Youthful turns to Faithful, which eventually turns to Old Faithful, with the oil leaks to show. You’ve loved Old Faithful. But all around there are hotties and hussies that tempt you. Some are fun. Others are Chryslers. But the moment has come. It’s time to either fix or sell. What to do?
The economist within our minds always says to fix, and with good reason. The overwhelming majority of new and late model car buyers inherit close to $20,000 in debt to solve problems that usually cost less than $1,000. Virtually everything in a car can be replaced with the exception of the dim bulb behind the wheel. Cheap tires can be de-Walmarted. Shocks and struts can be replaced. Even exteriors and interiors can find the fountain of youth, or respectable middle age. Detailing, well chosen recycling centers, eBay, enthusiast groups par excellence. Even the most mundane of vehicles can be given facelifts and upgrades that put Joan River’s face and Dolly Parton’s patooties to shame.
But then there’s divorce. You’ve seen the California lifestyle and want to be a part of it. With the macho guy truck, and blonde cutie convertible beckoning your scantily clad bank account you decide to take the plunge. Congratulations. You’re a stalwart defender of our economic future and will be employing a long line of people the world over. From master craftsmen to master politicians and other over-payed [Ed. Do you mean overpaid?] morons. Even auto critics! You’ve crossed the line to the modern era. But here’s the question: where do you think that line will be for your current ride?
When my ’99 Accord stick ceases being a pleasure to drive due to aging engine or general materials fatigue https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/piston-slap-david-the-explorer-questions-ttacs-used-reviews/
or when it becomes so unreliable that it becomes inconvenient.
I owned two Chevys for over 10 years; they eventually fell apart. I bought my ’04 Mazda 6 4-cyl with the intent of keeping it a loooong time. So far it’s been trouble-free, moreso than the Chevys (or anything else we’ve owned). I’m hoping decision-time for me (ie repair over $1,500) won’t be for another 10 years. Wishful thinking?
The overwhelming majority of new and late model car buyers inherit close to $20,000 in debt to solve problems that usually cost less than $1,000.
It’s not so much the $500 repairs, it’s being late to work, waiting for AAA, renting a car, bumming rides of friend and co-workers and all the other hassels of a broken down car. Once these things start happening with some regularity you need to move on.
3 cars, 3 answers.
93 Crown Vic. Currently driven almost exclusively by teenagers. 105K and looks good. The car leaks power steering fluid and my mechanic says a $5-600 rebuild is required, but my logic is that as long as I hold off spending the money, my kids won’t wreck it:)Real Answer: When the R-12 a/c quits working. This is because there is one fully functional power window left. No a/c and no windows to roll down is a bad thing.
96 Odyssey. 212K, everything works. This is the teenager car in traing, so it has a higher budget. This car should be good for 250K easy, and I figure $1000-1500/yr is reasonable to keep it in top shape. Above that, I have to think about it.
07 Honda Fit. 42K, the plan is 150K minimum out of this one. Again, an average of $1000-1500/yr in repairs is acceptable. This is the 3rd year of ownership, and I have spent about $350 on rear brakes and $700 on tires. These have been the first expenses (other than fluid changes), so I am running well below my threshold.
Ab Jenkins’ “Mormon Meteor”… it’s a Doozy alright.
My daily driver is a 2002 Jetta TDI. I’ll just minimally maintain it until it dies, or a suitable (must be Diesel powered so I can run it on home brew) replacement shows up. I’d prefer a 2 seater as it is a commuter, so that Blue Motion VW would fit the bill. If Alfa comes back to the US with a JTDM Spider I’ll buy that (and likely will regret it though!)
The other car is my dad’s old E-type and being a Family Heirloom (like the pictured Duesenberg) I’ll do whatever it takes to keep that baby running. It will never be parked for more than a winter and always be seeing some use. I’ve rebuilt the engine, replaced parts, and worn two sets of tires off it in the past 6 years… and will continue to do so until I die. Then my sons can keep doing too.
–chuck
I’m considering replacing the engine on a 14 year old car that I bought new. I really like the car. Putting a used engine in it will cost about what the car is worth and it is someone else’s used engine; a remanufactured engine about 3-4k more than the car is worth. I’d be dropping 6 grand into a car worth 3 grand, after which it will still be worth 3 grand.
So I looked at new and used cars for a suitable replacement vehicle (not the same brand). I’ll spend at least 22k on a new one, and at least 8 or 9k on a used car that someone else decided to get rid of after 4-6 years.
I’m thinking I’ll put a remanufactured engine in it (3-year, unlimited miles warranty) and keep babying the car like I always have. The car has never left me stranded, and I like it more than other cars I tried.
Now if you don’t like your ride, or think of it as an appliance . . . .
With 185,000 miles, my namesake, leon has needed some electrical work in the past 4 months of his 12 years.
A mechanic seems to have stretched the wiring harness when the engine(timing belt– long arguments with a parent familiar with mechanics, but not belt-driven double camshaft engines)and clutch were replaced at 169,222.
With $250.00 spent, the vehicle speed sensor wiring, the crank position sensor wiring and the grounds reattached, I’m now waiting patiently on attaining 200,000 miles. Then I can let myself have a Caliber as a treat:)
There’s no time when you really have to give up on a car– it only takes patience and skill.
jmo nailed it.
In my case, my old commuter car (1980 Volvo 240 bought used in ’82) started to break down at inopportune times, such as twice on the “old” side of the divided highway for much of the trip, the side that has no shoulders! Not fun with traffic heading at you at 60 mph.
I think it was the infamous “biodegradable” wiring that was starting to go, mind you at 240K miles. It also had rust, including one spot in a structural area inboard of the right rear wheel.
But 21 years and 245K miles wasn’t bad, and no single repair cost over $500. It was an easy car to work on myself.
The oldest vehicle in my fleet is a ’98 Nissan Frontier, purchased slightly used from my employer in the same year. It looks great, runs great, and is simply built (4-cylinder, 5-speed manual, 2wd, regular cab, air, power steering and brakes, manual everything else). It only has 69K miles on it now, so I figure as long as it runs without problems, it’s a keeper. Oh, and 26 mpg on average and no timing belt.
It’s a tough balancing deciding if it is worth trading vs keeping it running. I traded my last car because it needed new tires and I was unwilling to spend the $150 per tire (cheapest tire I could find that would do the job) and because I had also just dropped over $600 for a scheduled maintenance trip and the thing guzzled premium like there was no tomorrow.
Currently my econo-warm-hatch (not quite powerful enough to be a hot-hatch) ’02 Protege5 is hitting the point where I am weighing the pros and cons of keeping vs trading. I’ve kept the oil changed, replaced all four tires once and the front set a second time, and given it a new set of front brake pads, but at 75K miles that is it. According to the service schedule I should have replaced some spark plugs, some air filters, some belts, and a number of other items but my general philosophy is that if a car can’t run well with just oil changes, a tire rotation here and there, and occasional wear item replacement than it isn’t worth the time or trouble.
The trouble with big repair bills, trannies, electrical work, etc, is that they come out of the blue. I can budget my car payment per month to know I will have enough money to pay when it is due, but a sudden $1500 in order to keep the vehicle moving could cause other bills to go unpaid, and that is something I won’t deal with.
The trick, in my mind, is to trade the car while it is still worth something and before you have spent big money replacing broken parts. If I just keep driving it until the transmission grenades itself one day, well, it won’t be worth bupkis so I’ve effectively lost several thousand worth of equity towards a new car. At the same time, I don’t want to pay maintenance bills on a car that are as much or more than a payment on a new car would be.
At this point I’m going to hope that all goes well with it (knock on wood) until Ford rolls out some attractive lease deals on the 2010 Taurus.
When it is totaled, according to my insurance company– or when it requires more repairs in any given year than the vehicle itself is worth– then it’s time to trade her in.
I proudly drove a 1994 Nissan Hardbody pickup through most of high school and college, only to have it pretty well knackered by a veritable deer jihad on the way home from the late shift one cold December morning.
The damage totaled the truck– though it was drivable. The insurance payoff (about $2,000 if I remember correctly) and the remaining value of the truck itself ($900 with the salvage title) helped me get into a (very) lightly used 2006 Ford Ranger XL quite easily. With a little down-payment money (just shy of $4,000), I was paying $80 car payments for the last few months of my college career, on a truck that was only a year old. Once I went to work full-time (after graduating college,) I paid her off quickly. With more than four years left on my original loan note, as a matter of fact.
When I sat down to run the numbers on that deal (after calling the nearby dealership once I saw the truck advertised in the paper), I figured it made perfect financial sense. After all, if I had suffered another collision in the already-totaled Nissan, I figured I’d be pushing my luck getting any insurance compensation for the (probably non-running) truck or any injuries sustained.
She had served me well, but the time had sadly come to put her out to pasture. If I had continued driving her– especially through that particularly deer-infested winter– I was just asking for an undesirable situation to become an unmanageable one. Another incident could have easily left me without wheels to get back and forth to work, and without a trade-eligible vehicle to boot.
The good Lord willing, knock on wood, your preferred disclaimer here, I’m planning on driving the Ranger to at least 200,000 miles. She’s already at 52,000 and still running flawlessly with a far lower cost of ownership than the old Nissan (totaled at just shy of 150,000 miles), when you factor in maintenance needs and fuel efficiency. In fact, she’s still got plenty of tread on the original Contitracs on the front wheels– which despite their road noise makes me heavily consider replacing my mixed Contitrac/Michelin LTX set with all Continentals whenever they’re due for a change.
These replies to these posts are always great…
Over 40% of my gross goes into the payments/care/feeding/insurance of stuff with tires every month. Absolute crazyness in comparison.
Generally speaking, when there occurs or threatens a major failure that I can’t fix myself and the cost of which exceeds the value of the vehicle, it’s time to let go. Thus, I am hunting a replacement for my ancient Thunderbird with a dying transmission.
The difference is that I probably won’t buy a late-model vehicle. I have what I call the “6-8 rule” – you can buy a six to eight year old vehicle with 60,000 to 80,000 miles on it for $6000 to $8000 and drive it for six to eight years before the car descends to beaterdom. It’s not a perfect formula, but it’s a decent rule of thumb.
Outside of replacement due to loss by accident, I’ve had 2 primary reasons to move on from a ride. The first has been when current technology moves way beyond what I’m driving now, especially safety equipment (i.e. airbags). The second has been when the wife notes that the hoopty is looking extremely disreputable, and much like that favorite old pair of jeans that has grown threadbare to the point of bordering public indecency, it’s time to donate Old Faithful to a worthy person/cause. I’ve rarely gotten more than a few hundred bucks the few times that I’ve traded in the old wheels.
I’ve been debtating this point myself for a few months. 2001 Mercedes that is paid off but due to its AMG flavor, even more expensive to repair than your average german car.
Just turned 105K miles, former CPO car that I picked up with 32K on the odo. In order to replace its performance and amenities I have to spend over $45K or so. This year it cost me $5K in repairs chasing a gremlin that remains unfound (occasional stumble of engine when coming to a stop). That $40K replacement car assuming zero down and zero percent will cost $8K per year over 5 years, not counting the higher insurance cost of a newer car.
I figure I’m better off holding on to it because of that until I reach a 12 month period of repair expenses exceeding $8K ($6K is really my internal breaking point which is slightly more than a full transmission replacement plus regular maintenance for a year – trans being one major expense/weak point for the car).
Overall the car continues to look like its in very good condition and having been underneath it myself changing some items at the 80K point (brakes, shocks, etc) there is not a spot of rust to be found and it really is built like a tank. More than likely I will keep it until the 150K point (approx 4 years more of driving making 10 total years of ownership for me) and craigslist it for the best offer I can get then, unless the trans or engine goes.
My ’98 GTI just turned 200K last week. Main things wrong with it are rust, and I want something more comfortable. I’ll wait until I find a 2005 545 at a price I like, then buy my 13 year old a welder. That will give us a year or two to fix the rust and he has his own ride when he gets his license. Mind you it’s a good 50 foot car (every car is mint if you stand far enough away), has a newer engine and I just installed a rebuilt transmission last month. Still plenty of life left in it.
The ’98 Benz only has 194K on it. Say what you will about Mercedes quality, it’s a durable car and barring any accidents should go to 300K. Really.
The best kind of car to have is the kind that’s payed for. The exception to the repair rule is when there’s something wrong and you’ve spent $500.00 three times over to fix the same problem and no one knows what to do.
The overwhelming majority of new and late model car buyers inherit close to $20,000 in debt to solve problems that usually cost less than $1,000.
How many of those thousand-dollar payments can you stomach? And how much is your time worth? And do you really need a $20,000 car.
Case in point, my old 9-3:
* Warped rotors, without fail, every year.
* Transmission browning it’s fluid in 15K
* Equipped with the it’ll-sludge-guaranteed B205 engine
* Replaced, in one year, the DI cassette, air conditioner, several sensors, throttle body, motor mounts, one control arm, both front struts both headlights (twice), headlight switch, heater core, neutral position switch.
If the transmission wasn’t browning it’s fluid and the engine wasn’t showing varnish, I might have kept it. But here’s the second part: have you ever pushed a car to a mechanic with a screaming toddler and your haggled s/o inside? Have you waited for a tow with a infant in 30-degree Celsius weather? Have you missed a critical meeting and had to attend via patchy cellphone on the side of the highway?
Sometimes, the CPO Toyota that you can bargain the dealer into padding the warranty on is really, really attractive. And in my case, it wasn’t much more, after trade, than a new engine and/or transmission for the Saab.
The “Fix or Sell” conundrum really depends on where you are in your life. If I still lived in a major city with comprehensive transit and/or didn’t have very young children, I might answer different. It’s not a hard-and-fast economic decision, unless your time and sanity is worth nothing to you.
When my last Accord, a 92 with a 2.2 I4, finally decided to toss its engine sensor… it allows the motor to go from 4th gear down to 1st and go again…
The side door window seal always got caught…
Then there was the trunk.. ONE tap, and it ruined the alignment of the qtr panel / trunk, never had decent working rear lights after that..
I could even deal with the idea of the bad rear main seal..
Damn sensor..
I am in this boat as well. Wife _WANTS_ a new car even though we don’t have anything wrong with the current one (yr 2000 neon, 175k).
Body is ok with minor rust near the bottom of one door, front splash shield broke off, and outside of the manual mirror control & trunk lock not working, everything else works as intended. it seems to eat 1/2 qt of oil every 1500 miles and we change oil at 3000 or so. We are a family of 2, so groceries easily fit in the back seat. Neither set of in-laws lives within 30 miles so we don’t really cary anyone around with us.
Why should we toss it?
On the other hand, my dad has a 1993 buick century wagon(6 cyl) with 90k miles on it he paid to have an engine rebuild done on it.. WHY? KBB in good condition is $1100. Why would you put $1700 into an engine rebuild?
FWIW: he has never ever bought a car “new”
First car, 82 Chevy Celebrity, belonged to my dad who bought it 3 years used with 45k on it. When I got it? Approximately 100K and had just had it’s anemic “Iron Duke” replaced with a remanufactured unit for what my dad thought was the princely sum of $600. I drove it about 20k in 4 years, handed the keys over to my sister, she took her to about 150k. It was a rusty POS but still had the original transmission and the “state of the art” tape deck I had installed in place of the stock radio. The thing ate O2 sensors at an alarming rate but otherwise seemed OK. Only consistent problem was a torque converter that sometimes refused to lock up and caused the dash to shake like a mofo when it was having trouble. Dad sold it to my cousin when my sis got a different car. Cousin hand wrecked his IROC Z28 and drove the Celebrity while waiting 6 weeks on his car repairs. Sold it to a buddy that demo derby-ed it. My dad came so close to selling when it needed the engine rebuild but ultimately decided to keep it for his teenage son.
My current ride? 2004 F150, stone basic, auto transmission is the only real option. I carpool to work with my lady and buy the gas every other week. The Ford has 78,000 miles on it and I plan to keep it until its totaled or they won’t sell me gas any more. I use it as a truck. It’s a tool just as much as my hammer, chainsaw, or even a paintbrush.
I have a scooter too that will hit 60 mph so in good NM weather I can keep the miles down on the truck too.
Cars should be sold when they become either unsafe to drive or no longer meet the needs of the person who owns them. Example: My girlfriend drives a Pontiac Vibe. She has 0 children, if we were to marry and she were to have more than two children, then the Vibe would no longer make sense as a family vehicle.
I am of the more frugal mind that a $1000 repair is better than years of payments so I would rather fix than sell.
1998 Isuzu Rodeo 4×4 – 215k miles
This is my daily driver.
Up for second timing belt soon, and new shocks. Other than that it has been solid reliable. Replaced ABS sensor after driving through some high water. This one also has sentimental value to me, so short of engine or catastrophic tranny failure, I will not be getting rid of this vehicle.
2005 Nissan Pathfinder – 74k miles
Wife’s car, driven for long trips to see family or vacations, run errands around town. Hope to get at least 150k out of it before problems start showing up. Anything over $2 or $3k though and it’s out the door right now. One more year to pay off (bought in 2007 used), so hopefully we can get at least another 4 years out of it and enjoy a few years of no car payments.
I have an 01 Buick Regal currently. Got it for cheap off Grandma and it only has 40,000 miles on it.
It’s left me stranded twice. I had to miss work the first time to change the battery, and I had to rent a car the second time because I had to pick people up at the airport. If I had been stranded anywhere but at home, the car would be gone now.
It’s showing signs of needing tranny and suspension work currently. My tires will need replacement within 15,000 miles. I’ve had to redo both front and rear brakes. It burns oil, and has plastic manifold gaskets that are degraded by the Dexcool and cause coolant leaks (into the engine). And it doesn’t get very good gas mileage.
I’ll keep it as long as I can but I can see the reaper around the next corner with this one. If the engine or tranny go there will be no thinking about it; the other stuff I will deal with on a case-by-case basis.
The unfortunate thing is that it was picked out by my now deceased grandfather, and my grandmother seems to think his spirit is still in the car. She says things like, “He likes to do all that driving around.” (he being the car/my grandfather, not sure which) “He always liked to see Chicago!)
So I’ll feel guilty whenever it goes…
I went through this recently. My late model Buick started having little things go wrong with it after the warranty expired. I kept thinking, I’ll just replace this and all will be good. It didn’t take long for some serious fixable things to start happening. After 3 years of $2000+ of repairs per year and then finding oil dripping from the heads, I literally gave the car away. I guess my jumping off point was when my bank account was empty.
I suggest jtk cut his losses and run.
I forgot the burning oil smell, also. Think it’s dripping from the rear bank because I can’t find a leak in the front.
My big issue currently is that I can’t seem to find a car that I like for a price that I like. Everything seems to be 5K more than I think it should be.
I can get a Subaru for dealer cost through their VIP Partners Program. But I still wish the WRX was 5K cheaper.
I’ve had real bad luck with used cars, so I’m pretty hesitant there too.
My `87 Accord (with “only” 120K miles) was involved in an accident in a previous life. The repair job apparently wasn’t that great, as the underside of the rocker panel/frame is slowly but surely succumbing to rust. I haven’t had to put a lot of $ into this car to keep it running, and I expect that trend to continue, but eventually it will rust to death.
For many years I drove very nice but older European cars. I do very nearly all my own work on them too, so cost of entry and maintenance costs in monetary terms was pretty low. And, to solve the “but what if it is down for maintenance” issue, I have always had at least two that could be driven in the winter (I have assorted summer only toys besides) here in Maine.
BUT – I finally got to the age and financial resource stage of my life where I wanted a NICE car that I didn’t have to think about or wrench on. Even nice, low mileage (I had a ’95 Saab 900SET with only 70K miles on it) cars need a certain amount of TLC to be kept to MY standard. And Saab offered deals on new leftover ’08 9-3s that I just couldn’t pass up. So I sold the old Saab and my ’93 Volvo 965 and bought a brand-new 9-3 SportCombi.
Now the question is – how long do I keep the SportCombi? Well, probably until just before the warranty runs out. I have no desire to own this car out of warranty. I’ll sell it privately for top dollar and then some, as folks line up to buy my cars when I am done with them. Proper maintenance pays big dividends. Hopefully there will be something I like available in 2013-2014 or so.
In the meantime I am thoroughly enjoying having a car I don’t need to think about. Gives me time to finish the restoration of my ’69 Saab Sonett V4. :-)
It’s a lot easier to make do with fixing the problems when you have a spare vehicle. Maybe something like an old full-size pickup or SUV. If your car breaks down, forget AAA. Rent a tow dolly and tow it yourself. If friends and family pester you to move stuff for them make them pay for a tank of gas. They’ll either stop bothering you or you won’t have to spend much to fuel the beast.
I ditched my old car when parts availability started drying up, pushing prices and lead time higher. When you need to have a car ready to run calling around the country looking for a part is not fun, though it used to be when I was younger.
This is especially true for body, trim pieces and electrical items which may be specific to the model, once those are gone if the car isn’t a collectible with a rabid following it becomes an orphan. Most chassis and engine parts are shared amongst a number of models so supply levels are generally higher and last longer.
My wife’s rule is that after a car leaves her on the side of the road twice, it’s history. Her 1997 Explorer got ditched at 90K miles because of that rule. She replaced it with a 2001 Explorer (I know, I know, her choice not mine) and so far with 115K miles it’s not had a problem.
For me it’s a tougher choice and I’m reaching decision point on my primary ride. My 1998 Lexus LS400 has 175K miles on it and in the next several months it’s going to need a new timing belt ($1500) and new tires ($1100 or so) and it just ate its first O2 sensor (oddly, my MPG has gone up from 23 to 26 now that the O2 sensor is dead, with no discernable change in performance, maybe I should submit a Piston Slap about that). The O2 sensor went about 2 weeks after my Toyota mechanic has hinted that after 200K lots of things are going to start to fall apart, so is it a sign? A big part of me says it’s time for a replacement.
BUT. I love this car, it’s given me excellent, trouble-free service since I bought it in 2001, comfortable ride for the 75-100 miles I drive in an average day, with effortless power. The only bad thing I can say about it is that after 8 years I feel ready to have something new. Is that a good enough reason to dump a great car that’s given great service and is just as nice as it was the day I bought it?
Normally that would be a reason to put up with problems, but another factor is that I live in a rural area with a long daily commute and getting it to the garage for anything more than a lunchtime oil change is a major family logisiticial undertaking. So… unreliability is intolerable.
So I guess I’ll be like my wife and say it’s gone after it strands me twice. Another thought was to take the more evil route: skip the timing belt replacement and let the belt make the decision for me.
xyzzy :
Any rust issues on that 1998 Lexus? I’ll take it off your hands for free. ;)
I would love to have an old luxury car to maintain, yours is practically a collectors item.
I usually fix (or will fix) at high mileage except maybe;
engine blown- don’t have the skills necessary to replace
tranny blown- for automatics
safety advances- side airbags and ESC and better crash test results make me want to buy a new car right away
I’m pondering this as well. My ride is now eating a battery a year due to an unknown issue. Not a huge problem, but the small stuff is starting to add up. Trunk latch actuator, lamp control module, plus the wear and tear stuff like tires… and next year it will be shocks and struts as the car has 130k. Oh, and the clutch too (still has the original clutch!!!)
My 1.5k budget for repairs will probably see $3-4k next year. All for an 11 year old car.
When you get a luxury/sporty car, you get luxurious/sporty repair bills.
@jmo: Excellent, especially when for most people cars are appliances, no emotional attachment.
I’ve had cars that I liked and wanted to keep longer than 4+ years but the $2000+ to get it to good condition instead of just mediocre makes me consider using the money as a down payment. Also the new car had something that my current one didn’t/couldn’t have such as larger trunk, 4 doors, ABS, etc. because my needs had changed.
@xyzzy: “The only bad thing I can say about it is that after 8 years I feel ready to have something new. Is that a good enough reason to dump a great car that’s given great service and is just as nice as it was the day I bought it?”
Yes.
Probably my #1 reason for getting a new car every 4-5 years. Seems frivolous and shallow but I enjoy finding out that the new car takes corners better or is much quieter, etc. than my old car.
OK, I’ll offer a healthy helping of advice and insights that may/may not be worth your time.
Holzman: Great car. You can drive it for another 10 years if you want to.
Tex: See Holzman’s comments above…
jmo: Absolutely right. This is one of the reasons why I’m so fanatical about buying high quality replacement parts instead of the cheap stuff.
jpcavanaugh: The A/C on the 93 can be converted for less than $100 and the window regulators can be found dirt cheap at car-part.com . The Odyssey will have far better side impact protection. So if it’s a matter of keeping one instead of both, sell the Crown Vic.
Chuck: We’re kindred souls. Hope to share a pint with you sometime.
findude: Depending on what it is, either get a used engine from car-part.com for dirt cheap or go the overseas seller’s route if it’s an imported model. Installation on most vehicles should be south of $500.
ineon: You may be surprised to find that the Caliber may not be as durable as the Neon. I would shop around.
delray: You’re dead on…
Nullo: Find a good independent mechanic that’s had their shop for a long time.
Banger: You made out like a bandit. Congrats!
JG: You need to get rid of your rides.
Theodore: Is your T-Bird a V6 or V8? On second thought, it’s probably a V6. If it’s a V8 go to car-part.com
Clutch: What have you traded in?
loan: That would be a good program. Revisit it in four years.
roadracer: You may be able to have it last another seven years if the electrics hold up.
I’d reply to everyone else… but it’s been a looong day.
For me, it’s been a question of replacing one older car with another one, so the “bail out and spend $20K” option isn’t one I’ll take advantage of anytime soon. I could easily afford payments, but for now I’d rather spend that much cash elsewhere. And so far as repairs go, I always know who will be doing the wrenching… me. This plan is most certainly not for everyone… ask me again in 5 years if I’m still on it!
I’ve sold a few cars out of pure vanity or just because I wanted something different, but most of the time I send them on their way when replacement parts become scarce/unavailable or when the price for parts rises way out of proportion to the car’s value. I used to love my Ramblers back in the day; inexpensive, cute and plentiful. But once the supply of suspension parts (trunions in particular) dried up and the only ones I could find were hundreds of dollars apiece, I was done with Ramblers.
Another example: I unloaded a Tercel equipped with the notorious computerized carb earlier this year. I paid a pittance for the car, and it only had 92K miles on it at purchase and ran like a top. I put another 20K on it, but then that nasty carb started bugging out. A replacement was over $600, which is all that a Tercel of that vintage is worth on a good day. I sold it for $500 and moved on. Its replacement was a Volvo 240 wagon with even more miles on it for about the same price. The difference? I can still get all the replacement parts I need for the 240, and at a reasonable price.
Paying for repairs on your daily driver is like making additional car payments… when such payments are considerably more than the car is worth, it is time to move on.
Keeping a vintage Jag on the road for sentimental purposes is another kettle of fish entirely, and reason does not apply.
jmo: Absolutely right. This is one of the reasons why I’m so fanatical about buying high quality replacement parts instead of the cheap stuff.
But, if your 150k mile car needs a new radiator, water pump, a-arms, shocks, brakes, timing belt and you go with the best, you may be sinking a couple thousand into it. If, 500 miles later, the transmission goes – well… you’ve just blown through a hefty down payment and have nothing but a heap to show for it.
I think the the buy new, buy used, repair it or sell it preference comes for luck and person experience. Sinking $2,500 into maintenance items and then finding out you need a $2,500 transmission could be a transformative experience for a man.
I find this depends on the car. I wore out a mercury mystique in 100k. Things started breaking with constancy. Bye bye. It ran 100 k with only one big problem, the variable intake manifold, but it was warranty.
We kept a 99 saab up to 160 k. When my wife calling me from one or another mall because “it won’t start again” it was time. I’d replace parts and we liked the car when it ran but with kids this can’t happen. I’d replaced parts as they wore out, and it was still cheaper than getting a fresh new note to pay off. The no-start problem was enough-more a breach of trust. My local mechanic misses this car.
My 03 330i has 200k. Not counting tires shocks and brakes, the power steering pump, alternator and battery, and control arm bushing are not too much to ask. Still reliable but maintenence is more like an airplane. The car is still tight, showing little wear, no rattles-hoping for 300k.
Somewhere this is very carefully researched. The manufacturers know exactly when the mass of folks will commit money-cide for a new car to get rid of the unpredictable fix it bills.
Usually a rear end accident takes cars out of service long before their time. One consequence of better cars is they last too long, putting replacement off for 8 to 10 years. I’ve got a 16 year old truck and a 15 year old car, still running. I can’t afford a new one under even C4C conditions so I keep them running.
And barring a TL accident that’s what I will do/
I just figure that a new car is 12 payments per year. Assume somewhere around $333 a month? Once the maintenance is added in, it’s going to be the equivalent of 15 car payments per year. A used car that’s paid for needs the same level of maintenance and (usually) a grand of repairs per year. Six is smaller than fifteen, so I drive used/paid for.
Since there are three Saabs between my wife and myself, it’s frightfully important to keep my mechanic lubricated. A bottle of single malt goes a long way to keep the price of parts down to a reasonable level. That’s an extra tenth of a car payment per quarter not factored into my equations…
and (usually) a grand of repairs per year.
That seems low to me.
Also, what age and mileage are you thinking of?
10 years old and 95k is one thing, 13 year old and 180k is something else entirely.
My own vehicles are old, really old. My daily driver is ’74 Capri, I
spent about $1K doing the brakes and wheel bearings 5 years ago, but I had
to replace everything, so I figure this car doesn’t really owe me anything…
SWMBO has an ’08 Subie Imprezza, hasn’t cost us a dime yet. And as I am the
family wrench, probably won’t cost to terribly much for the next ten or so years…
SteveL
I went beyond fix or sell a couple of years ago with my 1989 SHO.
I usually spend around a thousand dollars a year keeping her in good condition.In fact I just spent a grand on a new a/c compressor and getting the driver and passenger windows fixed.But being a southern no rust car you can keep these alive forever.My best advise is a good shop and a good car to start with!
Cars are more than appliances to me, so I change whenever I decide I want something else. 10 cars/motorcyles over the last 12 years, some used, some new, just doing my part to keep the economy rolling.
I drive an ’02 BMW 530i with a five-on-the-floor. It is showing 120 000 miles and recently needed a whole new cooling system. It is a beautiful car – in the eyes of this beholder anyway. It is all things to me – fast, economical, spacious, quiet, comfortable, hadles brilliantly. I could gog on and on.
Thoughts of replacing it have been banished due to the state of the economy. Even if I wanted to, I can’t. The big question is – with what? A new car is out of the question, so used it will have to be.The new E60 5-series looks weird, inside and out. The Mercedes E-class comes with high tech stuff like brake-by-wire that could bankrupt a second owner. And they shift gears by themselves. Not for me.
The Audi A6 doesn’t come in rear wheel drive, although you can shift the gears yourself. Four wheel drive is a waste if you live in a part of the world where it never snows, and who wants front wheel drive in an exec express? That leaves the Lexus GS, but I haven’t been able to work up any excitement for it yet.
In the light of all of the above, I am keeping my E39.
At 20 years and 222k, the car drives you…batty. I just moved to NYC, where owning a car dents both your quality of life and life span. Yes, I could replace the headliner/window regulators/AC/sunroof rails/heater and cruise controls/seat warmers/interior bits, re-stich the seats and get the exterior banged back into tolerance and painted. The amount of time and money into that prospect pulls into new-car territory, but with more headache and less fun shopping. The problem is, as you can glean from that list, there really is no problem. The car goes (even a little fast), stops, turns, and in the five years I’ve owned it, only left me stranded once. I’ve done plenty of wrenching along the way, of course. When I do the math, it all cost about the same as a payment on a $0k loan (which would buy a car with it’s own problems). So I’m stuck. Someone make me an offer–it’s a 1990 Volvo 745ti–and make the decision for me.
In the 1950s and 1960s it was rare for an engine to last 100,000-miles. The 1958 VW recommended an oil change and chassis lube at 1,000-mile intervals, there was no oil filter, and suggested an engine overhaul every 62,000-miles. VW durability was held to be legendary! Popular Mechanics’ best selling issue ever described how to drive and maintain a car to hit the century mark! A great mystique grew up surrounding break-in oil and procedures. By the 1970s most break-in oil talk had stopped, but long break-ins were still recommended. Many new owners refrained from driving over 30 mph for the first several thousand miles. 1980s metallurgy, manufacturing and lubricant quality had improved so much that achieving 100,000-miles was routine. My 1984 Buick V8 went an extraordinary 300,000-miles before it succumbed to body rust, and oil top-ups were not required! Now 300,000-mile engine life spans are not unusual. One can still prematurely destroy an engine doing really dumb things, like not renewing the fluids at prudent intervals with quality products, but most folks here are likely smarter than that.
I agree with Gardiner Westbound, it was rare for an engine to last 100000 miles.
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