AutoBild reports that Audi will be dropping Lamborghini-sourced V10s from its R8, RS6 and S8 models. AB blames the V10’s weight, thirst and complexity for the move, although one might guess brand strategy played a role in the decision as well. With over twice as many brands as GM, the Volkswagen Group has to work hard at not competing with itself, and keeping V10s in the Lamborghini camp seems like a good place to start. But Audi’s long-soldiering aluminum 4.2 V8, which has seen duty in everything from the R8 to the RS4, has also earned eight-cylinder engines a home in the Audi brand. And since that engine is used by independent supercar manufacturers from Spyker to Gumpert, there’s no shame in giving up a pair of cylinders. Besides, with the new S4 downsized to a supercharged V6, there’s room at the top of the range for an eight-pot. And guess what? There’s a new one in the works. AutoBild says an Audi-only 4.0 V8 is being developed which will make up to 550 hp and 515 lb·ft of twist in its highest state of tune. And even that won’t be the be-all and end-all of Audi performance: an R5 coupe is set to debut towards the end of 2011, powered by a 375 hp 2.5 liter turbo-five that harks back to the Ur-Quattro.
No complaints from me – V8s sound so much better than V10s.
All of today’s V-12s and V-10s are going to go the same way of the V-12s and V-16s of the 1930s, and for largely the same reasons, too. They are magnificent anachronisms, but not much more.
V8s sound so much better than V10s.
Obviously coming from someone who’s never heard an RS6 at redline.
I have never understood the V-10. A 4 is small. A straight 6 is inherently balanced. A V-8 is not as smooth as a 6, but it can be shorter. Best of all for smoothness and power (but not weight and cost) is a V-12. What advantage does a V-10 have?
What advantage does a V-10 have?
10 is more than 8 and less than 12?
If you need to differentiate your vehicle from its V-8 competition, but don’t want to deal with all the cost, complexity and packaging issues of a V-12. You might go with a V-10.
Five cylinder engines should be outlawed.
I think Audi sold about 15 V-10 equipped cars. That could explain this move.
Personally, if I were Audi, I’d and market the hell out of the new supercharged V6 in the A6.
That thing is a rocket, and gets better mileage than an 8. Great motor.
“an R5 coupe is set to debut towards the end of 2011, powered by a 375 hp 2.5 liter turbo-five that harks back to the Ur-Quattro.”
d O_O
2.5 liter turbo-five
with direct injection
I can’t understand why ICE needs more than 6 cylinders.
If the power is not enough, add turbo. If the torque is not enough, add displacement. If it’s good enough for 911 turbo, it’s good for 99.99% of all cars.
Extra cylinders only serves to attract engineering-illiterate car buyers.
There’s a very good analysis of the CAFE changes announced by Obama and how they compared to Bush’s prior announcement to raise CAFE limits.
The NHTSA did a detailed forecast of projected dramatic increases in CVTs and DSGs, hybrid electrics, turbo/supercharging combined with smaller displacement engines, diesel, and FSI/TFSI type direct injection.
Audi is clearly proceeding along the path predicted by the NHTSA. The US CAFE rules are definitely affecting the global market.
CVTs and DSGs, hybrid electrics, turbo/supercharging combined with smaller displacement engines, diesel, and FSI/TFSI type direct injection.
And to think GM would still be using carburetors and 2-speed autos if they thought they could get away with it.
@jmo: And to think GM would still be using carburetors and 2-speed autos if they thought they could get away with it.
Well, that’s all NASCAR allows in their Car of Tomorrow — carburated pushrod engines mounted in roll cages made of square-section steel tubing. Shockingly the series does run the ultra-modern radial tires rather than bias-ply ones though.
Slap twins on that V8 and you’ve got something…. BMW did it, why not Audi? A twin screw blower might also be interesting…
BTW – I’d take a LS7 or LS9 over just about anything… Light weight, small exterior dimensions, good fuel economy for HP, mega-torque from idle to redline, bulletproof design, sounds great, not mega-bucks to replace in a rare occasion of failure, etc… Sorry, but GM does get a few things right…
jmo: “10 is more than 8 and less than 12?”
vs.
wsn: “Extra cylinders only serves to attract engineering-illiterate car buyers.”
Most car buyers are engineering illiterate.
5 cylinder turbo quattro (please please please make it light)!?! Where do I sign?
Listen to that unique character here.
BTW, Audi, get back into some mad rally domination too.
“Slap twins on that V8 and you’ve got something…. BMW did it, why not Audi? “
Audi’s official explanation is that in development they worked on a twin-turbo S4, but they found that a supercharger worked better for them, and the supercharger concept vehicle outperformed the twin-turbo one for the following reasons:
Hatz explained that there are challenges in packaging turbocharger systems with Audi’s current crop of V-configuration engines. These engine packages are short, which invited placing the turbo atop the engine… but this raised fitment issues on the V6, particularly due to the tight constraints for which it was planned. Putting the turbos far away, like behind the engine, makes it harder to achieve ULEV2 emissions and also increases turbo lag.
RS:”What advantage does a V-10 have?”
Marketing: Formula 1 used to use them, so they started creeping into European cars (even though Audi wasn’t even in F1).
R5 will be competing with the BMW M3, I hope the end performance will be similar. Presume R5 will have the DSG, very nice transmission.
5 cylinder engines are actually quite nice overall. If you take the boat anchor 2.5 from the US Spec Golf and Jetta out of consideration. They surely have much more character than almost any 4, and sound great!
“NASCAR allows in their Car of Tomorrow”
Isn’t that a contradiction in terms???
“sounds great, not mega-bucks to replace in a rare occasion of failure, etc… Sorry, but GM does get a few things right…”
Like steal tax payer money for their sh*ty cars?! All GM products should be burned in a huge bonfire. On topic, that Audi 2.5 5 banger is going to be a serious engine. BMW’s ///M division is dumping the normally aspirated route by 2013.
wsn :
September 25th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Extra cylinders only serves to attract engineering-illiterate car buyers.
So why isn’t BMW selling any fours to its gearhead buyers?
Answer: because their sixes work better.
johnthacker :
September 25th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
The US CAFE rules are definitely affecting the global market.
Good to know the world still listens to us when we’re not sticking Tomahawks up some country’s ass… :)
Maybe its me…
But I just had an epiphany…
Im guessing that Audi wont actually suffer from a drop in engine size. They will just do what BMW and MB do.. when downsizing motors. Just strap 2 turbo/superchargers to it.. and act like nothing happened.
As for not offering V10s..
Id like to see / know a Audi driver who actually knows what mill is under the hood, and complains about his fuel economy in his Q7, Q5, R/S6 etc etc.
“Just strap 2 turbo/superchargers to it.. and act like nothing happened.”
Perhaps High School was optional. . .
“Just strap 2 turbo/superchargers to it.. and act like nothing happened.?”
It’s FAR more complicated than that. Perhaps you buy/own American garbage car(s).?
@FreedMike:
So why isn’t BMW selling any fours to its gearhead buyers?
Answer: because their sixes work better.
I think it goes beyond the mere fact that they “work better.”
In the U.S., BMW understands that the perception of luxury is vital to their brand, and a six provides a smoothness and exhaust note that is not easily duplicated with four cylinders. It probably doesn’t hurt that gasoline in the U.S. is relatively inexpensive, as well.
^^^^ Also note that, according to reports, BMW will once again be selling fours in North America next year.