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Commentator kobo1d writes:
My wife and I are in the market for a slightly used car. I would like to ask the Best and Brightest: what cars should we take a look at in the under $15,000 (out the door) almost new category? Is there anything decent in this range? We want a sedan/wagon/hatch still under factory bumper-to-bumper warranty, long-term reliable, and fun to drive. Wife can’t drive a stick, and ABS is mandatory. Must get 30 Highway MPG to guarantee our low loan rate. Can it be done?
97 Comments on “Ask the Best and Brightest: Fun-to-drive, newish sedan under $15,000?...”
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Kia Sportage. I’m not kidding, look into it.
Newwish…
I would always go for Mazda3.
One answer really…. Mazda3!
Late model Ford Fusions, Mercury Milans, and Mazda6’s can be had for under $15K with full warranty still in effect (possibly slightly more OTD depending on your state’s tax rate, tag fees, etc). All are fun to drive, with a great chassis, excellent reliability, and a good fun to drive factor. None get over 30mpg highway, but if your car loan requires you to get 30mpg highway, you need to look at a different bank. All are in the high 20s range highway, and around here you can still get 4.5% or so financing through the local credit union or 5% through a regular bank regardless of your cars mileage.
The Camry and Accord both crest the 30mpg benchmark, but the Camry is about as fun as a Mormon bachelor party and both it and the Accord will require more age and miles to get you under $15K than the Ford/Mercury/Mazda option.
EDIT:
The Mazda3, Honda Civic, or Focus SES w/ABS would also work, but really, compacts are for second cars, seniors, or single people. If you are married I am going to guess that kids might be somewhere in the future, and thus car seats, and you want a midsize minimum.
Mazda3 FTW.
Unless you have elephant babies, carseats will fit just fine in one.
You need to be more specific. Since you are talking about a used car at under 15K, I assume you don’t want a compact that can be had new under 15k. There are plenty of cars in this price range. You need to be more specific on what you are looking for, and what attributes you value the most.
Used Honda Fit. Great cars. We’re getting between 37-45mpg with ours. Not sure how. The car is very fun to drive. And…it’s a Honda.
LeSabre.
As a satisfied Mazda3 owner, I have to recommend it!
NulloModo : The Mazda3, Honda Civic, or Focus SES w/ABS would also work, but really, compacts are for second cars, seniors, or single people. If you are married I am going to guess that kids might be somewhere in the future, and thus car seats, and you want a midsize minimum.
I can comfortably fit four of me in my Mazda3. Are car seats really that big?
You can get a new Mazda 3 for 15k – why bother with used? Be sure to compare prices and financing rates – you might not be getting as much of a deal on the used 3 as you’d think.
Buy any mazda you can shoehorn into your budget. Sounds like a 3 from here.
Fusion might be on the list, Fit, gen 1 Scion XB, RX8? Man that’s a stretch. I need more data!
Saturn Astra. 24/32 mpg. 4-wheel disc brakes with ABS, traction control, and electronic stability control, all standard. Fun to drive, too.
Quote kobo1d “Must get 30 Highway MPG to guarantee our low loan rate. ”
Huh?!?! What the heck kind of loan is that?
A few suggestions I haven’t seen above:
Used Acura TL-yes they can be found for under $15K
Used Mazda Six… Cheap Sixes are out there.
Used Nissan Maxima. Fun to drive sedan…
Used VW Jetta…maybe not so reliable but a cheap Autobahn-Burner
Used Mustang V6…OK not a sedan but fun, cheap and with an iconic history
rpn453 – No, not really that big, and a Mazda3 would probably work well, and I’m not even sure if the guy is planning on having kids or already has any. I myself drive a Mazda Protege5, which is the spiritual predecessor to the Mazda3 hatch, and I love it, but while it scores big on the fun to drive segment, and has plenty of room for me and what I do, it isn’t the most refined vehicle. A Fusion, Milan, or 6 is a full order of magnitude more quiet, comfortable, and refined, and just in my mind seems to fit the married lifestyle better than a 3.
Another vote for the Honda Fit. It meets every one of your criteria. We have one, and it is the first 4 cyl with an automatic that I have been able to enjoy driving. Try for the Sport model, though you may have to settle for one out of factory warranty. I think it would be worth the trade.
We have had zero problems with ours, and would buy another.
The Nissan Altima with the CVT and the 2.5 liter 4 will do 0-60 in about 8.5 seconds and return 25 MPG all around. It has plenty of room for the family. There should be lots of late model Altimas for under $15,000.
The Pontiac G6 (don’t laugh) had some great incentives the last I checked that put new models in the $15,000 range.
You might have a hard time finding one, but the Acura TSX is a very refined and comfortable car. We bought a certified used 2006 model in January for $16,800, but prices should have come down since then. The catch is the TSX gets surprisingly meh fuel economy. We average 22 MPG on midgrade.
Unless she is not able bodied I suggest you teach your wife how to drive stick. It will make any of the under $15,000 crowd more fun to drive.
I’m teaching a friend how to drive stick right now. She’s learning on the Miata, once she gets it I doubt she’ll ever go back.
Used Ford Fusions (or Mercury Milans) are a real bargain on the market. So far they are as reliable as a Camry or Accord, yet depreciate like an American car.
If you still want some warrenty, you’re probably looking at something certified-used and/or Carmax. You could get a Civic LX for under that easily (about 17K new), Mazda 3 should be similar (if harder to find).
If you want a wagon, go mazda or look for a Fit (good luck).
30 highway cuts out a lot (though most big 4 cyl should get in under that, Accord, Malibu etc). Finding a big one with significant warranty would be a trick. It also means Sabarus are out. How are you fixed for weather?
2007 Lincoln MKZ.
For 16K my mom got one with 27,000 miles. It has a 263hp V6, All Wheel Drive, a 6 speed automatic transmission, Gorgeous interior with cream leather heated and cooled seats and blonde real wood accents, sunroof, NAV system, 14 speaker THX Certified surround sound system, 17 inch alloy wheels, HID headlights, Remainder of 4 year 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty called “The Lincoln Commitment” Free loaner Car, other perks that my 2009 Toyota does not have on its 3/36 deal. It’s got such a solid feeling I am amazed every time I get behind the wheel. I discounted it at first as a just a fancy Fusion, (which I have never driven), Like a modern day Versailles, (which she had back in the day too) but if the Fusion is nearly as good as this car, then it should be a strong contender too. (and I am a 2009 Toyota, owner, and I would say give the Lincoln a chance because the Toyota is a real snoozer – I took the interior out of it an Dynomated it because of the road noise)
Its probably totally off your radar but it’s worth looking at.. Good Luck!
Oh, just noticed the 30MPG thing. The Lincoln only gets about 21 average. My 2009 Corolla gets 27MPG average, but for 6mpg’s it’s not worth it.
I just bought a new 2009 Subaru Legacy (manual though) for $18.5k out the door. I submitted a review to RF but never heard back so I don’t know if my review sucked or just disappeared into the ether. It is super fun, great tires and AWD. If you can find a Mazda 6 wagon that would be pretty cool. I think they stopped making them in 07 and they should be close to your price range. Watch out for fees and taxes if you go to Carmax.
BMW 3 Series sedan — nothing else comes close. My 1998 328i with 95k still looks and drives like a new car. 21 MPG around town and 33 MPG on the highway at 80+ mph. Will not be under warranty for only $15k, however. If you can stand FWD, Hyundai Sonata. Yes, apples to oranges here.
Twotone
My comments are similar to others’:
Top suggestion would be the Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan.
Otherwise:
Mazda6
Hyundai Sonata
Mazda3
A 2003.5 Mazdaspeed Protege. Use the extra cash to sort out the clunks in the suspension, replace the synchros and raise the boost to a more respectable 12-15 psi, and you’re good to go.
Wait… it has to be practical? Will a Honda Civic Si Sedan fit?
Go taboo and get a Mazda3 hatch or Honda Fit. Fit will be much smaller but slightly cheaper. Mazda3 will be faster but less frugal. But can’t go wrong with either. If you really need to get a sedan than a Mazda3 or Civic will work just fine.
I quintuple the motion on a Mazda3 … even with the 2.0L those cars are a great ride. Definitely the best C-segment car available in America.
I’ll chime in with the others here…Mazda 6 is a great bet. It’s no rocket, but it’s a very satisfying car to drive. These also have sequential-shift automatics, and Mazda programs them so you can wring the engine out.
Here’s a nice example:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=29139987&listingRecNum=5&criteria=sf1Dir%3DASC%26alMdId%3D21447%26mkId%3D20073%26stkTyp%3DU%26mdId%3D21447%26rd%3D40%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId%26zc%3D80134%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DDESC%26sf1Nm%3Dmiles%26sf2Nm%3Dprice%26alMkId%3D20073%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national
Also, check out the Saturn Aura – seriously underrated car. Lots of ’08s available in your price range, and it’s has a nicely sorted out chassis and lots of room. Plus, it’s a looker.
What, nobody’s gonna recommend a Chrysler Sebring?
I’d look into an Aura, Malibu, or G6 with the 2.4L 6-spd auto. I personally prefer that setup to the 2.3L 5-spd combo in the Fusion/Milan. The GM cars also have the advantage of getting 22/33/26 fuel economy while the Fords get 20/28/23.
However, be sure that if you test one of the GM products it has the 6-spd auto. The basic Hertz-spec 2.4L 4-spd auto option is awful.
______________________
And, just to give you a new one, check out the front-drive version of the Suzuki SX4 hatch.
Back in May I bought a 08 scion xD CPO for ~ 14.5k With Auto & 2 yrs left on the bumper to bumper. Its a nice car and would meet your “sedan/wagon/hatch still under factory bumper-to-bumper warranty, long-term reliable, and fun to drive. Wife can’t drive a stick, and ABS is mandatory. Must get 30 Highway MPG” criteria. with the bonus of being Consumer reports #1 most reliable car.
If it’s for the family lifestyle, I’m afraid I’d have to vote against the much-loved 3. I’m down with the Mazda6 and the Fusion/Milan if the mileage thing can be sorted out.
Another possibility would be a lightly used ’08 or ’09 Kia Optima; aside from pretty good mileage and reliability, they depreciate like a piano dropped from a tenth story window (and they were cheap to begin with). Pace twotone and Mr. Berkowitz, they’re also slightly more fun to drive than the Sonata, especially with the right options – although that’s not saying much.
Here’s a different suggestion, a used Saab. They have relatively fuel-efficient turbo 4-cylinder engines, are comfortable as anything on the market and depreciate worse than anything I’ve ever seen. Budget for an extended warranty and enjoy the best deal in a used car.
I am very satisfied with the Opel (Saturn) Astra i bought last year as a daily driver. Good brakes, very nicely weighted steering, pleasant in the city but with a proper feel at high speeds, taut yet not overly firm suspension. The interior is a little bit stark, but practical and hard wearing. It also has been perfectly reliable.
Saturn Astra is awesome and without a doubt where my 15k would go.
Your money would also be well spent on a certified Mazda 3 with the 2 liter in the hatch.
Honda Fit Sport rocks!
You can impress your bank with the fuel mileage of the 2006 VW Jetta TDI which is in your price range.
First of all, thank you to the amazing team at TTAC for posting my question, and thank all of you for responding. I kept the original question short, as most of the other AtB&B were about that length. I’ll try to cover everything:
The Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Loan Rate: The credit union approved our loan at 4.49%, but there is a half-percent reduction for buying a “fuel efficient” auto, by their definition 30 Highway MPG or less. I even checked if it’s official EPA or estimated new EPA for 2007 and older, it’s the estimated, lower value (so a 2007 Mazda6 gets 32 officially, but doesn’t qualify because of the revision).
Could consider new over used, but with the state of inventories right now, hard to get a deal on a high MPG new car.
Important attributes: This car will need to last 10 years, with as little maintenance as possible. The car needs to comfortably seat 2, and be able seat 4 in moderate comfort for, say, a road trip with friends. Enough space to fit camping gear in (though if we can fit it all in my Eclipse, almost anything should qualify…) Needs to be safe, both actively and passively. The car needs to be something that is and will be still enjoyable to drive years from now. Neither of us can stand numb steering or high seating position. Acceleration isn’t a major consideration; it’s not going to be my car. Interior quality is also important.
No kids for now, though toward the end of this car’s lifetime, it will probably have a car seat in the back.
I’ve offered to teach her to row her own, to no avail. Something about traffic being a pita…
Weather is Sacramento, California. Winter = rain. Will see snow maybe twice a year when we head up the mountain.
Keep ’em coming, I’m going to look into them all.
Interesting thing about the credit union, everyone I’ve talked to both in person at the branch and over the phone at their call center about the fuel efficient loan program offhandedly suggested Toyota, and Honda as a place to start, like somehow the brands were the only that sold fuel efficient cars.
i’d go for a Milan or G6. i think probably the Milan is a better bet but i like the looks of the G6. or an SX4
Buy a new Pontiac Vibe. Maybe doesn’t fit the “fun-to-drive” category too well but it hits on all the rest. 30mpg and a great set of safety hardware (front and side airbags, ESC, ABS, 4-wheel Disks are all standard). Pontiac is a dead brand, but the Vibe is a Matrix/Corolla underneath. Neither of the Toyota’s can be had for 13k brand-new like the Vibe.
TOYOTA PRIUS my friend!
I can’t believe 37 B&B replies and none recommended the Prius??!! Not very B&B really is it (unless you are set on buying/recommending US made of course)
Soooo….forget what you have heard about it on here and in the media, and go for a test drive before you make any more judgments about it!!!….more to the point, let her test drive it….she will I am sure, find it is fun to drive (How low can you go with the MPG, EV only mode in carparks etc. etc. after all, speeding is soooo 2005 dahling:)
It really is easy to drive, usually has a rear camera so she doesn’t run over the kids to be, funky eco-graphics that do impress, you are funding the A-rabs less than if you had any other car on the market, it has bags of space for your junk/kids to be, It has real world 50ish MPG, it doesn’t go wrong (not 1 battery returned in 10 years of sales) and finally….cough cough, It’s cool :)
That said, I don’t know if you can source one for 15K in the US….
Disclosure:
I do not hold Toyota stocks and I sold my 350Z and having bought an electric bike in it’s place, I am totally objective in my recommendation!!
I’m shopping nearly the same spec, but requiring a manual transmission (much smaller selection). Here’s my list:
New Honda Civic base or used more upscale trim
New Honda Fit base or used more upscale trim
Saab 9-5 wagon (manual hard to find)
VW Passat Wagon (with the 4-banger)
Ford Fusion (4 cyl. manual very hard to find)
If I compromise a bit on MPG, I’d add the Subaru Outback. I’ve rented a Toyota Camry and was saddened by the blandness of it all. I’ve rented a Kia and was unimpressed by the build quality compared to Honda.
My reference car for interior size is my old Volvo 850. Surprising fact: the current Honda Civic is larger in every dimension . . .
+1 for a Fusion or Milan. Especially if you are going to need the extra space at some point. Get the 5 speed stick, and you’ll have the same drivetrain as the Mazda3, same mileage too.
Make sure you get the SEL or Premier trim, though. You should be able to pick up a 2007 or 2008 with leather and roof in your price range. Watch the options, everything is optional – CD changer, heated seats, spoiler and on earlier ones the side curtain airbags were optional.
Skip that goofy bank. 1/2 point will be about $3.00 a month, so who cares?
A Mazda 3 does NOT fit a rear facing car seat well.
In September of last year I wanted a Mazda3, as my buddy just purchased one. Wife was due in November and so I put the car seat int he Mazda3. Only a double amputee could sit in the front with the seat installed in back.
Ended up with an ’05 Scion ‘xB.
Beware the rear facing car seat. My brothers Honda Pilot even has space issued with one of those installed.
Given that you want it to last 10 years, I assume that you want something that will still be a decently solid car in 10 years…
With that said, I’d remove any mazda 3, or 6 from my list.
Sorry, but [so far] they just don’t age well; – especially with the slush box.
With the 10 year requirement, I’d pay the [higher mileage at purchase] premium and go for the accord myself. – just the Lx or Ex.
If you don’t want something that big, the civic EX.
should still be able to find something with under 30k miles on it and in ‘like new’ shape…
Cliff Notes version
Fusion/Milan
Sonata/Optima
Mazda 6
Pontiac Vibe
All of them are high quality vehicles that have been made for a long time, and offer steep discounts vis-a-vis the competition.
Test drive them all and figure out what the wife likes the best. I would encourage getting a certified pre-owned unit which usually offers a longer warranty than the new car version. Since you’re risk averse and not ‘into’ cars, this is the way I would encourage you to go.
sutski>
Your solution doesn’t work in the price range he’s looking.
Secondly, I have driven a prius and it is 0 fun to drive, honestly. There isn’t even a manual option!
Audi A4 Avant. Meets all your criteria. 2006’s are available certified pre-owned in my area, under $15k….you won’t be disappointed.
The previous generation Mazda6 5 door (hatchback) is fabulous. In addition to being a completely reliable, fun to drive sedan, the hatchback makes it incredibly versatile for those occasions when you need to haul a bunch of extra stuff. Like a large, fully assembled snowblower.
I wish there were more cars with this configuration – it doesn’t look hatchbacky, but drop the rear seats, and you have more space than a lot of the compact SUVs. Even with the seats up, it’s a rather spacious trunk area.
Mazda 3. It’s that easy.
The Sonata is a nice suggestion, but from what I’ve heard, a lot of them have suspension noise that Hyundai won’t fix.
In May, we picked up a BRAND NEW 2009 Sonata 4 cyl., automatic, power driver’s seat/upgraded interior, XM radio and Bluetooth for $14,700 with a full 10 year drivetrain warrantee.
Why buy used?
The rig is regularly exceeding the EPA mpg ratings, too. I believe it is at least 30 mpg on the highway… We’re regularly getting 27-28 in commuting, 31-32 on the highway.
It’s big enough inside for several car seats for babies, has a huge trunk.
We’re on #3 Sonata (2002, 2007, 2009). No suspension noises, never heard of anyone complaining about suspension noises.
Rear-facing car seats suck. We had serious trouble fitting one to a 1999 Legacy sedan (I’m 6’3, wife’s 5’10, so YMMV). My 2002 Dodge Ram quad cab *just* fits one behind either seat, but I sit unnaturally close to the wheel for someone my height. I prefer my knees to lightly graze the knee bolster if possible as I get a more comfortable elbow/shoulder angle in most cars.
No way are you getting a rear-facer in a Mazda3. If kids will occur before you dump the car, keep that in mind or plan to dump the car when the time comes.
With the Fit and Mazda3: I personally think it’s dumb to buy used, especially late-model used. They don’t depreciate. With the Mazda you’re almost out of the full warranty before they drop below 15k. A new Fit base model/stick can be had for 15,400 IIRC. Then again, I think the Fit is crap. It’ll be fine if your front seat passengers all are left arm amputees and everyone riding in the car is deaf already.
Buy something that depreciates more. Mazda6/Fusion, even Malibu/Aura/G6. They’re probably more the size you need, close if not at your mileage target, and price drops off a lot quicker. Even a Nissan Versa hatch, which I found to have near cavernous interior for its expected size class (just be careful that it’s adequately equipped as many are really stripped).
Here are some nice cars that I’ve seen for sale near that $15k point:
– Benz E350 Sedan (2005)
– Lexus ES250 (2006)
– Lexus IS250
Yes, the Benz is not as reliable as a Civic. But it’s a top-shelf name. Standard of the world, as they say.
10 year old BMW does not equal reliable.
Fun to drive is pretty subjective, especially in the 30 mpg category. Mazda 3 is probably the best bet.
German cars are made to be leased or driven as 3rd cars by people with cash on hand for the repairs and maint.
E46 BMW 3 series. Tough car, very high fun factor and still fun with 100k miles.
This is excellent! My wife and I are in the same situation. I’ve sent her a link to this…
Thanks TTAC!
“Audi A4 Avant. Meets all your criteria. 2006’s are available certified pre-owned in my area, under $15k….you won’t be disappointed.”
Mind if I ask what area that is…? This is exactly the car I’m looking for myself, and I don’t see these much below $25K on the Audi CPO site.
My choices plus favs of those above…
Mazd6…lots.
http://usedcars.overstock.com/cars/used-for-sale-Mazda.Mazda6/location-60175/sort-price/range-50
Mazda3
http://usedcars.overstock.com/cars/used-for-sale-Mazda.Mazda3/location-60175/sort-price/range-50
Fusion
http://usedcars.overstock.com/cars/used-for-sale-Ford.Fusion/location-60175/sort-price/range-50
Malibu..make SURE it doesn’t have 4 speed trans!
http://usedcars.overstock.com/cars/used-for-sale-Chevrolet.Malibu/location-60175/year-2007.2008/sort-price/range-50
Impreza
http://usedcars.overstock.com/cars/used-for-sale-Subaru.Impreza/location-60175/year-2007.2008/sort-price/range-50
Almost none of the cars recommended get 30 mpg.
On that note you should realize that a half of a percent rate increase even if you financed the full 15k for 4 years is only $3.39 a month difference. So for $163 over 4 years I would drop that requirement and open up my range of cars I was looking at.
Look into the XRS version of the Corolla/Matrix or GT version of the Vibe (pre-’08 MY). Being the “Fun version” of a boring car, they come out as a decent compromise. I drove an ’04 Matrix XRS until just last year.
The downside is that the Matrix XRS came out almost exclusivly as a 6-MT, though they did make a few AT versions one or two years (I’m thinking around ’05). And the smaller, high-rev engine doesn’t make for an easy car to learn manual on. But in the big picture, a new clutch isn’t THAT expensive.
Upside is that you’ll be able to get the price, reliability and room that you were looking for. Safety is good as well with ABS standard, and side-curtains a popular option. Also, since XRS/GT were the top trims, most everything was included and the interior was much better than stock corolla. I’m not positive what the MPG rating was, but I ran it at high 20’s to mid-30’s on a regular basis, so the rating is probably up there.
Outside of that, my other choices would echo what’s been said:
Mazda3, Mazda6, Scion TC, Astra, Fusion.
Any others that I can think of would be bigger and kill your MPG target (Grand Prix, Altima come to mind). If you’re going to do that though, you can take my route and get an RX-8. You’ll never get close to 30 mpg, but just won’t care.
Oh, last minute thought: Civic SI
Same principle as above, a “Fun Version” of a boring car. Maybe a good compromise.
We got really good service out of our ’03 Matrix AWD. Put 166,000 + miles on it and NO problems, no repairs, no nut’in. Changed the oil and tires when needed and that was it. Traded it and a clunker for a ’10 Subie Forester. Wanted more room with similar economy.
As a Mazda3 wagon owner, I’d suggest a Civic sedan. I’ve been very fond of my 3 after 3.5 years and 60k miles but the Civic will probably feel “tighter” after 10 years and be cheaper to run (fuel efficiency included). I’d suggest the Fusion as well, but I’m not sure if the mileage will be enough for you.
Don’t waste your time with Euro-brands, whether new or used…it’ll just be headaches down the road. My parents gave me their 2002 E430 4matic when my 84 760 died (wife’s) and it’s at the shop right now for a new front axle, front bushings, AC recharge (something else going on in the system…recharged last year), plus the 100K service. I’d imagine the bill will be near the price of a 10-year old car. Otherwise, it still drives solid and returns excellent mileage for a V8 AWD sedan. The W210 chassis is probably the only decent Mercedes product from the Diamler-Chrysler era, and that isn’t saying much for the W210.
Mazda 3. I’ve recommended it to people before and they’ve been happy with their purchase.
Mazda 6, preferably the MazdaSpeed turbo version, although the V6 is nice, too. I had one as a rental once and was shocked at how good the thing handled, especially for a FWD 4-door family sedan. Should be reliable and have low operating costs, too.
Also, look into a turbocharged Legacy GT or a WRX.
It’s hard to find an unhappy mazda3 driver.
My 05 xB gets 30 mpg city and hauls 5 pretty well. If you do any highway driving, I don’t recommend the stick shift since it becomes buzzy at high speeds.
How about the oft overlooked (because it lives in the shadow of its GTI brother) Jetta GLI? You get the lovely 2.0T, and if you get an ’06 or ’07 with the DSG, the pre-revised EPA highway figure is 32 mpg if I remember correctly.
As almost everyone else has noted, hard to go wrong with the Mazda3.
Oh, I should also note on the Mazda3…a rear-facing carseat wasn’t too much of an issue, I didn’t ride as passenger much though but the wife didn’t complain too much. It’s temporary anyways.
Most of these desirable used cars people are recommending don’t depreciate much – thus not a great used car bargain. If you want a Fit/Mazda3 or the like, just buy it new.
Mazdas depreciate much more than a Honda or Toyota. My 3 wagon is worth about $11k less than when I bought it new in May 2006…$12k vs $23k. Since there has been a redesign for 2010, the leftover 2009 models are being discounted.
If active lifestyles or potential kids are in the mix then a wagon will offer a lot more versatility than a sedan. Don’t underestimate your future needs to haul stuff, so I would stay away from a compact sedan/hatch/wagon purely based on size. My 5 year old Mazda 6 wagon is approaching 70,000 miles and it has simply been a fantastic daily driver. Other good used choices include the Subaru Legacy wagon (no longer produced) if you care about AWD or a VW Passat wagon if you like that Euro feel and don’t mind the occasional repair bill. There are some good choices out there, have fun shopping!
If you consider Hyundais fun to drive, leftover 2009 Elantras and Sonatas have big rebates on them ($2,000 & $3,000). And since C4C is over, you should be able to get one at/below invoice pre-rebate.
Or for a used car value and to play on the Fusion/Milan theme, 2006 Lincoln Zephyr if you’re willing to get a car with 40,000 miles on it.
And definitely let everyone know what you decided upon.
Used Scion or used Accord.
Not sure of your age, but if you guys are thinking of having a kid and you really do need this car to last 10 years, you will need space in your back seat to go with the LATCH system.
If you get a 3, unless you AND your wife are 5’6 or shorter, you WILL have a problem. Sure, the car seat will fit back there, but only if you move the front seats forward A LOT.
I’m going to agree with a few other posters here and say Saturn Astra. I’ve had very few problems and I seen several 4-doors for under $15K with less than 20,000 miles. I have even seen a couple 3-doors for $12K with practically no miles.
Here’s a different suggestion, a used Saab. They have relatively fuel-efficient turbo 4-cylinder engines, are comfortable as anything on the market and depreciate worse than anything I’ve ever seen. Budget for an extended warranty and enjoy the best deal in a used car.
Find a tame Saab fixer as well. the dealer always managed to find about a grands worth of stuff to fix each visit.
I don’t have the time to read the previous comments, but a Mazda3 hatch seems to be the obvious choice to me. Fun, affordable, practical. When test driving several years ago, the automatic seemed to work perfectly fine to me, though I prefer a stick, which I also test drove. I ended up buying a Mazda6 sedan, and while I did not care for the appearance of the wagon version, I thought the hatch was fine. A 6 would offer more room, and my sedan has been a blast for the past nearly 5 years now. You may have some trouble finding a Mazda6 hatch as it was not one of the more popular cars sold to say the least.
Remind her that living with a manual saves you about $1,000-$2,000… money that can buy you a better car. The marginal benefit of an automatic transmission is not very high… not even close compared to such things as a reasonably good audio system or air conditioning. Frankly, a navigation system adds more to my life than an automatic would, even when I’m driving in my home city. Finding obscure addresses is baby simple with a nav system.
But I digress.
The Mazda3 is the one. There are other fun-to-drive cars in this general category (the Saturn Astra is underrated, but less reliable). And you could probably get an ’07 Accord with a stick in your price range (that’s my daily driver, and I really love it, even with the I4).
My wife has an ’09 Fit with 5MT. I like it a lot. But I liked the Mazda3 better.
Can you borrow a car with a stick for a month (or buy a really cheap one that is still in good mechanical condition) so that she can see if driving a manual is really the terrible experience she thinks it is? It’s sort of like graduating from cheap teabags to quality loose tea; there’s no going back.
Your considerations (a safe, 30 mpg hwy, reliable, fun sedan/hatch/wagon) are pretty close to mine (though my wife’s MPG requirement isn’t as high as mine), so I’ll just tell you what I’m thinking about (plus a couple others I’d recommend you check out):
Vibe/Matrix – The auto isn’t as fun as the stick, but the practicality is great (we have an ’03 Matrix going strong with 94k, so I’m biased). The Vibe’s can be had real cheap (I’ve seen some new right arounf $15, though probably with a stick).
Fusion/Milan – Though I am not sure the MPGs meet your requirements (’09 is listed at 22/28 – which is funny because owners report a higher actual mpg than the Accord which is listed at 21/30) (The ’10 is rated at 34, but may not be down to $15k yet)
Accord (or Civic/Fit) – All get 30+ highway, have the Honda reputation for reliability, are safe… Depreciation is better (or worse, if you’re buying) than most others, so you may get a little less bang for your buck than some others.
Malibu – 22/33mpg, lots of airbags, better than average interior, reliability has looked good so far.
A couple other choices that I am not sure about the reliability – Saturn Astra, Mazda3
Hyundais(& Kias) and Pontiacs previously mentioned have been left off the list, because the rentals I’ve had (Sonata, Elantra, G6) have always made me happy that they weren’t mine.
We’re also looking at some compact SUVs, a couple crossovers, and one mini-minivan because we already have the kids in carseats, but I left those out.
I test drove Mazda 3 and Honda Civics in 2008. Mazda 3 was more fun to drive. Honda gets better mileage (I average 35 mpg, mostly highway), not as fun to drive, but not boring by my standards. I drove a 2005 Corrolla rental a year before: snoozefest.
Almost new private sale 2006 Civic fell in my lap (not literally) but price too good to not buy.
Civic had better safety equipment and ratings.
Except the new Mazda3 has a red-lit instrument panel. To my taste it looks like a bordello. I want to drive cars, not dance tango with them. If it were not for this rude red lighting I would include Mazda3 on my shopping list, as well.
Sorry Astra fans but. . . do you honestly believe that GM ( or Roger Penske )is going to give any priority to a Opel built in Belgium and only sold here for 2 years as far as parts availability? Who’s gonna bother stocking anything for these cars in even 5 years, much less 10 ? Will Opel, Saturn or even GM exist? The “Important attributes: This car will need to last 10 years, with as little maintenance as possible” . . . might be possible, but what if anything does break? Sounds like a lot of long distance phone calls to Antwerp.
Up that by 2.3k and get an ’09 Civic Coupe LX with a manual transmission. You’ll also get 34 mpg in a car that is rather zippy and will last years…
Test drive a new Honda Fit and then test drive a new Scion xD. You will leave with the xD
Test drive a new Honda Fit and then test drive a new Scion xD. You will leave with the xD
Then test drive a Mazda, even one of the CUVs, and you’ll feel just how much better a car can handle the road.
By the way, ignoring the issue of the loan “requirements”, a Mazda6 with the V6 gets 23 mpg in mixed driving and cracks 30 mpg on long highway jaunts, particularly if you can buy non-alcoholic fuel. For me the fun of the V6 makes up for the relatively small fuel mileage penalty I’m paying. I’d estimate that I would get no better than 27 mpg in mixed driving, if I had the I4 engine. This means, I would have saved ~400 gallons of gas over the past 4.67 years, or a little less than 90 gallons per year. Even at $3 per gallon that’s only $270 per year. The enjoyment from flooring it with the V6 is worth $270 per year to me. As others have pointed out, your not even saving $270 over the life of the loan with that 0.5% interest you save by getting a car rated at 30+ mpg highway. Is it really worth that small amount of interest saved if you end up settling for your second or third choice?
26theone wrote:
You should realize that a half of a percent rate increase even if you financed the full 15k for 4 years is only $3.39 a month difference. So for $163 over 4 years I would drop that requirement and open up my range of cars I was looking at.
+1 !!!!! You’re severely limiting yourself to save $3/month on the loan? Soon that will be less than 1 gallon of gas. Not worth it!
Most of the cars listed are good choices, however If your looking to keep one for the long term I would not choose Hyundai.
Hyundai’s seem to have serious mechanical and suspension flaws around 63,000 miles (2002-2004 models so far). Most of the guys here don’t seem to have kept them long enough to see if they are good long term vehicles.
08 Chevy Cobalt Sport sedan can be had with leather, moonroof out the door for around 15K. Mileage in low 30,000 range. G6 also a great deal.
A Cobalt with that kind of mileage could be found for under $10K, what a worthless POS. By just walking into a showroom, you could walk out with a 2010 model for $15k and fully optioned.
TEXN3 :
August 26th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
A Cobalt with that kind of mileage could be found for under $10K, what a worthless POS. By just walking into a showroom, you could walk out with a 2010 model for $15k and fully optioned.
He’s talking about the SS version, which is only worthless if you somehow disdain cars with an overabundance of horsepower and handling ability.
Speaking of the Cobalt SS, I was somewhat enamored with the Chevrolet HHR SS, which is basically the wagon version of the Cobalt. The styling is considerably different, which to me is a good thing as the 4-door Cobalt has to be one of the most boring appliances to look at on the market.
I drove a regular HHR as a rental and, other than poor visibility out due to the small windows, seeme like a roomy, practical, and qietly competent vehicle. The SS version with the reportedly superb turbocharged ecotec motor, suspension, and interior improvements seems like a potential winner, especially if resale value follows traditional Chevrolet patterns.
The HHR SS is fairly rare, though, so I’m not sure if they can be had for the $15k limit, but since they only sold for about $25k or so new I have to imagine they might be.
I missed the “Super Sport” part but I still stand by my previous comment.
With that said, a car is more than just the engine. I’ve driven the Turbo version of the SS coupe, it handled well and was fast…but no where near as refined as the Mazdaspeed3. And both have much more power than I’d like from a FWD compact chassis, that does not aid in it’s “overabundance of handling capabilities” no matter what the differential may be or the tires being used.
It’s definitely not a “10-year” car in terms of ownership.
Sorry Astra fans but. . .
Oh, don’t be sorry. The current North American version of the Saturn Astra is the previous version of the Opel Astra from Europe, which was a best-seller (for a reason) for years. Plus, the Astra will be sold in Canada going forward.
I’m not worried in the slightest about parts availability. The Astra is easily a 10-year (plus) car.
I’d say Civic Si as well if the MT isn’t TOO big of a deal. It’s a very fun car to drive and although EPA highway is 29 I got 34 mpg last fill-up with about 75% highway driving. Plenty of room for a “compact”, very safe, great seats, great stereo, FWD for those inclement-weather conditions and you can get a used one (2008 MY) for around 15k.
I’ve also owned a Mazda 3 GT in the past and it’s a great choice but not as fun to drive as the Si, although probably slightly more fun than a non-Si Civic.
In May, we picked up a BRAND NEW 2009 Sonata 4 cyl., automatic, power driver’s seat/upgraded interior, XM radio and Bluetooth for $14,700 with a full 10 year drivetrain warrantee.
This is a little misleading, since Hyundai had a $2000 rebate and a $1500 owner loyalty rebate going back in May. Right now, owner loyalty is gone and the rebate is $3000.
You still got an all in deal from that dealer, though.
If numb steering is an issue… I’d cross out any Toyotas newer than 08… the previous Corolla platform had pretty horrible steering, but at least it had proper weighting.
The Honda Fit’s electric steering is an issue for many people, but for the truly dedicated, that’s an issue that lasts for all of five minutes before you’re flinging it around like a big go-kart. I’d recommend the new Civic, but it’s not very comfortable for long trips (too stiff).
The best steering racks, bar-none, in your criteria range belong to the previous Protege, the Mazda6, the Honda Accord and the Mazda3… in order of preference. A 2.4 Accord or 2.3 Mazda6 should fit your bill nicely.
Mazdas have their issues… but if you’re not a hoontastic owner, you can avoid dropped engine mounts, blown engines and the like quite easily. The only non-hoon related issues that are prevalent on Mazdas (as long as you don’t get the turbocharged versions) are the rubber bushings, which are wear items, anyway.
Besides, buying secondhand means that the previous owner has already taken care of most of the warranty and recall issues with a car, anyway… and buying a previous generation Mazda6 or Mazda3 means that you’re getting a car at the end of its life-cycle, where all the bugs have been ironed out, already.
Back from some test driving. Wow, such a long list to get through. So far almost 50 different cars have been suggested.
First up was the nearest dealer…Hyundai. Drove an Elantra and a Sonata. Both very respectively equipped for their price, though neither of us liked the Elantra. The Sonata is a decent car, and bang for buck looks like a good benchmark. Only problem…boring! What the car lacks in fun to drive it makes up for in other ways. But we want to have our cake and eat it too.
Next stop was Ford. No Fusions on the lot-at all. Epic fail, Ford. Drove a used Focus since we were there already…cheap price, and decent steering. Otherwise total rubbish. I really hope the Fusion isn’t as bad.
Carmax was our last stop for the day. They had a lot of cars we could have tested that were suggested here, but after the first two drives the salesman was looking at us a little bit like we were crazy and we got the feeling test drive time was over. The two cars we did get to drive: Civic and Mazda 3. The Civic was decent, pricey (doubly so here, remember we’re at Carmax), but of course doesn’t depreciate much either. Comfortable, not as much as a Sonata, but better than an Elantra or Focus. The dash was awkward, multi-tiered and seemingly 12 feet deep, I didn’t mind but she didn’t like it. Plus, as far as fun, about as much as a Hyundai…as in not much. Why not get more (bland) car for less?
The Mazda 3 is everything mentioned here and more. It was seemingly perfect. Though it was slow (2.0 engine), and a bit small (back seat), the rest of the car was phenomenal. She was ready to buy, though the one we were in was previous rental and of course we have tons more cars to sample. New requirement for recommendations: has to equal or better the 3.
I want to go test a 6 now. If its just a bigger, more powerful 3 (which it looks to be) then that porridge might be not too hot and not too cold.
Boy, I’ll bet the sales people at the respective numerous dealerships you are visiting really enjoy participating in your odyssey.
Do what the salesperson will most likely try to do to you, screw them. They have nothing else better to do than sit on their ass and eat french fries.
I test drove an 07 CRV at the local dealership, the saleslacker decided to try out the reclining rear seat and damned near fell asleep. Must have been tired from walking that empty GM lot all day.
Update: We ended up with a Mazda 3i. We don’t really need the extra space of a midsize, and the 3 was the best overall car for the price.