To boil it down to a single word, Sebring. GAZ’s main mass-market model is the Volga Siber, a Russian-market adaptation of the previous generation Chrysler Sebring/Dodge Stratus. As Der Spiegel points out, that’s not enough to go to war with even in the Russian market, and GAZ’s bosses want Opel to bring modernity to their products. GM is terrified about the prospect of having to compete against Opel in Russia, reports the AP. But those fears could be overblown. “Even if GM completely stops doing any research and doing any product development, maybe [GAZ is] going to catch up with them in five or ten years at the earliest,” says Serguei Netessine of the Wharton Business School. Just in case though, GM is investing in its Daewoo-based European Chevy lineup, according to Bloomberg. Meanwhile, the search for an Opel buyer has cost over $1 billion so far. And it’s only just starting to get properly nasty.
Front end of Siber(ing) looks better then Sebring that it’s based on, IMHO.
Five to ten years to catch up with GM?
First of all, Lada never cut up with FIAT.
And second will GM be alive in the 5-10 years?
It’s pretty bad when you’re an auto company and the last-generation Sebring is considered more sophisticated and reliable than whatever you’re building.
And second will GM be alive in the 5-10 years?
You know when you look at the government provided DIP for GM, it didn’t allow them to do all of the things that would be normally done in BR proceedings (I believe that they were only going to give GM so much of an advantage over Ford, namely GM is still paying retirement benefits for a company that controlled 55% of the market, with only 18% currently(probably 15% when in a year (they cannot continue to drive sales with discounts as they no longer have GMAC to cover on the finance side)), those expenses have to be crippling (Ford is doing it with a 25%/16% (probably up to 20%) which is manageable. So what did the governments DIP really accomplish (if GM still can’t turn it around)?
It put them in a position where they could get private DIP financing if required, the courts (when it comes down to) don’t care about jobs and what not, they care about doing what is necessary to allow a company to become operational again. If that means closing all US production and moving it overseas thats ok (its been done before, i.e. the textile industry).
There’s always more involved to something if you look long enough. The government would get paid back alot quicker if GM became wildly profitable (just look at the taxes exxon and such pay), then they ever would waiting for thier investment to mature.
So thats my theory, the government gave GM just enough to allow them access to private market DIP financing at a later date.
Wasn’t the last-generation Sebring superior to the current one?
I’m going to be that guy…..
The Intrepid was an LH platform car.
The Sebring’s twin was the Stratus.
Roundel :
You beat me to it! It was definately a Stratus and not the Intrepid. The were two completely different cars.
I was just about to point that out, it was the Sebring/Stratus, Concorde/Intrepid.
I think the last generation Sebring, at least at the outset in MY 2001, was competitive with its peers. Not so much the case with the current generation…
Although Zhiguli/Lada 2106 never “caught up”, VAZ later produced an iconic 2121 model, which is still in demand (actually IIRC it was profiled at TTAC a year ago or so). Funnily enough, my father is driving a 2104. He says he wants the utility of the wagon. What can you say? It’s another world.
Zaitcev:
Isn’t VAZ ( autovaz) a totally different company from GAZ.
GAZ is a heavy duty truck type mfr. with just one car. Vaz has many autos.
MLS:
“I think the last generation Sebring, at least at the outset in MY 2001, was competitive with its peers.”
Absolutely correct. The 2001 was competitive. The 1995 1st gen was superior to most of it’s peers. And of course the current one is an also ran. Thank you Dumbler!
Ed, you need to bone up on your Chrysler platform knowledge. How come it has not been corrected in the posting?
I guess ill join the bandwagon for backing up the older sebring/stratus. They were really competative cars in there class. I feel the first gen stratus were up to par with the camcords, its just the dodge logo that prevented them from becoming more popular
Sorry about the Stratus/Intrepid thing. I fixed it within minutes of posting, but apparently it didn’t take.
Also, on the competitiveness (or lack thereof) of the Siber(ing) via Der Spiegel:
“GAZ and Magna have adapted the Sebring — making the car rounder and higher, because of potholes on Russian streets. They’ve also outfitted it with better rust protection. Only one problem remains: nobody wants to buy it. Production started in July 2008 and now car number 2,439 is rolling off the assembly line. The factory, though, is actually capable of churning out 150,000 cars a year — 60 times what they have achieved thus far.”
Perception gap?
carguy65,
you’re correct regarding GAZ and VAZ. What zaitcev and I was referring to is that VAZ was based on FIAT platform (VAZ bought a license to FIAT 124) but never caught up to FIAT in over 30 years.
Absolutely correct. The 2001 was competitive. The 1995 1st gen was superior to most of it’s peers. And of course the current one is an also ran. Thank you Dumbler!
I don’t understand where all this nostalgia for Chrysler’s nineties/noughties products keeps coming from. “Competitive”? Maybe with whatever Hyundai and Mitsubishi were producing in the class at that point. The Chrysler JA platfrom cars were reliability dogs that lagged the class in refinement, fuel economy, rear seat room, etc…
Edward Niedermeyer :
What the people were saying is that the last gen Sebring was competitive back in the early part of the decade, say 2001-2004. Of course it is nowhere near competitive now, it is hopelessly dated.
And I will jump on the bandwagon. The first-gen Stratus was a sport, innovative car that was at the top of its class. Unfortunately, it fell victim to Eaton’s beancounting and had bad reliability. The second gen was competitive in its first years, but fell victim over the years to Daimler’s shitty support and marketing. The fact that the high end models in the first two years had the sludgebox 2.7 engines didn’t help matters, either.
“The Chrysler JA platfrom cars were reliability dogs that lagged the class in refinement, fuel economy, rear seat room, etc…”
Mmm… I beg to differ. The 1st gen (1995-2000) was MT’s Car of the Year and made CD’s top ten list. They beat out the way more expensive to develop Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique in comparisons. The only thing mine had wrong with it was some weather stripping that came lose on the rear driver side door. The 2.7 sludge problem was primarily with LH sedans. I think it had something to do with the engine being a North/South configuration. The first gen JA’s had the 2.5 V6 from Mitsubishi. At any rate by the time of the 2nd gen the 2.7 used in the 2nd gen JA’s (which sat East/West in the engine bay) were not sludging.
The only reason I sold my 1st gen was because I moved to Florida and I didn’t want to own two cars anymore, and my other car was a convertible. But I gave it good home to a guy who worked for Freightliner (part of Daimler) and he happened to own, as a project car, a FIAT X1/9! Weird huh?
From the Bloomberg article linked above:
“The Chevrolet brand has grown a lot in the past three to four years in Europe, helped by GM Daewoo,” Michael Grimaldi, the unit’s chief executive officer, said in an interview yesterday in Busan, South Korea. With the new models set to be added, Chevrolet will be GM’s “core brand,” he said.”
Whoever decided that GM could compete in Europe with Korea sourced cars should be on VWs Christmas list. Probably Ford, Renault, Peugeot and Fiat should chip in something too.