Dodge doesn’t compete in NASCAR to test new technology. Nor does NASCAR highlight fundamental attributes of Dodge vehicles the way, say, Subaru’s rally competition does. So why stick around when resources are so tight? “NASCAR fans love performance and Dodge fans love to win,” explains Michael Accavitti, Director of Dodge Brand and SRT Marketing at Chrysler Blog. “It’s always been a match made in heaven and we intend to remain involved in the NASCAR sport for the foreseeable future.”
We currently have seven teams representing Dodge, which we truly believe is the right level this year. In the past, we’ve sponsored as many as 12 cars at one time. Our experience showed that we spread our resources a little bit too thin. We’ve never been a big organization; we’ve always prided ourselves on being more nimble and smaller than the other guys to succeed. We’ll strike that appropriate balance where we can have a good Sunday afternoon for our Dodge fans. That’s what it’s really all about. So we’ve refocused our resources on fewer teams to produce better results, and I think that’s what you’re seeing on the track this year.
Refocused? So why are Dodge-backed teams still waiting on ChryCo for money? And yet, despite the “procedural issues,” even the new Italian bosses are behind the effort.
It’s worth noting that Fiat has already proven to be a valuable partner. From a corporate and engineering standpoint, Fiat is quickly offering us new technologies for production vehicles, and that technology sharing can carry over to motorsports. Anything that we could use, and that NASCAR would allow us to use in this sport, is something that we would certainly want to look at.
But in this statement lies the essence of why NASCAR simply isn’t worth the effort. Specifically, the “anything NASCAR would allow us to use” part. New fuel injection technology? Forget it. Traction control? Ha! Hybrid powertrains? What is this, Formula 1? If Dodge is going to enter the 21st Century, technology has to be fundamental to its performance image.
In this sense, NASCAR is a historical deadweight anchoring Dodge to the past. Which would be bad enough on the brand level alone, but this atavistic approach is more than just evident in Dodge’s products: it defines them. Challenger sales have already started to drop off as the novelty of its retro looks falls victim to its utter lack of value as a sports car. Yet, as long as NASCAR remains Dodge’s sole motorsport focus, there’s little chance of developments filtering their way into retail products. Creating sporting vehicles which attract sustained interest and enthusiasm requires more than NASCAR’s time-warp retro racing as a draw. It might not make sense for Dodge to withdraw from NASCAR completely, but the time has come to think about making a right-hand turn.
I can think of only one reason to stay in NASCAR. NASCAR fans buy a lot of trucks, and I think that there may still be a little racing luster that rubs off on the big Rams. When a Dodge wins at NASCAR, I suspect that some Ram owners stand a little taller, feeling better about the racing heritage of their hemis.
That said, I agree that there is not much in the way of racing development that pays off at the showroom. I was a fairly big NASCAR fan as a kid, when Richard Petty’s hemi powered Plymouth wasn’t that different from the one I kept trying to get my Mom to buy (without success, I should add.) In those days, the teams raced what Detroit built (with some modifications for safety) and there was a steady supply of racing (or “export”) parts available over your dealer’s parts counter. Most drivers’ chances were only as good as what they were being given to race with.
But there is not much of that left today. I don’t really follow NASCAR, but I would guess that there is no single part on the car that is on a production vehicle.
NASCAR has been a evolutionary dead end for car development for quite some time now. Contrast this to how WRC or F1 teams use all sorts of tech.
Now if they would actually go back to their STOCK car roots and race cars taken from the showroom with the only modifications for safety it could make for good entertainment.
That being said as long as a big chunk of Chyrslers customer base are NASCAR fans it could be worth it to stay in the game from a marketing sense.
I always thought that the Challenger was a retro gimmick, but in as much as its another flavor of the 300/Charger platform it works.
Now if they would just put a Federalized 2.8 VM diesel in it….
All due respect, this is a silly argument. Like it or not, Dodge is a mass-market seller, not a niche brand that relies on the “racing improves the breed” strategy to help move the iron. And as racing leagues go, NASCAR is the ultimate mass-market brand in this country.
The only mass-market, non-luxury brand I can think of that relies on its high-tech, non-NASCAR racing program to develop street cars is Subaru, and even without the Ram pickup, Dodge has sold twice as many cars this year as Subaru.
Otherwise, what are you looking at vis a vis car makers with a strong racing-street technology connection? Mainly, it’s boutique makers like Ferrari and Porsche, and individual nameplates like the Corvette Z06. I’m sure Dodge doesn’t want to sell in THOSE numbers.
I disagree with Mr. Niedermeyer here.
Like jpcavanaugh brought up, Dodge’s NASCAR association sells some Rams. Development costs are low, exposure in the US is high, and it is easy to be competitive. It is *likely* a good marketing strategy even though nothing really trickles down to the road cars.
GM’s “Tell Fritz” site had a similar “Why are you still in NASCAR?” question and his response was basically: “It is a good marketing boost that sells trucks and Camaros”
There is also the HEMI/NASCAR association so I’m guessing the involvement helps the branding of the V8s engines.
If Dodge needs to push 21st century Euro hyper-technology moving forward, they can create a marketing campaign that plays up their association with the Fiat group and leech off the Italian’s innovations.
I don’t see how joining a racing series that no one follows in the US would help Dodge sell cars any more than being involved in NASCAR. Notice the legions of brands that are busy pulling out (or talking about pulling out) of WRC and F1 right now. If racing in those series was vital to the development of new technology, I doubt they would be doing that.
You wrote about Challenger sales having a drop off, but how many race-bred EVOs did Mitsubishi sell this year?
Do more Americans buy an A4 because it has a race-tested quattro AWD system and TFSI engine technology like the R8 LeMans car, or because it has a nice interior and works in the snow?
Finally, NASCAR is not Dodge’s only motorsports effort. They have involvement in the NHRA and the Viper is used in a lot of road racing series. There have been a few Dodge Charger and Viper drift cars as well.
I think the issue is not what Dodge stands to gain by staying in NASCAR but what it stands to lose by pulling out.
Examples of mass-market cars benefitting from technology developed in racing are few and far between. It’s all about marketing.
*EDIT* Like ajla said!
I have seen lots of information on Nascar fans; the fact is that many of them come from other states to watch a race (I remember seeing the stats for the Talladega race last year – people from all the mainland states and several foreign countries). There’s other info I’ve seen that I can’t remember now, but I haven’t seen any data on what cars and trucks they own.
I agree that there is little or no technology transfer from NASCAR race cars to production vehicles, but I do believe that the transfer of winning images to production vehicles, rather than technology, is what gets the car companies to pay for racing programs.
Why don’t GM, Ford and Chrysler just agree to pull the plug? NASCAR exists solely for the betterment of NASCAR. There’s nothing new coming to market because of NASCAR, anyway.
The only downside to Chrysler pulling out is that Ford and GM get some slight marketing boost out of it, compared to Chrysler. Forget it. Maybe just stay in the truck series, if the trucks benefit.
If I was the head of racing for GM, Ford, Dodge or Toyota and I heard that NASCRAP was going to a one-size-fits-all design and the only thing distinguising the “Camry” from the “Fusion” from the “Impala” from the “Charger” was some decals –DECALS!– I would have taken my budget and gone off to play in some other racing series.
I’m sure the hard-core NASCRAP fan understands that the “Charger” is actually derived from a 1965 Ford Galaxie (or at least it was before the CoT) and that the so-called “Hemi” engine is also a homogenized, pasteurized, choking-on-a-four-barrel-carb design… and couldn’t less… because he watches it just for the contrived multi-car crashes because the rules ensure that no car can break away from the pack, like they used to do in the Bill Elliott days.
Whatever. Attendance at the races is down, as is the TV ratings. NASCRAP is slowly going down the drain, only their management is like GM’s. They aren’t getting it.
Sine marketing has been brought up, let me throw out a couple questions –
Does Honda get any extra sales because of supplying the engines for Indy? Do most Honda buyers even know what engines are running in Indy?
I’m not denying that NASCAR may be good marketing. Nor am I accepting that it is good marketing. Is there a way to know this beyond conjecture?
They had ACR Neons in the 90’s. Vipers had class wins at Lemans, ALMS. Those cars were a lot closer to the idea of racing improves the breed.
I notice that they don’t make Neons anymore and they couldn’t find someone with enough backing (or sense) to buy the Viper. So, relevancy of what is raced to what is driven doesn’t really seem to matter.
Even with current crop of Frances screwing up Nascar there still no bigger racing stage in the US.
Don’t equate the relative primitiveness of the cars with a lack of knowledge and expertise of the car and engine builder. These people are capable of building anything to the limit of the rules they are given.
I don’t understand the hate for “choking-on-a-four-barrel-carb”. If there was a switch to F.I. there would be rules in place for maximum fuel pressure and injectors would be limited to a certain size. There’s no way in the world that the rules would be wide open. After converting over, the same super teams would still be on top.
It wouldn’t bother me if they did convert to F.I., but the racing would be about the same. What bugs me more about Nascar is restrictions on shocks and gearing. If I own a car and I want to run it at 12,000 RPMs I should. As far as shocks go, as long as the car isn’t scrapping the pavement that should not be anyone else s business. Also, the insanity of “The Chase” should end.
As far as the purity of the WRC check out the S2000 specs.
Like jpcavanaugh brought up, Dodge’s NASCAR association sells some Rams.
How many vehicles does Dodge sell by being NASCAR that they would not get by leaving the sport? How much does it cost Dodge to be in NASCAR? If the money brought in from question 1 is less than the expenditure from question 2, then it makes no sense to continue to stay in the sport. I don’t know what the two figures are, but just because they sell some Rams because of their association does not by definition mean they should stay.
Nascar has a significant market pull, no matter if denialists like it or not. Its business is the envy of F1 and Bernie mentioned it several times in interviews.
@Happy_Endings:
I agree. If it is a money loser, then it’s a poor marketing scheme and Dodge shouldn’t be doing it.
ChryslerCo cut its NASCAR budget by 30% for this year. They also swear up and down that NASCAR racing is a net positive program, so take that for whatever it’s worth.
________
As far as numbers go, I wasn’t able to find anything concrete about sales from NASCAR involvement.
However, I was able to find that GM’s current (and also slashed) NASCAR commitment is $85 million. GM runs 15 full-time Sprint Cup cars, 19 full-time Nationwide Series cars, and 10 full-time Truck Series “trucks”.
Chrysler runs 7 full-time Sprint Cup cars, 3 full-time Nationwide Series cars, and 2 full-time Truck Series “trucks”.
So Chrysler’s NASCAR effort is only about 30% of GM’s. However, I don’t know exactly what that means for Chrysler cost-wise. Just to venture a total guess, I’d expect it to be in the $20-$40 million area.
Don’t equate the relative primitiveness of the cars with a lack of knowledge and expertise of the car and engine builder. These people are capable of building anything to the limit of the rules they are given.…
Well said. NASCAR is not crap, not by a long shot. The hardware might appear to be stone knives and bearskins, but it is the most refined stone knife you will ever find. NASCAR’s reach is deep and it is wide. I don’t have numbers to prove it, but my instinct is that they get a good value for the amount of exposure. I do lament the lack of stock in stock car racing though. NASCAR is a bit of a challenge for Detroit. The cars are not the stars; the drivers are. The cars have nothing in common with production cars. So, the concept of “manufacturer wins” is stupid. But the demographic for vehicles like the Ram are perfect.
dejal: I agree with your thoughts on the Chase. I also loathe the “lucky dog”…bring back racing to the caution PLEASE.
“Why Isn’t ChryCo Dodging NASCAR?”
Why isn’t GM?
“In this sense, NASCAR is a historical deadweight anchoring Dodge to the past.”
You seem to think that NASCAR is the only motorsports Dodge participates in. It’s not. It just happens to be the most well known (maybe that has something to do with NASCAR being the most popular motorsport in the US if not the world, I don’t know).
“Yet, as long as NASCAR remains Dodge’s sole motorsport focus…”
??? (imagine AFLAC duck making one of those WTF? expressions).
In 2006, the Dodge Viper Competition Coupe won the very first FIA-sanctioned GT3 Championship race. And don’t tell Gary Scelzi 2005 NHRA Funny Car Champion that Dodge is only focused on NASCAR. He campaigned a “Charger” funny car at least till 2007.
Also:
Mopar has renewed its agreement with NHRA to sponsor the NHRA Mopar Hemi Challenge race series, a wildly popular three-event schedule of events that will showcase the world’s fastest Super Stock cars.
“The Mopar Hemi Challenge illustrates the amazing dedication of the grassroots racers that are the core of the series,” said Jim Sassorossi, director of Mopar Global Parts sales and marketing, Chrysler LLC. “The dedicated racers who compete in the Mopar Hemi Challenge buy parts from a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep dealership and pour money, time, and sweat into their Mopar Hemi-powered race cars. They are great examples of the passion that exists in the drag racing community for the Mopar brand.”
And also:
The first drag-race-only, factory-prepped package car built in 40 years, the new Challenger Drag Race Package Car by Mopar builds on the heritage of the 1968 HEMI®-powered Dodge Darts and Plymouth Barracudas. The limited-edition ’68 package cars represented a significant point in Mopar’s history—solidifying the brand as a quarter-mile force. A watershed moment in drag racing history, they were also a major milestone in the evolution of the second-generation HEMI powerplant (426 HEMI engine).
Based on the Challenger SRT8®, Mopar’s modern, factory-prepped Challenger Drag Race Package Car will begin with a special Body-in-White (BIW) from Chrysler’s Brampton, Ontario, Canada assembly plant. It has been updated for modern racing conditions. Special weight-reduction modifications were made by eliminating unnecessary components and systems. To accentuate the weight savings, it will also feature added composite, polycarbonate and lightweight components designed for drag racing. The engine was repositioned and the wheelbase was shortened to improve the driveline angle/clearance and weight distribution.
“Mopar worked with the NHRA—the world’s largest and loudest auto racing organization—to approve our race-prepped Challenger for drag race competition,” said Sunil Lahoti, Senior Manager – Mopar Marketing and Brand Strategy, Chrysler LLC. “Engineered to race, our Package Car has what an NHRA drag racer needs to thunder down the strip in competition. It’s made for straight-line, drag-strip acceleration—and is prepped to score victories off the Tree.”
“…its utter lack of value as a sports car.”
One of two Dodge entries in the Grand-Am Koni Sports Car Challenge race at Daytona this past January was a Challenger (the other as an SRT4).
As much as we’d like to fool ourselves into thinking that ‘elite’ racing organizations like F1 and WRC are at the forefront of advanced vehicle technology, the sad truth is that this is not true.
The current trend in both F1 and WRC has been a continuous reduction in the role that technology plays in competition, from the elimination of electronically controlled differentials and the upcomming Super2000 rules (which eliminate the use of turbocharging) in WRC, to F1 proposals for a single manufacturer engine and edicts to drastically reduce team spending (sparking a revolt among team owners in the process) which has the effect of negating any technological advancements a team makes. In all honesty, I can’t recall any recent F1 or WRC developments that have made their way into production vehicles. Please, somebody tell me I’m wrong.
Chrysler will remain in NASCAR because there is little money invessted by them. The only contribution they need to make is to continue producing engines for their teams. The development of the chassis, aerodynamics, suspension, etc. is all handled by the teams ad not Chrysler. Whether a Chrysler engined racecar is successful is insignificant because of the advertising exposure they recieve just by participating. Contrast this to F1 and WRC teams like Mitsubishi, Subaru, Honda, BMW, Suzuki, and Peugeot who need to justify their expenditures in how many podium finishes they achieve. When they were unable to do so, they went the way of the dodo.
My only gripe is that NASCAR needs more road racing. I saw a race they ran earler at Watkins Glen. That was quite an exicting race.
quasimondo :
August 23rd, 2009 at 12:36 am
In all honesty, I can’t recall any recent F1 or WRC developments that have made their way into production vehicles. Please, somebody tell me I’m wrong.
All I can think of is paddle shifters, dual-clutch automatics (F1), and street versions of rally cars, like the Subaru WRX.
NASCAR is cheap advertising for Dodge–it’s that simple. Participating in NASCAR keeps the “Dodge” brand plastered everywhere at tracks and on TV.
NASCAR fans I know are much, much more likely to own “American” cars/trucks than F1 or WRC fans. So Dodge decision-makers can legitimately consider NASCAR involvement as part of their ongoing relationship with core consumers.
Honestly, NASCAR has done an incredible job of adapting and maintaining the series decades after it should have evaporated. Back in the day when the cars were truly ‘stock’, it made sense for the manufacturers to fund and directly participate with the rationale of the ‘race on Sunday, sell on Monday’ dictum.
But that was during the sixties’ musclecar heyday, the epitome being when both Chrysler and Ford would sell barely street-legal NASCAR replicas in the showrooms and the kinship between NASCAR and production vehicles was a whole lot closer. As the years passed and cheap, big V8 engine, RWD domestic coupes left the marketplace, well, there wasn’t anything ‘stock’ left to race anymore that consumers could easily identify with. Today’s NASCAR vehicles have as much in common with what’s sold in the showrooms as F1 cars.
The only real advantage NASCAR has over other auto racing venues is simply that the size of a NASCAR racer has lots more advertising space for which to make it a rolling billboard and, unlike drag racing, television screen time is long enough to warrant the promotion.
My prediction is that the Koni Challenge series, running real production based Mustangs, Camaros and Challengers, will be a hit.
The smartest thing NASCAR could do is switch the Nationwide series to actual “stock” cars based on the above revived pony cars.
Why single out Dodge? If it is true for them, then it is true for GM, Ford & Toyota. As a matter fact, I don’t believe Toyota ever had a push-rod V8 engine from which to draw and they, I believe, are the least likely of all NASCAR participants though they have adapted and done well.
Dodge is probably the most likely candidate as a Dodge Charger more closely resembles its Sprint Cup car version. While admittedly not real close, it’s closer than a FWD Impala, Fusion or Camry.
NASCAR is not designed to be a R&D workbench for the auto industry. I’m not sure what it is really supposed to be as the old mantra of “Win on Sunday, sell on Monday” is long gone. It’s entertainment I guess; I think it’s a stretch calling it a sport.