour (if you could call it that) of Buick is “price”. Leaving aside the LS, GS and LX (vehicles that Cadillac might not have competitors for, never mind Buick), the Lucerne, Enclave and Lacrosse are the cheap American alternative to Lexus.
GM’s marketing nitwits need to learn this: just because they make a pronouncement (“Pontiac is the American BMW”, “It’s just the perception gap”, etc) it doesn’t mean people believe it. I’m amazed that anyone at GM Marketing has a job, because not only are they reprehensibly bad at their job, that incompetence is mated to an arrogance that sees them believe everything they say is automatically taken as writ. These people live in a tremendous echo chamber, and never hear how flat on their face these pronouncements fall.**
The issue isn’t how old the buyers are, or how good the product is, it’s how damaged (or not) the brand is. Lexus has a lot of brand cachet and Toyota did a masterful job building it in a very short period of time. Buick does not have that reputation, and GM Marketing is flat-out incapable of creating it.
** this is why their performance last year in Begging For Dollars was so comically bad. They really have no idea how the real world actually works.
Wow, quite the shot at the RX there. Point taken, but the vehicle is still very much sought after. Ask almost any 25-45 year old woman what she thinks of the RX and you will get a huge majority in favor of the car.
Ask the same question about a Buick and see the difference. I think you will get a lot of the following words in your reply: grandpa, geriatric, ancient.
My car selling buddy got his hands on an RX330 at an unbelievably low trade in price. He offered it up for sale at a very low price for a quick sale. There were literally women on his lot fighting over the car. Quite a spectacle.
Tell me that would happen with a Buick.
P.S. People still remember that GM went bankrupt and took their tax dollars too.
But I have to ask, is all this ‘rentless pursuit of youth’ kind of ageist?
No.
People sixty-plus years of age have maybe one or two purchases of this type left in them. People who are forty have several more. People in their twenties have lots. It’s not ageist, it’s capitalist.
This is Detroit’s biggest failure: they collectively forgot that, by shovelling shit at entry-level buyers for decades, they wouldn’t be selling these people anything thirty years down the road. That Citation or Cavalier buyer that GM didn’t think was worth the a dime twenty years ago? The one who junked the car and bought a Corolla? They went and bought a Sienna, then a RAV, then an ES.
So, for the sake of saving some money on the entry-level product, they screwed themselves out of several future sales. Nice work, there.
It’s like the idea of “entry-level luxury”, something Detroit (and GM in particular) has no real concept of. As a company, they would have been incapable of something like the BMW 3-Series** because there’s no sense in putting money into a small car. It’s also why they, more than anyone else, have tried to pull the “luxury pickup truck” trick. The problem is that buyers don’t actually work the way the marketing mavens think they do.
** this explains what they did to Saab.
thalter: First of all, with the exception of the ES (more later), none of the other cars in the Lexus lineup shares a platform with a US Toyota.
I’m quite sure the RX shares the basic Camry platform along with the Highlander, Venza and ES.
So let me get this straight, the problem is that the median age is “years older” then the Infiniti/BMW/Audi (no Mercedes/Acura/Cadillac data? strange) and that they have a model that trounces everything in that segment sales-wise. Sounds terrible.
I’m a biased, 29 year old owner of a IS250. I think the worst thing Lexus can do is cater to “youth marketing.” Scion should be a good enough lesson. Buick didn’t lose its luster because the buyers got too old, they just failed to make a quality car that competed in the marketplace for a couple of decades. As long as Lexus keeps the core reliability and high build quality while doling out enough toys to keep the technogeeks happy, I doubt they’ll have much of a problem moving metal compared to the other guys.
@Paul:
I was referring to cars only. All Lexus CUVs and SUVs share platforms with Toyota counterparts (painfully so, in the case of the LX).
The first part of Phelan’s argument comes from IHS Global Insight’s Rebecca Lindland, who’s basic premise is that Lexus buyers are old. “Lexus made its name with baby boomers,” she explains to Phelan. “They’re aging, and the average age of Lexus owners is increasing with them. Lexus hasn’t been able to supplement the baby boomers’ loyalty with younger buyers.”
——————————————
Buyers of MB, Porsche are old too. Using the same logic. Lexus, MB, Porsche and a number of other luxury brands won’t exist in 20 years. The luxury segment will disappear. But really, no, when the current 70 year olds die out, there will be new 70 year olds.
—
The RX 350 — Lexus’ best-selling vehicle by a wide margin — is about the same size as those vehicles, “but it’s seen as a mom-mobile, darned near a minivan,” she said. “You expect it to be driven by a woman with children.”
——————————————-
What’s wrong with mom buyers? RX350 is a luxury car, not a male car. It costs $50k and it sells in large quantities. Mission accomplished.
meefer :
August 31st, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Buick didn’t lose its luster because the buyers got too old, they just failed to make a quality car that competed in the marketplace for a couple of decades.
—————————————
I agree. It’s perfectly fine to appeal to 70 year olds.
Buick failed because it doesn’t appeal to the new generation of 70 year olds.
Lexus sells to the same group that way back when, bought Buick. It is not Buick of Today.
Lexus confounds enthusiasts by being well designed but boring. Those of us who want fun out of a car don’t “hook up” to Lexus.
Those who want comfy, reliable with a dash of snob do. There are more of them than you think.
How many BMW’s are sold with Sport packages and manuals….not very many if you compare them to the automatic trans luxury package cars from BMW.
I drove the IS prior to sending my $ to Germany. The only one I really liked was the IS-F, but now we are talking M Classe money.
Lexus appeals to older drivers because of its value proposition
1) reliability
2) luxury / snob appeal
3) refinement / isolated cabin
4) cruising
The portion of the youth market that wants these things tend to go for a Merc (compared C-class vs IS series) — they just close their eyes to the reliability monkey
The other segment wants BMWs which Lexus cannot beat b/c of their mkt position and value prop (try to make Lexus sporty without alienating existing owners)
The ‘new Lexus’ is going to come from somewhere a bit unexpected, like the original Lexus did (although it wasn’t unexpected, since Acura showed the way). Buick?! GTFOH! More likely is Jaguar-Land Rover with its new owners (if they read from the Lexus formula book). Hyundai is the most obvious answer if they could just stop selling shitboxes (I mean that in the nicest way!) out of the same shop.
EN
Thank you for pointing out the holes in the “must attract younger buyers” theory.
MK
Agree with your posts.
FreedMike
I think you’re spot on in explaining the purpose of two luxury brands. The purpose of branding is to appeal to different markets.
However, I doubt GM will get it right -based on historical precedent. The Caddies are too cheap.
Also agree about the upper end of Lexus sales – I could swing an entry level Lexus if I really wanted to, and I’m a guy who wears a uniform shirt with his name above the pocket. IOW, someone who just plunked down 6 figures for a car doesn’t want to see the likes of me stepping out of the same brand. It should be impossible for a guy like me to afford a Lexus.
zaitcev :…what is the problem with IS that needs fixing in the next generation? I just bought one a few weeks ago, seems like a nice car to me…
To some, THAT is the problem, although, to others, it is a no problem. If you’re looking for “pretty nice” then there’s nothing wrong with it, at all: the IS is built well, is reasonably attractive (after the Japanese fashion–well, at least it doesn’t grin at you like the Mazda), it has an engine that will take you no where fast but, at the same time, will probably not cause major problems (talking the 250, which is what I mostly see), and if you are a single upscale woman it will probably go with your new purse.
On the other hand, if you want something exciting and fun to drive, something that handles well, is lighter and responsive, then you should probably look elsewhere. It just depends on what you want in a car. To tell you the truth, I’d rather tool around in a boy racer GTI (not a GTI owner, BTW) and pocket 5 grand. But that’s just me, and I understand my opinion is probably not shared by most.
And if BMW had a second luxury brand it could return BMWs to their roots.
Downmarket perhaps, but upmarket they already own another luxury brand, Rolls-Royce.
I totally disagree with the “Lexus is the new Buick” and “Toyota is the next GM” claims. The only commonalities are that Lexus makes luxury cars like Buick used to, and Toyota has huge market share, like GM used to.
Claim: Lexus = OldFartMobile: I see contradicting remarks above — some people say only old people want Lexus/Toyota car, yet others (accurately IMHO) say that the RX350 is a MomMobile. Are moms old?
Claim: Lexus = Undesirable geriatric/boring/bloated warmed-over Camries; Lexus’ association with Toyota gives them snoozemobile image: That’s like saying Boeing sells bloated warmed-over snoozemobile planes so they won’t last in the market. Not everyone wants an engaging exhilarating experience when going from point A to B. As JMO stated, this is a feature not a bug for people with long commutes in bumper to bumper traffic. Case in point: I spend ~4 hrs/day in 90 miles of stop-and-go traffic cocooned in my ES350. I bought it specifically for the cushy, quiet, reliable ride. I *want* to be isolated from the road. I’m 42 – not quite geriatric.
Claim: Lexus should ditch entry level models, esp. those that look like Toyotas, to enhance snob appeal: Did GM fail b/c Buick & Caddy buyers suddenly figured out that their cars were made by GM, parent mfgr of Joe Sixpack’s practical Chevy? Considering the research evidently indicates Lexus buyers are intelligent, wealthy, etc., such buyers likely are not only aware that Lexus is Toyota’s luxury division, but partly choose the brand b/c of it (ie reliability image of Toyota). Part of Lexus is the dealer experience, part of it is the car. Having cheaper cars to lure in buyers who can afford a $40K ES or IS today allows Toyota to instill brand loyalty today so the buyer is likely to buy the even higher profit margin models 10-20 years down the road.
Claim: Lexus must have a purely “aspirational” lineup, so snobs who plunked down 6 figures for a car needn’t deign to spend time in the presence of blue collar workers who scrimp & save and are able to afford an entry level Lexus: When I bought the 3 ES Lexus models I’ve owned over the past decade, I received surveys asking questions like “Does your car make you feel special”, etc. I’m sure that Toyota’s multi-bazillion dollar/year market research team has determined that selling some % of (entry level) models at merely outrageous prices alongside of other (high end aspirational) models at confiscatory prices makes good economic sense. The few wealthy people I know either drive cheap cars to avoid standing out (and to save money, hence they’re wealthy), or buy a fancy car that they like the looks/comfort of; snob appeal is not part of the issue. I’m sure it matters for some people, but not everyone is the same.
Claim: Lexus will fail b/c they fail to have a uniform image and fail to target just one demographic: Toyota is maximizing profit by appealing to as many demographics as possible. Why should customers care? When you go to the Ford dealer to buy a sporty Mustang, do you hesitate out of fear your buddies will laugh at you for buying a sports car that’s made by the same company that makes boring Lincoln sedans?
I’m sure that Toyota’s multi-bazillion dollar/year market research team has determined that selling some % of (entry level) models at merely outrageous prices alongside of other (high end aspirational) models at confiscatory prices makes good economic sense.
Sure, in the short run, until they don’t have a brand anymore. Made good economic sense for Caddy and Buick too. But now Caddy IS Buick, and Buick is Oldsmobile.
I don’t agree that Toyota is the new GM, but they aren’t infallible either.
When you go to the Ford dealer to buy a sporty Mustang, do you hesitate out of fear your buddies will laugh at you for buying a sports car that’s made by the same company that makes boring Lincoln sedans?
When you go shopping for a mid sized sedan, why would you buy a Ford? A fusion isn’t iconic like a Mustang. What does Ford stand for? What does it mean to own a Ford?
I think that my dad – who is still mentally residing in 1959 summed it best earlier this year, while we were discussing GM upcoming BK – and the chance that Buick would be vaporized.
“Buick going away? That’s impossible, they’re doctor’s cars…“ Verbatim quote.
This coming from a man who bought nothing but VW’s and Mercedes for 30 years no less….
When the last of his generation goes away – so will Buick.
I started looking at IS drivers around here and interestingly, they are mostly gangsta wannabees, and most cars are lowered. So much for the median age. It looks like there’s Lexus RX and there’s Lexus IS, and they have no overlap.
There is nothing truly that Toyota makes that interests me, since pretty much everything in my price range ($25-40k) drives quite blandly.
Hopefully Acura will find it’s way back. Soon.
I came into the Lexus fold 7 years ago(ES300) when I was 31, and an LS430 the year after. I’m so delighted with both I’d definitely consider trading into another LS or RX. So much for an exit vehicle.
I’m not “old” and I’d have a GS450h or LS600h in heartbeat.
If they make the LF-A I’d try one of those.
If someone offered me an IS-F, I wouldn’t refuse either.
We have younger friends in RXh’s.
I have younger colleagues in IS250s.
We have clients with LX’s, and I see LS’ driven by all ages.
ES’ was always the weakest model; you don’t see many in Australia.
Lexus is completely overpriced, compared to the (mostly now equal if not better) competition.
In this new climate, which will hang around a lot longer than most understand (can you say Japanese style lost decade(s)?), price is more important than ever, and when you consider Lexus are relatively expensive cars and that the quality control of Toyota-san has been on the decline, and certainly not on an upward trajectory compared to the competition, Lexus’s troubles have only just begun.
Anecdotally speaking, my sister’s RX330 with 54k miles has had its fair share of problems, including a coolant system leak and transmission issues.
Lexus is not what it used to be.
If Buick can prove itself to be highly reliable from day one through the long term, they certainly will pose a threat to Lexus’s former hegemony.
If Buick can prove itself to be highly reliable from day one through the long term, they certainly will pose a threat to Lexus’s former hegemony.
Buick/Cadillac will be nowhere near the Lexus space because, like every GM product, you burn via depreciation.
Buick’s competitors are higher-end Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, VW and Ford.
ohsnapback,
My wife has an RX330 also. Like yours, it has not been 100% problem-free. But, Lexus has addressed every concern.
Regarding the coolant leak, Toyota offered RX owners to come in for a radiator replacement or a 100k mile warranty on the part (owner’s choice).
The sludge issue cropped up on Lexus/Toyota cars. Lexus extended their powertrain warranty to 70k miles across the board.
So far, Lexus has always done right by me. I can’t say the same thing about my past dealings with GM.
This is our third Lexus, and we plan to replace the RX with another Lexus. A few years ago, my folks were having issues with their Cadillac and their dealership, and I talked them into a Lexus. They are also planning to stay in the Lexus fold for their next purchase. So anecdotally speaking, GM lost a bunch of future sales from my family. The only perception gap I’ve experienced is that GM thinks they build good cars when they clearly do not.
The problem for Lexus is that the very culture of luxury car buyers is changing…
The $50,000 to $70,000 price range is getting absolutely decimated. E-Classes, the Audi A6’s, BMW 5-Series, the LS and SC models. ALL of these cars are experiencing a sharp reduction in interest across the board because the $30,000 to $40,000 range now offers 90+% of what these models can give in this market.
Beyond that… it’s very hard for Lexus to crest past the $70,000 mark. Even if the cars were market leaders, it’s very hard to shake the ‘affordable luxury’ perceptions of Lexus’s core clientele. Unfortunately for Lexus, most folks who spend money at the high levels want to be both seen and heard. Mercedes, Porsche, and BMW all do that. Lexus and virtually every other brand that competes in that segment fails to garner that cache.
Lexus is a big seller, no doubt, but definitely not a brand for “car” people. Even the IS drives like a much bigger car than it is. The LF-A as a halo car is doomed to failure if they don’t have product to sell to the people it draws in.
But, Lexus’s brand name isn’t as irrevocably tarnished as Buick. And the IS-F represents the potential for something more from the brand. If the market hadn’t tanked, I’d bet we would have seen a sporty roadster on the boards from Lexus by now, as they tried to capture some of the third car market, but with the market the way it is – economy, reliability, and blandness will do.
Oh gosh… A note to Toyota – ignore the envious naysayers, and keep building quality cars with technical excellence.
I didn’t know the IS “does not sell well”. Here you can’t make a U-turn without hitting at least four of them.
As for for “Toyota is the new GM” – it is a lame forced meme, probably originated by Ford. There is absolutely nothing common between how Toyota does business and how GM did/does.
Are you guys sleeping with the AOL Autoblog idiots, cause they just wrote this same post.
Me? I’d sue if I had to sleep with a Liberal.