TTAC Commentator Dror writes:
I own a 2006 Mazda 3, hatch 2.3 liter 5 speed A/T. I bought the car new, I have 45k miles now, car drives very well and I tend to follow maintenance schedule as the book suggest. My concern is that there is no schedule for A/T fluid change, what does it mean? Don’t ever change it, or let the dealer decide for you?
If it’s up to the dealer, I’d spend ridiculous amount of money on stupid things like “the 30k service” that is known to car dealers only, but they never suggest anything like that when drop by every 3 months/3k miles for oil. I live in NYC and that car spend significant time of it’s life on Manhattan streets: I would like to know if anyone knows the answer, I really don’t like to mess with my A/T if I don’t need to.
Sajeev replies:
Never let the dealer decide: though these guys seem honest, I once saw a Dodge dealer convince a friend to perform differential fluid changes every 15k miles. I told her to stop it, but you can only lead a horse to water. Whatever.
Now, you live in NYC (i.e., stop-and-go traffic) and have more than an occasional heat wave. Both items are bad news for transmission fluid. I’d change the fluid on a regular basis: sealed for life transmissions are a gimmick, a joke that should (fingers crossed) pass as short term leasing and easy credit gets harder to find. So do not RTFM, because you love your car. Or hate it and have no alternative. Or want to pass good karma to the next owner: it’s all good.
If you really love your car, get an external transmission cooler for maximum fluid life. But even I think that’s overkill in this application.
[Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com]
They probably feel they’re making enough money off of you for coming back every 3000 miles for oil changes and don’t want to scare you off…
On a serious note, your manual should at least specify intervals to check it (then you can replace based on the actual condition).
I have AT, PS, 4×4 transfer case and other ‘lifetime’ fluids changed every 3-4 years or 30-40K miles. Figure by that time they are either used up or the chemicals inside have lost their effectiveness and changing the fluids is cheap insurance at that point.
Change every 60k or five years if it’s a ‘long life’ fluid.
Change every 30k or two years if it’s a regular fluid.
Change every year if it’s a FWD minivan or Honda hybrid. Certain models with a history of tranny issues should also be changed annually as well.
Many would consider this overkill but with a manual extractor you can change the fluids and the long-term cost would be reduced even further. The cost for a good one is about $100. I’ve literally had a Camry that shifted like it was brand new for 12 years and 240k by following option B and a manual excavator.
Finally if you’re fortunate enough to have a RWD V8 with a tranny cooler or have a transmission used in far heavier applications, don’t worry about it. Crown Vic PI’s, Caprices, and V8 Camaros all fall into this category.
Hope this helps….
If you really love your car, get an external transmission cooler for maximum fluid life. But even I think that’s overkill in this application.
It might not be. In bump-and-grind traffic his AT’s going to shift a lot and get pretty hot. A cooler never hurt.
Change every year if it’s a FWD minivan or Honda hybrid. Certain models with a history of tranny issues should also be changed annually as well.
I would add “any V6 Honda” to that list and possibly most Chryslers and a few recent Volvos as well. I’d also add the recommendation for a transmission cooler to anyone buying a minivan or crossover (or something heavy), or anyone who tows anything. The mass and power of a modern car will take it’s toll.
Finally, I’d add that if you get this done, make sure that they use a) the right fluid, b) don’t over- or under-fill the transmission and c) if the transmission has a magnet to trap filings, that they clean those out before flushing. I’ve witnessed a), had someone do b) to me and was told about c) by the nice mechanic who caught b).
If it’s on the dealer’s dime, it’s lifetime fluid.
If it’s on our dime, replace fluid every 30,000 miles.
Lifetime fluid, my arse…
If the Mazda3 had a history of A/T-related issues (it doesn’t), I could see being proactive and changing the fluid out at 60K. Or, conversely, if you were planning to do an “Irv Gordon” with it, sure.
But for most people who trade in their car every 4-5 years, it would be a waste of money to do it (especially at the stealership). If it were me, I’d stick with the Mazda maintenance schedule, watch the Mazda3 forums for A/T-related posts and, as a side note, start doing my own oil changes (w/better-than-dealer bulk oil & OEM filters).
Now for those of us that buy late-model used cars…yeah, an A/T drain & fill (but not a flush) is good investment.
I can’t remember the details, but I seem to remember reading on this site about one case where same transmission was used in two applications (Volvo and Nissan maybe?). Anyway, one recommended oil changes for their transmission and the other stated that it was a lifetime fill and did not need oil changes.
The automaker that recommended the “lifetime fluid” in this transmission had a much higher transmission failure rate.
Does your Mazda have a drain plug? If it does, then it’s very easy to change out the fluid every 30k miles yourself. Probably you will spend $20 or less. That seems ridiculously cheap when you consider the expensive of rebuilding a transmission or buying a replacement one.
As has been commented about BMW’s lifetime fluids. They are lifetime, the transmission and diff’s lifetime, not the life of owning the car.
I would also do every year. Mileage really isn’t a good indicator for you since in New York traffic, you might put more wear on your trans in a mile, than the average guy puts on in 100 miles. Depending on how long you want to keep the car, the external cooler might also not be overkill. Now be sure to use the correct fluid. Your car uses Mazda ATF MV. There are fluids that meet this specification, but not the regular Dexron 3 fluid. Looking it up online I found many fluids, such as Mobil’s multi vehicle ATF
I have seen many VWs come in on a flat-bed after having their fluid flushed at 15 min oil change places, and they flushed it with generic Dex 3/ Mercon fluid.
The the word “lifetime” in manufacturer speak means “warranty period.”
If you plan to own your vehicle past the warranty period then you need to do proper maintenance – which has absolutely nothing to do with what the manufacturer recommends.
In an ideal world, manufacturers would design cars to explode at 1 mile over warranty. While many manufacturers boast about cars lasting 2,3,400k miles, they are only capitalizing on statistical anomalies. Nobody stays in business (much less “grows”) by having cars last.
I have a lifetime gasoline fill. It’ll continue to fuel the car fine until the car doesn’t work anymore, at which time my dealer recommends I replace it.
Also, your car does have a drain plug, so a change of fluid should be very easy.
Hi all,
I have a similar issue and question with my car. I own a Peugeot 308Turbo A/T and the maintenance book says nothing about transmission fluid changes.
I live in Malaysia, where it’s dead hot and humid all year long. Furthermore, Kuala Lumpur traffic is oftentimes a bumper-to-bumper crawl.
Any ideas on the Peugeot transmission? Should I change my fluid every year? I’ve been driving the car for 4 months now and the panoramic glass roof is a beauty!
Thanks for the advice and responses!
Depending on how much time you spend in Bumper to bumber traffic, I would say every 1-2 years. If you set off in the morning, and you spend an hour in traffic, and the same in the evening, I would do it every year. If you only spend your last couple of miles, (or kms in your case) in traffic, 2 years will be fine.
Here are the comments on the transmission fluid analysis I had done on my 2002 Audi A8L’s “lifetime” transmission fluid. At 43,000 miles, it was not looking good. The A8 has a ZF transmission similar to the units used by BMW. The fluid is Esso LT 71141. Conclusion: Change the fluid!
EQUIPMENT MAKE: Transmission OIL USE INTERVAL: 43,000 Miles
EQUIPMENT MODEL: Audi Automatic OIL TYPE & GRADE: Auto Transmission Fluid
UNIT FUEL TYPE: Not Applicable MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 0 qts
ADDITIONAL INFO:
As you can see wear is high in this sample of used ATF. The high wear metals are likely
from wear-in at the clutch plating. This oil is the same as the virgin sample you sent in (compare the
additives) so we don’t think anyone has put the wrong oil in your Audi’s transmission. We recommend
changing the oil due to the wear metals, which make it abrasive. Lifetime fluid? Well, if they’ll give you
a lifetime warranty on the transmission, go for it!
I replaced the auto trans fluid on my ’04 Mazda 6 5AT at 45K miles based on the advice of my local indy mechanic, where people seek refuge from the injustices of our local Mazda dealer when the warranty expires. This followed my observation that the fluid replacement isn’t mentioned anywhere in my owners manual. He asked me whether I was planning to sell the car soon or else “drive it till the wheels fall off”. I answered the latter, and that was his recommendation. Actually at 45K he said it was “well past due” for a Mazda auto tranny and he recommended every 30K going forward.
Mazda auto tranny’s have horrendous reliability records. I’m not 100% sold on changing the fluid, being that sometimes it does more harm than good. However, I imagine if you change it every 2 years or so you eliminate the varnish that eventually builds up and holds everything together. So that may be the way to go.
NN : Mazda auto tranny’s have horrendous reliability records.
If so, change the fluid bi-annually regardless of mileage. The trannies can’t be that bad: case in point are the handful of 3.8L AXOD Taurii out there that get coolant and ATF changes every other year. Without question.
Those grenading Ford trannies and head gasket eating 3.8L V6s are (laugh if you must) quite good if you go severe on your fluid changes. It isn’t until the fluid gets neglected that they fail. (And boy do they!)
This could be fatal for your transmission if the fluid was never changed you’ve run the miles up and over heated it on occasion. When going for a trans service, a flush will be recommended first in most cases. Death soon after.
All previous comments are hearsay or communal reinforcement. Discarding that, I am unaware of any evidence that you need to change transmission fluids during a car’s economic life.
My ’02 Maxima owners manual service schedule says nothing about transmission fluid changes under non-severe driving conditions, so I’ll bet owners don’t regularly change it. Yet Consumer Reports’s “Transmission Major” reliability for this car is “Excellent” for ’99 – ’08 except ’04 which has “Very Good.”
Part of the Maxima’s appeal is performance–it’s not going to be driven like Grandma’s Grand Marquis. If transmission fluid changes meant anything, I think it would show up here.
Aren Cambre : My ‘02 Maxima owners manual service schedule says nothing about transmission fluid changes under non-severe driving conditions, so I’ll bet owners don’t regularly change it. Yet Consumer Reports’s “Transmission Major” reliability for this car is “Excellent” for ‘99 – ‘08 except ‘04 which has “Very Good.”
Given what little we know about CR’s testing, I’m not swayed by that. Transmission fluid changes are relevant to those who want far more than 100k of life: especially if they live in ATF killing climates/traffic conditions.
If CR sampled those 1999 Maximas last year, with their current batch of owners, I’d concede the point. Somehow I don’t see that happening.
All previous comments are hearsay or communal reinforcement. Discarding that, I am unaware of any evidence that you need to change transmission fluids during a car’s economic life.
A lot depends on duty cycle. A heavier vehicle—especially one that has to shift a lot—will heat ATF to the point where it starts to break down. This starts a nasty little positive feedback loop of poor lubrication causing more heat, degrading the ATF further, etc, etc until “Check Gearbox” lights up and/or you can’t shift.
Minivans, by nature of their usage pattern and weight, suffer this fate more often than others. They carry a lot of weight, suffer a lot of stop-and-go, and are often built from a powertrain designed for a car a thousand pounds lighter. And while this really is a design deficiency, changing the ATF really does help head the problem off by preventing the initial breakdown.
I really wish that modern automobiles used a little of that computing power to monitor fluid health proactively. It’s nice that it happens with oil, but it would be good to see it happen with coolant, ATF and such as well.
I agree with Steven Lang’s schedule, but would add, if it’s got a regular fluid in it, upgrade it to a long-life fluid if possible. You may have to drain and fill several times to get most of the fluid exchanged, but then you’re good for 60k rather than 30k.
However often you choose to change the fluid, make certain to use the correct fluid, and only the correct fluid. Not only are the usual con artists (Scamsoil, et al.) on hand to babble about their one be-all-do-all-replace-all fluid (at $OMFG/quart, natch), but there are also additives on the market claiming to “convert” Dexron into various other fluids. Fact is, there’s no such conversion possible. Modern automatics are a great deal more sensitive to just about every characteristic and performance aspect of transmission fluid; “close enough” isn’t.
For many years, Dexron was the de facto universal auto trans fluid, used in just about everyone’s automatics with the exception of some Fords and a few imports nobody drove. That’s no longer the case. Use whatever kind of fluid your car’s manufacturer specifies, unless and until it is officially superseded by another fluid, at which time use the newly-specified fluid.
Thank you all for your comments, I guess I do need to replace the fluid, just for fun, I would call Mazda to ask why it’s not in the car manual, the car is still under warranty, so why not?
dror
I have a good deal of experience with this exact car/transmission. It is VERY HARD on transmission fluid. Granted, mine is being driven in Texas where it is rather hot… Within the first 20k miles, the fluid had turned from that nice clear out of the bottle red color to a brown-ish murky color. I drained via the drainplug and refilled with ~3 quarts of Mobil 1 ATF. Drained and refilled with another 3 quarts at the next change interval. Ever since, I’ve been draining and refilling every 3-4 oil changes, or whenever it takes on a brown-ish cast.
I would suggest you go for just a drain/refill with a high quality fluid every 20-30k, and skip the full system flushes.
A lot depends on duty cycle.…
A truer statement has never been made. So many people think that mileage alone is what is important. A vehicle that is driven on a (mostly) daily basis and logs 3500 miles a year is going to have an extremely high rate of wear at 25,000 miles. A “garage Queen” is a different story. I put less than 70K on one of my cars in 14 years, and the car was never used as a commuter or on a daily basis. It does go for spirited drives, and for the occasional road trip (would love to hit the tail of the dragon). As long as the sitting period is not too long, atrophy is not an issue. The car looks like it is three years old…