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More fodder for the “Chrysler adjusts to life as a Marchionnian pawn” file, as Reuters reports that the Chrysler C-platform may be headed to China. Yes, anyone who’s ever driven a Caliber, Compass or Patriot will have a joke at the ready, as ChryCo’s compact threesome already ooze that “straight outta Tianjin” flava. Maybe Fiat figures that if GM can sell Buicks there by the boatload, a Compass might come across as mildly aspirational. On the other hand, this was already tried with the PT Cruiser. Back then, Chrysler couldn’t find anyone in a nation of a billion people who wanted to produce bulbous, tacky, out-of-date hatchbacks. It’s hard to see why Fiat thinks this go-round will be any different.
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I’ve lived in Shanghai, Beijing and Hang zhou on business.
From what I’ve seen and from what I’ve experiences, the best cars Chrysler has to sell in China are compacts like the PT Cruiser, and the CUV-like Caliber/ Avenger. Even the Pacifica might do well there, but, the key is MARKETING.
Chinese people who are older hate the Japanese…it is preached to them by the communist media on a daily basis and if you sit with Chinese citizens and have conversations – NANJING MASSACRE will come up. Many Chinese hate buying Japanese products and they perfer the American counterpart. That’s why Buick is doing so well there. But, imports are expensive and many Chinese “middle classers” are living on less than $20,000 a year (even with high level education)
Chrysler can sell them small vehicles if they market well and provide adequate maintenance plans and shops over there. But Chrysler has to do their best to improve their interiors. This thing up top is plastic fantastic.
Just because you don’t like Chryslers here in America, doesn’t mean they won’t do well in China. There its entirely different.
They need small cars because parking is a NIGHTMARE. The streets are crowded with bikes and motorcycles and parking spots aren’t part of the apartment building/ university or mall infrastructure. For example “Bai Hou Dai Lou” at the end of Nan Jing Road in Shanghai is a huge 15 floor mall with NO PARKING AT ALL. Nan Jing Road… a huge shopping district has NO PARKING AT ALL. Its a completely different life over there. That’s why I say compacts will do good from Chrysler.
In fact, I was looking at a Caliber this morning. Its not a terrible car and because of its size it is a value to people living in conditions like this.
Having spent time in Mainland myself, I agree with Flashpoint. The interesting thing is that the Chinese love American history, unlike most Americans who couldn’t name 5 states on a map. They know that Buick was the catalyst for the start of GM. There is some kind of odd connection with that I don’t get.
CyCarConsulting :
“They know that Buick was the catalyst for the start of GM. There is some kind of odd connection with that I don’t get.”
The last Emperor apparently rode in a Buick.
–chuck
I thought that Chinese preference was for sedan body styles and that they generally shun hatchbacks. If true, it would totally be like Chrysler to bring a hatchback to market in China.
Caliber and Compass? Ugly, ugly, ugly. Patriot? Not so bad. And for the price point, the Patriot is not a bad buy.
I personally don’t expect anything but plastic-fantastic when I spend $15,000 for a car. I mean, c’mon, let’s be realistic. Four of my Xerox service techs are using Patriots (Xerox leases Dodge products in Western Canada) and out of the ten techs, the Patriot is by far the favourite choice. It’s small, roomy and as an added bonus is equipped with four-wheel drive, which in the Western Canadian winters is a good option to have. The Caravans are a meh, and the Journey is not well liked, so all of the techs are leaning towards the Patriot as the next lease of choice.
It might not do too bad in other parts of the world where utility and low-price are overiding factors in purchasing vehicles.
Chrysler just has to learn to market these things, which they sure as shit don’t do in Canada.
Interior by rubbermaid.
Fiat could do worse than trying to unload small Chrysler products in China. In fact, the advantage wouldn’t be so much in selling Chryslers as using whatever dealer network they set-up to sell cheap, citicar-sized Fiats. That’s likely where they’d make their money.
They give us lead paint, we give them the Caliber.
I’d call that even.
@KGrGunMan:
They give us melamine, we give them melamine. I’d call that even more even.
The Caliber has a redesigned interior and drivetrain improvements coming for MY 2010, so I imagine that if the improvements are any good, the caliber has a fighting chance in China.
Although I’ve never owned a Jeep, I really like the Compass for its roominess and good value for a 4×4. It’s the first Jeep I’d consider.
As for the Chinese/American affection, I believe they still remember how we helped each other put hate on the Japanese in WWII. They lost up to 20 million people in that war (ten times the fraction of the population that America lost), which makes for a very long memory.
Chuck wrote:
The last Emperor apparently rode in a Buick.
Interesting … and possibly illuminating. In an unusual way, it rather validates the road taken back in ’49–witness the offspring of peasants now driving what were once the toys of royalty.
A Jeep should be able to off-road and have a spartan interior for the purpose of being durable. A Compass is a faux Jeep that can’t be taken off road and has a spartan interior because it’s attempting to compete with Kia. It’s a sad chapter in Jeep history.
Flashpoint
The Rape of NANJING.
I am very proud to see you know of this dark blot on the history of the world.
One of the best books I have ever read.
It should be a must read in our high schools…instead of Janice Has 2 Mommies, or whatever.
And others above are so correct in stating the Chinese love American history. They love our entire culture, as do the Japanese.
Whenever I visit, its difficult to take an urban picture without the damn Colonel Sanders in the background!!!
Chuck Goolsbee
You are soooo right.
The Buicks!
So I give up trying to guess the Chinese culture.
One last impression.
The bicycles!
I have never seen a bicycle traffic jam like there are in China.
I mean it’s almost dreamlike seeing the packs at red lights or the dedicated bicycle parking lots!
How the hell do they find their own bike in the massive confusion!?
Even though the interior is abominable, I nearly bought a Patriot when it came out. It’s a cheap, spacious 4WD that isn’t horrible on gas. And lets face it, its getting very hard to find something like that offered with a stick shift anymore.
Soft-road’er or not, I think it would be a seriously attractive vehicle if they were able to clean it up a bit and use some interior panels that didn’t feel like recycled egg shells. But I mean, what do you expect for that price anyway?
While these cars are not competitive here, they might do OK against Chery motors and others.
To anyone that bought a new Caliber/Compass/Patriot, I have to tell you that these cars are not worth it. If $15k is really your price ceiling, then buy a used car instead. To me, it is inexcusable what Chrysler did to those interiors. I see no effort in design or execution. I certainly don’t want to reward them by giving them my money. (I should have said any more money since they took my tax dollars already).
Let’s get this straight. Chrysler and Jeep (an American icon), once all American, successful, capitalist corporations owned by stockholders (i.e. the public) are now (brutal honesty follows)
a. Fascist enterprises (i.e. an anti-christ combination of government and business)
b. Part owned by the UAW (socialists who demand so called free individuals vote “a certain way”)
c. Part owned and now controlled by a company which hails from a nation which is (in)famous for the mafia (as well as unreliable, if sometimes interesting and if high-end, good looking cars)
And are now going to be manufactured and sold in a supposedly communist nation which is actually more capitalistic than America, which is to say China.
I’m pretty certain that we could make free electricity by digging Walter Chrysler’s grave and putting some magnets on, and around, his body.
He’s probably spinning in it at high rpm right now.
Here is the official version from wsn:
The anti-Japan propaganda is just a tool used by the Chinese government. Every state needs an enemy. China has Japan. The US had Afghanistan/Iraq/Muslims in general (it seems Obama tries to get past that, for the time being it’s the greedy capitalist).
But from what I have seen, most Chinese aren’t influenced too much in their choice of merchandise. Those who are brainwashed the most are the ones with the least spending power.
The success of GM is not due to the Chinese hate of Japan, but (dare I say) brilliant management and marketing. They chose the right location, manufactured the right cars and build the right image. This is a living proof that the UAW is at the core of GM NA’s problems.
Chrysler, on the other hand, don’t stand much of a chance now. There is just so much love for American brands and that is mostly directed to GM already. People who cannot afford a GM probably would buy a VW. Those who cannot afford a VW would buy a domestic Geely or something.
P.S. Fiat already has a joint venture in China. The cars are much cheaper than Buicks and the operation is not very successful.
You know what I’ve noticed? On every blog post that has anything to do with China at all, someone always bring up lead paint, toys, Walmart, etc, etc, that has no relevance to the discussion at hand.
And I’m quite sick of it because:
1. It’s repetitive as hell, with no value added info. Hardly what I expect to see from the BNB.
2. It’s based on what the mass media fed to the general public, if you do a little digging, you’ll find that greedy American corporations are the drivers behind Mattel’s lead paint, and Walmart’s buying practices result in the cheap crap they buy from China. Again, reading this repeatedly from the BNB, a group that prides itself on not eating the mass media info puke, is disheartening.
3. I have a feeling not very many of those that dis China have been to China (not all though), and even fewer realize or can even believe how fast and how much China has changed. If you look at the infrastructure, the cars, industries, the technology, the economy…they’ve made 75 years progress in the last 20 years.
Instead of seeking comfort in bashing China, we need to look in our rear view mirror, and put the pedal to the metal. Because they are coming up whether we’d like them to or not. I can assure you that as much as we have to complain about today, you will have even more to complain about in a world in which China is America’s equal economically and militarily. And complaining isn’t going to do any more good then as it is now.
wsn:
What you said about GM and China is very true. I remember watching a special on TV about GM and China, and they interviewed one customer who just bought a GM car. He said that he trusts GM more than the Chinese domestics because of how big they are, and the fact that they have been around for almost 100 years, so they have lots of experience in the car building business.
When I heard this, I imagined that Ford and Mercedes-Benz could cash in huge there with just the right marketing. MB could talk about the fact that they invented the car, and Ford just has to populate its marketing with Crazy Henry and the Model T.
Runfromcheney :
August 27th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
When I heard this, I imagined that Ford and Mercedes-Benz could cash in huge there with just the right marketing. MB could talk about the fact that they invented the car, and Ford just has to populate its marketing with Crazy Henry and the Model T.
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MB is indeed VERY respected in China, (same as Buick) due to 1930’s movies depicting the lifestyles of foreign capitalists.
However, the Chinese have already had the first taste of the poor reliability of German cars. A very publicized story was that one millionaire smashed his own S-class because it kept breaking down on him. Another story involves someone pulling his 7-series to the repair shop by a donkey.
If the Germans don’t learn their lesson and continue to be arrogant, they soon find out that the Chinese aren’t as stupid as they once thought.
I was in Beijing for a week a few months ahead of the summer olympics. It was mind boggling how many Buicks and Audis roamed the roads of that city. CDM vehicles were in the distinct minority, except for the trucks. Based on visual inspection, Audi seemed to be the dominant brand in Beijing.
keepaustinweird :
August 27th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
I was in Beijing for a week a few months ahead of the summer olympics. It was mind boggling how many Buicks and Audis roamed the roads of that city. CDM vehicles were in the distinct minority, except for the trucks. Based on visual inspection, Audi seemed to be the dominant brand in Beijing.
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In China, government officials have designated budgets to buy cars. The kind of car you get is proportional to your level. A federal level Party representative, for example, are entitle to have 2 Audi A6 (JV,not imported). City level official typically buy Accord or Buick something, depending on what local JV they have got.
Chairman Hu uses a BMW 7-series himself. I am not sure what other car he uses, but I saw a clip of him riding it for celebrating the return of HongKong to China for 10 years.
DETROIT/SHANGHAI (Reuters) – Just two months out of bankruptcy, Chrysler Group has renewed the hunt for a manufacturing partner in China as it prepares to revamp its product lineup under the control of Italy’s Fiat SpA (FIA.MI), three people with knowledge of the discussions said.
If I interpret this story correctly, it is a “revamp” of a product lineup that is FIAT/Chrysler’s real goal. Sure, they gotta sell what they have now. But that’s not the way it’s gonna stay.
“Interior by rubbermaid.”
“The Caliber has a redesigned interior and drivetrain improvements coming for MY 2010”
Yes it will. The renderings I’ve seen look pretty good. The Patriot and Compass have already had their interiors redone. They look wayyyy better than the pic of the Caliber above.
highrpm:
“To me, it is inexcusable what Chrysler Daimler did to those interiors.”
There, fixed it for ya.
menno:
“c. Part owned and now controlled by a company which hails from a nation which is (in)famous for the mafia (as well as unreliable, if sometimes interesting and if high-end, good looking cars)”
Saying this is like saying the United States still practices slavery or that every American lives on a ranch and rides a horse. Stereotypes. Look it up. And despite stories about FIAT’s reputation in the UK where it has a miniscule market share (how come no stories about FIAT in Italy?) the cars they make today are more realiable than VW could ever hope to be.