TTAC commentator Geo. Levecque writes:
Hello Sajeev, greetings from Canada. If you switch Oil to Synthetic, can you go back to the old stuff? If it matters, I am asking about my 2008 Toyota RAV4 2008, 4 Cyl, with 18,000 kms on it.
Sajeev replies:
Your engine is a baby. Not because it’s small and lives in a cute-ute, but because your new-ish Toyota isn’t set in its own way. Parts in your engine don’t yet move to their own (microscopic) groove. As engines get older and tolerances change, switching between synthetic and dino oils makes your motor fight its natural, programmed movements. For now, this isn’t a big deal.
So you can, but after your motor clocks 100,000+ kms, you run the risk of upsetting the delicate balance that synthetic oil worked hard to create. I personally don’t think it’s a wise idea. And won’t recommend it.
Bonus! A Piston Slap Nugget of Wisdom:
Walk into any parts store and you’ll see specific oils made for high mileage vehicles. You are usually asked (by their accounting department) to switch to these oils after 75k (miles) for longer life. These oils have extra additives to help older engines reduce oil consumption, plug leaks or make a host of funny noises (like timing chain rattle or main bearing grumbles) go away. Which is nice, in theory.
In reality, an engine with 75k isn’t much different than one with 10k. Modern engines easily run past 150k with little or no change in performance. So change your oil regularly, use a good filter and stick with your regiment for the rest of your (car’s) life. That is the only way to fly.
[Send your technical queries to mehta@ttac.com]
Switch back and forth between types and/or brands of modern motor oils all you want. There is no truth to the myth that you have to stick with a synthetic forever once using it.
Contrary to a widely repeated meme, engines do not “get used to” any particular motor oil.
John Horner versus Sajeev Mehta verbal fight coming up!
My money is on Horner with this one…
John- got any cites on this?
I tend to agree with you if only because all motor oil has a mil spec and part of the spec is interchangability regardless of brand.
Sajeev-
Some ‘high milage oils’ or additives have a little kerosene in them to swell dry seals. It works, but the seals never stop swelling, causing them to wear out even faster.
What is synthetic?
What isn’t?
The boundaries are quite blurry these days, especially in the latest formulations.
So before you can even debate, you have to define the terms.
Of course there is an entire website forum (which seems to have 120 people on average looking at it at any given time) devoted to these discussions, LOL.
For you recent TTACers, here’s my myth-busting addition to the perpetual motor-oil debate:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/peek-oil/
Over the decades, there’s been all kinds of handwaving and myth-weaving about switching (some go so far as to call it “converting”) to synthetic, switching back to dinosaur squeezings after having run synthetic, etc. Almost none of the “common knowledge” has got a shred of science behind it. Most of it originates from the fact that the first widely-available synthetics were of low viscosity ratings (e.g., 5w30) relative to the high viscosity ratings (e.g., 20w40 or straight 30-weight) of regular oils in use at the time. Also, most engines of that time were relatively poorly sealed; oil leakage of some degree was utterly common. Thinner oil leaks out of marginal gaskets and seals faster than thicker oil…and thus was born the myth that synthetic oil causes leaks.
Horner is correct: engines do not “get used to” this or that oil. Switching amongst different oils does not “make your motor fight its natural, programmed movements”, whatever that was supposed to mean (and BTW, it’s not a “motor”, it’s an engine; the terms are not synonymous).
Cnguy is also correct: So-called “high-mileage engine” oils are a waste of money at best. At worst, they bring the very real risk of worsening leaks in the long run.
And Niedermeyer is quite correct: In North America we change oil far oftener than is necessary or beneficial.
I can see why I am wrong, so I’ll happily fess up to it. But first, a little explanation.
—————————
DJS: Most of it originates from the fact that the first widely-available synthetics were of low viscosity ratings (e.g., 5w30) relative to the high viscosity ratings (e.g., 20w40 or straight 30-weight) of regular oils in use at the time. Also, most engines of that time were relatively poorly sealed; oil leakage of some degree was utterly common. Thinner oil leaks out of marginal gaskets and seals faster than thicker oil…and thus was born the myth that synthetic oil causes leaks.
Except I switched to Synthetic on a somewhat tight toleranced motor (Modular 4.6L) with 115k, same weight (5w30) between both. A common fail point, the oil filter adapter gasket, busted loose within weeks of the switch. I attribute that to switching to an oil with thinner molecules, but the same weight. Is that fair?
And if so, isn’t there a problem with the converse? That is, switching to an oil with thicker molecules (dino) on a high mileage motor. Because, with my luck, that gasket WILL leak again if I make the switch back to 5w30 dino. (joking, I think)
———————————-
DJS: (and BTW, it’s not a “motor”, it’s an engine; the terms are not synonymous).
Ok, ok…now you’re just being difficult. :) Those big bars connecting two sides of an axle are not called “sway bars” or “roll bars”, and people say “pounds” when they mean PSI…but you don’t see me complaining.
Bigger fish to fry, and such.
Buy the cheapest oil you can find that fulfills API-SM requirements.
Get a decent filter (does not have to be Mobil 1, AC Delco should be fine) and change every 5k.
That’s all you need. Cost, about $10 per oil change or less if you shop around.
cnyguy : Some ‘high mileage oils’ or additives have a little kerosene in them to swell dry seals. It works, but the seals never stop swelling, causing them to wear out even faster.
Good point that I forgot to mention. I’d like to think the newer versions of this (bad) idea skipped the Kerosene route. That’d really lower my stock in Mobil’s high mileage retail oils.
I suggest Sajeev puts together a technical advisory board to trap myths and misconceptions before he adds his own (mis-)interpretation and spreads them around further in his blog. Or on any particular subject (mechanical, electrical, tires, oil, whatever), just ask on Bobistheoilguy.com for a consensus…
There’s a lot of discussion on this and other web sites regarding what oil to use and when to change it. Similar discussions abound regarding gasoline brand and/or octane rating. Some of these discussion are based on facts, most based on opinions.
What I have yet to see is an informed discussion on another key component to engine longevity and performance — the air filter. I’m as big of a stickler in changing air filters as I am for oil changes (especially in dry, dusty or polluted environments). If the quality of oil and gas are important, shouldn’t the quality (cleanliness) of the air your engine uses be equally important?
No intent to hijack this thread, but I would like to see information regarding the optimal time to change air filters.
Thanks in advance,
Twotone
@Mehta:
A common fail point, the oil filter adapter gasket, busted loose within weeks of the switch. I attribute that to switching to an oil with thinner molecules, but the same weight. Is that fair?
Nope, it’s most likely down to nothing more or less than the oil filter adaptor being a common point of failure.
(I’m swinging my right foot back and forth through a 15-degree arc right now, to keep away alligators. There are no alligators in my living room right now, so it must be working, right? Wrong! Correlation does not imply causation.)
As for terminology, surely people misuse it all the time. That doesn’t mean it’s OK — why don’t we all just regress to pointing and grunting? — but more to the point, it doesn’t mean you should do so when you’re trying to present authoritative information.
@twotone: Air filters are important, for sure, and there’s a great deal more marketeering bullѕhit than facts and data; K&N is one of the worst offenders (and one of the worst filters, as it seems). This writeup is a good start at comparing air filter efficacy, though its scope is limited.
@Steven Lang: Your advice leans in the right direction, but I don’t think it’s specific enough. The cheapest off-brand oil is very likely to bear an unwarranted statement of API service grade; anybody can print up labels by the million, and if there’s no reputable company behind the label, any effort at enforcement is pointless. I’d say pick the least-costly reputable-brand oil of the correct viscosity grade and API service level for the application. As for filters, “get a good one” is fine, but not precise enough. “Buy a reputable-brand filter and not a Fram” gets much closer.
I’m familiar with the arguments made by John Horner et. al., but those don’t seem to mesh with real world examples of when there are genuine differences in how they perform, such as sludging problems that can be avoided with the use of synth oil. (The VAG 1.8 liter turbo is a prime example of this.) As they aren’t identical oils and there are genuine examples of when using one is better than the other, I can’t imagine that there would be absolutely no differences in operating characteristics.
Call me superstitious, but I would run new cars on synth oil once broken in, and then not switch, while I would continue to use dino oil in older engines that have always used it. In the case of the RAV4 above, I’d choose one variant early in the life of the vehicle and stay with it, while adhering to whatever specs that Toyota may have for it.
In a normally aspirated engine, I would say change your oil and filter regularly (5000 mile interval should be fine) with whatever good quality oil you can afford.
In turbocharged or supercharged engines, where oil not only lubricates the engine, but the charge compressor as well, use synthetic. Synthetics have better resistance to thermal stress. Anything that compresses air will get hot, and synthetic oil will deal with that extra heat better than dino juice.
-ted
twotone; a dirty air filter will probably trap more dirt very effectively, perhaps better than a new one. But less air gets through, which used to be more of a problem than it is with newer cars, which automatically adjust for reduced airflow to not upset the mixture.
The old rule was to hold a work lamp behind the air filter, to see if light still came through. If not, high time to change.
There will likely never be agreement on motor oil issues, but one thing is clear: certain engines, especially known “sludgers”, are much more sensitive than others. If your engine is known to be sensitive, heads up. If not, Steven Lang’s recommendation is right.
Keep in mind that so many brands have been bought by other companies, that its very hard to know whose oil you’re using. If it meets the manufacturer’s specs, even cheap-brand oils are good to go. Unless you like to waste $.
Daniel… you have a point… I’ll qualify it.
Any Advance Auto Parts or Supertech filter should be absolutely fine. The former goes for about $1.50 (you have to ask for it at the counter). The later goes for around $2.40.
Any oil sold in a reputable store (Auto Parts Stores, Discount Superstores) should be perfectly fine. Look for the API-SM designation.
Changing the oil on the Insight costs less than $5. Having an AAP filter and looking for motor oil on sale goes a long way. As does the 2.5 quart oil capacity.
Oh come ON guys!
-get a clue.
The ONLY WAY TO GO is
either self, or sub-contracted extraordinary rendition of a mid-career POLAR BEAR.
(preferably west side of the Bering Strait local)
THEN:
you cook that honky bastard down and drain off the sweet sweet juice.
(flense him first for greater blubber surface area, if you like.)
Put some of that stuff in your crankcase, chuck on a MANN 47PSI filter, and you’re laughin’.
.
The average grimy petrolhead should be able to get AT LEAST 500,000 MILES on one bear, if done correctly.
:P
Any Advance Auto Parts or Supertech filter should be absolutely fine.
In Utopia, perhaps, but not here in the real world where there are enormous differences in materials and build quality (and, by extension, performance and durability) even amongst name-brand filters, let alone off-brand discount bargain no-name specials.
Any oil sold in a reputable store (Auto Parts Stores, Discount Superstores) should be perfectly fine. Look for the API-SM designation.
I disagree, and here’s why: If a bottle of Pennzoil engine oil says it meets API SM, I believe it, ’cause they’ve got a reputation to maintain. If a bottle of Valu-Plus Super Discount Econo-save engine oil says it meets API SM, what possible incentive do I have to believe it? No name, no reputation, total emphasis on low price…therefore every reason to exaggerate the quality of the oil in the bottle.
One needn’t buy the ridiculously overpriced boutique oils, but even name-brand oils can be had for wallet-friendly prices by shopping around.
Who, if anyone vets this advice?
On how to fix/service/maintain your car/truck
We are batting less then 300..
John Horner is right.
“No intent to hijack this thread, but I would like to see information regarding the optimal time to change air filters.”
As soon as it starts to measurably restrict airflow by an appreciable amount more than the filter did when new. A few cars have had a little pop up airflow restriction indicator in the air box, but that technology doesn’t seem to have caught on. Unfortunately, I don’t know of any easy way to measure air filter pressure drops at home, and I’ve never seen an instrument for doing so in a typical repair shop either.
Personally I just change the air filter twice as often as the mfg. suggests, just to be on the safe side. I’m probably wasting some money by doing so. For our Honda and Acura that means I put in a new filter every 15,000 miles instead of every 30,000. Since I do the work myself, the cost is minimal for me. Also, we live in an area which is dry most of the year, which in turn means the air is full of dust.
Daniel J. Stern : (I’m swinging my right foot back and forth through a 15-degree arc right now, to keep away alligators. There are no alligators in my living room right now, so it must be working, right? Wrong! Correlation does not imply causation.)
But if several people swing their right foot, keeping away alligators, post on the forums of their experiences and find several people with the same alligator problem…you might have something more than a convenient correlation. Which is what I’m alluding to in this Piston Slap.
More to the point, you should probably move out of the Florida swamp. :)
CamaroKid : Who, if anyone vets this advice?
YOU do. This is a daily posting for a Q&A forum, not an editorial with fact checkers.
Oh, and I stand by my “some high mile cars turn into leakers when you switch to synthetic, so I don’t recommend switching back and forth at all” statement.
I have the busted knuckles trying to reach that 4.6L adapter plate in my Mark VIII, and I am certainly not the only person on the forums who went through that, for the exact same reason.
I’m overly pessimistic, perhaps. Or nuts. But you’ve been warned.
I thought that oil filter adapter gasket failed because of thermal stress cycling, and a lousy gasket design. As the metal parts heat and cool, they expand and contraxct more than the fiber or rubber gasket, and they effectively shred the gasket. I am very familiar with the Mark VIII gasket, and it is a poor design. Miserable job to replace, too.
The same thing happens to Caprices and Impala SSes, but not until you pass the 300,000 mile mark. And the job takes about 10 minutes.
Bob
I don’t know of any easy way to measure air filter pressure drops at home, and I’ve never seen an instrument for doing so in a typical repair shop either.
You can buy an air filter restriction gauge, NAPA part number 4800 (direct-mount to air cleaner housing), 4801 (grommet mount to air cleaner housing), 4802 (remote mount), or 4804 (remote mount, different design). They latch at the highest restriction level encountered, and can thus be checked periodically with the engine off. There’s a button to reset the gauge once the filter’s been replaced.
Since we’re veering onto the topic of intake air restriction: the extravagant claims being made for aftermarket “cold air intake” kits are rubbish.
One thing to think about with oils is, synthetic oils have smaller molecules than non-synthetic. This means both good and bad.
Good: the smaller molecules can lubricate in tighter spaces than the bigger ones. This may help in certain engines.
Bad: the smaller molecules will leak through any small gaps in the seals. That’s why people say synthetic oils can cause leaks. They don’t necessarily cause them, but they will leak where the dino oil doesn’t.
bobistheoilguy.com has more info on oils than I could ever remember. Good place to do some research, although you may leave feeling less sure about what to use than when you got there.
I say, if your engine is made to use regular oil and not synthetic only then use whichever you feel. Do not switch to synthetic with an older engine unless you want to see some leaks show up. If you switch from synth back to dino, it should not cause any problems, they are made to be compatible.
Also the only oil additive that is generally recommended is Auto-Rx (it’s an engine cleaner, not a stop leak additive, but it can clean seals and stop leaks caused from dirt in the seals). Stop leak additives apparently swells seals and can eventually cause a bad seal failure.
the only oil additive that is generally recommended is Auto-Rx
Pfft. “Generally recommended” by whom aside from its marketeers? There is almost never a valid reason to add anything to the crankcase aside from properly-selected engine oil.
Thanks to all for this discussion on Oil! When I asked about this, I was thinking of our Winter time here in S. Ontario, especially when the vehicle sits out in the Snow and Cold, I do have a Block Heater but that uses expensive Hydro, but so far I have not used it at all last year and I never had a problem starting up the RAV4, still using Conventional Oil, in my last vehicle which was a 4cy Camry, I did use Synthetic Oil in it, I guess I will stick with Conventional Oil, here its far cheaper then is any Synthetic.
Stephen Lang nailed it. Buy cheap oil and filters. I only add that you should use the factory recommended viscosity oil. I have proved this sufficiently by doing it for a dozen yrs and 200k miles. It doesn’t have to a name brand, I use Walmart Supertech. The main difference between a name brand and Brand X is the advertising budget.
Daniel, here is a link that pretty well covers my perspective on filters.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1077328&fpart=1
As for motor oil… this article is one of the better ones I’ve found on the internet.
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
I take absolutely no equity in buying a brand as it relates to oil or filters. It’s the design and material of the filter along with the oil quality that is important. None of the brands that I see at the auto parts stores (or K-Wal-Tar Superstores) fall into the category you mentioned.
By the way I have the exact attitude when it comes to clothes, computers, shoes, schools, and virtually anything else I can think of. The ‘brand’ is nothing more than a label, a myth, that can be removed. The material components, workmanship and ‘value’ is what really matters. For motor oil and filters those things can be had on the cheap.
I’m familiar with the arguments made by John Horner et. al., but those don’t seem to mesh with real world examples of when there are genuine differences in how they perform, such as sludging problems that can be avoided with the use of synth oil.
As an ex-Saab owner, I agree in principle, but I think that has more to do with the engine than the oil in question. If you own a 1.8L 1ZZ-FE Corolla, then it doesn’t matter if you have a Saab B205, it does.
I don’t know about the VW 1.8T, but the B205 and 235 recommend, if not require, synthetic or they will sludge up. Meanwhile, something like the 1ZZ-FE won’t see that kind of symptom on petroleum oil even at twice the length of the oil intervals of the Saab engine. It’s probably fair to say that if your engine is forced induction, or a known bad design (the Chrysler 2.7L, the Toyota 2.2L and 3.0L, the aforementioned Saab) then synthetic is probably a good idea, but otherwise you’re probably ok with petroleum.
@Daniel J. Stern, all these years I was under the impression that I was driving motor cars and motor boats and riding motor cycles. Thanks for pointing it out to me that these contraptions do not have motors, but engines. From now on I will have to say engine car, engine boat and engine cycle to please the Daniel J. Sterns of this world who try to be pedantic even though they are completely wrong.
Sajeev, I’ve heard ancedotes of engine rebuilders saying that engines that used Mobil 1 synthetic “looked clean” while engines that used Pennzoil conventional oil had more deposits inside the engine. Zero information on if there is a correlation between nice clean new looking parts and lower wear. Any insight into stories of superior internal appearance of engines that used synthetic motor oil?
A decade ago Car & Driver had an article about engine oil where an engine oil chemist described what he would do to make an optimum engine oil for a rarely driven pre-catalytic converter antique car. The oil expert said that corrosion would be the largest problem and he’d probably use oil designed for diesel engines in an old car if the climate was warm enough to allow use of the higher 15W40 viscosity. He argued that moisture and corrosion would be a larger problem than wear at cold start for this case. Any thoughts on using diesel engine oil in old cars?
“I’m familiar with the arguments made by John Horner et. al., but those don’t seem to mesh with real world examples of when there are genuine differences in how they perform, such as sludging problems that can be avoided with the use of synth oil.”
Just for the record, I said that you can switch between brands and types (conventional/synthetic) and that engines don’t learn to like an oil. I didn’t say that all oils are equally good, because they aren’t.
As to the whole “engine vs. motor” naming debate: I will continue to use the terms interchangeably with respect to automobiles until Honda changes its name to Honda Engine Company, Ford becomes the Ford Engine Company and GM becomes GE.
can anyone please tell me why fram filters are being trashed on this forum. i’ve been using fram’s for years and have yet to have an issue, with some of my rides going well over 100-150k miles
>can anyone please tell me why fram filters are being trashed on this forum
I don’t claim any particular expertise or factual knowledge, so take what follows for what it’s worth. Others may be able to confirm or refute.
My understanding is that Fram used to have a great reputation but, as has occurred with so many American companies, the MBA beancounters took over and started imposing cuts in cost (and therefore quality), presumable on the assumption that most consumers would never know the difference and that they could coast on the previously built good reputation.
Whether or not this is true of Fram in particular, it’s a shame that American “Masters of Business Administration” haven’t taken American manufacturing in general from a reputation for making the world’s best products (say from 1950-1970) into a general / national reputation for making inferior products.
That folks (rightly!) feel more confident in purchasing a South Korean Hyundai over a GM or Chrysler vehicle demonstrates just how damnable are “MBA’s” and “CFO’s” – they maximize profit short term, but destroy or nearly destroy the company long term. And in America we award advanced degrees for this????
As to the whole “engine vs. motor” naming debate: I will continue to use the terms interchangeably with respect to automobiles until Honda changes its name to Honda Engine Company, Ford becomes the Ford Engine Company and GM becomes GE.
Engines and motors are both energy converters. Engines convert (chemical energy into) heat energy into kinetic energy, and motors convert electrical energy into kinetic energy.
It’s certainly your choice to keep making your error, and you certainly won’t be alone, but it makes you look poorly educated. Spend a few minutes with a reliable dictionary or two. Y’see, the word motor and its derivatives have more than one meaning. It’s not just a noun, but also an intransitive verb meaning to drive or travel by automobile or to move or proceed at a vigourous steady pace. It’s also a transitive verb meaning to transport by automobile.
The noun also refers to entire (motor)cars. Honda motor, Toyota Motor, Ford Motor, General Motors, American Motors, et al are so named because they build whole (motor)cars, not because they build engines.
“Motor” also refers to the auto industry in general, especially outside the U.S. What Americans call “auto shows”, most of the rest of the English-speaking world calls “motor shows”. What Americans call “the auto industry” is known elsewhere as “the motor trade” or “the motor industry”. Detroit is called “The Motor City” because (motor)cars used to come from there, not because they used to build engines there.
And don’t forget, drivers are also called motorists. Because they’re driving (motor)cars, not in reference to the engines that power those cars.
Things get slightly complicated when we consider boats with outboard or inboard motors, but not so complicated as to stymie anyone with brains; the term in this context refers to the entire propulsion unit, from the spark plug clear on down to the propeller (or at least its driveshaft). The part that most of us would identify as the “engine” is called, at least on an outboard, the powerhead. I’m not a boater, but in googling around for usage, it seems that when we remove the two primary parts of the inboard motor you have an engine and a transmission. Put ’em back together again and you have an inboard motor again.
(Venator: I’m only pedantic when I’m right.)
usage comes first and dictionaries always follow.
Surely, and “nucular” is a correct pronunciation of n-u-c-l-e-a-r ’cause people say it, right? The two of us are unlikely to resolve the descriptivist vs. prescriptivist debate in this forum; bigger eggheads than either of us have been squabbling over that one for many years. We can avoid it by seeing how the terms “engine” and “motor” are used by engineers. Then the debate ends (I win, but you’re still free to speak sloppily.)
Motor is a more general classification of which engine is a subset. So an engine is a motor, but a motor isn’t necessarily an engine as it can be an electric motor or other types of motors. So calling the engine in your car a motor is still correct in general terms.
And many of the oil companies sell and label their oils as motor oil … (not motor vehicle oil) …
Valvoline … For over 140 years, Valvoline has produced the best quality motor oils – longer than any other oil marketer – and has served the needs of car owners. Valvoline carefully formulates and offers a full line of motor oils to meet the specific needs of different engine types and driving conditions and to provide maximum performance and prolonged engine life.
The cheapest off-brand oil is very likely to bear an unwarranted statement of API service grade…
Says who?
….in the real world where there are enormous differences in materials and build quality (and, by extension, performance and durability) even amongst name-brand filters, let alone off-brand discount bargain no-name specials.
A few yeas back, the AC/Delco PF-25 and equivalent Wal Mart Super Tech filter had no apparent outside difference: same construction, same spot welds, same inner appearance (from what I was able to see without cutting it open). Fram and other brands did look different.
If a bottle of Pennzoil engine oil says it meets API SM, I believe it, ’cause they’ve got a reputation to maintain. If a bottle of Valu-Plus Super Discount Econo-save engine oil says it meets API SM, what possible incentive do I have to believe it? No name, no reputation, total emphasis on low price…therefore every reason to exaggerate the quality of the oil in the bottle.
So Wal Mart or AutoZone have no reputation to maintain? Their house brands are ephemeral?
Sounds like that silly reasoning to buy brand ____ gas. Load of crap; brands are meaningless as the manufacturers source from who knows where, and brand X gas commonly goes to brand Y pumps.
SUMMARY: If we’re going to dismiss automotive superstitions, why stop halfway? There is not a shred of evidence that fancy-pants boutique oils and filters are special.
I have had my cheap skate bias reinforced by hanging out on BITOG for 5 yrs. Links to VOAs and UOAs and folk who dissected oil filters and posted their findings. The STP oil filter that s Auto Zone’s current house brand is made by Champion. It has 2x the filtering media than the equivalent Fram. It is generally of better construction than a Fram. Champions marketed lines include Bosch an Mobil-1.
What oil filters do is prolly secondary to what they should not do. They should have a good check (anti- drainback) valve, so the oil pump doesnt lose its prime on cold start up. Also the case of the filter should be heavy enough to maintain integrety and not rupture under normal operating conditions. Frams are known for both of these failure modes.
I dont know about you guys but I rather listen to Sajeev and stay on the same course instead of jumping around. If its dino oil when I bought the car, then its gonna be dino oil until the car falls apart. Lots of mechanics also warned me not to change the oil types as it might ruin the delicate balance of the engine.
Since new engines are built to last waaay loonger, i think a dino oil is enough for them.
Synthetic seems like a clever marketing trick to me…I dont see any value in that other than if youre a F1 driver and your name starts with S..
At 330,000 km I switched my old ’87 Mazda pickup from 6 month changes with dino oil to yearly changes with synthetic.
Nine years later I’m now at 420,000 km. No problems.
Should note that here in Canada, where it gets -40 at times, the easier winter starting benefit is noticeable only if I use 0w synthetics, which seem to be (whatever the brand) all PAO base stock.
“No intent to hijack this thread, but I would like to see information regarding the optimal time to change air filters.”
As soon as it starts to measurably restrict airflow by an appreciable amount more than the filter did when new. A few cars have had a little pop up airflow restriction indicator in the air box, but that technology doesn’t seem to have caught on.…
And who used that airflow restriction monitor? Must be Toyota..No, well it must be Japanese…no? You mean penny pinching GM? Yep. Under the hood, GM really did do a good job with stuff like this. On their truck lines they had this monitor and a cool little light with a wind up cord in case you needed to see some remote spot under the hood. They really did try so much harder on their trucks/suvs…
Oil filters: Fram was always my filter of choice. I guess I was one of those who did not know they were beancounted to death in that great American tradition. However, all my cars and my family’s vehicles were run with Fram for at least 150K, often well over 200K with no oil related issues. So, is Fram still a crappy filter? Or has perception caught up to reality (there are those pesky words again)…????
DanielStern: I’m with you big time. Sometimes people say stuff incorrectly and that just irks me to death. While I don’t wig out on the motor/engine thing, “Beemer” kills me, as does “Canadian Goose”…gosh, are they residents of Canada? Or Bombardier being pronounced Bombadeer…ugh…I chuckle when I hear strangers say stuff like this, but when family insists on saying Beemer because their friend who has a 3 Series says it that way…
Should note that here in Canada, where it gets -40 at times, the easier winter starting benefit is noticeable only if I use 0w synthetics, which seem to be (whatever the brand) all PAO base stock.
If you’re hitting -40, seriously consider a block heater. It’ll do more for your engine’s health and well-being than synthetics will.
On the other hand, maybe you’re already using a block heater and the winter-weight oil is for those horrible times when you lose power. Which, from the time I spent in hamlets outside of Thunder Bay or Timmins, was way, way too often.
YOU do. This is a daily posting for a Q&A forum, not an editorial with fact checkers.
You can’t be Serious! but that does explain a lot… The time you told the Ford Truck guy who’s truck wouldn’t turn over to check his battery cables…had me put one eyebrow up… Anyone who has owned a Ford anything knows of the starter solenoid problem that plagues most ford products made up till around the mid 90’s.
If you put yourself out there as a guru offering “how to fix it” advice you should be at least a Certified Mechanic (ASE, Dealer trained, or otherwise).
This site is called “Truth about Cars” …
Not “I’ll just guess at an answer and then let other members correct it later” I guess that makes for a URL that is way to long, you guys love to truncate everything into acronyms…
How about http://www.IJGAAAATLOMCIL.com LOL!
I find Piston Slap posts to be a great starter for interesting discussions regarding various automotive issues that aren’t covered elsewhere on this site….and I’m sure the majority of TTACers agree on this.
The time you told the Ford Truck guy who’s truck wouldn’t turn over to check his battery cables…
So CamaroKid, are you finding fault with his suggestion that the battery cables on an old truck could be suspect? Seriously? That’s your beef?
Of course there are multiple possibilities for a no start condition, but since you are trying so hard to critique this column, I suggest you try harder.
I agree that discussion is great… And the Ford truck one, was, as I said, the first time I thought, “Wow! how could he miss something that simple, that mechanic needs to take a few more courses…” Of course the third or four guy told the person posing the question what to fix…
But, since then, he has basically proven to me, and yes, unlike P-Slap I have my ASE certification, that he is just throwing stuff out there to start a discussion…
If that’s what you hope for, great, but if you are looking for expert advice, you are barking up the wrong tree.
Lets be honest here it is next to impossible to diagnose a car without ever seeing it, and being an expert on every make and model ever made is even harder.
So what is my beef? It is simply that someone might actually think they are going to get expert advice. With a name like “TTAC”, if you have someone billing themselves as the “self help car guy” you would hope that he has even the most basic qualifications. I kinda take the “Truth” part seriously.
So this month we have the BS answer that we can’t switch between synthetic oil and old school stuff because it will upset the “delicate balance that the synthetic oil worked hard to create.” WOW! Now both eyebrows are up.
CamaroKid : But, since then, he has basically proven to me, and yes, unlike P-Slap I have my ASE certification, that he is just throwing stuff out there to start a discussion…
I hope you contribute to Piston Slap more often, as you figured out my little scam: I am just “throwing stuff out there to start a discussion” in a typical blog format.
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If that’s what you hope for, great, but if you are looking for expert advice, you are barking up the wrong tree.
I thought an ASE tech would understand that expert advice doesn’t come for free. I didn’t think such an obvious disclaimer was needed for this series.
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Lets be honest here it is next to impossible to diagnose a car without ever seeing it, and being an expert on every make and model ever made is even harder. With a name like “TTAC”, if you have someone billing themselves as the “self help car guy” you would hope that he has even the most basic qualifications. I kinda take the “Truth” part seriously.
Let’s get a few things straight:
1. I never said I was a self help car guy, you are assuming that. I have ALWAYS framed Piston Slap as a collaborative effort between the question, my answer and the B&B’s comments. Maybe you missed it, but I frequently reference the B&B’s forthcoming answers in this daily column.
2. I cannot tell you how many ASE techs I’ve met that wouldn’t know “truth” from a hole in the ground. I am pretty sure you are not one of them, but do you think all ASE techs are honest and don’t ever screw people over because they think they can?
3. Sometimes I think the ASE badge means much less than the brain inside that ASE tech. I’m sorry if that comes out offensive, but I’ve had maybe 50/50 luck when trying to figure out if an ASE tech is worth my money.
4. In the end, all car experts are wrong at times. Some are malicious and greedy, some are making honest mistakes while trying to make a buck, others just write stuff on the Internet to point people in the right direction.
relton : I thought that oil filter adapter gasket failed because of thermal stress cycling, and a lousy gasket design. As the metal parts heat and cool, they expand and contract more than the fiber or rubber gasket, and they effectively shred the gasket. I am very familiar with the Mark VIII gasket, and it is a poor design. Miserable job to replace, too.
Yup, I couldn’t reach the bolts in my garage, so I took it to a shop with a lift. Perhaps mine was ready to fail no matter what, but the timing (right after changing to M1) and other people’s comments kinda says otherwise.