Before I leave TTAC, I will find and publish the list of GM dealers culled during the “transformation” from Old GM to New GM. In sworn Congressional testimony, GM’s CEO Fritz Henderson promised—begrudgingly—to provide the list of dead dealers trading to Senator Jay Rockefeller. This on the same occasion that Henderson pledged that New GM would be completely transparent to its new owners (the U.S. taxpayer). Post-hearing, Rockefeller’s office refuses to talk to me about the list; they no longer answer my calls. So either Rockefeller received the list of GM’s dead dealers from the nationalized automaker and suppressed it, or GM reneged on its promise to provide the 411. CNN’s Chris Isadore and others in the MSM couldn’t give a shit. They see the list as proprietary information critical to GM’s competitiveness. I see this as a travesty. GM and its political cronies are withholding critical information from consumers considering GM products. Consumers who own the company. So . . . I’m getting close.
Here’s a link to a GM dealer locator website stocked with only the dealers who will make the cut. [Thanks to you-know-who-you-are] If a GM dealer ISN’T on this list, it’s dead.
Unfortunately, I don’t have the number crunchers needed to compare existing GM dealers with this list of survivors. And what’s the bet this website will be “modified” within hours of this post? Not to worry. If I have anything to say about it, the truth will out.
“What’s the frequency, Kenneth?”
“Kenneth, what is the frequency?”
RF – That would be Senator JAY Rockefeller. Just sayin’
Sure enough, Avenue Chevrolet in Batavia, IL, Crossroads Chevy/Buick in West Chicago, and Al Piemonte Cadillac in St. Charles, IL are missing from the new car sales list, but all three are on the service list.
I knew about Avenue Chevy (see here), but the other two were news to me. I happened to drive past Crossroads last Saturday — dealer was open but lot was nearly empty. Piemonte is allegedly to become a Chrysler/Dode/Jeep store.
Interesting. You can use the regular locate a dealer tool on GM sites like chevrolet.com to find the list of all dealers in your area, then compare it to the link provided here by Robert to figure out which local dealers are the walking dead.
Using this method I found that Carl Chevrolet in San Jose, CA seems to be one of the walking dead. Then I went to Carl’s online inventory and see that they only show eight new vehicles in stock, another sure sign of them being in wind-down mode. Carl sure has a lot of used cars and trucks for sale though! Probably they are going to try to soldier on as a used car and service operation.
baabthesaab
D’oh! I remember how Nelson met his end, too. Eddy’s fixed it.
Let’s see?
You don’t live in the Senator’s state, and TTAC is a Canadian Company. Is that correct?
Quit wasting US taxpayers money and go club a seal or something.
Q: How will I be impacted if I currently own a HUMMER, Saab, Saturn or Pontiac?
A: GM has entered into a Memo of Understanding (MOU) with buyers for all three brands, and we hope these brands will continue to operate under new ownership. We will advise all customers as soon as those plans are finalized but those brand’s dealers are in operation today and GM fully backs the warranty on all such vehicles.
From the Q@A section of the site.
There’s that Hope again we hear so much about lately.
Does truth change if you don’t live in a Senators state? If a Juniper falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
So either Rockefeller received the list of GM’s dead dealers from the nationalized automaker and suppressed it, or GM reneged on its promise to provide the 411.
Or they’re just not returning your calls. But that wouldn’t make for much fresh ink…
The fact is that based on this site, we know which dealers are dead and which aren’t. The other fact is that local media have reported on which dealers got the bad letter this summer, so while there’s no master list per se, it’s well known which dealers are dead.
That sounds like a fair bit of transparency to me, RF.
Juniper :
September 29th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Let’s see?
You don’t live in the Senator’s state, and TTAC is a Canadian Company. Is that correct?
Quit wasting US taxpayers money and go club a seal or something.
————————————
The Canadian government (taxpayer) matched 20% of the US bail out of GM/Chrysler.
So, the average Canadian has equal, if not double, the right to get information from GM.
Let’s see?
You don’t live in the Senator’s state, and TTAC is a Canadian Company. Is that correct?
Quit wasting US taxpayers money and go club a seal or something.
Ok, well then unless MY senator votes on a tax then I guess I don’t have to pay it. Or unless MY representative votes for a law I don’t have to obey it. Or if YOUR representative votes for something stupid then it applies to you.
wsn
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The Canadian government (taxpayer) matched 20% of the US bail out of GM/Chrysler.
So, the average Canadian has equal, if not double, the right to get information from GM.
Then they should contact the Canadian Govt. and do so.
GS650G
No that is not what I said.
If you want information from the govt. contact your own Rep or Senator. That is their job.
don’t contact one that does not represent you and then bitch when you don’t get an answer. Unless your goal was to be able to bitch when you don’t get an answer.
This list has been around for a while. Just a few notes about it (so that you don’t falsely think your hometown dealer is staying open):
1) All Pontiac stores remain on the “new GM” dealers list since the wind-downs aren’t the same as the wind-downs given to Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac dealers.
2) Let’s not forget that hundreds of Saab, Cadillac, and Hummer stores have already locked the doors this year, and these brands can’t even be searched on teh dealer locator.
3) All dealers with rejected Sales and Service agreements are still shown on the service site. Many rejected dealers will continue service and warranty work, probably even after the new cars are all gone…
The media reported on the letters being sent out and reported on those dealerships that fessed up to receiving the letters, but the list was not public, IIRC.
Looks like my local dealer will carry on with Chevrolet but is losing its Cadillac franchise. Is this common?
What happened to the days when we used to moan about the bloated dealer networks that plagued the Big 3?
Yes, many Chevy – Cadillac dealers are losing the Cadillac marque. As far as per capita closings go throughout the dealer network, Cadillac seems to be losing the largest percentage of dealerships. Even large-ish metro areas are losing their Cadillac stores.
In a way, it will get the Cadillac network more in line with Lexus, Acura, Volvo, and the brands that “NewCadillac” will compete with.
I bet the number of dead dealers is much higher than the number GM initially projected. I would guess that a lot of dealers refused to sign participation agreements, or requested and obtained a wind-down agreement.
This is like being culled from the passenger list on the Titanic. Maybe the culled should count themselves lucky that the bleeding has stopped and go with the future of America, open up a Geely/Chery/GWM dealership and they can sell for a government run company too-with a future. As they say in investments, ‘the first loss is the best loss.’
Juniper :
September 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Then they should contact the Canadian Govt. and do so.
————————
A Canadian investor has the right to access US company information directly (as much as an American investor could), without going through the Canadian government. That’s always been the case.
Juniper :
September 29th, 2009 at 11:47 am
GS650G
No that is not what I said.
If you want information from the govt. contact your own Rep or Senator. That is their job.
don’t contact one that does not represent you and then bitch when you don’t get an answer. Unless your goal was to be able to bitch when you don’t get an answer.
————-
Your argument would stand if it is city mayors that we are talking about. You can’t complain a NY problem to the LA mayor, because his is not paid by NY taxpayers.
But all congress people and senator are paid by the federal budget. Even though they may have a priority for their constituents, they are ultimately responsible for the entire nation: people who voted for them, people who didn’t vote for them and those not in their electoral colleges.
If they want to dodge such responsibilities, please make sure they are not paid on the federal payroll and instead paid by people who voted for them.
If a Cadillac dealer has 2010 SRX’s in stock, do you think they will still be around? The dealer, not the SRX’s.
Hmmmmmm. If this is accurate then Thoroughbred Chevrolet in Lexington, KY is on the DOA list. I was kinda wondering if there was something going on since their inventory has been way, way down the past couple of weeks. They managed to get wiped out pretty good during C4C, but they haven’t had any new inventory delivered in awhile, at least not that I could see.
It’s too bad. They were pretty decent as far as customer service and all that goes. Their body shop did a hell of a good job fixing a Beretta I had that was rearended while parked in front of my house. The staff and salesfolks weren’t “Honda” caliber by any means, but they were good for a domestic dealership. (Talk abaout a backhanded compliment!)
I bought my S-10 from them and was going to give them first crack at selling me a Camaro in 2011. It also sucks because the other Chevy dealer in town is staffed by a bunch of jerks and I swore that I would never darken their door again as a serious customer after the way I was treated when I was looking for the S-10 that I eventually bought at Thoroughbred. Guess I’ll be going to Richmond, Paris, or Georgetown when I finally get ready to buy.
Well, as I said, the US of A is going Commie.
Of course, it won’t become the US of SR overnight. But it’s gradually on it way, if the trend is not corrected.
Obviously by needing $50billion to keep running, the capitalist method wasn’t too successful.
Your point?
You need service or sales at a GM store? Go to the website and punch in your zip code. Thats it. What is the hubub over who is closing? Is it me or is this a non issue?
The kerfuffle here is not about whether or not GM should or shouldn’t close dealers. (It should. And it should have a long time ago.) It’s about transparency.
When Chrysler closed dealers, it released a list of culled stores to the pubic. And rightly so. Customers who didn’t want to buy from a dealer slated for extinction could make an informed choice.
When GM closed it dealers, it kept the information secret. We OWN GM. That ain’t right.
I would guess GM was hesitant to release the list out of respect to the dealers that were scheduled to wind down. But I guess if the public demanded to know who was going bye bye GM should cooperate.
We OWN GM
Technically we don’t, the treasury owns whatever % of GM, the treasury is basically an incorporation of the federal government, which in itself is an incorporated entity. We do not own it, we elect the people who run it and fund it (and in reality it returns much more than is being given through debt) and in return it provides services/laws that would not otherwise exist without its existance and agree to follow said laws in return for those services, basically on a contractual basis (the constitution).
And this is a synopsis of what was taught in early 80’s elementary school in Texas.
I meant would that be a clue that the dealer would still be around?
Trying again….If a Cadillac dealer had 2010 models in stock such as SRX’s, would that be a clue that that dealer would not be on the “dead” list.
Dave M. :
September 29th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Obviously by needing $50billion to keep running, the capitalist method wasn’t too successful.
Your point?
——-
The capitalist method didn’t need $50B to keep [GM] running, it didn’t need to keep GM running at all.
Spending $50B on GM is the Commie way.
I don’t see any reason why GM would not release this information. It’s hardly a sensitive trade secret when anyone can use their own eyes to see which dealerships are staying open and which are not. But following your argument to its logical conclusion, GM should be “transparent” with all of its genuinely sensitive competitive information because we “own” them. Does that serve the interests of the taxpayers/shareholders, or does it simply make it impossible for GM to succeed (unlikely as that may be)?
The capitalist method didn’t need $50B to keep [GM] running, it didn’t need to keep GM running at all.
Spending $50B on GM is the Commie way.
Darn Bush Bailout! You can’t trust those Commie Republicans..
You mean that Bush just gave the cash to GM with no strings attached… he wouldn’t do that would he… He did? Oh never mind.
RF: On the link you gave in the Browse FAQ in the middle
“Q: Can I find out exactly which GM dealerships will be closed?
A: GM is not publishing a list of the GM dealerships whose Sales and Service Agreements will not be renewed out of respect for the confidentiality of that dealership’s information. If you have questions, simply contact your dealership.”
zdriver:
Trying again….If a Cadillac dealer had 2010 models in stock such as SRX’s, would that be a clue that that dealer would not be on the “dead” list.
_________________________________________
Having 2010 models in stock is a good sign. If they are still getting boatloads of 2010 models, it is probably a sign they will stay around.
Many dealers of all GM brands received some 2010 models simply because of the Equinox, Terrain, Camaro, and SRX being early 2010s. Even some wind-down dealers got dozens of these models.
If all they have are SRXs and they receive no 2010 CTS and CTS SportWagons soon, it is probably bad, bad news. One of my friends from b-school is from a car dealer family who is losing their Chevy franchise. They still received a handful of Equinox and about a dozen Camaros. So, it could go either way.
Best to ask the dealer, or use the link posted above.
Robert Farago :
September 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
When GM closed it dealers, it kept the information secret. We OWN GM. That ain’t right.
All due respect, RF, you posted a site where the “secret” is revealed, and the media has been publishing the names of dead dealers for quite some time now. The Denver Post published the names of every GM dealer in Colorado that was gettin the axe.
This isn’t much of a secret.
Agreed, GM should release a list, but I think you’re making a Woodward and Bernstein-sized stink about a ‘secret’ that isn’t much of a secret at all.
wsn :
September 29th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Spending $50B on GM is the Commie way.
I don’t think the definition I learned in poli sci quite matches yours.
GM runs a website called http://www.gmdealerlocator.com
Check it out!
Oh no! I now only have 5 Chevy dealers within 10 miles of me.
With Pontiac going away and Saturn being sold, I only have two Buick/GMC dealers from which to buy the same platform from.
Only 7 dealers to sell me the same cars, within 10 miles. What’s wrong with this picture?
mtypex: GM runs a website called http://www.gmdealerlocator.com/
Check it out!
I did check it out, and got a good chuckle from the opening page – before I entered any information, mind you:
“We apologize for the inconvenience. The dealer you have selected is no longer in business. Please select one of the logos below to find the dealer closest to you.”
Yeah, the GM dealer websites are kind of sloppy sometimes. The sites are designed by Cobalt Co., out of Seattle, who one the bid to design to iMR (in Market Retail) program a few years back. They don’t always convey things as the General would like…
Living out in (not-quite-the-)middle of nowhere, within 10 miles I have:
4 Chevy dealerships
2 Buick dealerships
3 GMC dealerships
2 Pontiac dealerships
1 Cadillac dealership
1 Hummer dealership
1 Saab
3 dodge
3 Ford dealerships
3 Lincoln dealerships
3 Mercury dealerships
0 Volvo (nearest is 17 miles)
2 toyota
2 honda
1 Subaru
2 vw
to me, it looks like the domestics are still somewhat over-represented.
Rockefeller is a lame, pathetic jerk, born with a silver spoon to his granddad’s billions, and carpetbagged his way to be a senator from the poorest state, WV, whose other Dem senator is that worthless Klansman Windbag King of Pork Byrd… and after all the billions we the taxpayers have poured in that state for Byrd’s personal promotion (all the useless pork projects bear his name), WV is just as poor as before all this.
FreedMike :
September 29th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Spending $50B on GM is the Commie way.
I don’t think the definition I learned in poli sci quite matches yours.
———–
Well, by strict definitions, the former USSR, and China before reform were not Commies either.
When I say “spending $50B on GM is the Commie way”, I meant that’s what the not-so-Commie USSR would have done.
wsn :
September 30th, 2009 at 10:28 am
When I say “spending $50B on GM is the Commie way”, I meant that’s what the not-so-Commie USSR would have done.
The Soviets would have spent $50 billion to keep a private enterprise in business? Hardly. They’d have simply marched in with guns and taken the place over, and forced them to make tanks, or washing machines, or whatever else the Politburo deemed as the product du jour.
And under “pure” communism, GM would have been a government-owned company to begin with, so no bail out would have been needed.
I think you need to bone up on your history.
Autosavant:
Hey! My sister lives in WV. Actually, it’s even worse than you said, just don’t tell her I said that.
I love it whenever something I do hits the media. Yours truly is the source of the list which was posted here first:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/remembering_retail/message/22169
boyphenom666@aol.com
GM is either dumb, or they did this on purpose.