Growing up my family owned a Jeep Wagoneer that consistently broke down towing our boat. My frugal parents couldn’t afford to have it repaired by a mechanic so my Pop dutifully bought the repair manual and spent his days off cursing under the hood in our driveway. He eventually grew so frustrated that he dropped a 500cu Cadillac engine in that old Jeep. Technology has made do-it-yourself repairs little more than nostalgic memories. Now it takes expensive diagnostic computers to identify why the light on the dash came on. And not only are the diagnostic computers expensive but in many cases the codes are proprietary. With recent dealership closures, congress has proposed legislation to protect consumers access to this critical repair information. HR 2057, the Rural Communities Stranded Without The Right To Repair Act would require auto manufacturers to make repair information and computer diagnostic codes available to the general public.
The people at righttorepair.org want you to imagine not having to pay $80-$150 at a dealership for them to tell you that your O2 sensor has gone out and are ramping up efforts to pass the bill [press release via Reuters]. Manufacturers need not fear this legislation, for the simple reason that it won’t magically make people like me able to fix their own vehicles. If anything, attempting repairs myself would actually improve business for my local mechanic. If nothing else though, my complete lack of mechanical competence combined with the passage of this legislation will ensure that my kids will be able to grow up with their own memories of daddy yelling at the car.
A lot of the codes are phantoms or legacy, i.e. they give a code for something fleeting that “fixed itself,” but you still have to pay a mechanic to reset the light. There could be a market for a really cheap code reader if the codes were published.
All that said, most of the things that trigger a code would be hard for the amateur to fix. Also, you may inadvertently erase the memory of a code that the real mechanic could need. Finally, nearly everything on the car today has integrated electronics, much of which goes through an expensive and delicate ECU. I would be very hesitant today to start poking around trying to fix anything more than a fuse or a light bulb without really knowing what I was doing.
Didn’t SEMA already win a case about “right to repair” years ago?
Information is the key. I’d fix anything on any car as long as I have access to the manuals and the same information the stealership mechanics do.
There is nothing that can’t be reasonably diagnosed down to either a simple repair or a complex one that actually requires tools or parts not available to the layman.
The point is to be able to decide when to shell out the bucks for shop work (internal trans work for example) or just replacing a O2 sensor, bad spark plug, or dirty MAF sensor.
Nothing makes more money for the shops like simple emissions failures, many of which are covered under an extended warranty by law.
Good god, having never looked under the hood of a Lexus I am shocked at how much plastic there is. It would take and hour just to pull all that shit off to be able to get to anything. Companies will cut every penny they can on parts of the car used all the time (dash, knobs, arm rests, seats) but waste so much money on rediculous covers for the engine compartment. How many people are that that NEVER even open their hood. I am willing to bet 70% of buyers never open the hood other than to maybe fill the washer reservoir (and even then some of them have the lube place do that for them too). Stop wasting money on it and give me better seats and make it so I don’t have to spend hours cussing at your plastic covers.
Talk about a code, I had a B1 code on my ’09 daily driver Civic that I thought was just an oil change. So I go in to get the oil changed as I was too lazy to do it myself (I even brought the oil and the filter with me), and the clown wanted to charge me an additional $71 to check the brakes, rotate the tires (that I already did) and do a walk around. I honestly laughed! What a scam… a code to get you into the dealer!
But of course, the waiting room were all women that don’t know a thing about brakes and rotating tires. I did ask my wife when I got home if she would have paid the $71, and she said, “Of course I would have.” And there you go…
Tomorrow I am changing the brakes on my wife’s Liberty. Thankfully I can still do that.
kericf: “It would take and hour just to pull all that shit off to be able to get to anything.”
I’ll bet it doesn’t. That would increase warranty expense. I don’t know whether it serves a purpose, aside from making the engine bay look tidy, but I’m sure it’s easy to remove and replace.
<i.Growing up my family owned a Jeep Wagoneer that consistently broke down towing our boat. My frugal parents couldn’t afford to have it repaired
If you have a boat you are by definition not frugal.
I’m a little confused. I admit my best shade tree mechanic days are behind be – gone the way of points, and condensers. However, you can get a code reader at AutoZone, or the like for around $60. Some models have a booklet that tells what the code is. W/o the manual, just do a Google search.
Is there something I’m missing here? The code reader is way easier than the system of checks we had to go through in the old days.
That said, in the old days there was no dash light, and therefore no problem. Ignorance was bliss.
Yes, there are still a lot of small routine maint. issues the layman can do with the right guide. I am just not as mechanically adept and adventurous as some are. With anything electrical, just be careful. I currently have no dash lights after my son decided to help dad and install the new radio.
I have been amazed at how so many repair manuals these days say things like, “For this repair, contact your dealer.”
Dynamic88 :
October 13th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
I’m a little confused. I admit my best shade tree mechanic days are behind be – gone the way of points, and condensers. However, you can get a code reader at AutoZone, or the like for around $60. Some models have a booklet that tells what the code is. W/o the manual, just do a Google search.
Or, provided you can drive/coast there, you can use theirs for free. You just give them your license as collateral and they hand you the scanner.
Or, conversely, make friends with a mechanic/shop that has the scanner hanging on the wall. More free use.
The “you have to go to the dealer and pay $75 to get this code read/reset” scam apparently isn’t just affecting the less technologically advanced among us, as it seems I am the first to point these obvious remedies out…
Further, $12 Haynes manuals and the like have every code and its meaning listed, and failing that, a five minute internet search will turn up the meaning for 99.9% of codes for any given car, even if it’s too new/rare to have a dedicated manual (as is the case with my mom’s Aurora and my Mitsubishi Diamante and Infiniti G20 – what can I say? I like rare, mediocre cars…).
This notion that modern cars are impossible to fix by a shadetree mechanic is baloney. I don’t know about asians but you can get excellent computer tools and all information you need for european cars. VWAG is especially good at this. All kinds of computer tools are available — you just have to stop being lazy and lift a finger to look for them. Today with everything available at your fingertips on the internet things are better than ever!
I would not know the first thing about fixing a carburator — that’s the difficult stuff. You need specialized knowledge and be a bit of a magician in order to fix those. Modern fuel injection and computer systems are easy and consistent in comparison.
The OBDII codes are mostly standardized with defined groupings of code numbers designated for manufacturer-specific purposes.
Advance Auto/Auto Zone will hook up their code reader (which they sell for like $90) and give you a printout of what the code means for your vehicle. There’s also the internet to tell you what your codes mean, and Chrysler vehicles (like both my OBD1 88 and my OBD2 02 Dodge trucks) will tell you what codes it has without a reader. Just cycle the key a few times and either the Check Engine light blinks in morse code (OBD1) or the code displays on the digital odometer (OBD2). This should be industry standard IHMO.
The problem is that the OBD codes are mainly for emissions equipment or mission-critical engine management. These days there are powertrain control modules, body control modules, and who knows how many other brain boxes that aren’t nearly as standardized as ECUs, don’t all communicate with each other or using similar protocols, and good luck figuring out how to tell what each of them is responsible for.
The last I heard about right to repair it seemed like an argument I didn’t want to have a stake in. Manufacturers said they already offered what the bill wanted to forcibly open up, but the groups pushing the bill wanted to force the automakers to offer the info for nearly free…seemed more like much whining about nothing.
I am a biased. I work at a shop. So you can poh-pooh my comments if you wish but the simple truth is: YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO WORK ON YOUR NEW CAR.
It’s true. Do you have constant updated technical information? Do you have a hoist? Do you have diagnostic equipment. No? Then you are not prepared to work on your car.
I hear it all the time :
CUSTOMER: “Jeeze five hundy for a tune up? are you insane?”
ME: “Sir, have you ever even seen the spark plugs on your car?”
CUST: “No, But it cant be THAT hard.”
ME: “Sir the rear spark plugs are under the windshield…very hard to get to…”
CUST: “Well I’ll just save myself the money and do it myself.”
…
Two Days Later :
CUST: “Hey, I was changing my spark Plugs and I broke one off and I can’t get the two in the back. How Much?”
ME: “With the straight labor for repairing the broken plug… and the labor for the other plugs … um … 800 or so…”
CUST:”800?! But you told me five for the Tune-Up.”
ME: “It is what it is, sir…”
And so. The fact is Shops do have to make money, and there is times where something takes 2 minutes to do that calls for an hour. Cool beans for the shop when that happens because the times where it calls for one hour and takes two you can bet the customer isn’t going to give you more than the quote.
I guess it all boils down to : It’s cheaper to walk, but no one wants to do that so you have to pay the shop. Thats how it is.
kericf :
October 13th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Good god, having never looked under the hood of a Lexus I am shocked at how much plastic there is. It would take and hour just to pull all that shit off to be able to get to anything. Companies will cut every penny they can on parts of the car used all the time (dash, knobs, arm rests, seats) but waste so much money on rediculous covers for the engine compartment. How many people are that that NEVER even open their hood. I am willing to bet 70% of buyers never open the hood other than to maybe fill the washer reservoir (and even then some of them have the lube place do that for them too). Stop wasting money on it and give me better seats and make it so I don’t have to spend hours cussing at your plastic covers.
Contrary to popular belief, much of the plastic decorating the engine bays of cars (this is particularly true of more expensive makes like Lexus) is there as a sound-deadening material and to reduce vibrations from the running engine, not simply to cover up the engine from view, as perpetuated by ever-complaining car magazines in the late 1990s.
I don’t let anyone tell me my rights, reminding me is ok thought.
Engines still work fundamentally the same. Vtec and electronic throttle, and emissions valves and stuff may need a PC, but don’t most cars still run fine with basic maintenance work? (spark plugs, O2 sensor, good hoses? etc etc)
“Right To Repair” has NOTHING to do with repairs.
It is a action backed by the Big Box parts stores, who are dying for technical specs to manufacture their own temp sensors or what have you.
The information exists for the repair industry. Right now. And it exists on a VOLUNTARY basis.
See NASTF.ORG for more.
My pathfinder has one on it that is integrated into the air intake hose so in order to remove it you have to losen up the connection at the intake box and intake manifold to be able to remove the plastic engine cover. That is rediculous. If it is easy to remove alright, but this type of approach is inexcusable. And how much sound deadening can a 1/4″ thick piece of plastic really provide. I think a well manufactured, balanced engine would do more to deaden sound and kill vibration than a few sheets of plastic.
My scan gauge can access the repair code. I just call one of my mechanic friends then to find out what the trouble is. SCan gauges are available for about $150 (google scan gauge and it will take you to the website). They give you precise engine temp (which has proven useful), instantaneous mpg, speed, rpms, engine load, voltage, and a variety of other useful info. They plug into the OBD, which most cars have that were built after ’96. It’s under the dash, you don’t have to unscrew anything.
What car has the back two sparkplugs behind the windshield?
Just curious.
Kalapana Black is absolutely right: the plastic is there to control sound, and a 1/4″ piece of plastic can do a substantial amount of that. And though you’ve probably never seen it, there’s just as much plastic _under_ the car, where it certainly isn’t cosmetic. some of it may be slightly aerodynamic and in aid of cooling, but most of it is there so the car can pass European drive-by-noise regulations.
And yes, I was one of the car writers who whined about it in the ’90s–I remember once writing that it made the underhood of the original Lexus LS400 “look like a dishwasher”–but that’s before I found out why it was there.
Mr. Sloan,
I agree that some things are best left to the pros, especially when it is me doing it. I do not object to a dealership making a profit, as they provide a necessary service (esp. warranty) and have expenses and children to feed. They have a right to make money off their service. But I will use an independent professional repair shop to avoid the dealership shop any time I can. Most dealer shops seem to exist to push up costs.
I recently had a dealer charge me $139 to run an OBD-II scan (I was away from home), then tell me they did not have the part anyway. The service and parts would cost almost $700 additional, a week without the car, and an extra trip to pick it up (300 miles round trip). I limped home without it. My local repair shop found the real fault in an obviously broken wire. It took 5 minutes to find and less to fix. He did not charge me (“I’ll get you next time!”). The dealer would have pocketed my money and not fixed the problem! Just my story, but I’ll bet many others would tell their version.
Why do they even bother putting an openable hood on that Lexus? It doesn’t seem to provide access to anything but the oil filler. They should just bolt it down and rename it the “engine cover”. Just leave a tiny door to fill fluids, like on the Boxster.
A similar law is being debated here in Canada. The folks who are for it are all of the independant mechanics who can’t fix a lot of modern car problems because they are denied access to the information that the dealerships have. The manufacturers don’t want to let go of their captive victims. It’s all about making a level playing field for service providers.
I’m with Dynamic88 – just buy a scan tool. They’re cheaper than a good torque wrench, and probably more useful. All of the codes are published on the web somewhere, with a good chance of finding the exact list for your specific model. Now when my CEL lights up, it takes less than two minutes to determine that it’s just P0128 (Coolant Temp Too Low) again, and I can clear it with a press of a button. If a more serious code comes up then I can either fix it myself or take it in.
Electrical tape is your friend. Stick a small piece on the dash over the MIL and don’t worry about it.
Last time I tried to use an OBDII scan tool on our Boxster, it wouldn’t fit: Porsche, the bastids, apparently ensures that their proprietary scanner has a unique interface, so you _have_ to go to the dealer.
Oh, and Boxsters don’t have a little door to fill fluids, unless the newest ones are different: generations one and two require that you open the rear trunk (oil and coolant) or the front trunk (windshield washer).
And here’s the best part: If you leave the lights on (or whatever) and kill the battery, a Boxster’s trunklids are electrically activated. Or not. You need to first jumper a rig in the cockpit to open the hood then jump or charge the battery under the hood. so what’s wrong with a cable, like on my ’83 911?
What car has the back two sparkplugs behind the windshield?
usually fwd V Sixes tucked up against the firewall.
Isn’t modern day democracy a wonderful thing.
If you have a VW/Audi product, Vag-Com/VCDS will be your new best friend once you get it. More than just a simple code reader, and it’s relatively cheap. It’ll pay for itself after one visit to your (un)friendly local stealer. As for other makes, code readers are easy to find at even places like Walmart. An OBD reader along with Google or an actual repair manual can make anyone capable of fixing a modern car.
“Chrysler vehicles (like both my OBD1 88 and my OBD2 02 Dodge trucks) will tell you what codes it has without a reader. Just cycle the key a few times and either the Check Engine light blinks in morse code (OBD1) or the code displays on the digital odometer (OBD2). This should be industry standard IHMO.”
Yep. My 03 Durango had a cracked hose on the fuel evaporative do-hicky thing and threw a code. I read it without a scanner and fixed it myself. I did try to get a new 6 inch long piece of hose from the dealer parts dept (it had a 90 degree bend in it). They said it was $37! I used a generic hose from NAPA.
Growing up I helped the old man do repairs (I handed him whatever he needed, and held whatever he gave me). In those days you could actually find the engine, and what was there was pretty simple and accessible (’62 Rambler Classic and ’64 Dodge pick up). Today, except for gear heads and/or serious hobbyists, no one, and I mean no one is qualified to work on a modern automobile. Today, even replacing a high beam light bulb is beyond the practical capability of the average American. Those on this forum who actually work on their cars are the few, the proud, and the frugal.
Now hold on, this is not a balanced story.
The primary error codes which can turn on a check engine light are standardized by law in the US and can be read on any 1996 and later vehicle with a relatively inexpensive sub $200 code reader. I work on modern vehicles frequently using only such a generic code reader.
Manufacturers do have a whole set of additional proprietary codes which I agree should continue to be made public, but there is not a case where a “bad oxygen sensor” requires a trip to the dealer to find out. Most Autozones will hook up a code reader for you at no charge and tell you what it says.
BTW Mr. Sloan, I am very well qualified to do my own work on old or modern vehicles. My college degress is in Electrical Engineering and I’ve been doing my own automotive work for over 30 years. In the rare case where something is over my head I quite readily recognize that and go to one of several good local shops. Many times over the years when I have been too busy to do my own work I’ve gone to dealers or indy shops only to be disappointed in the quality of work. There are some very good techs and some very good shops. There are also a lot of bad ones. Generalizing about DIY efforts or “professional” efforts gets it wrong.
He eventually grew so frustrated that he dropped a 500cu Cadillac engine in that old Jeep.
Off topic but…that’s a freaking awesome Jeep!
A few questions about the back two spark plugs being under the windshield.
Most V-8 Rear wheel drives any more. Most egregious example: 96 TO 03 F-150.
As to the electrical engineer. Sir, I am not you and cannot speak for your expertise, likewise I have no interest in offending you or your abilities. Point is when you attempt something over your head and then bring it to a shop to fix your screw-up you are already frustrated and then have the “insult” of being charged a fair price to fix the mess you have made. Trust me I deal with this all the time.
The price you pay for having an engine that isn’t perpetually out of tune is a whole slew of sensors and computers and precise mechanicals that keep it in tune. Hell, even when the Golden Oldies ran right (for a given value of “right”, they either spewed pollutants or were utterly gutless. Modern engine management gives you power, reliability and clean-burn, and all you give up is shade-tree mechanickry.
Computers are the same way. I used to be able to de-solder chips, run new traces and change clocks and whatnot.** Now, with a modern multilayer, SMT board I wouldn’t try. Do I lose repairability? Sure. Is my current computer about a thousand times faster than my first? For sure. Do I mind? Not really.
** my grandfather lamented ICs and the repairability problems vis a vis vacuum tubes. I’m sure that auto enthusiasts feel the same way about a Ford Sidevalve versus a BMW N55.
I plan on building my own car. It’ll be like linux.
The procedure for getting the code from a MoPar product is to switch the ignition key On-Off-On-Off-On then count the flashes of the engine light. Look it up in your Haynes or Clymer manual.
Don’t have one of these? Close the hood and back away. You do not have the first tool you need to be working on your automobile.
It can get a bit scary when you get 3-5 codes at once but after going through them a few times you get the idea that if something upstream fails, it will cause several faults downstream. Fix the most upstream thing first.
BTW, the Chrysler V6 usually requires the intake manifold be removed to get at the back three plugs. Once every 100,000 miles if you use good fuel. The dealer has a gasket kit with only those you need for the project. Everyone else sells a bunch of individual kits that leave you with a pile of unused gaskets.
With cars being so super high-tech these days, almost everything gets a patent application.
The diagrams explaining these inventions are usually quite excellent and are placed into the public domain as soon as the application arrives at the USPTO, which of course allows anyone to download the diagrams and descriptions for free. You just need to know which patent(s) apply to your fuel injector.
If you are mechanically inclined, you are definitely capable of figuring out how a common rail fuel system works, direct injection injectors, etc. And if the electronics are the actual problem, you’ll probably get a diagnostic code that can be read by your ODBII scanner.
I really don’t understand why people think cars can’t be fixed anymore. More information about them is available then ever before.
Feel a bit dumb when working on a car or talking to a Service Manager? Take a look at “Automotive Service” by Tim Gilles from the Thompson/Delmar Automotive Technology Learning series. The book supports ASE and NATEF mechanic certifications. 1470 pages with DVD.
Borders Books frequently has 40% off any book if you join their book club (free).
Of course if you are really serious about servicing your car, you’ll get the manufacturer’s Shop Manual for it.
I think it’s a myth that OBD cars are more difficult to repair than old cars of the past. If you’re smart enough to not buy a crap car to begin with, the required maintenance isn’t that difficult and Google is the DIYer’s friend, providing a way to get useful information 24/7.
As an example, my first car was a 1971 Chevrolet Malibu with a 350 V8. The spark plug under the A/C compressor was always a pain to get at and the Chevelle required fairly frequent spark plug changes. Also had trouble with the distributor cap arcing over and vacuum leaks were a pain to track down. Don’t miss carburator cleaning/rebuilding and the smell of the carcinogens in a paint can. Getting worn rear brake drums off the car really sucks too.
In contrast, the only “tune up” I’ve ever had to do on my V6 Honda Accord was to buy a $20 set of NGK spark plugs at AutoZone and spend half an hour installing them. Easy task because the plugs are installed from the top of the head, not the side like on the push rod Chevy. Antilock brakes could be somewhat complex to troubleshoot, but I’ve only ever had to have the rotors turned and replace the brake pads. Easy. The various fluid and filter changes are also easy if the DIYer makes use of Google to learn what unique fluids are required and why.
Another vote here for the shade tree mechanic.
I have never had a repair that could not be fixed in my own home garage. Transmission in my Toyota pickup only involved 2 wrenches. Window regulator in my wife’s CR-V only took one. Timing belt in the miata only needed 2 also. Contrary to what is said by many….these cars are NOT more complicated to service than anything in the past. Of course the factory shop manuals spell everything out for you. Honestly the only thing different between me and a certified auto mechanic is that I have not sat down in front of an overpriced series of CBL programs for hours on end. If you don’t believe this I have 200,000 miles on each of 6 cars over 25 years to prove otherwise.
Then again I have only owned Honda, Toyota, and Mazda products that engineer their cars soundly enough to where working on them is easy.
OBDII is a godsend on modern cars and continued transparency is always a plus for the consumer. I hope this legislature passes.
Regarding Toyota products and looking under the hood-
I looked under the hood of my 1994 Camry around 1998 when a neighbor expressed astonishment that I never had. Looked again in 1999 to check on the battery when I was taking pictures to sell it on EBay.
I changed oil myself on all family vehicles until my sons got old enough to do it the indestructable Celicas we purchased for them from neighbors’ front yards. Then I decided to let the dealer or Jose do it.
I first looked under the hood of my 2000 Lexus last year when the battery started to delay or drag a bit when I started up. Sure enough it was the OEM battery, 8 years later, 6 after I got it, it was time for a replacement battery.
I have more than made up for it with my previous Detroit 2.5 vehicles , our one time fleet of 4 Saabs (each opening was an adventure, depending on how you opened it and what bizarre piece of Swedish engineering had gone kaput)and several outboards made in America.
Cured that last problem with a Yamaha on my bass boat.
Point is if you have a ToyoNissonda product and pay the dealer $50 every 6 months, you have no real reason to open the hood. Unless you just want to look for plastic to bitch about.
I’d be fairly confident in suggesting that the overall cost of operating a modern car is lower than it was 20-30 years ago.
That’s great for people that like their Toyota’s to be reliable appliances. Their strategy seems to be a winning one to me.
Cars today are easier to work on than ever, if you have a proper code reader and access to a service manual. The low point was early 90s cars before the easy diagnostics of OBD2.
Hondas and Toyotas are tops for servicability. The Germans are the worst but are still repairable.
Visit the car forum for your particular car. Chances are that someone has already found and repaired whatever you are experiencing and has posted it online.
I have to say that some of the “gee cars are so complicated” responses above are a little disappointing, given that this is a car enthusiast site.
I prefer to fight my god forsaken furnace than attempt to fix my car.
There are exceptions, but I think the service dept. have helped kill the old big three.
I’ve never had to pay someone to fix or maintain my vehicles yet, but I’ve only been driving computerized cars for ten years so maybe I’m due for some strange computer failure that I can’t diagnose with my CAN/OBDII reader and a factory service manual.
I wouldn’t buy any new car that I’d expect to ever not be able to repair myself. My Mazda3 doesn’t seem very complicated, and I’ve modified a number of electrical things on it to suit my taste.
“I prefer to fight my god forsaken furnace than attempt to fix my car.”
A popular Newfie joke (Newfoundland, that is) used to be that a guy came across his neighbor and a bunch of friends pushing his house up a hill, out on the road.
“What are you doing?” he asked.
“Trying to jump-start the damn furnace,” the neighbor answered.
my grandfather lamented ICs and the repairability problems vis a vis vacuum tubes
If he was a blues guitarist (or he was Link Wray) I can see why.
For me, home repairs aren’t difficult because of the hardware it’s the crap I have to through to get to them. It seems so many things are held together with clips/snaps that break when you try to dissemble them, or never fit snugly again once reassembled.
The other problem is disposal, there is no one around here that accepts used motor oil for recycling.
I disagree. Cars have never been easier to fix thanks to CDROMs, the Internet, and model-specific car fora. I just bypassed purchasing a new $1,200 hydraulic brake booster by replacing a $1.09 O-ring from NAPA. And by using a little elbow grease and information obtained from a community of really clever guys spread all over the world.
The real problem here is the owner – most American males have gradually morphed into mechanical metrosexuals, and run screaming whenever the hood is popped and sobbing uncontrollably whenever the CE light comes on.
Face it, the majority of guys today own “grooming products”, not torque wrenches.
My 2008 BMW 3 Series doesn’t have a dipstick. Doesn’t even have a temperature gauge or an ammeter. Nuthin’.
What it does have is a computer that calls the dealership (using my cellphone bluetooth connection I think) and report any maintenance requirements to them.
They then call me.
The only thing it does show (for roughly 10 seconds after starting the engine) is the number of miles estimated till the next service and the estimated date it will take to reach that.
Right to repair, uh yeah. What could I ask for – the car to phone the code to me directly??
@Mark out West – It’s sad when I know several of my fellow engineering students who don’t even know how to do relatively simple repairs. I spent several hours teaching a friend how to change the oil on his Oldsmobile Aurora, a few weeks ago, and it’s a fairly easy car to work on..
If only people would learn to work on their own cars again, then maybe I would have a free weekend when I’m not teaching someone how to check their oil, ATF, etc..
I’m not sure about other manufacturers, but for Nissan there are plenty of ‘enthusiast’ websites which list all the codes and all their faults as well as give links to places where software/hardware can be downloaded/bought so that the amateur mechanic can figure out their own problems.
Personally it’s one reason why I’ve mainly owned second hand cars built before the mid 1990’s – You can fix them yourself!
It would take and hour just to pull all that shit off to be able to get to anything.
As I own an IS and have worked on it myself, it takes no more than 5 minutes to either take the covers off, or put them back on.
The covers help improve airflow in the engine bay and keep the engine running cooler, and quieter as it doesn’t need as large of a fan. Also, if you look, you’ll see the intake to the airbox right infront of the engine.
As others have said, this has little to do with repairing a car, and everthing to do with IP control. This would be the flip side of that “admin” authored shill piece that showed up a while ago railing against this same legislation. Neither article is really addressing the issue forthrightly.
cdotson said, “These days there are powertrain control modules, body control modules, and who knows how many other brain boxes that aren’t nearly as standardized as ECUs, don’t all communicate with each other or using similar protocols”
That hits it right on the head for me as a consumer…the software is intentionally made unavailable and is often not done right. Screw the IP stranglehold, I want as many companies as possible to have access to my car’s codes. I want improvements to be varied and I want them to be affordable.
This isn’t however, an issue of poor rural home mechanics being stranded by their evil (of Axis power origin most likely) modern cars.
YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO WORK ON YOUR NEW CAR
Whatever Mr. Sloan dude. I’ll share a truth with you that nobody likes to hear: in any field of work, most people suck or are just mediocre, and a few are really good.
I know I will give a mechanic a hard time, but the fact is most of the time I do know more than them. It does hurt, just like it hurts when my Dentist is better with his Blackberry than I am. Some people are insulted, and some people would rather learn to be better than be offended.
Fact is most mechanics aren’t actually enthusiasts, or they aren’t crazy about your particular car, they see all kinds. That is great for general experience, but with the Internet enabling so much information sharing, the average enthusiast actually has the information advantage.
I recall having a discussion about oil type and grade with my local dealer with regards to my SRT-4. All he could tell me was what was reccomended in the computer. That is all he knows. And I am like “You don’t understand, we have discussed oil with the engineers at SRT, yes the guys who designed the car, the ones who help support the Mopar parts and the race teams…” how can the average mechanic beat that?
HighRPM & Power6,
Right on! The internet is a WONDERFUL invention for us backyard mechanics. Although it may take me a bit more time than a professional, I KNOW I’m doing the job right with the BEST part/fluid for the job. And it’s MY car, so no mysterious scratches or grease spots on the interior anymore….