The Tennesseean (and I raise you a Kentucky) reports that Nissan’s all-EV Leaf looks set to steal a march on GM’s electric – gas hybrid Hail Mary Chevy Volt. “With the rollout of Nissan’s first electric vehicles just over a year away in Tennessee, the race is on to figure out how to set up a network of charging stations swiftly enough to get ready. It won’t be easy. Thousands of chargers will be needed to satisfy Nissan’s ambitious plans to sell thousands of the clean-running cars in the first year as it strives to be the first automaker in the world to successfully mass market an all-electric vehicle.” In other words, the Leaf is going all-in with a close-to-base roll-out strategy. “Phoenix-based ECOtality Inc. has partnered with Nissan to set up the charging systems in consumers’ homes, as well as to create public networks in Nashville, Chattanooga and Knoxville and on the interstate highways between those cities.” And who, pray tell, is paying for all this? Well duh.
Lest we forget, Nissan scored a $1.6 billion no-to-low interest, twenty-five-year loan from the Department of Energy (DOE) to build more fuel-efficient vehicles. As for ECOtality, the company’s spokesman said “We believe in traditional American values of self-reliance, accountability and independent enterprise, free from government interference. We rely on our sources of funding.” Just kidding.
ECOtality has a $100 million loan from the U.S. Energy Department to help pay for the system, which will consist of “two layers of infrastructure,” said Colin Read, the firm’s vice president for corporate development.Read said the first 1,000 buyers in Tennessee will get free home chargers installed, which could run up to about $1,500 each for the equipment and installation combined. Without that help, the biggest expense for some Leaf buyers might be getting their home garage wired for the 240-volt chargers, which themselves could cost about $500 each.
The Tennessean reckons EV owners will be able to recharge their Leaf in twenty-minutes—provided they plug-in to a fast charger. Which will cost . . . drum roll please . . . $35k each. Cost whom? In other words, is that before or after existing/the next federal or state subsidy/tax break? No se. Clearly, no one’s letting good old-fashioned number-crunching get in the way of this battery-powered steamroller.
One drawback could be figuring out how to make money from the chargers.
Local ordinances generally prohibit the resale of electricity by anyone other than a utility company, so companies that install charging equipment might be forced to think of other ways to collect from electric-vehicle drivers. One end-run might be to rent the parking space where a car recharges for 20 minutes for, say $1.75, Perry said. “That would more than cover the cost of the electricity the car would use.”
Exact revenue models are still being determined.
Your tax money kicking-back at work. Oh, did I mention that the Leaf will be built in Japan until the automaker can finish its new EV factory (built with the DOE loan)?
Meanwhile, Nissan will spend $1 billion to build a plant adjacent to its Smyrna manufacturing facility to assemble the new, high-tech lithium-ion battery packs for the Leaf. Starting in 2012, the automaker plans to begin assembling the cars in Smyrna as well. Initial capacity there will be about 150,000 vehicles a year. Until then, the cars and batteries will be built in Japan.
You mean the car costs $35,000 or the fast-charger? If that’s the car’s price then I’m moderately impressed; there are crappy Chinese electric cars aiming to come in at around $30k and I know I’d take a Nissan, no matter how dumpy or dorky looking, over that kind of crap even if it meant spending an extra 5 grand. If that’s the charger’s price then that’s absolutely batsh!t insane and electric cars will obviously never work if the damn power cord costs as much as a C-Class.
I don’t have a problem with the DOE loans because, well, will pure “free enterprise” be able to save us when oil runs out (or gets dangerously low)? I can’t say yes or no, but I’m skeptical. We need to cut back on emissions and oil use now and if it requires some government help to jump-start initiative, then so be it.
Libertarian-style free-enterprise is dead anyway, if it ever existed at all.
What is with Asian designers and using fish or amphibious creatures as design inspirations?
I’m all for taking automotive technology to the next levels, but this thing looks like a salamander…it makes the new Prius seem almost sexy in comparison.
Oh, God. That “design” redefines the expression “face only a mother could love.” Somebody please kill THIS electric car.
Not to mention that the hopelessly convoluted boondoggle they’ve come up with to fuel these things already sounds dead-on-arrival.
I was impressed by the Altima. I was impressed by the performance giving yet reliable V6 Nissan made. Now I am really impressed by this gutsy car. This move has got to be made. Time to get off the pipe. Time to put asside the smoke, filth and the primitive fire.
Step up trasformers are simple in construction and are basically dirt cheap. No 35 grand per. Like this article says; It’s hard to figure out how to make money off something that is so available and cheap to the consumer as centrally generated electricity. The current auto industry and their Oil partners have tried to stall this inovation for two generations. As a human being, I am proud of this Nissan Leaf.
I know people like to bag the Volt, but a car like the Leaf is STILL limited to having to be plugged in in order to work.
Sure they might beat the Volt to market, or undercut it in price, but otherwise, this car is limited like every other electric car in existence….once the batter is drained, I have to hope I can find a quick charger, hang around awhile to juice up the battery, or plug in a normal charger for hours and wait.
To me, that’s the beauty of the Volt (if it works properly). You can use it like an electric, but if you want to take a long trip, fill her up in a few minutes and you’re off again.
I applaud Nissan for pressing the technology at the right time.
However, it’s got a face that only a mother (or EV advocate) could love.
Jerome 10: “…but if you want to take a long trip, fill her up in a few minutes and you’re off again.”
A big problem that should be solved by the EV dealer offering several free (or reduced-rate) rentals per year for vehicles (filled with Chavez’s Champagne) as part of the deal.
Who paid for all the gas stations at the start of the gasoline age? I doubt it was some government subsidy.
Are these chargers standardized so all upcoming electric and PHEV cars can use them?
My prayer for the day: Please God, do not let the news of Tennessee using government money for electric car charging stations reach the People’s Republic of New Jersey. For, Dear God, we are so taxed that we cannot support your work. Please God. Spare us from this pending Tax Monstrosity, for my neighbors are so eager to go Green with public money, that they’ve built a “green” police station in my town that was $9 million over budget, on a budget of $14 million.
Please God, just make the electricity go off in New Jersey for a couple of days ….
dwford: Are these chargers standardized so all upcoming electric and PHEV cars can use them?
Hate to say it, but either the auto industry quits p&^^ing on each other long enough to figure out some standards here or the Gummint Will (and should) Do It For Them. Cars, recharging infrastructure and home wiring cost way more than VCRs and HD DVD players…where battle of standards was fought out in the marketplace. Anything else will kill or severely retard the adoption of electric cars
@dwford: it’s small potatoes compared to the decades that the low price of oil been subsidized by our foreign policy stance and military interventions. Someone figured that the cost of the Iraq war, if added at the pump, would have doubled the price of gasoline.
Free market capitalism will do nothing about the intrinsic problems of our fossil fuel dependent economy until a sufficient crisis exists to make likely profits commensurate with the expenses to find a solution. Govt loans (not grants) to help develop sensible alternatives before the free market wakes up to the need is a rational way to get the ball rolling. Nissan is getting loans and spending the money to build a factory in TN, money that is expected to be paid back. Seems to me like a prudent thing for us to be doing.
Local ordinances prohibiting resale of electricity will drop like autumn leaves as soon as local businessmen realize that there is money to be made from recharging stations, and that people are choosing to visit or shop at other locales that do not have such prohibitions.
And we will of course generate this electricity using unicorn tails and pixie dust, Right? Because electricity is free and plentiful, right?
We would never use imported natural gas to power a power plant.
Since all good libs no that our plentiful coal is evil and that nuclear power is soooo dangerous I suggest we use global warming to boil the steam needed to power our new ecoboxes on wheels.
Fellas, fellas. There is a purpose to this goofy design. The engineers figured out that with an electric powertrain wind noise become more prominent (duh). So to help in that regard the head lamps were designed to help deflect air around the a-pillars.
MT has an article about this and the Leaf in the latest issue. So the next time your in a Hudson News at the airport check it out. But definitely don’t buy the mag.
For the near future, pure EV cars like the Leaf could benefit from a trailered generator for long distance power. There’s nothing magical about the concept, and as fervent as some early adopters are for their green wheels, the concept would sell.
I have a proposal for the EV companies.
Make me an electric car that can do 100 miles roundtrip without a recharge at 60-80mph average speed for $15k. This needs to work when it’s 90F out. It needs to work when it’s -20F out.
The interior can be econobox. The 0-60 can be 20 seconds. Make the battery range NOT fall under 80 miles in the first 10 years of life.
I don’t need gps
I don’t need a cd player
I don’t need power seats
I don’t need power anything, really.
I don’t need a heater
I don’t need AC
I don’t need airbags
I don’t need 4 seats — 2 is sufficient
I don’t need a trunk that can carry more than my backpack
if it can fully charge in 12 hours on 120v or 240v in my garage, that is fine.
I’m betting no company to do this now since the techonology simply isn’t there.
Show me the car. I don’t think I’m asking alot.
Here is another “leaf” Nissan copies from Detroit, really high incentives to move its BS vehicles! (by far the highest of any major Japanese maker)
When you sell JUNK, you have to deeply discount it. Hyundai’s success seems to have necessitated a FOURTY PRECENT increase of its incentives. Honda, as always, are the biggest cheapskates.
Avg. incentive Change
1. Chrysler Group $4,584………18%
2. GM $3,796 ………….6%
3. Ford Motor Co. $3,451…….2%
4. Hyundai-Kia $2,998 ………40% (!!!!)
(all manufacturers) $2,835 ………10%
5. Nissan North America $2,511 ….19%
6. Toyota Motor Sales $1,620 ……..22%
7. American Honda $1,310 ……..9%
Source: Edmunds.com
Way to go Nissan, you’ve found a way to keep your engineering staff gainfully employed until the recession is through.
Maybe I spent too many years living in Europe but… I like this car’s aerodynamically smoothed take on the Renault upright box style.
Not sure if there is enough room under the hood for an internal combustion engine (ICE) but if there is, it would be a nice place to start when they restyle the Versa.
Governments have been subsidizing socially beneficial technological advances and the infrastructure needed to support them since the dawn of the industrial age. They have used cash, loans, tax breaks and every other imaginable policy instrument.
Sometimes these advances work and the subsidized private-sector investors make a pile of dough, sometimes they don’t work and the subsidized private-sector investors get creamed. Sometimes they don’t work and the private-sector investors still make a pile. Sometimes, they do work, but not as quickly as expected, and while the original investors are ruined, new ones make a tidy sum. If you doubt this think about the history of the railway, shipping and aviation industries. Also think about possibly the largest single subsidized infrastructure investment in the history of the world: paved, free-to-use roads and highways.
Not sure we need to totally abandon the I.C.E., but we certainly have to reduce our reliance on burning fossil fuels. Climate Change is real, we already have the first coastal areas around the world being abandoned due to rising waters. There are also sound political-economic reasons for diversifying transport away from reliance on the small oligopoly of firms, financial institutions and states that dominate oil markets.
Given those circumstances it is hard to fault the US government for tossing out the carrots to attract some private-sector donkeys to the non-ICE vehicle market. Please also don’t forget that there is a stick in the background too. Even if Nissan (and other makers) lose a bit on the Leaf (and similar cars on their way). They still might pay off. They need to do something to offset some of the liability that they will incur under the new CAFE rules, or they will have to stop selling luxo-barges, super SUVs, and high performance sports cars.
Stopping every 100-miles for a 30-minute recharge will raise hell with a run to the coast!
This is a CITY car. Nothing with a 300 or less mile range is suited for a X-country trip. Most cars I have owned easily get 500 miles per tank on cruise control on the highway. And they include both my Accord coupe 5-sp 1990 with its 17 gal tank and up to 35-37 highway (usually 32 at higher speeds), and my 740iL 98 with its 22.5 gal tank and its usual 22-24 MPG at high two-digit speeds on cruise control.
DWFord: Who paid for all the gas stations at the start of the gasoline age?
In the early days, gasoline was sold in bottles in a variety of stores. Just like kerosene and lamp oil had been sold before gasoline was widely used.
That is still the way gasoline is sold in the rural areas of countries like Pakistan. Old Coke bottles are a favorite to fill with gasoline and sell.
As you note, the government did not pay for gas stations to be built. As demand for gasoline grew, special gas stations were built by private companies — often the oil companies — and gradually took over the market.
It’s a far better use of tax dollars than subsidizing the pensions of union drones building 10 mpg Dodge Rams.
It’s 2009, I’m 80, and I think I’ve got a severe mental block. I can’t comprehend a 20-30,000 dollar vehicle that will hardly get you around town and must sit for hours getting recharged.
Back in the 1930’s we had electric milk delivery wagons that did exactly that (they were so quiet all we heard was the clinking of the glass milk bottles on our doorstep). The wagons were all back in the dairy garage by early evening for their all-night battery recharge.
They replaced the horse-drawn milk wagons of that era. Exactly now… Say again?…What are we replacing?
“Read said the first 1,000 buyers in Tennessee will get free home chargers installed”
This offer will still be open in 50 years.
Climate Change is real, we already have the first coastal areas around the world being abandoned due to rising waters.
Really, could you identify the coastal areas being abandoned due to rising waters? And, tsunamis don’t count. It is my understanding that even if you accept that such precise measurements can be made, the level of the oceans has risen approximately 1 inch over the past 15 years. Doesn’t seem like enough to flood low lying coastal areas and send the people running to high ground.
“bigbadbill :
October 12th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
It’s 2009, I’m 80, and I think I’ve got a severe mental block. I can’t comprehend a 20-30,000 dollar vehicle that will hardly get you around town and must sit for hours getting recharged.
Back in the 1930’s we had electric milk delivery wagons that did exactly that”
Exactly. Electrics and even Hybrids and sure plug-in Hybrids are ideal for city fleets, taxis, meter maids, pizza and mail delieveries, even Police cars that idle all day long wastefully polluting the air,
not for private car owners that take long trips with their families and need (and get!) 500 mile ranges for their gas tank.
Nissan ought to foot the bill for the chargers if they want to develop the market. Otherwise, it should be a consortium of EV makers who foot the bill, but for ‘universal’ chargers that fit a common receptacle. I don’t know if Nissan’s is a proprietary connection, but that would be dumb.
After that, entrepreneurial electric resellers should get into the game. If the US government wants to encourage EVs, then it should alter the electricity reseller regulations.
Autosavant:
I absolutely agree with you. I think you may have missed my tongue-in-cheek attitude, but no matter.
My point being that it may be quite a while before an all-electric family sedan will be sitting in everyone’s driveway. Sorry I was so obtuse (or diffuse).
My family ran a substantial package delivery service in the greater Bridgeport, CT area using several dozen electric trucks, back in the 1920’s. They worked like the cat’s meow and I don’t know why they were eventually phased out. I think all the stores in town were getting their own (gasoline) delivery vans (door to door delivery by local department stores, markets, etc, was a “big thing” in the thirties). It fell off due to WW2 gas rationing and never recovered.
Many families have two cars, but how many need two cars with 500 mile range? Sure, the Leaf isn’t for everybody, but it would be a great second car for a lot of families.
I think it looks good. Not the vehicle for me though; I need range and a lower price.
Daanii2 : As you note, the government did not pay for gas stations to be built. As demand for gasoline grew, special gas stations were built by private companies — often the oil companies — and gradually took over the market.
Ding, ding, ding, you’re our grand prize winner!
Now who could possibly benefit from the creation of electrical stations that sell electricity for profit while simultaneously showing that they care about the environment? The electric companies of course, silly.
Doesn’t seem like such a stretch if there’s a buck to stretch.
m betting no company to do this now since the techonology simply isn’t there.
Well, based on what you describe, the technology is absolutely there. The price is the sticking point. Remember that you can only buy the most basic of cars for $15,000, and that’s using drivetrain components that have been commoditized. The hybrids are doing what you ask (and more) for the low $20,000s, though, and if the manufacturer yanked the engine out of a Prius and smacked in a larger battery (as some are doing themselves) you’d be able to get a 50-mile range for the low $20,000s. That’s not terribly far from the price point you’re looking for.
Anyway, for people like me (in Los Angeles), electric cars are perfect — we spend a lot of time sitting in traffic, and we have two cars, so one can be a gas-burner for long-distance trips. If I bought a Leaf for my eight-mile round-trip commute, I could get away with charging once a week — and when I’m sitting in the drive-thru for In N Out Burger, I won’t be wasting fuel. Sounds good to me.