I recently clocked a billboard offering passersby a Mercedes E-Class for $599 a month. I called the Mercedes dealer in question. Sorry, can’t find the paper, I have to call you back. I’ll wait. Oh, here it is! Here what is? A rear-wheel-drive E-Class luxury car. Which one? A rear-wheel drive E-Class luxury car. Yes, which model? E350. Options? A choice of metallic paint (as long as it’s white or black) and heated front seats. How much down? $5,509. How many months? It’s a 39-month lease, 10k miles per year. $599 a month all in? Plus tax. How much tax? $42 a month. Do you have one in stock? I’m sure we do but we can get one. Uh-huh. It’s not a the worst deal I’ve ever seen but . . . I wonder how much it would cost me to lease that Maybach that’s been in their showroom since 1909. Meanwhile, where the hell is Darwin? By now, anyone stupid enough to fall for a low low monthly payment come-on should be in debtor’s prison. Which would force the dealers perpetuating the sales technique into receivership, where the bank could re-fi their biz. I mean, $1 mil would only be $1666 a month over 50 years. Plus interest, of course. And handling fees.
Sheesh, $5509 down on a lease. And if you total the car the next day, you just lost $5509. All lease payments should be advertised with zero down.
segfault:
I’m with you on there….but how would they lure poor schleps looking to “move on up” into the showroom?
And even if the vehicle wasn’t totaled you would still lose the money at the end of the lease.
New E 350 = 53,200
3 year old E 350 = 22,700
599×39+5509 = 28,870.
53,200-22,700-28,870= -1603.
So, not even including the time value of money Mercedes is going to lose $1603 on this deal.
Sounds like a hell of a deal to me.
And even if the vehicle wasn’t totaled you would still lose the money at the end of the lease.
You won’t lose – Daimer Benz is the one taking a bath on this deal – to the tune of several thousand dollars.
Mercedes USA appears to be among the absolute best at keeping information away from customers.
All U.S. dealers now have to use “mercedescenter.com” (MCC) addresses to keep the branding secure. Google loves this and makes it hard to find any other non-mother-ship website for a Benz dealer.
Only problem is that that MCC does not allow any searching nor displaying of new inventory. If you can’t find a parent/sibling/alternate website for a Benz store, you have to hope that they list on cars.com, vehix or autotrader. Of course no one actually bothers to fully list options on the third party sites, so all the inventory becomes impossible to qualify. Also, no leasing information is clear anywhere. Compared to BMW they get an F in this regards. Heck, Subaru does a better job detailing leasing info.
Not that they have anything I’d want, but you have to give it to the Detroit 3 as regards inventory searching. You can quickly check inventory on any model across local dealerships from each manufacturers’ website.
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ASIDE: 2009 E class (other than AMG) have $10,000 sitting on the trunk right now.
Regardless of what brand or model you want, and regardless of your budget, even if it is $50k and not just $10k,
The best and smartest policy is to stay WAY away from any Dealers,
and always buy your cars form their owners.
Where did today’s story about used car values go? Why was it deleted? Is it because I was right?
The best and smartest policy is to stay WAY away from any Dealers, and always buy your cars form their owners.
Buying someone else’s lemon would soon disabuse you of that notion. If you’ve been lucky – well just be thankful for that.
I thought you already bought a car Robert?
It was, I think, an accidental repost:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hammer-time-avalon/
“Author: jmo
Comment:
The best and smartest policy is to stay WAY away from any Dealers, and always buy your cars form their owners.
Buying someone else’s lemon would soon disabuse you of that notion. If you’ve been lucky – well just be thankful for that.”
Read my post carefully. I did not say “BLINDLY” buy from the owners. If you are auto illiterate, bring a friend with you. Or hire a mechanic. AND do NOT shop for a Maserati. For shit POS, you have no hope. A Colleague unwisely bought a Quattroporte BRAND NEW and had to return it after only WEEKS, when it spent more time in the shop than on the road, and was given a brand new one under the LEMON LAWS.
But if you did not work hard for your money, and want to throw it out the window, or sacrifice it to the gods of depreciation and dealer profit, be my guest. I can wait until your car is off-lease or whatever.
And it is not a question of Affording any car. Even if, as many do, you CAN afford to go to your ROlls dealer and ask him to wrap a dozen or so new Phantoms, it is not a sign of econ literacy if you think that you also HAVE to.
I did not say “BLINDLY” buy from the owners. If you are auto illiterate, bring a friend with you. Or hire a mechanic.
Can you really learn that much for a cursory visual inspection of a late model car?
“Can you really learn that much for a cursory visual inspection of a late model car?”
Again, I do not remember using these terms and words in my reply.
Even if you do not use a mechanic, (I did not in either of my two purchases from the owner), there is a ton of signs that can tell you a lot.
Just one tiny example, in both cases, the owners used the cars to commute 40 and 60 miles daily (from Ann Arbor to Dearborn and Flint respectively). They would be damned fools not to keep them in top shape, esp. now that Michigan has the highest unemployment in the nation and these two did not have lifetime employment guarantees.
The two cars could not be more different, one was an elegant 5-sp Honda Accord coupe with 69k miles, a 3.5 year old car, that I kept for another 14 years before donating it to charity last year. The second was (is) a “magnificent 7” BMW 740iL 98 ueber-sedan, which I bought in 05 for $10.5k in perfect shape (even detailed inside and out). It cost new $65k minimum, but if you want to buy new NOW you’d pay more than $100k.
If you want some hints how to enjoy the $89.5k you will save, let me know. In fact, you will save more than $90k, since you can find 98 7s today for less than $10k.
jmo:
You do not hire a mechanic to do a cursory visual inspection. For very little money you can get a mechanic to check the fluids, the compression. The right mechanic will know what to look for.
Better still– if you find a good mechanic for a type of car, they will know when one of the cars they service is for sale. For expensive cars, owners are often very savvy about where they take their cars and often avoid the dealer. That can be a great situation because you will know about the service record.
I do think you can learn a lot about a car from looking at it and driving it, if you know what to look for. You also have to look up the history online or with the DMV.
There are many savvy ways to buy cars. Buying used is one of them.
Meanwhile, where’s the hell is Darwin?
H. L. Mencken has been trumping Darwin ever since the age of modern marketing and the decline of math education in America.
You won’t lose – Daimer Benz is the one taking a bath on this deal – to the tune of several thousand dollar
In an ideal situation yes, but how many people actually decide at the end of their lease to purchase?
And on a side note, geez these things depreciate like rocks.
Some scumbag dealer just sold my niece a new Kia SUV with $0 down and a 72 mo. note. She’s a 22 YO student with a part time job.
She’s estatic…………..
And on a side note, geez these things depreciate like rocks.
Well, it is important to note that the $53,200 number is pure fiction. With an invoice of $49,700 and $8,000 on the hood, you just might be able to get one out the door for $40k.
Some scumbag dealer just sold my niece a new Kia SUV with $0 down and a 72 mo. note. She’s a 22 YO student with a part time job.
What’s the interest rate?
I would be interested in a thread/post about the best way to buy a car used. I keep hearing “have a mechanic look at it” but it would be great to get a sense of a) What that means exactly and b) how much one might expect that to cost.
For example, I found a 64 1/2 mustang for sale for $3K from a coworker. I had him follow me to a mechanic and I paid some $100 to have him look at it. He came back with a long list of things wrong with it, estimating something like $3K more to fix it all. I passed. Thing was, I didn’t have a clear sense of what was expected for a car that old (trusted my gut) and it cost me $100 to just get an opinion! One couldn’t do that for more than 2-3 cars w/o it costing too much.
Ideas? Is there a post on this?
PS Couple things:
When I was looking at the 740iL, I test-drove it twice, I was really looking for the 5- or 6-speed 5 series (97-03), but the 7 was only 3 miles from home. If a good 5 was 100 miles from home, I would think twice before bothering to go see it, and probably would not go at all.
While I did not hire any mechanics, but looked at the car and its mechanicals myself, I did go to the local BMW dealer, who had records on all repairs done on this 7 since it had about 18k miles (have no record of the first 18k), and they printed it out for me for free, it went on and on, and many of the repairs were under warraqnty and utterly frivolous, as a $1,700 replacement of the navigation screen etc, just because of a complaint that “there was a line visible across the screen”!
How to Buy a Used Car by Steven Lang
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4
Sometimes dealers can have “good deals”, but it is really because the consumers do not favor a specific type or size vehicle because of current high or low gas prices, and a few months later your bargain priced buy could sell for much more.
Other times luxury cars (esp. desperate car makers like Jaguar and others) have very attractive leases.
Also, I assume most of you know that dealers do not make most of their $ selling new cars (unless they can get away by slapping a $5,000 surcharge on a prius III or sth), but from selling Used cars (hence the infamous “used car salesman” stereotype, and even more from servicing and repairing and from selling overpriced ‘original’ spare parts.
“Certified” used cars is a more recent gimmick, they get a recent year model with low to medium miles, clean it up, perform a “1,500 point inspection (LOL)” and then sell it to unsuspecting buyers for several 1000s more than they would get it without the certification, and maybe $5-10k more than from an owner. (of course they carry some warranty, which is worth something, esp, if it is an unreliable POS)
A couple months ago MB was offering the E lease for about $549 with $0 down at signing. I’m sure that was an attempt to clear inventory for the new 2010 models which are much better at the same msrp.
PennSt8 :
September 10th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
And on a side note, geez these things depreciate like rocks.
oooh yah
Nobody wants to buy a used Mercedes. It’s like they’re only seen as vanity cars, where only the current model will do.
Then there’s the infamous Mercedes reliability issue that sets in after the standard 3 year lease is over.
Sure, I’d love to own a 2002 S600 for $25000.
But there’s the saying “There’s nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes/Porsche/Ferrari/Whatever”
I think dealer maintenance and repair costs on used Mercedes are comparable to other luxury cars of the same price. If you keep that in mind going into the deal, then getting a lightly used car and taking advantage of the massive depreciation is a very good deal. Often you can find Mercedes that are driven less than 4k-6k miles per year. I find these are the best deal with year and condition. My last 4 cars were used and I saved at least 50% off the MSRP for each one. If I didn’t tell anyone, nobody would know they were used.
If you’re stretching just to buy that S600 for $25,000 then that car is not for you.
“I think dealer maintenance and repair costs on used Mercedes are comparable to other luxury cars of the same price.”
The cost for a specific maintenance or repair action may be comparable, but the frequency of such repairs may not.
If they were the same, who would bother to buy the Lexus LS400-430-460? (or, as its nasty critics call it, the Buick LS400-430-460?)
The big 3 here are really the Merc S-class, the BMW 7 series and the Lexus LS460. Audi A8s are way too few to be included, and Jags XJs are even fewer.
The LExus is supposed to be bulletproof reliable, and friends of mine who leased one kept it and put 250,000 trouble-free miles on it.
The BMW was earlier not recommended by COnsumer Reports, but I took a risk, and it paid handsomely.
The MErc may be the least reliable of the three.
(But if you include the Audi and the XJ, it may be better than any of the two. The same friend who had the trouble-free 250k miles on the Lexus, her incorrigible husband leased an XJ8 at the same time, and told me the POS lived up to its infamous reputation, and was returned to the dealer at the end of the lease)
I see viti ads in the newspaper, the only brand (mercedes) and dealer who does reveal prices in ads, and all the cars are used. I used to get angry when I saw them.
Some scumbag dealer just sold my niece a new Kia SUV with $0 down and a 72 mo. note. She’s a 22 YO student with a part time job.
She’s 22 not 12, right? And I assume she went to the dealers of her own free will and signed on the dotted line without being threatened with bodily harm. And she evidently didn’t seek your advice beforehand. So why is he a scumbag? What should he have done, refuse to sell her a car?
@jmo:
“What’s the interest rate?”
I didn’t ask. I knew if I found out the rate (probably double digits) I would have lost it.
@brapoza:
“She’s 22 not 12, right? And I assume she went to the dealers of her own free will and signed on the dotted line without being threatened with bodily harm. And she evidently didn’t seek your advice beforehand. So why is he a scumbag? What should he have done, refuse to sell her a car?”
How about this for a brutally straight answer:
YES, he should NOT have sold her that car.
Gee! What a concept. HUH!?!?
First of all, you can’t tell me the P&I guy didn’t get that loan approved without a LOT of smoke, mirrors, and slight of hand. How do you say “FRAUD” without invoking images of the already corrupt & greedy banking/finance industry?
Secondly: Gee, how about steering her towards a lease on a recently turned in program economy car?
Oh. I’m sorry. I forgot. At 22, she should already know to leave her future first born by the dealer’s showroom door as soon as she went through it.
@Commando : By 22, if you get taken by a dealer, then that’s your own fault. Her parents should have taught her something about personal finances and / or restraint.
I don’t see how a lease would be any better than what she did, at least with a financed sale, she can easily get out of it by selling the car. Though possibly at a loss. With a lease she would be legally obligated to keep paying through the end of the lease term unless she could get someone else to take it over.
Commando,
Yes, she should have got a $14k Kia Soul or similar – but her SUV isn’t really the end of the world. What is her major? – Nursing, Pharmacy, Accounting? If so, she really don’t have that much to worry about.
How about this for a brutally straight answer:
YES, he should NOT have sold her that car.
Oh, I get it, he should be answering to some higher moral authority.
Secondly: Gee, how about steering her towards a lease on a recently turned in program economy car?
Oh. I’m sorry. I forgot. At 22, she should already know to leave her future first born by the dealer’s showroom door as soon as she went through it.
Please, you make it sound like it should be an episode on Law & Order but in fact you’re only making up the script since you were not there. Perhaps he did try to steer her in that direction. She bought the car she wanted, period. Besides, no mention of her responsibility in the affair. It’s entirely someone else’s fault, of course.
@brapoza:
“Besides, no mention of her responsibility in the affair. It’s entirely someone else’s fault, of course.”
One of my biggest gripes is people who always lay the blame on others.
Thanks for the dope slap. I needed that. ; )
Buying a used car today is not what it used to be.
My last handful of cars were bought used, and I had zero issues..
2001 Montero Sport, purchased with 20000 miles, drove it until it had 86000, zero issues.
1997 Eldorado, purchased with 30000 miles, drove it until it had 85000 miles, at 80K I had to have the passenger interior door panel reaffixed, otherwise, zero issues.
1998 Contour SVT, purchased with 180000 miles, drove it until it had 78000 miles, zero issues.
2001 Mazda Miata, purchased with 68000 miles, now it has 80000 miles, still driving it.
2001 Ford Escape XLT, 5-speed, purchased with 20000 miles, drove it until it had 88000 miles, zero issues.
2007 Grand Marquis, purchased with 22000 miles, now it has 93000 miles, at 90000 the electronic temperature control crapped out ($1100 repair, ugh) otherwise, it’s been trouble free.
Our CX-7 on the other hand, purchased new, has been a complete nightmare. At least three times in 30000 miles, it’s had to go in for a loose gas cap….I need to fix my wife.
At any rate, in each case, I purchased the car for many, many thousands less than if I had purchased new. The only thing I missed, was the off gassing of the various adhesives that combine to provide that intoxicating new car smell.
Sorry, I can’t find the edit button. The Contour did not travel backward in time. Though I wish it did. That should have read 18000 not 180K.