The Chinese car maker Great Wall Motor, a Hong Kong-listed Chinese car company, is suing Fiat in China for industrial espionage. According to the Financial Times, this in “an apparent response to an Italian court ruling that Great Wall copied a Fiat car model.”
Last year, Fiat sued Great Wall both in Italy and in China for copying the Fiat Panda, which Great Wall sells as the Peri.
On Fiat’s home turf, Great Wall didn’t stand a chance: The court in Fiat’s hometown Turin ruled on July 16, 2008 that the Great Wall Peri “doesn’t look like a different car but is a Panda with a different front end.”
Yellow Peri (top,) the Italian Panda (bottom) – You decide.
The court in Torino said that the first GW Peri imported into Europe would cost a €15,000 fine, for each subsequent import, the fine would go up to €50,000 each. Europe was not invaded by the yellow Peri.
The Nissan Note – you decide again (Picture courtesy l.yimg.com)
The professionals at Car Design News opined that both the Panda and the Peri are a rip-off of the Nissan Note, but nobody wanted to point that little item out to the courts.
Not surprisingly, Fiat was not so lucky in China. Fiat sued at the Intermediate People’s Court in the capital of Great Wall’s home province, in Shijiazhuang. The court saw noticeable differences between the Panda and the Peri. The fine was more in line with other costs in China: Fiat was ordered to pay 8,800 yuan ($1,291) in legal expenses.
The evidence Fiat presented to the Chinese court may now be their undoing. Great Wall not only alleges that Fiat secretly photographed Great Wall’s top secret production facilities in Baoding. They say Fiat had already admitted to the spying to the Shijiazhuang court.
“We don’t have the exact photos, but in Fiat’s evidence, they said they had sent people to photograph Great Wall so in their material they acknowledged that they carried out this secret photography,” said Liu Hongkai, the lawyer representing Great Wall. (An American lawyer would have alleged that Fiat stole the Panda from a Chinese wildlife reserve, but China isn’t that far advanced yet.)
Great Wall is seeking an apology from Fiat and unspecified compensation for infringement of Great Wall’s commercial secrets.
Fiat of course claims their innocence, and that the allegations are utterly baseless. Fiat expressed to the FT their “wish to state that Fiat in its 110 years of history has never copied or imitated the design or the styling of any other car manufacturer in the world.” Some, including the good folks at Car Design Times, are of a different opinion. As in every kind of visual arts, car designers take their cues from each other, and there is a fine line between blatant copying and righteous inspiration.
Fiat has a lot more to lose in China than Great Wall in Europe. Great Wall never had any significant EU sales. Fiat Group operates a successful commercial vehicle joint venture with SAIC under their IVECO brand. Fiat exports (in moderate numbers) the Punto, the Linea, and the Bravo to China. This summer, Fiat announced a joint venture with China’s Guangzhou Automobile Group, which is scheduled to introduce a China-built Linea in 2011. The plant will have a capacity of 140,000 cars and 220,000 engines per year.
Then, there is Chrysler. Currently, Chrysler only provides imported vehicles under its Jeep, Chrysler and Dodge brands in China, which accounts for a very small share in the world’s biggest automobile market, without any local production. Chrysler’s new overlords may want to change this also.
Having been on the receiving end of lawsuits, Chinese companies now even copy courtroom tactics. They become aggressive in protecting their own patents and file counter-suits when they are accused of infringement.
The espionage counter-attack has become a favorite strategy. “Chinese companies that infringe intellectual property rights are increasingly adopting a strategy of claiming that investigations to gather evidence of their infringement actually constitute acts of industrial espionage,” said Elliot Papageorgiou, a partner at Rouse Legal, a law firm specializing in intellectual property cases.
The professionals at Car Design News opined that both the Panda and the Peri are a rip-off of the Nissan Note, but nobody wanted to point that little item out to the courts.
In that case Fiat must’ve engaged in some espionage at Nissan at well, since the Panda came out a year before the Note.
It’s generally accepted though that the Peri is a meld of the rear of the Note and Panda everything else.
Well, so much for Chrysler’s presence in China. If Fiat doesn’t back down, the Chinese will probably go after Chrysler’s operations next in retaliation.
This is such a familiar pattern for the Chinese. Google the Toyota Aygo and then the BYD F0. Look at them side-by-side. Same car. Toyota didn’t raise a stink because they don’t want to be shut out of the Chinese market.
(Formula One racing did raise a stink and forced BYD to change the name of the F0. It was originally called the F1.)
The Chinese suing a western European firm for industrial espionage? That reeks with irony.
In my previous life, I tracked Chinese military issues. Starting in the 80s, they’d buy very small quantities of military stuff, usually from French firms. The naive French always told themselves it would lead to bigger sales volumes. It didn’t.
Look at the 100mm guns on Chinese warships now. Direct copies of a French design. Look at helicopters on Chinese naval ships. Direct copy of a French design.
Like I said, this is rich.
These companies can’t honestly be surprised this is happening? This is something Chinese are known for. They are not very innovative but they are great at copying and making cheap knock offs. I still cannot fathom why any of them thinks it is worth it to get in bed with any of them. Is it really worth gaining access by basically giving up years and years of design information that they are just going to use to turn around and kick your ass with. As soon as the “agreements” are no longer convenient for the Chinese companies don’t think they will turn around and kick their partners out of town. It will be over as soon as they have everything they need or want out of it.
It seems GW people took the proportions of the Panda and the cues from the Note.
They seem different enough.
I’ve seen the Peri locally. For me it belongs to the “do not want” folder.
And Bertel, I think the Peri is red/orange/magenta, not yellow.
You might think that people would realize that, culturally, China does not respect IP. It is not a crime in their culture, and they only view it as one when it suits them.
I do understand that even with this being the case, there is far more profit in companies operating there than not, however this will not always be the case.
Unless the Chinese companies start working to develop their own designs and technology, they are doomed to failure when market saturation is reached in China. They will not be allowed to operate outside of the country if they attempt to copy other people’s IP, denying them an international market.
This is the Chinese version of heads-I-win, tails you lose. Complain about them copying you, and they sue you back on some trumped-up pretext.
Got no time for it myself. Apparently Toyota, craven with fear at losing even a single yuan of revenue, is willing to take it on the chin. Cross them off my future list of vehicle make to buy.
Ripping off other people’s intellectual property is the height of nastiness in my book. Got zero time for it. It’s not as if there weren’t brilliant designers and engineers in China who could get on with the job of creating something new themselves.
I think the Peri is closer to the Note in design, just a bit shorter. I don’t see why Fiat would have gotten themselves into this. There are plenty of differences in the design to easily tell the two apart. This just sounds to me like Fiat was trying to get rid of some “competition” in an underhanded way. About as underhanded as their takeover of Chrysler and our tax money that went along with it.
Italiaspeed.com says “Apart from its very large headlights and slightly different pillar treatment, the Peri’s dimensions are the same as the Panda’s to within just a few millimetres.”
If you use a photocopier to design a car, then you can hardly deflect criticism by saying you stole the headlamps and tail section from a third party.
Stingray, ‘yellow peri’ is a play on the old phrase “yellow peril” used to define the threat of Chinese communism.
Fiat should be careful how hard they push back, statement’s like “Fiat in its 110 years of history has never copied or imitated the design or the styling of any other car manufacturer in the world,” could come back to bite them. I’m sure there are more than a couple of manufacturers who could prove the opposite.
The fine was more in line with other costs in China: Fiat was ordered Fiat to pay 8,800 yuan ($1,291) in legal expenses.
Something is either not right in that sentence or Chinese courts are a lot more Kafkaesque than I thought.
Isn’t it nice to do business in a country with an independent judiciary?
The problem with doing business in a one party state is that should you have a dispute with a state owned company or, as in the case of Great Wall, a dispute with a non-state enterprise that the state favors, you’ll find your case adjudicated by a party controlled judge.
More than anything else, for an economy to truly thrive contracts must be enforced. When the state is your competition, your customer and also controls the judiciary, you’re not going to be able to get contracts fairly enforced.
Companies more interested in personal profit than actually competing in free markets will ignore the risks of doing business in one party states, but it will eventually bite them on the ass.
Perhaps calling car Panda would not invite imitation. What did FIAT expect? It is Chinese bear after all :)
The exterior picture of the Yellow Peri looks more like a Chevy Aveo than the Fiat Panda to me.
Ronnie Schreiber :
October 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
Isn’t it nice to do business in a country with an independent judiciary?
The problem with doing business in a one party state is that should you have a dispute with a state owned company or, as in the case of Great Wall, a dispute with a non-state enterprise that the state favors, you’ll find your case adjudicated by a party controlled judge.
—
Just like an Obama appointed judge handling GM/Chrysler restructuring?
Are you people kidding me, Fiat is finally protecting their designs. 90% of cars on the road owe their heritage to 128/autobianchi- Transaxle & timing belt! Fiat didn’t invent the timing belt
Honda’s first racing motorcycle was a Moto-Mondial copy! Well yes, but he obviously saw considerable room for improvement – Honda subsequently have become the foremost motorcycle tech leader, to somehow attribute this to the defunct Moto-Mondial is somewhat disingenuous. That God forsaken Datson was an Italian design house project for sure. Most of Datsun’s early vehicles were Austin based. And Speaking of Datson wasn’t the 1969 280zx a Ugly cheap Ferrari? No, and the 280zx didn’t come out till 1978 when Ferrari were making ugly cars of their own. The MR2 was an X1-9 or 914 (Bertone designed both) No, bertone didn’t design the 914. Bertone also designed rhe Golf (127) that saved VW. No, Guigaro/Italdesign designed the Golf
Timing belt: Glas (German).
Honda’s first racing motorcycles were “inspired”, shall we say, by Czechoslovakian, more than Italian, engineering.
Early Datsuns were indeed Austin-based.
There were plenty of mid-engine cars long before Bertone STYLED (not designed) the X1-9, therefore the MR2 need not be construed as a copy of the FIAT.
The Golf was Giugiaro’s handiwork.
You guy’s are talking samantics. The 128 was the first massed produced timing belt. I’m not talking My fair lady when I’m talking datsuns, and I meant the 240z looks remarkably like a Ferrari 246 GTS. And what english car designer didn’t appricate Italian design. And I meant the note was probably designed in Italy. Honda today with all their resources still must fight tooth & nail to out perform Ducati. “Honda subsequently have become the foremost motorcycle tech leader, to somehow attribute this to the defunct Moto-Mondial is somewhat disingenuous” You got to be kidding me. The only tech leader more advanced then Italian Motos are the British. And it goes to show unemotianal factory manufacturing is more profitable then hand made motorcycles. A real volkswagen is a beatle- Fiat BASED the original 500 on that with out photocopying it. Volkswagon commishined Ital design to return the favour, hence the Fiat 127 became the Golf & every other hatch back in Euroland. The 914 looks like no Porsche I’ve ever seen. 77′ GTS best looking Ferrari ever. What Czechoslovakian motorcycle ever one a race. MV Agusta is not Czechoslovakian. And to further my point- Japanese & Korean Car names. Sienna, Forza, Corolla, Sonata, Corona, Altezza, Murano, Stanza etc. Italian inspired names – Acura, Infinity with an I, Integra, Altima, Maxima, Katzo, oh sorry thats Civic. WWII Japan seized Italian wars subs, after Italy surrendered. And Audi is latinized or maybe Italianized Horch. Whats German for quattro?
And Suburus ripped off Alfa SUD, & Mitisbishi ripped EVO from Lancia. What am I saying they ripped off the whole ralley inspired road car. I saw a Lancia Delta Integrale EVO ralley, you sir are no Lancia Delta Integrale EVO. And GT! (Grand Tourismo) Who hasn’t ripped that off. Grand Tourismo Inizione (GTI) And Super Mario & Luigi, the hero’s of all Japan. Shesh. Why not Marek & Lomsky. I heard Marco Polo was Czechaslovakian, & Columbus was Portugese.
And Americo Verspucci, hmm I wonder who used his name. Well at least Italy is honoured by that one.