Our friends over at wreckedexotics.com have hooked-up with realcartips.com (be careful when driving your exotic?). This week’s alert: luxury hybrids are a drug on the market. Hybrid Escalades are going for ten grand under sticker. Lexus dealers have been instructed to sell their remaining stock of 2009 Lexus 600h Ls for $10k off sticker. And, we might add, the rest. After all, the second you drive that $106k-and-up top-of-the-line hybrid off the lot, you’ll lose a LOT more than $10k. Still, the discount could take some of the heat out of torching 10 Grovers—and drive down the the price of pre-loved examples. A 30k LS 600h L is yours for around $75k. And the rest, now. At any price, the 600h L is one of the world’s best luxury cars— that’s destined to remain the deep-pocketed eccentric’s choice. Or, as was the case with the VW Phaeton, not.
Pile these next to the stack of unsold(unloved) Lexus SCs and see which stack vanishes first.
LS600h L: Great idea, meh execution. As stupid as it sounds, I blame the trunk. People that can afford such an expensive car are more than likely going to need to haul the golf clubs, the shopping trips, the suitcase runs to and from the airport and this Lexus can’t do it that well since the trunk shrinks, what, 50% due to the batteries and some kind of rear seat fridge?
This is Lexus we’re talking about so I’d expect the next version to improve on this – drop the price and reconfigure the trunk so there’s more space back there.
Robert:
The comparison with the Phaeton (I assume you mean its W 12 variety) is not really good. The Phaeton was a VW, NOT a luxury brand.
The LS 600h is not only a luxury Lexus, it is the only REAL luxury lexus, and not its smaller, cheaper siblings like the Camry ES350 and the IS and GS tiny 3- and 5-series competitors.
And the 600 is way more fuel efficient than the W12 will ever be, with its 8 speed auto and the hybrid mode. Not that those who buy it will care much.
There is $10,000 on the hood of brand new 2009 E-Class with a $50,000 sticker. That is 20% off, your point being?
If I ever want a luxury reliable large car with good MPG, 10 years from now, I hope I can get an 600h with 100-125k miles for $15-20k. It will last another 200k miles easy, if the reliability of the Hybrid Prius is any indication. But I ‘d rather drive my 98 magnificent 7 into the ground first.. it just exceeded the 129k mile mark..and still going very strong.
The ’08 LS you linked to is now two model years old. A 28% drop in two years is certainly not precipitous, especially compared to some of its competitors.
Mixing hybrid technology with luxury or premium sports cars (Lamborghini?!) completely mystifies me. They must only exist for marketing purposes, to impress your green friends without buying a tin can vehicle.
And I’m not moved by the argument that hybrids out-accelerate their non-hybrid ICE brethern; if that was the reason for having a hybrid, the mfrs would have done it before it was cool to have a hybrid.
Because there is NO hybrid payback on such a car. Oh wait, maybe luxo buyers have figured that out, and now the mfrs have to give away the technology for free.
Autosavant:
There’s no eight-speed auto in the 600h. That’s the 460’s transmission. This being a full hybrid, you get a planetary-gearset-based CVT, plus (in this case) a second planetary gearset to essentially provide a second gear (like the old-style overdrive). It’s halfway between the Prius setup and GM’s Dual Mode (two extra planetary gearsets, for four gears plus the CVT).
The question for me would be (and I say would because I’m far from being in the market for a car like this):
How much better is a new $100,000 Lexus LS hybrid than a new $70,000 Lexus LS460?
Is it $30,000 better? Is the $75,000 used Lexus LS hybrid worth it over the equally priced brand new Lexus LS460 non-hybrid that comes with a warranty to fix any one of a trillion gadgets that can break?
TZ
That price is . . . open to question. I’ve sent an email.
gslippy
Excrement. Digging implement. Gone! If that’s not your thing, the LS 600h L has every conceivable luxury.
Justin
LOADS better. My God, what an engine.
Spending $100,000+ on a hybrid to save a few mpg is like….what was the question again?
Twotone
Robert Farago :
October 19th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
That price is . . . open to question. I’ve sent an email.
A quick browse of cars.com found three ’08s in my vicinity (Texas), two listed at $76k and one at $86k, so the listing looks like it’s in the ballpark.
S550s are going for 14k off. They have a lower MRSP too.
That’s more % off for a car in the same class.
Why isn’t that getting attention?
Please do research before making it seem Lexus LS600hl is a sales failure. 10k off a 100k+ car is 10% off. 10% off MSRP is standard practice. It is still a high margin profit car.
And people don’t but this to get more MPG. It’s the silent, instant torque and bragging rights. Also subsidizing the new Li-ion technology.
>:o So many things wrong with this post.
Mixing hybrid technology with luxury or premium sports cars (Lamborghini?!) completely mystifies me.
Proposed EU regulations would basically outlaw cars from companies like Lamborghini and Ferrari – hybrid may be the only way to continue selling them while meeting CO2 targets.
When this model was unveiled our local paper did a “review” that incorporated feedback from a local billionaire. He loved the car.
Considering it was selling for about $130k here in Canada, you pretty much need to be a billionaire to buy one.
Spending $100,000+ on a hybrid to save a few mpg is like….what was the question again?
It’s for someone who is into the latest technology.
I’ve been a passenger in one of these. In urban gridlock it’s awesome: the car uses next to no fuel, and it’s really, really nice inside and really, really fast when you put the boots to it. The problem is that it’s a really, really small marketing niche. I can’t imagine Toyota/Lexus sells, or even builds many of these even in good times.
Now, that said, this is not the only large luxury sedan that’s rotting on the lot. Go and see how much you can get knocked off the sticker of an S-Class or A8.
I’ve said this before, but people really have to want to own a German car. Most people buying a Lexus would probably never consider a German car. This group includes those who once owned a German car, but were burnt by quality problems. At the same time, Lexi will never, and I mean never, have the aura of the German brands. Whether this is reasonable, or logical in any way, is somewhat beside the point. It’s just the way things are.
If you think the LS600h is stupid then wait till you see the new Mercedes S400 Bluehybrid.
http://www.epinions.com/review/2009_lexus_LSH/content_488428768900
The LS600h uses a powerful V8 and a powerful electric motor to make the car FAST. Faster than a Hybrid should be.
But it COSTS TOO GODDAMNED MUCH. Starts at $108,000 – which is ridiculous for someone who wants the Hybrid version when the regular car is only $80,000 loaded.
The Mercedes S400 looks cool but they put a goddamn V6 3.5L in it – TO TOW 5000 pounds LOL.
Its SLOW AS HELL.
http://www.epinions.com/review/2010_Mercedes_Benz_S_Class_Hybrid_epi/content_487024594564
THE LS600h’s electric motor can actually propel the car. The S400’s is only 20HP so it can’t move the car by itself.
If you are lucky to be the rear passenger in an LS600h you get to relax and kick out your feet on the massage recliner. But the LS’s driver position sucks while the Mercedes driver is more comfortable and has more “stuff” to play with.
The LS600 might as well have been just a limo.
for people who claim they think buying a $100,000+ Hybrid is stupid… I wrestled with that one too, but, keep in mind, some businesses use these as limos and they get crazy tax breaks on it while they end up paying up front for gasoline. Therefore when you consider that the LS600h gets 20CITY/20HW and escapes the gas guzzler tax the S550 gets hit with, it makes sense…a little.
Many are trying to view this car as a typical hybrid, when it’s about as far away from the hybrid stereotype as it could get.
It’s not intended to be a green-mobile; it’s intended to be a halo car.
If $10k makes the difference between a sale and no sale there must still be a lot of well-healed people around. I looked at these (not with purchase intent) and was astonished at how expensive they were. Great car, I am sure, but not on my budget.
there must still be a lot of well-healed people around.
1.1 million households in the US with income over 350k.* There are 3 million household with investable assets excluding primary residence in excess of $1 million.
In 2008 Lexus sold about 1800 LS460/LS600 per month.
* That is the Census figure, the IRS figure is higher and obviously the reported IRS number understates the true figure.
If it’s anywhere NEAR (better?) than the GS450h, I’d have one immediately.
BTW, Lexus are still near the top of resale performance, certainly here in Australia.
This car makes a LOT more sense without the hybrid, at $75,000 or so.
Autosavant :
October 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Robert:
The comparison with the Phaeton (I assume you mean its W 12 variety) is not really good. The Phaeton was a VW, NOT a luxury brand.
Agreed. Part of buying a luxury car is also the dealership experience, and Lexus’ is top notch. Step in to a VW story, and you’ll get some recent-college-grad-between-jobs type who knows nothing except how to tune the Jetta’s radio to the local hip hop station. This guy’s gonna sell you a $90,000 VW?
As a car, though, the Phaeton was really, really good.
And before we really trash this car, keep in mind Ari Gold drove one in ‘Entourage.’
Hey, if it’s good enough for Ari…
RF,
If I recall correctly, you didn’t think much of the Cadillac Converj concept, that using the same platform as the Chevy Volt wasn’t good for the Cadillac brand. Toyota, though, seems confident enough in their hybrid technology to give Lexus it’s own version of the Prius and to put Synergy Hybrid Drive in their flagship sedan. Hybrids seem to have some cachet in the market as technology leaders.
I haven’t driven the LS600hL, but the LS460L drives just like the Phaeton: massive, stout, silent, and deliberate. The analogy is a good one.
Autosavant, my LS430 is going on it’s 8th year of utter reliability. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend an LS and drive it into the ground in 15-20 years (my current plan), if you like this sort of car.
Autosavant :
And the 600 is way more fuel efficient than the W12 will ever be
About 90% of Phaetons I see on the road are V6 TDIs. Which
a) is enough engine for a luxury car without “sportiness”
b) is way more fuel efficient than the 600hl
c) costs 73,500€ vs. the Lexus LS600hL’s 112,250€
d) has a very good interior, unlike the Lexus
e) doesn’t have a 1980s digital clock like the Lexi have
I’d be very, very surprised if worldwide sales of hybrid Lexi were higher than sales of diesel Phaetons.
@Autosavant:
Keep in mind that at 10-12 years old and 125K miles, the batteries will have lost most of their ability to hold a charge. I would just get an old 460 and avoid that headache.
Keep in mind that at 10-12 years old and 125K miles, the batteries will have lost most of their ability to hold a charge.
Untrue.
1. There are plenty of examples of HSD vehicles travelling 200k miles without battery issues.
2. Lexus/Toyota state that the battery pack is expected to perform for the lifetime of the car. 20 years?
3. If, after 10-12 years, I had to spend $3k on a battery pack for a $100k ultra-luxury vehicle as one of the few “problems” with it, I’d be extremely pleased. The fuel savings more than pay for it.
4. The warranty is 10 years for the battery.
PeteMoran :
October 20th, 2009 at 7:09 am
3. If, after 10-12 years, I had to spend $3k on a battery pack for a $100k ultra-luxury vehicle as one of the few “problems” with it, I’d be extremely pleased. The fuel savings more than pay for it.
4. The warranty is 10 years for the battery.
Good point. That’s a lot less than it takes to keep a 10 year old BMW E65 7 series on the road.
This car is akin to ordering a double quarter pounder heart attack special with extra large fries and…. a diet coke!
b) is way more fuel efficient than the 600hl
It’s also much slower. The reason the W12 was compared is because it’s actually competitive with the LS600hL. At that power point, the LSh is more fuel efficient, especially in urban duty.
d) has a very good interior, unlike the Lexus
The other comments are fair, but lets be honest: the Lexus LS has a very, very nice interior, certainly better than the Phaeton’s. You may not like it, but it’s not “bad”.
I’d be very, very surprised if worldwide sales of hybrid Lexi were higher than sales of diesel Phaetons.
This is kind of a red herring. For one, Lexus never made many LSh cars. It’s a limited-availability model, whereas the Phaeton TDI more pedestrian. You’ll note that the Ford Focus outsells both for the same reason.
Now, that said, the Lexus creamed the VW (and the Audi A8, and the Audi & the VW combined) in North America and Japan. The Phaeton and A8, by virtue of being diesels, are going to sell better in markets like Europe, where that matters. Considering their highly regional appeal, I wouldn’t champion one over the other as a truly huge success.
This car is akin to ordering a double quarter pounder heart attack special with extra large fries and…. a diet coke!
No, it’s not. It’s like going to a very, very expensive restaurant that happens to serve vegan, organic, ethically-derived cuisine instead of veal or fois gras.
You could go to the farmer’s market, grow your own and/or practice veganism, but that’s not really the point, here. The point isn’t that the food is organic/ethical, it’s that it costs a shitload of money and comes with a “shitload of money” experience. The vegan/organic angle is, metaphorically, gravy.
Have serious doubts about this car. Gas mileage is 22 mpg in real use, 18 in MI winters. Caution all hybrid fans north of mason-dixon line. Just replaced rear struts/shocks (warranty) at 14K miles. It;s a great ride, smooth highway driver, ungodly expensive. Good thing the wife leased it.