Bernie Madoff’s first bogus trade. Richard Nixon’s first fib. Charlie Parker’s first hit of heroin. What do they have in common with this perfectly harmless-looking Pontiac Ventura II? That first little giving in to temptation has a nasty way of turning into a big deadly habit, like GM’s badge engineering. All bad habits have a beginning, but the evidence typically is lost in the haze of history. Not GM’s. Before you sits the proof; the badge-engineering progenitor; the automotive equivalent of finding Humphrey Bogart’s first Lucky Strike butt laying at the curb.
I can’t tell you exactly the behind-the-scenes machinations that led to giving Pontiac a “grill engineered” version of Chevy’s popular Nova in the spring of 1971. But it cracked open a door that was eventually ripped off its hinges after the energy crisis of 1973. Every GM division then rushed through it and jumped into that bottomless cesspool without a second thought. Desperate for smaller cars, Oldsmobile, Buick and even Cadillac soon joined in with Pontiac. The attack of the Chevrolet body snatchers was on.
Presumably, Pontiac had misgivings at how large its Tempest and LeMans had grown from their 1961 compact origins. And by 1970, the continued growth in the small car sector was undeniable. Chevy was getting ready to launch its sub-compact Vega. Pontiac felt left out, and wanted back in. And they had a solution in hand and ready to roll, north of the border: the Acadian.
GM long had a pattern of doing things a little differently in Canada, especially with Pontiac. Canadian Ponchos were hybrids, of a different type. They used Chevrolet chassis, engines and transmission, but Pontiac exteriors. And bore different names too, like Laurentian and Parisienne. GM Canada was the prelude to the badge-engineering main act to come.
At the beginning of the sixties, Pontiac of Canada expected to either get the new 1961 Tempest or a version of the new Corvair as its compact. Instead, it got a grill-engineered version of the 1962 Chevy II, called Acadian. Strictly speaking, it wasn’t a Pontiac, but a separate low-end brand for Canadian Pontiac-Buick dealers to sell.
I remember well first stumbling across one as a kid in Iowa. I had earned an honorary degree in Autology by dint of my car-spotting abilities. But this one threw me; a mildly customized Chevy II? I eventually figured out the limitations of my US-centric viewpoint, and that Canadians must know what they were doing when it came to Chevy IIs and healthcare.
The Acadian was still going in 1971, so all Pontiac had to do was divert a stream of them southwards – or at least a few truckloads of grills. I don’t know where the Ventura II was actually assembled. But it was all Chevy, all the time, right down to the engines. Which marks this as the beginning of another bad habit: the first GM (NA) car with all of its engines from another division: Chevy’s 250 six and 307/350 V8s were on offer in the abbreviated first year. By 1972, the Pontiac 350 V8 was also in the mix. And a couple of years later, the vaunted letters GTO were gracing this Nova clone. Who saw that coming?
End of story. I’m not going talk about this Ventura per se, because I have several real Novas in the can for future Curbside Classics. It’s not like there’s any difference. But I am going to save some equal time for the other Nova-based clones: Apollo, Omega, Phoenix and Skylark; the whole family of dirty little habits.
GM isn’t the only manufacturer that does things a little differently in Canada than in the US. See, e.g., the mildly changed Civic’s Honda has sold under the Acura badge north of the border. I’ve never understood the point of that one.
One of the best cars and money wise, by far one the best car deals deals I ever had was a factory 350 Buick-powered 1975 Ventura Sprint that I bought used, circa 1986. The car was pale yellow with the factory matte black Sprint package striping, Rallye Wheels, hd ‘Sport’ suspension and the interior was finished with a black carpet with white buckets and console, Sport steering wheel and gauge package. In addition,the car was comparatively loaded for a Ventura with AC,PW, PS and PB. When I found the car,it had been abandoned by the owner at a repair shop with a severely blown up engine. In fact the engine damage was so extensive and complete that when it blew, shrapnel from the engine block even took a large chunk out of the the automatic transmission case. Anyway, after tracking down the owner,I bought car ‘as is’ for 200 dollars. Next step – I searched the classified ads and found a 40,000 original mile 1969 Buick Skylark convertible with 350-4bbl & automatic and a severely rusted body and frame for 150 dollars.I swapped the engine and tranny from the Skylark into the Ventura and then stripped and parted and out the remains of the Skylark for a total parts return on that car of 200 dollars. And after stripping the car, I sent the hulk to the scrappers for an additional 75 dollars.Two weeks later,after removing the catalytic converter and fabricating a proper true dual exhaust system,the Ventura became my daily driver for just a bit of labor and a total cash outlay of less then 150 dollars! :)
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PS. – Here’s a YouTube video link to a GM Pontiac dealer propaganda film on the “new” 1971 Ventura.
Till the end, Pontiac in Canada still carried on this trait. Witness the G5 and G3 or whatever the Aveo rip off was…both sold in the great white north long before they came to help lay Pontiac to rest here in the US.
At least it made it to one of the best car chase scenes ever made, in “The Seven-Ups”, though that one was a ’73 model:
At least one of those Pontiac Nova clones was redesigned with a hatchback, so at least it was somehow different… unless there was also a hatchback version of the Nova that I don’t know about.
Mike66 – Yeah, Chevy did have a Nova hatchback. I had thought that the original design of the 70 Nova was to include a “fastback hatch” or something, but my girlfriend owned what she said was a 72 Nove hatch.
Paul, don’t forget the horrid little T2000 Chevette clone. And for the love of God, please don’t show any pictures of the Phoenix. The Ventura is bad enough.
I remember it well, as I was awakening to the thrill and anticipation of driving as my hormones started to stir.
We understood instinctively that these were just grill-job cars. We watched the boom in Toyota and Datsun sales, the gas crisis signalling the death of our beloved 5000 pound luxoliners, and hoped that GM would come up with a second act that redeemed themselves after the unveiling of these rebadges.
So we bought them. Not because they were great -per se, but because we had always bought our cars at the dealers in our towns. We weren’t fooled, but we were just driving these Novasteins until GM could offer us new cars as exciting as they had years earlier. GM had over half the US market. We believed in them.
What we ended up doing however, was enable GM, Ford and Chrysler at a time when we should have kicked their offerings off our driveways. The Big Three didn’t get the message that we were buying them time and that we were not fooled. So, instead of redeeming themselves with the next generation of compact cars, they thought they could just keep doing grill-jobs. If we thought the 1974-77 Nova clones were bad, the refreshed Nova clones signaled to us that GM lost interest in offering us fresh cars.
Take a look at the 1978 Skylarks, the Concours, the Omegas, and the horrific Phoenixes. These cars made the earlier grill-jobs look honest.
So, anticipation was high when the X-bodies were unveiled. We wanted so desperately for them to be what we had been waiting for since 1973. And you know how well that went, right?
When it comes to car shopping, Canadians are cheapskates frugal. This can explain a lot of decisions that automakers make when determining what to sell in Canada, such as offering a tarted-up Civic as an Acura, the Pontiac G3, fullsize 60’s Mopars with slant-6’s as the base engine…..
Civic’s Honda has sold under the Acura badge north of the border. I’ve never understood the point of that one.
Canada is a poorer country than the US.
Canada GDP at PPP = 39,100
US GDP at PPP = $46,900
Couple that with higher taxes and Canadians have less disposable income with which to buy automobiles.
When it comes to car shopping, Canadians are cheapskates frugal.
Not so much frugal as poor (relatively speaking).
What was the turning point with this particular Cheviac? I owned a ’70 Tempest that was virtually identical except the engine to the Chevelle, Skylark, and Cutlass. GM was doing it for most of its history (the classic ’55 Bel Air had other family clones too).
By the way, my ’84 Pontiac T-1000 was different in many ways from the Chevette, mostly interior materials, and was actually quite nice for an entry level price.
They all did it. Tell me the difference between a Duster and a Demon, or a Marquis and an LTD.
That era’s full size Canadian Pontiacs were odd ducks. The wide U.S. Pontiac styling features didn’t look right sitting on the narrow track Chevrolet chassis. Sort of like a kid wearing his father’s overcoat.
Chrysler’s approach was schizophrenic. Fenders and grilles were interchangeable. Dodge badged cars used Plymouth front clips with Dodge rear ends and vice versa. Some had a Plymouth front clip with DeSoto grillwork. The DeSoto Firesweep featured a DeSoto front clip on a Plymouth body. A body shop could make up any model you fancied.
The Canadian Ford Meteor used Ford bodies trimmed using Mercury parts. The Mercury Monarch was a cheaper Lincoln.
That first little giving in to temptation has a nasty way of turning into a big deadly habit, like GM’s badge engineering.
Badge engineering was alive for much longer at GM. I believe the first post-buyout Oldsmobile was a Buick with the wheels a bit further apart and and Olds radiator.
My mom had a 1970 Buick Skylark that I remember as being luxurious and large. She gave it to my Grandpa sometime during the 70’s oil crisis and we had a Chevette Scooter. What a step down that was.
My Uncles put racing stripes on it and I thought it was the coolest looking car in the world. However, I didn’t know until reading this article that it was a re-badged Chevy Nova!?!?
@jmo,
I guess my point is that I’ve never understood why anyone would buy the Acura version instead of just buying the Civic. Same for the Lexus ES instead of the Camry, any number of badge engineered GM’s, etc.
I remember building a “B” Cheviac somewhere around 83. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think we shipped to the US with a Parisienne badge. I believe it was the first and only time it was ever done.
@gardiner westbound Your correct to a point. When the “B” was downsized in 77 the Bonneville and Parisienne were identical except for engines.
The original Pontiac on a Chevy frame,was a matter of taste. I owned several of these from the early sixties. An in line 6 in 62 Strato Chief 2 door pillar was a pleasure to look at,and to drive
GM’s cars had much better camouflaged commonalities prior to this, but this was the most flagrant badge (or grill) engineering hack-job yet seen by the General, in the US market at least…This kind of crap was more accepted for Chrysler and Ford, but GM was held to a higher standard. The different divisions were actually supposed to stand for something, for a unique product, for brand-specific qualities.
For shame, Pontiac Ventura, for shame…you were the harbinger of many BAD things to come.
GM Canada was the prelude to the badge-engineering main act to come.
This is especially true when it comes to engines. Pontiacs used Chevy engines in Canada long before that was common in the US.
I wish someone would right a short book about all the oddball Canadian cars (and even Canada-only engines) that came along over the years.
On that note, I challenge thee to do a curbside classic on the Pontiac Beaumont, a Canada-only Chevelle-Tempest/GTO hybrid that is very scarce today.
Great point!
The first Beaumont I saw was a 1968 on my paper route in the early 1980s. When I take my Chevelle to car shows I always keep an eye out for the Beaumonts. There is a nice 396 one that makes the round of the various car shows and cruise nights in South West Ontario. Would love to take that to the U.S. to see some head scratching going on.
As for the car in this article I think that is a pretty handsome take on the Nova. While it is indeed badge engineering at its worst it is also a pretty cool looking car. Would love to put a modern LT1 in it or a nicely done up 396 with a 4 speed.
richeffect, In 1970, the Skylark was still a mid-size car with unique styling and engines. The Nova-based Skylark came in the late seventies, before it became an X-Body in the eighties.
dmrdano, up until the Venetura II, each GM division had unique outer body panels, even if they did share the same under-body shell. Also, there were unique suspension settings, engines, etc…
I guess my point is that I’ve never understood why anyone would buy the Acura version instead of just buying the Civic. Same for the Lexus ES instead of the Camry, any number of badge engineered GM’s, etc.
Because, in both those cases, the ES and CSX are better cars than the Camry and Civic. The ES has a nicer ride, much nicer interior, more soundproofing and more features (and looks different). The CSX has a different engine and significantly more content, though it really does look too much like the Civic. It sells in Canada because we don’t get the top-trim Civic.
Badge engineering isn’t so bad if you’re filling a niche that your other brands cannot. There’s nothing really wrong with a small, Cruze-based Cadillac, as long as that Cadillac is nice enough to warrant the premium and/or GM doesn’t sell a Cruze that’s just as nice for less money.
Toyota uses badge engineering to plug holes in the lineup (mostly). GM did it to make volume and give Pontiac, Buick, Olds and Caddy dealers something to sell. Those are two very different goals, and the latter is far more likely to be, eventually, self-defeating
Same for the Lexus ES instead of the Camry
Better looking, more features, quieter, better warranty, better dealer experience. You only save about 10% by going with the Camry – so, I could see why someone would go with the Lexus.
psarhjinian,
Exactly. The ES 350 is only 10% more than the Camry and I’d argue that it’s at least 10% nicer.
OK, I give up.
You have successfully beat me into the ground with this 1971 OBSESSION of yours, Mr. Niedermeyer. I get the whole “let’s do a special set of posts on early ’70s cars,” but it’s getting a bit old (no pun intended) now, isn’t it?
Mr. Niedermeyer The Elder, have you by any chance recently driven anything built in the past decade?
PN: Humphrey Bogart left his first lucky strike butt in the womb.
I had a similar experience to yours the first time I saw an Acadian.
My suspicion is that the Ventura II was the brainchild of Jim McDonald, who replaced John DeLorean as general manager of Pontiac in February 1969. McDonald thought that the best way to increase Pontiac’s already-impressive market share (they were #3 from about 1962 to 1969) was to go after Chevy, which meant cutting costs and prices.
Ironically, a decade or so earlier, the corporation had pressured Bunkie Knudsen to take a grille-engineered version of the Corvair. Knudsen and Pete Estes (then chief engineer) had resisted, and the rope-drive Tempest was the result. They shared body shells with Chevy, but Knudsen, Estes, and DeLorean had generally been very resistant to re-badging. GM’s divisions still had a lot more autonomy at that point, which eroded in the seventies and then got hit in the head with a hammer by Roger Smith in the mid-eighties.
I once owned a 1974 Ventura, eye-searing lime green with black and white checkered upholstery. Mine had a Buick 350 (or could have been Olds)and it was the tire-smoking ability that was the selling point (I was 17) It didn’t take long to find out why the selling price was so low. The back window and trunk seal leaked like a sieve. In the rain forest of British Columbia, the car had perpetually fogged windows and a lovely wet-dog smell. Good times!
NickR wrote:
“I wish someone would right a short book about all the oddball Canadian cars (and even Canada-only engines) that came along over the years”
Someone’s been there, done that. But, good luck finding a copy. They’re unobtainium. (You could try your public library, or inter-library loan request).
Canadian Cars 1946-1984 by R. Perry Zavitz, ISBN 0-934/780-43-9
Monarchs (Ford Motors Canada) were built from 1946-1957, then from 1959-1961. These were Mercury bodied cars sold by Ford-Monarch dealers with Monarch specific trim and grills, badges, color schemes and sometimes additional (smaller) engines available. They weren’t actually Lincolns, which were imported into Canada.
Meteors (Ford Motors Canada) were built from 1949-1961, and were dressed up Fords sold by Mercury dealers. Again, specific grills, badges, color schemes, etc. In addition, Mercury trucks were badge-engineered Fords.
Remember; before 1965’s “auto pact” between Canada and the United States, there were often substantial tariffs on cars made in one country and exported to the other. After 1964, when the auto pact took effect, as far as auto manufacture was concerned, the border evaporated. This was supposed to make for better efficiencies and lower car prices, especially for Canadians; and in fact, often times Canada exported more cars to the US than the other way around after this.
Some people believe that the auto pact was written in order to make Studebaker profitable (since beginning in January 1964, their sole car plant was in Hamilton, Ontario and some 85% of the cars were exported to the states).
If you are curious as to why the popular Canada only marque, Monarch, was not built in 1958, look no further than Edsel which replaced it. When it became crystal clear that Edsel was as big a flop north of the border as it was south, Ford hurriedly resurrected the Monarch.
Yes, 1958 and 1959 Edsels were manufactured in Canada for Canada. 1960 cars were imported (both of them – or was it three?)
Paul Niedermeyer, you are indeed correct that the bodies had differences. They were clearly siblings but not twins. I bow at your feet.
A good friend owned a ’75 Parisienne, but it could have originated in Canada, as we live in northern Minnesota (oof-da!). It was truly luxurious, and sucked gas (a 455).
The downsized GM’s of the late ’70’s to early ’80’s shared a lot more parts. Incidentally, the most economical car I have ever owned (= miles to the dollar) was a ’77 Impala. So many “give-aways” to improve fuel mileage cost dearly in upkeep dollars. My ‘9 Mazda cost a lot more to own.
Good piece on a forgotten Pontiac model.Now all I have to do is repress my memories of disco music. http://www.mystarcollectorcar.com/
Olds had a version of the Nova as well, it was called the Omega. All three cars were available as hatchbacks, and you could get the camper option on all three as well. Camper Option! Yes, camper option. See here (scroll down a bit, picture is on the right side).
http://books.google.com/books?id=cKSqa8u3EIoC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=Pontiac+Ventura+camper&source=bl&ots=A682k9cxK2&sig=u6WJDH8HtGYHcebRQBCa3kgsnpQ&hl=en&ei=UuzESq2DHcjPlAeT15WSAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=&f=false
And it got worse. By 1974, the Olds Omega and the Buick Apollo joined the fun.
I agree that GM’s divisions were held to a higher standard in those days. Ford and Chrysler had always done a relatively poor job of differentiating their nameplates. GM’s division, however, each had their own engineering and styling staffs, and their own assembly facilities. I always knew that the Ventura II was a badge-engineer job, but I never realized that there was absolutely zero Pontiac in the car.
I think we also need to be careful about the term “badge engineered”. The Ventura II fits the definition. However, the Camry/Lexus or the Accord/Acura involves a lot more than just badge-engineering. There is nothing wrong with platform sharing, and the same platform can produce cars with different engines, greenhouses, etc.
Sorry but in both cases, it is badge engineering. The problem is,Americans have been infatuated with overpriced, overrated Japanese junk since the late 70’s, so, anything they do is accepted as gospel. Case in point: Toyota can recall 16 million cars for a safety defect and all anyone can say is poor Toyota, but keep buying their cars in droves. If GM, Ford, or Chrysler had a recall that massive, they’d be (and have been) chastised to death and never live it down. All the Japanese have done is given us ugly, plastic, cookie cuttermobiles with no character and no significance other than (perceived rather than actual) reliability. Sorry but a Lexus is nothing but a Toyota in a Tuxedo, and an Acura is a Honda with a higher pricetag. There is no real difference in what GM did in the 70’s and what Toyota and Honda and Nissan currently do. The only difference is the Japanese continue to prove how stupid Americans are for paying a premium price for what is a mediocre vehicle.
Well, guess I’m the oddball here, but…
My family bought a Ventura in 1971. Gold with a white roof. Power nothin’. Straight six, 3 on the tree. It wasn’t a bad car at all.
My mom drove it until her death a few years ago. Not much to look at by then, but by God it was immortal – 30+ years with not much work to keep it running.
Yeah, it looked like a Nova. But I seem to recall that even Firebirds looked like Camaros by then (or perhaps it was a year or two later).
For those interested in the neat Canadian variants there is a great Flickr group with tons of photos here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/canadiancars/
@menno Your usually right on with your history but I got to correct you. We had the Meteor long past 1961. My buddy had a 66 Meteor Rideau 6cyl auto. We called it the Meteorite the big Ford would seat 6 and still have room for a twofour of Labbats 50.
As a kid, I was a rabid “autologist”, to the point of being able to tell you the model year of Beetles from a quick glance and pretty much anything American made after 1959. Whenever the folks would take us camping up in Canada, I would have tons of fun spotting all the odd-duck Canadian nameplates like Fargo and Mercury trucks and, of course, the various rebadged Pontiacs.
But just a few days ago on the Interstate, I spotted something I haven’t seen before. It was a mid-size sedan with Chevrolet badging that looked for all the world like a Camry. It went by too quickly for me to spot the model name. A Canada-only joint venture like the Nova/Corolla? Or something else entirely? Anyone here have any info?
jmo – Civic’s Honda has sold under the Acura badge north of the border. I’ve never understood the point of that one.
Canada is a poorer country than the US.
If your theory is correct, then why is it that the Acura brand in the US is also sold as Hondas in Europe, to include Great Britain? Why not pick population size or they have less television channels to choose from. I don’t think it has anything to do with GDP, more to the fact that Honda realizes that there is no reason to create another brand there.
Badge Engineering done right:
1. engineer it for the high end version
2. build the high end version first, sell at premium price
3. about halfway through the high-end model’s lifecycle, introduce the step-down model, which has:
– cheaper replacements for non-critical components (audio, seats, trim, hvac, etc.)
– detuned or smaller engine
– less expensive styling (chrome, exterior trim, etc.)
– a price that is low enough to be compelling for a value-conscious buyer, but not so low as to make the status-conscious high-ender feel like a total chump
4. amortize development cost of the two (or more) model lines via higher low-end volume sales
Badge Engineering done wrong:
1. Design a Chevy, poorly engineered
2. Replace the grille
3. Add leather
4. Call it a ‘Cimarron’
Honda realizes that there is no reason to create another brand there.
Huh, they already have both the Acura and Honda brands in Canada. Once they set up Acura in Canada they found that due to Canada being a poorer country there was moore demand at the lower end than in the US – hence they needed a rebadged Civic to fill out the lower end of the Acura line.
In the US there are a greater number of people, as a percentage of the population, in the market for TL’s and RL’s than in Canada.
Thanks for the tip Menno.
Do you or Mikey know why Canadian Pontiacs had Chev engines? (Created some super rare collectibles though…I remember when I was young a family friend had a late 60s Pontiac sedan with a 396 Chevy and four on the floor. His father wouldn’t let him drive it…hahaha, sucker!)
BTW, Mikey you are totally dating yourself…a case of ‘Cinquante‘? :b
@beater You might of seen an Epica or something that sounds like that,if its the one I’m thinkig of its a Korean made POS. I feel like hurling when I see the bowtie badge on it.
My history teacher had a Fargo truck. We used black tape to turn the “G” on the tailgate to a “T”. To us guys in grade nine it was pretty funny. The history teacher didn’t share our humour.
@NickR They used a Chev engine b/c it was, for all purposes a Chev. The frame was designed for a Chev. So if you wanted a big block you got a 409 or a 396 and I actualy saw a numbers matching 66 Pontiac Gran Sport with a 427. Now that,boys and girls is F—en rare.
@dave 7 thanks for the link. Great photos
Where was the cue?
Not half as much fun if I can’t stew for hours trying to guess the classic to come!
Interesting article.
I’d really enjoy seeing a GM Deadly Sin post about the FWD ’80s A-bodies (Celebrity/6000/Cutlass Ciera/Century).
They had very different interiors from each other. The Century and Ciera were nice enough inside from the Celebrity and 6000 to justify the premium. But the problem was, the outsides looked the same. And I’d argue that making the part of the car most people see–the exterior–different from a lower priced counterpart is more important than making the interior different.
Not to mention GM couldn’t get it’s marketing right on them, as you can see from this sales video:
The Chevy version at a country club? Uh, no. And the “Eurosport” version of the Celebrity really stepped on the 6000’s toes.
“skor : Olds had a version of the Nova as well, it was called the Omega. All three cars were available as hatchbacks, and you could get the camper option on all three as well. Camper Option! Yes, camper option. See here (scroll down a bit, picture is on the right side).
http://books.google.com/books?id=cKSqa8u3EIoC&pg=PA56”
Spiritual progenitor of the Aztek perhaps?
In 1976, in Canada, I bought a 1974 Pontiac Astre. At that time, the Acadian was a Nova. The Astre was a Vega with a different front snout and tail lights. The Vega/Astre dual was followed up by the Monza/Sunbird dual. The next gen Acadian was a clone of the Chevette, which, thankfully, I did not have.
Then came the Cavalier/Sunbird dual. Afterwhich the Sunbird became the Sunfire. The Cobalt brought us the Pontiac Pursuit which then became the G3 when my good friends south of the 49th also wanted a Pontiac version of the Chevy Cobalt.
@ menno
“Meteors (Ford Motors Canada) were built from 1949-1961, and were dressed up Fords sold by Mercury dealers. Again, specific grills, badges, color schemes, etc. In addition, Mercury trucks were badge-engineered Fords.”
I’ve seen exactly two of these before, probably when I lived in Seattle:
A 1960 Meteor wagon with very odd taillights.
An early ’70’s Mercury pickup.
Both looked as incongruous as if I’d spotted a UFO.
Thanks, Paul, for diagnosing the badge engineering disease to a very specific year and model. The patient has clung onto life for a long 38 years, while losing health due to the spread of the disease, and now is finally losing vital organs.
Somebody posted the other day:
“It’s just a flesh wound.” – Fritz Henderson
Continuing on a theme here…..
I’ll always remember the NOVAS:
Nova
Omega
Ventura
Apollo
Seville
Monarchs came back in the 70s as tarted up Granadas.
The big thing is fixing all these frankensteins. It’s amusing to read parts catalogues for the 70s and 80s marques, it’s schizophenia on steroids! A Buick blah needs this except if has the Olds whatsit then it’s this unless there’s powersteering then it’s this without a/c.
Usually by the time you worked out what friggen part was needed it was easier just to kick the thing back to the dealer and let them figure it out.
@ menno:
I have a copy of that rare book that I picked up in Northern Alberta in 1988. It’s quite good up to about 1970 or so, but there are errors here and there. That’s because you know cars friends had that the author forgot about. It’s quite confusing. For example, my recollection is that the only true Pontiac for sale in ’69 in Canada was the GTO/Judge. It had an honest to goodness 389 or 400, and sounded different than a Chev.
@ mikey:
The old 261 Chev six made school buses run like Jack the Bear back in my day. We had 40 buses at our rural high school, and every one of them had the 261 and 4 speed manual tranny with Ruxall rear axle. They could rev amazingly high, or at least they did in the three buses I had the most experience in. That same engine in a Canadian full-sized Pontiac made for very smooth progress. My memories are mostly of a ’61 Strato-Chief with 3 on the tree. Would blow away a 283 Powerglide, and frankly, seemed smoother.
A poster in here thought the 70 Buick Skylark was the same as this.
Not.
The Skylark was a Buick with its own interior and body and used Buick engines. It was an “A” body at that time. Actually the 70 Skylark GS 455 is highly prized as a collectible. Thus, sorry, no connection to this Chevy Nova badge engineered clone…..
An old friend of mine had a 70 Skylark from his Mom that we restored and hopped up a bit back in the day when we thought GM had some cool stuff. Then again, we can go attend the Detroit Woodward Dream Cruise and look to the past for what once was……
I had the 73 Nova in this bodystyle. It was very stout for highway travel. The straight six was adequate and the car lasted quite a while.
A Pontiac grille would make no difference. This was a “small” big car, in that Detroit considered it a ‘real’ car. The body on frame construction and RWD combined with a three abrest front seat and autostik on the tree made this truly old school.
Many hours on the highway, complete with “road hugging weight”. Took hits in Boston Traffic from the street and other cars. One day, the tinworm got it-but it fought to the end.
Canadians also have to pay a VAT, adding 15% to the sticker price. I never got so many nasty looks when I went up to Montreal in my shiny new 330i. A car mostly ignored as a status symbol in the States…and then I priced it with tax and in Montreal it was a symbol of wretched excess making others fight to cut me off in traffic and gratiously flip me off.
I never got so many nasty looks when I went up to Montreal in my shiny new 330i. A car mostly ignored as a status symbol in the States…and then I priced it with tax and in Montreal it was a symbol of wretched excess making others fight to cut me off in traffic and gratiously flip me off.
That’s got nothing to do with your ride and everything to do with Montreal. God I love driving there because there is only one predictable on the road: Everyone will do the unpredictable.
argentla :
Ironically, a decade or so earlier, the corporation had pressured Bunkie Knudsen to take a grille-engineered version of the Corvair. Knudsen and Pete Estes (then chief engineer) had resisted, and the rope-drive Tempest was the result.
Excellent point. Ironically in its own way, the Pontiac Corvair-clone, the Polaris, was basically finalized in design and was a nice looking car, especially in front, where creating a grille-less version of the Poncho split grille was much more successful than the Vair’s we-don’t-quite-know-what-to-do-up-here look:
http://svammelsurium.blogg.se/images/2009/1960-pontiac-polaris_28500395.jpg
I’m not so sure the Ventura and other Nova clones were the beginning of the end. It’s possible that the late 60’s early 70s A bodies were the real start of the trend. Chevelles, Tempests, Cutlasses and Skylarks all had the same basic body lines and as far as I know under the sheetmetal were pretty much the same other than engine options and interiors.
@ Speedlaw: Nova was not body on frame nor were any of it’s clones. They did adopt a front sub-frame [1968 re-do]that attached to the unit body which held the engine,steering etc.The older models integrated all of this into the body shell which supported it.
The hatchback version was called “Liftback” (?!), and the Zavitz book mentioned by Menno is quite good indeed; find it if you can.
What’s curious about GM’s decision to begin ‘badge engineering’ cars between divisions was how it transpired over a period of six years between 1971 and 1977, and how blind GM was to obvious signs it was a poor, long-term decision.
It might have started with the installation of Chevy engines into 1971 Venturas but, as pointed out, the situation was corrected the very next year when the Ventura got a Poncho-sourced V8. Likewise, when the Buick Apollo and Olds Omega arrived, they didn’t have Chevy V8s, either, but had the ‘proper’ V8s from their respective divisions, as well.
But that all changed when the new models came out in 1975. Although the new Nova still got Chevy engines, and the Buick Apollo/Skylark had Buick engines, the Ventura and Omega no longer had division-specific engines but, instead, also came equipped with a Buick engine. Even then, none of the buying public seemed to notice or mind too much.
It wasn’t until 1977 when GM surreptiously put Chevy V8s into some Oldsmobile Delta 88s to meet demand that there was a major public outcry over the practice. But rather than heed the warning, GM just started flatly stating that GM cars would come with engines from various GM divisions. From that point forward, all bets were off, and it was only a matter of time before truly craptacular, thinly disguised stuff like the Cimarron would arrive.
So, although it’s true that the Chevy-powered 1971 Pontiac Ventura might have technically been the first badge-engineered GM product, it wasn’t until 1975 when the practice started in earnest, and it wasn’t until 1977 that the GM execs should have realized it was a short-sighted idea that would ultimately put the corporation on the road to ruin.
As to the early sixties top Pontiac execs (Knudson, Estes, and DeLorean) foregoing their own version of the Corvair in lieu of the ‘rope-drive’ Tempest, I suspect that decision quite angered the bean-counting GM corporate brass. They held a grudge, too, and that, even more than the GTO (for which they were going to fire DeLorean until it became a huge success) was what ultimately caused DeLorean to finally get fired a decade later.
It would have been interesting had there, indeed, been an early sixties Pontiac version of the Corvair. Maybe it would have hastened GM’s demise by a decade…
jmo : Canada is a poorer country than the US.
Canada GDP at PPP = 39,100
US GDP at PPP = $46,900
Couple that with higher taxes and Canadians have less disposable income with which to buy automobiles.
That could be the reason that the Civic and Mazda3 are the best selling cars here, but it may surprise you to hear that many of us just don’t understand the point of spending more than necessary. An electrical engineer friend still drives a ’97 Acura Civic (1.6 EL) despite making almost six figures; my ex-girlfriend, a pharmacist, still drives a 2.0L ’93 MX-6 despite a similar income; a mechanical engineer friend does most of his driving in an ’87 Suburban that his late grandfather bought new 22 years ago despite making very healthy six figures (he has a necessary work truck as well, but doesn’t use it much when he’s home). I could go on, as pretty well all my friends are childless professionals and none live a debt-fueled lifestyle. I bought my ’04 Mazda3 new shortly after finishing university, paid a total of $500 in interest on the small loan, and I don’t expect I’ll ever sell it. Why would I need anything more? I also think that U.S. number is inflated by a small percentage with very high income.
Why did he buy the 1.6EL many years ago? You couldn’t get a 4-door Civic with leather and the VTEC, and why would a young single guy need anything bigger or more expensive?
I’ll add that with the oilfield company I worked for previously, we made considerably more, even after the exchange rate, then our co-workers south of the border for the same work. I always kept my mouth shut during any salary discussions whenever I was doing a job down there. No need to rock the boat!
Though the Ventura II (What happened to the Ventura I?) might have been the first GM model to offer only another division’s engines, it should be noted that when GM introduced their compacts in 1961 the Buick Special, Olds F-85, and Pontiac Tempest all shared the 215 cubic inch V8 (Though most Tempests came equipped with the standard “half a 389” 4 cylinder, the 215 was an option).
As to where the Ventura (and its badge-engineered counterparts) were assembled, from reading the Standard Catalog books for each division and decoding the VIN numbers of cars I’ve seen for sale, most were made in either Willow Run (In Ypsilanti, MI, where I think most, if not all, Corvairs were made), Van Nuys, CA, or North Tarrytown, NY.
Through it’s lifespan and even after it morphed into the Phoenix, the Ventura continued to offer only other divisions engines. The Chevy 250 six was eventually replaced by the Buick 231 V6 as the standard engine with the Olds 260 V8, Chevy 305, and Buick 350 as options at one time or another.
The Skylark did eventually surface as a badge engineered X-body (Nova) in 1975. In 1973, Buick revived the Century name for its intermediates and the Apollo was their Nova clone. In 1975, the two-door models were Skylarks and the 4-doors were Apollos. In 1976, all body styles became Skylarks.
They all did this in the 70’s onwards. Who can forget the Ford Granada, Mercury Monarch and the Lincoln Versailles, three pees in a pod. Things were vastly different back in those days. When something was selling well the answer was to clone the heck out of it with another name and watch the sales climb up. Even vacuum cleaner companies were doing this. Hoovers were being sold to Wards, Western Auto, Pennys and Eatons under alias names and color combinations but were the same thing underneath. Remember the Regina Electrikbroom in the 60’s-80’s. Well Sears, Pennys, Singer, Eatons and Iona also sold the same thing with there name on it sporting different color schemes and badges, sort of like the cars themselves in this article.