Toyota’s head start on hybrid technology is easily the most significant advantage any one automaker holds over any other. It’s next closest competitor in hybrid offerings is Honda which is facing serious challenges as its Prius competitor, the Insight, is off to an incredibly weak start. To capitalize on this advantage, Toyota plans to up annual production of its hybrids to one million units by 2011. Despite reports that Toyota is refocusing on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles as a long-term option, Yoshihiko Tabei, chief analyst at Kazaka Securities believes:
For the foreseeable future, the focus of Toyota’s (low-emission car) strategy will be on hybrids, not electric or fuel-cell cars. Except for Honda, Toyota is facing little competition in hybrids and is set to put distance between itself and other automakers
According to a report by the Nikkei, Toyota plans on introducing 10 new hybrid models over the next several years. Expanding the hybrid portfolio is crucial to Toyota’s ramp-up, as the firm produced a mere 500k hybrids this year, making up only 8 percent of total production. This strategy includes expanding the Prius family into a sub-brand, to include new models like the compact FT-CH concept shown at last week’s Detroit Auto Show. Switching its Mississippi plant to Prius production is another crucial component to Toyota’s ambitious hybrid strategy.
Emphasizing hybrids is a no-brainer for Toyota, but it’s not enough on its own. Automotive News [sub] breaks down some of the causes for Toyota’s decline in quality over the last year, which led to such embarassing incidents as the unintended acceleration flap and a Tacoma steering rod problem. The causes of these failures, according to Toyota’s quality czar Hiroyuki Yokoyama are:
- Toyota’s rapid increase in production.
- A proliferation of model types.
- More electronic controls.
- Swelling global ranks of employees.
- Customers’ heightened quality expectations.
Building more hybrids in more plants will make all of these problems more likely to pop up again. The Prius sub-brand project, while a better idea than Scion, also threatens to sidetrack Toyota’s once-legendary focus. And then there’s the issue larger financial results, as Toyota seems likely to rack up another North American loss this fiscal year. Toyota has some serious work cut out for itself.
This doesn’t quite ring true. With the possible exception of the unintended acceleration problem–has the cause been fully determined?–Toyota’s recent quality lapses have involved mechanical components, not electrical ones.
The Prius, which is electronics-intensive, remains among the most reliable cars based on responses to all reliability surveys, including TrueDelta’s Car Reliability Survey.
http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability.php?stage=pt&bd=Toyota&mc=272
Michael, it was good to put a face to the voice and words. Sorry I didn’t realize who you were at first, I was half asleep. I just got back from a quick trip to Cobo to see what the crowds were like during the public days and what they were looking at. The nice lady in the credentials booth told me ticket sales were up and people were indeed streaming into the convention center.
Unlike GM, Toyota acknowledge their problems and want to make it right and given their history, I’m guessing they’ll achieve their goal. A lot of people make comparisons between Toyota and GM, but the difference between the Toyota and GM is that Toyota have a history of trying to make things work, not just sit back and comfort themselves that it’s not their fault (I’m looking at you Lutz!).
The fact that Toyota acknowledge their problems, should be everyone’s first clue that Toyota will do something, rather than just have apathy. Despite the tone of my articles (sounds a bit rude), I believe Toyota will fix their problems.
Now whether they’ll do it before someone like Hyundai or Ford takes some of their customers, that’s a different issue.
Despite whatever problems, Toyota remain by far the highest regarded brand …
http://tinyurl.com/yla5522
“It’s next closest competitor in hybrid offerings is Honda”
I don’t think so – try Ford – unless the article is only referring to Japanese car companies.
For 2009, Honda outsold Ford in hybrids.
However, the Fusion hybrid is doing well, was introduced partway through the year (if I recall correctly) and I think Honda might fall behind Ford, unless they improve the Insight. Or something.
Isn’t Ford’s hybrid system licensed from Toyota? (i.e.,in this case even when Toyota loses, they win)
xyzzy
It isn’t licensed. It was similar, so Ford and Toyota traded some patents, but Ford’s system was developed in house.
10 new Toyota hybrids:
Yaris Hybrid
Corolla Hybrid
Avalon Hybrid
Venza Hybrid
Tacoma Hybrid
Tundra Hybrid
Sienna Hybrid
Rav4 Hybrid
4Runner Hybrid
Sequoia Hybrid
I don’t buy this rationalization. There is plenty of evidence of decontenting, value engineering and planned obsolescence in recent Toyota products. They figured car quality was good enough to take a hit without hurting sales, and it’s biting them in the ass. The ersatz aluminum trim in some Lexus models isn’t fooling anybody.
So the rusted out Tacoma frames were electronic? Imagine that.
John
The rusted Tacoma frame issue was from cars ten or more years old in most cases, and Toyota bought them back at over book value. People were scouring junkyards for Tacomas to sell back at a profit and Taco owners were by and large really happy with how it was being handled.
Toyota’s recent problems are really being blown out of all proportion by the autoblogosphere. Most quality rankings of their recent stuff looks more like exaggerated teething trouble, and even taking that into account they’re doing very well.
psarhjinian
Scouring junkyards wouldn’t have done anything as Toyota had rules on when you had to own the vehicle by. There were other people who traded the trucks in before the recall and lost a good deal of money by doing so. Not everyone was happy with how it was handled.
Also, other people claim that they were having problems with trucks not listed in the years recalled. Oh, and Toyota recent problems aren’t really being blown out of proportion. Toyota has had some significant recalls that didn’t even make the news. The cause of Toyota’s recent problems is irrelevant when the customer has to be in the shop.
There were other people who traded the trucks in before the recall and lost a good deal of money by doing so. Not everyone was happy with how it was handled.
By recall standards it was a pretty good one, though. There hasn’t been a company that’s done an above-book buyback of product more than a decade old. Ever.
Compare this to GM’s recall of plastic-intake manifold/Dexcool-damaged V6s. Wait, there wasn’t a recall for that, was there? And that’s hundred of thousands of cars over five years. Hell, Honda’s handling of the V6/5AT failures was abysmal by comparison: they’re installing rebuilt transmissions and then only after some teeth-pulling.
Also, other people claim that they were having problems with trucks not listed in the years recalled. Oh, and Toyota recent problems aren’t really being blown out of proportion.
Yes, they are. Not one reasonably-objective reviewing agency has noted epidemic problems with any of Toyota’s models. They have noted teething problems, but this “Toyotas are falling apart” meme has no basis in actual fact.
Toyota has had some significant recalls that didn’t even make the news.
One-off recalls, even if we’re talking millions of units, are not indicative of quality problems. The big one—the floormat issue—isn’t quality-related at all. When you’re talking about a company that sells millions of cars, and those cars share components with other cars that sell hundreds of thousands, any recall is going to be sizable. But a recall to file down the gas pedal or apply missing French-language airbag warnings means nothing.
What matters to consumers is cost to own and inconvenience. Getting two to three recall notices over five years is a non-issue, especially if the recall is handled quickly and simply at a routine oil change. What pisses consumers off is when the recalls are incredibly frequent (think 99/00 Focus: 14 recalls in a year, or the BMW X5 and Mercedes ML, which were well over ten), or when they don’t happen at all (Dexcool/Manifold) or happen in secret (my Saab’s sludge warranty, or Honda’s V6/5AT)
Again, if Toyota was really doing as badly as some people wish they were, you’d see it reflected somewhere. But it isn’t happening, despite forum wankery to the contrary. When GM, Ford and Chrysler’s quality was falling through the floor in the 80s and 90s, recalls weren’t happening and secret warranties were your best bet for remediation.
Open, public recalls, even in the millions, not only aren’t indicative or linked to quality, consumers just don’t care.
Hyundai will be announcing the Sonata Hybrid at the New York show in April. It’s one step ahead of the Prius in terms of technology and will be Toyota’s biggest headache in the hybrid market.
“Hyundai will be announcing the Sonata Hybrid at the New York show in April. It’s one step ahead of the Prius in terms of technology and will be Toyota’s biggest headache in the hybrid market.”
I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion, it’s total speculation on your part.
It’s not speculation. It’s in one of their press releases.
It will? Cramming a hybrid drivetrain into an existing mid-size chassis does not a 50mpg car make.
Yes, I read press releases too. I recall nothing that said that, making this speculation. (FYI: It looks like other posters agree with me too)
@mcs
I’d say wait and see. The press releases haven’t been unequivocal about mpg figures for the Sonata hybrid. They’re installing the same powertrain they’re using in their bluewill hybrid. Beyond that, as the other poster said, they’re putting it into a midsize sedan. We don’t know much more. I’d say Hyundai engineers are working on upping the mpg and the actual mpg numbers, if they have any, are due to change through time.
But I will admit this: If the 2011/2012 Sonata hybrid(s) manages to pull off 38+ mpg highway, that won’t be anything surprising as the Camry hybrid doesn’t get much worse numbers. 40+ mpg highway, and you’ll have me truly impressed. Then that’ll be something worth writing home about.
I’ve never been a huge fan of compact cars, which is why I’m more or less a mid-size/full-size car driver for life. In 5 years, my next car is probably going to be a gas and/or electric midsize. If Hyundai is able to create a big footprint in the hybrid market, all power to them! That just means I’ll have one more option to choose from and even if I decide to buy non-Korean, I’ll still benefit indirectly from the competition.
It’s one step ahead of the Prius in terms of technology and will be Toyota’s biggest headache in the hybrid market.
Will it? Aside from GM’s failed (from a marketing POV) two-mode system and Ford and Nissan’s licensed variants, every hybrid announcement has been some variant on the GM or Honda “mild” systems. Every indication from Hyundai was that their system was going to be something similar.
As much as we complain, Toyota has their eye on the ball. The future isn’t going to be running 15 mpg in a big V8 ICE – and for the next 10-20 years we are likely to see hybrids and electric cars become real forces (after which I expect a dominant tech to emerge, just as the ICE emerged as dominant in the early 20th century). They know that they have had slip-ups, while failing automakers generally claim things like a “perception gap”.
Ultimately the question is this: can they make another Prius? Toyota has seen the gap below the Prius and is ready to fill it (the FT-CH), but what about the gap above the Prius for a large car? If they just roll out 10 hybrids like the Lexus HS then they will be in trouble, but if they roll out a family sedan that is unique and better than the Camry hybrid and it’s competitors like the Fusion hybrid, well, then they will be set.
We will see if they can turn the FT-CH into something viable in a decent amount of time. That’s the first test.
I’ve always found it odd that Toyota plans to make their most complex, visible product (the Prius) in a brand new plant in a state with a poor reputation for education and workforce skills (Mississippi).
Mississippi’s reputation may well be undeserved, given the amount of Navy shipbuilding going on there, but the perception exists.
The complexity in the Prius is in its design, not its assembly. Putting together a Prius is 95+% the same as assembling any other car. Quality is the area where you worry about the make up of your workforce.
Speaking of quality, the reasons for the quality issues given by Yokoyama above are so much hooey. The root cause for almost all of Toyota’s quality issues over the last 5 years stem from the design of the part or section of the car combined with not enough testing to find potential issues. This combined with the use of certain designs across models (ie accelerator pedal and floor mat configuration) magnifies a failure in one of those shared designs. Typically you aren’t going to see a lot of manufacturing defects on a Toyota or really most other vehicles these days.
Patrick,
Believe me, I thought the same some years back when Honda started up a new plant in Alabama. But my friend who’s been going to Alabama for his job in projections under the govt said the place is a boomtown for industry. Boeing has some work located there and clearly the uneducated workforce, if it’s there, isn’t a real issue. That place has it all. Engineers, cheap cost of living, and no unions. An automaker’s wet dream.
I’ve always found it odd that Toyota plans to make their most complex, visible product (the Prius) in a brand new plant in a state with a poor reputation for education and workforce skills (Mississippi).
Toyota has traditionally had very good luck in bootstrapping new facilities and dealing with an untrained workforce, so much so that their sponsorship model (eg, an existing facility effectively sponsors and trains up a new one) is a model for this kind of implementation.
Assembly really isn’t the cause of quality problems, at least not in the sense that most people think. Workers really have very little control over quality beyond what management enables, good or bad: the QA process they can take part in are defined (or not) by management, and the designs they build, the equipment they use, the parts they receive; they’re all outside their control. “Lordstown syndrome” isn’t really applicable here.
Maybe, or maybe not. The new Tundra launch from the SA plant didn’t go so well.
Maybe, or maybe not. The new Tundra launch from the SA plant didn’t go so well.
Part of that has been some minor and mostly corrected design deficiencies (the camshaft problem was quickly and thoroughly dealt with; the bed flex and tailgate issues are mostly being done case-by-case and reasonably well). Most of the Tundra’s problems are similar to the Ford Flex’s: good product, but launched right into the maw of the nastiest gas price spike in twenty years that was quickly worst recession in fifty.
None of this has anything to do with the workers in San Antonio.
A few things people should note. I’m a big proponent of reading trends and making predictions.
First things first, kudos to Toyota for entering the hybrid with a nice big bang. The Prius truly was a show-stopper with its amazing MPG and even politicians here in California constantly toting it as a symbol of the future. I’ve taken rides in this car (2nd gen) on several occasions and have always been amazed at the car’s ability to handle all bumps and shocks smoothly and glide effortlessly despite its gas/electric powertrain. The futuristic button ignition, the rear-view camera, and speaker system add a nice touch to this car on top of the unique aesthetics. It’s in these areas I can tell Toyota’s leadership decided long ago not to compromise on the Prius’ quality.
However…
I’m a little worried about the direction Toyota has been taking in the last 8-10 years. I’ve been reading more and more articles about Toyota’s cars’ decline in quality. I’ve heard only good things about the Prius, but more negatives about the Corolla, the Camry, and the Avalon the company’s bread and butter. There seems to be a new trend toward the usage of cheaper plastics in its interior, a ride quality that compared to those made in the late 90’s and even smaller rivals like Nissan and Hyundai isn’t as refined. I’m hearing also about pedals getting stuck and the Toyota leadership being very quiet about the true cause of the sudden accelerations. I guess it’s a relief that the head of the motor company who was responsible for upping the number of factories while losing focus on quality was recently replaced by the grand-son of the company founder, Toyota after the company board chastised him for his actions.
I’m all for companies meeting shareholder expectations by increasing sales and profits. But I sure do hope that the Prius maintains or even improves over the generations. So far, the 3rd generation Prius has garnered mostly praises. Let’s hope it stays that way for the 4th…the 5th…and so on.
I, too, believe that Toyota/Lexus quality has really gone down over the past 8-10 years. I’ve bought about 10 of their cars over the past 20 years, and noticed an obvious drop in quality starting with the 2001 Camry I bought – it’s interior was cheap (ill-fitting panels etc) & the engine received a warranty extension due to a supposed sludge tendency. I dumped it for an 02 Camry – it had a nice interior but loads of rattles, plastic pieces inside/outside the car falling off (TSBs for all), the alleged sludge issue, and actually had the wrong stereo installed at the factory (window sticker said CD changer, but single disk unit was installed). I had a 1st & 2nd gen Prius; both were superb quality-wise. Later, I got the wife a Lexus ES330; it had a horrid transmission issue – the engine wouldn’t rev and the trans wouldn’t engage for several seconds after the gas pedal was pressed under some circumstances. This was mostly fixed a year or two later with a TSB. I later got an ’07 Camry XLE V6 when they first came out. Interior build quality was horrible due to bad engineering, not assembly. Panels didn’t line up, rattles everywhere, and a transmission that slipped, thunked, and eventually completely failed within 2 months of ownership. The dealer replaced the trans under warranty, doing a horrible job resulting in numerous returns to the shop, and Toyota’s corporate office refused my request for a buy-back, robotically repeating the mantra that they only need to honor the warranty. I pointed out to them I’d read Lexus ES350s were being bought back due to bad transmissions according to Internet message boards, and they arrogantly told me that “Lexus offers a higher level of customer service to their customers”. I foolishly gave the company another chance and traded the lemon Camry for a 2007 Lexus ES350. Surprise! Despite the corporate assurances that they’d fixed the trans issue, it too had a transmission slip & thunk issue (although not as frequent/pronounced as the Camry). The $40k car also was plagued with the following failures in the first 6-12 months: xm receiver failure, A/C core defect (spewed white powder into car), gear shifter, engine piston slap, rattles galore, nav system buggy as heck (lockups, data not updating, voice guidance doesn’t match what’s on screen (robot says “take exit 5”, but screen shows exit 123)), failed HID bulbs, loose exterior trim, click in steering column, bad telescoping steering mechanism, etc. A coworker of mine also has an ’07 ES350 and has the same transmission problem, plus an intermittent no-start problem (known issue – TSB for defective start button). I naively asked Lexus to buy back this lemon after 2 years of putting up with the dealer saying “it’s normal!” and/or fixing/breaking things. I told them the history above and that I’d consider getting another Lexus if they accommodated me. After the factory rep looked the car over, Lexus sent me a letter declining the buy-back stating that my concerns are “normal operating characteristics”. An example of my engine’s piston slap that’s “normal” is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN0VA5L1b1w. Judge for yourself whether Toyota’s quality has fallen. Numerous other owners of the ’07 ES350 complain about the same thing on various forums, so it’s a known issue. Now, I see a number of reports of an oil line bursting in Toyota/Lexus cars having the engine that’s in my ES, so I have that to look forward to. In my opinion, not only has Toyota’s quality plummeted below unacceptable levels, but they are not making any effort to retain loyal customers.