The markets aren’t entirely convinced with Toyota’s efforts to reduce costs in North America. “Cost reduction in the U.S. hasn’t progressed much,” says Koji Endo, general manager of Advanced Research Japan in Tokyo. “There’s more room to cut costs there, but what’s most needed in the U.S. would be further reductions in parts and workforce costs.” This puts a lot of pressure on Yoshimi Inaba as he was headhunted by Akio Toyoda specifically to turn Toyota’s NA division around.
One issue which will have ramifications for Toyota in North America are their quality issues. “The one thing they have to rectify is they took a reputational hit because of some quality issues, the recall.” said Efraim Levy, a New York based equity analyst at Standard & Poor. “If it persists then it can become very damaging.”. What does Mr Inaba have to say about this issue? “The solution is addressing the cause of this issue,” Inaba said. What a feeling! And that feeling, I suspect, is anxiety.
At the moment, most of the blissfully-ignorant car-buying public still believes Toyotas are the finest conveyances legal tender can procure (an L.A. Times article can only go so far) and their relentless marketing arm continues to reassure people that they are correct in that belief (trifling things like ‘facts’ be damned).
Unless Camry and Corolla engines start falling off their mounts on the expressway in noticeable numbers, Toyota is still in overall good shape reputation-wise, if not monetarily. More cost-cutting will undermine this. I find it doubtful they’ll be able to simultaneously improve quality and reduce costs…when has that ever worked?
It doesn’t work, and a lot of Toyota’s quality problems stem from a rush to go from concept to production. Toyota developed, and continues to develop, a huge database of research on various auto and truck components and systems, but their reliance on using the results of their research and on using computer modeling, rather than physical prototyping and testing, led Toyota to not discover problems that would have come out in real world testing. This previous product development system helped Toyota stay “lean & mean”, because physical prototyping and testing burns through cash and takes time. The current issue with the acceleration/gas pedal problem is a case in point, because the “fix” for existing cars sold is taking more time, and money, than Toyota would like, and their preventative solution they promise for future product is adding cost to their cars and trucks that Toyota is loath to accept under “normal” circumstances.
Most of the comments, here and else where, dismissing Toyota’s quality issues, display a level of ignorance about how the auto industry actually works, that should surprise me, but doesn’t.
Toyota have several future paths in North America.
1. Improve quality to prior levels (which will mean higher prices compared to competition, gradually reduced sales compared to upstart low-cost builders such as Hyundai, and probably continued losses)
2. Cut costs to the bone and do as best they can with quality (“doing a GM” in terms of future long-term results, say, 30 years down the road – with probably similar results to GM 2009)
3. Say “screw it” (in whatever manner that the Japanese do this) and pull out of the USA * until such time as things turn around here (certain pundits are saying 5 to 15 years, with the likelihood of the Greatest Depression lasting at least another 10 years).
Needless to say, #3 would shock the living daylights out of the people in Washington DC, because it would yank the rose colored glasses off of those willing to see the reality of the situation.
The most profiable, ostensibly best run automobile manufacturer in the world with the best future hybrid technology, cannot make a profit in the USA *, but it can everywhere else it operates.
This speaks volumes about American fiscal and deficit and exchange rate policies more than it says anything about Toyota.
#3 would also be an obvious problem because in Japanese culture Toyota would be “shamed” to some extent and might be expected to return in 10-15 years under a subsidiary name, such as Daihatsu (which may not be a bad idea since Daihatsu are the experts in very small cars).
So Toyota have to consider, in my humble opinion, whether they can stomach continued losses and/or possibly degradation of their reputation to stay in a market which makes up 5% of the world’s population and which is saturated, with two Government supported car companies in competition with them – with the unspoken assumption that these two car companies have virtually unlimited funds behind them (at least for awhile – see British Leyland and Renault’s histories for examples of how this works out….)
OK flame away. I’ve got my asbestos long johns on.
* corrected – from North America.
Take off the asbestos, Menno, haven’t you ever heard of mesothelioma?!
Seriously though, Toyota leaving the U.S. is just not ever going to happen. The Camry is the top selling car in the country, and the Corolla is in the top ten every year. They’ve also had great success with the Prius, Tacoma, and their Lexus brand here. Why would they leave these shores, losing over a million car sales a year, just to save face? Cost cutting is what needs to happen, and it can be done without Toyota becoming GM in 20 years. Toyota doesn’t have a union to contend with like GM does, and I seriously doubt that their methods of cutting costs will turn out cars like the garbage GM cranked out in the ’70s, ’80s, and ’90s. You can make a car in the U.S. inexpensively, and still make it good. Take a look at what Hyundai pumps out of their Alabama plant if you want an example. Toyota just needs to reevaluate some things, trim some fat, and roll on. They can turn a profit in the U.S., it will just be more challenging in the hard times.
Wow. I think a tinfoil hat might be more valuable than asbestos underwear.
First of all, their quality reputation has already taken a hit, and there’s more problems on the way, most of this due to Toyota’s R &D methods that tried to shorten the time from concept to production. Second of all, there’s only so far their cost cutting can go. For all the B.S. criticism of the Detroit car makers cost structure verses the transplants, especially Toyota, what never received a lick of publicity was the fact that their lower cost structure revolved around, at the time, the use of as “temps” and contract employees, both in production jobs and in white collar jobs, for as much as thirty five percent of their workforce. With all of those people laid off by January, 2009, Toyota’s cost structure in North America now revolves around the so-called permanent “Toyota Associates”, all of whom have income and benefits close enough to the Detroit auto makers, that Toyota North America now swims in the red ink pool.
Couple this with failures like the Tundra pickup, and the under utilized San Antonio truck plant (even with shifting Tacoma production to San Antonio, the plant is still at least 20% under utilized), and the totally unused, but finished Canton, Mississippi plant, and I see little way Toyota can cost cut their way to profitability in a 12 million sales unit per year market.
Somehow I find this hard to believe, Here in Ontario Canada there sales are way up an have been for the last little while, I know our market is small but its Steady for Toyota even though our dollar is heading towards parity with the US one, the days of a cheap dollar are now gone thanks to our Petrol,Gas and Electric supply.
BTW Hi Cammy, I hope you DO have some real long johns (insulated long underwear?) – just checked the weather in the UK this morning and it seems like you are all still suffering with unseasonably cold weather and once-every-10-years levels of snow.
It’s actually pretty warm today. It’s the snow which is bothering me. Still, I have a roaring fire and the internet to keep me company.
As for Toyota, I personally think they can ride this out. What’s making this recovery difficult for car makers is the fact that the NA cake is getting smaller and more and more car companies want to have a piece. Had GM and Chrysler been consigned to the history books, you’d see a more profitable Toyota, Ford rising faster and Hyundai becoming stronger. But because we have 2 entities which shouldn’t be there, it’s stifling other companies.
Based on the clueless comments I see here and in the media, Toyota’s strategy is working.
Toyota is the automaker with the biggest pocket as it sits on tens of billions in cash. Most automakers are deeply in debt. Toyota knows there is no benefit in showing off.
You can’t really ask your suppliers for cost cuts and your own workforce to accept reductions in benefits and wages when you’re generating solid profits and you’re stinking rich.
There are many ways to make profitable operations to appear as generating a loss.
For example setting up a separate company for all your procurement needs…
That company will generate huge profits by buying parts, tools and materials and reselling them at a huge mark-up to the ”North American division”…
If North America doesn’t move back above a 12 million sales unit per year market, Toyota is going to burn through that pile of cash. Their labor cost structure took a sharp hit and rose early last year when they laid off all the “perma-temps” and contract employees, the unused Canton, Mississippi plant exists as a financial albatross around their neck, and San Antonio is under utilized, and contributing to their red ink. Further exacerbating the problem is that their home market is shrinking, as younger Japanese reject the idea of car ownership.
As much as I love to beat up on Toyota I’ll have to admit this time that I don’t think this is a harbringer of terminal decline. I think the temporary problem is much simpler, a combination of the current economic downturn and the fact that their cars are tired and need replacement. They don’t have a car (outside of the Prius) that sells itself, they have a brand reputation that sells cars. The Camry simply is not as nice as the Accord or Fusion right now (and it certainly was competitive when it was released), and Hyundai is matching Toyota’s reliability rep. with that warranty from heaven while undercutting them on cost. The Corolla is not competitive on the details like interior materials and handling feel (as compared to most anything in class), while cars like the Forte are set to eat it’s value leader lunch with standard options, low stickers and again, warranties.
These are not OMFG Toyota must leave NA problems, but rather, get off your lazy ass and provide improved product problems. If the core of their reaction consists of cost cutting measures, it will not lose them droves of customers, but will allow a steady chipping away at their market position by rivals over the next few decades.
…for the second year in a row, Toyota have resigned themselves to the notion that their North American division will post a loss this fiscal year
And this is different from just about every major manufacturer how?
The only companies that aren’t bleeding in North America as those who, due to woeful product planning or sheer lack of size, don’t sell much here. There’s a recession, and it his the US very hard. The question isn’t whether or not you’ll post a loss, it’s how well you can weather the losses vis a vis your competition exploit that position when the market picks up.
One issue which will have ramifications for Toyota in North America are their quality issues.
Those quality issues don’t really exist outside of the blogosphere’s reality-distortion field, and no amount of crying on the part of wishful fans of other brands about “how Toyota is getting a free pass” will change that. In terms of a) consumer perception and b) actual objective evidence, their holitistic quality hasn’t changed much in a decade.
I know people want to believe that there’s a quality gap, and that a lot of auto scribes have problems with the transition to harder plastics that every manufacturer has made**, but by objective measure this supposed “quality problem” isn’t significantly there.
** I’ve gone on about this for a while. Prior generations, raised on the idea of wood and leather as the trappings of luxury, have trouble with how modern cars ape high-end stereo equipment and see it as cheap. Current generations, raised on brushed aluminum, clear acetate and piano-black as those same trappings, really don’t care that the dash-top is hard. We’ve been buying very expensive cellphones and stereo equipment utterly devoid of wood and leather, and as such we don’t care that the dash of our cars doesn’t ape the luxury standard of decades past.
Just for the record… a hard plastic dashboard is cheaper to manufacture than a soft touch one.
People love to write about the big guys falling…and falling from grace, which is why Toyota’s quality “problems” get so much press. The reality, is Toyota’s brands own 3 of the top 7 reliability positions, in Consumer Reports latest survey, including the highest with their Scion brand. Ford, at the 18th position, would love to have Toyota’s quality problems.
Yes, Toyota has had a glitch or two and haven’t had the same continuous improvement progression as they used to recently. On the other hand, they were already very, very good so there was less room for them to improve vs. the competition.
More recently, Toyota has been working hard to increase commonality between platforms and components and reduce cost anywhere it doesn’t effect perception or quality.
Toyota’s problem is as much a statement of the current economic times as anything else. It is something that all very large companies face in tough economic times. It is more difficult for large corporations to scale back production and still pay for their huge infrastructure.
I expect that coming Toyota will continue to cut costs and come out of this recession in much better shape than Ford or any of the U.S. auto companies.
The current threat to all auto companies is the overcapacity that exists in the market today. If some of these companies had been allowed to fail when they weren’t viable, the market wouldn’t have so many companies willing to sell cars at a loss to move them and profit margins would be better. No where is that more true than in the North American auto market.
I don’t think you’re right about the quality gap, although you are certainly right about the switch to hard touch dashes. The Toyotas I was recently in had a less attractive hard plastic dash finish (the radio surround specifically stood out as blah) than I was seeing at other dealerships, as well as a completely forgettable test drive experience. Every other manufacturer had a “check this out” moment, Kia’s bluetooth and warranty, VW/Mazda with interior goodies and great test drives, Honda with bizzare dash styling and ridiculous redlines, etc… Toyota used to stand for well optioned and cheap as well as reliable and the well optioned thing hasn’t been kept up to date with the competition.
The dash complaints (and I agree with you on this) you are referring to are coming from people who test drive moderately upscale cars and then compare them to lower cost vehicles. Sure, the GTI has a soft, beautiful dashboard, but it also comes in $2-3k more expensive than a Civic Si or Corolla S.
Toyota was hell bent on speeding up the time from concept to production, and relied very heavily on computer simulations as opposed to real world prototyping and physical testing. Consequently, Toyota’s current quality problems, which aren’t really all that current, are the tip of the iceberg, and Toyota knows this, as do all of their suppliers. Contrary to your post, the quality issues actually do exist in the real world, which has led to recalls, plus numerous safety and warranty related lawsuits, including lawsuits over the engine sludge issue, irreparably rusted Tacamo and Tundra truck frames, transmission failures, electrical system failures, and the list is growing. You don’t fix problems like this in the short run, and more negative publicity over these issues is likely, due only to the volume of problems that are just now coming to the surface.
psarhjinian- +1
Spot on commentary.
Bunter
Consequently, Toyota’s current quality problems, which aren’t really all that current, are the tip of the iceberg, and Toyota knows this, as do all of their suppliers. Contrary to your post, the quality issues actually do exist in the real world, which has led to recalls, plus numerous safety and warranty related lawsuits, including lawsuits over the engine sludge issue, irreparably rusted Tacamo and Tundra truck frames, transmission failures, electrical system failures, and the list is growing.
First, most of the issues you’re quoting are from pre-2000 models, which is well before the psychological “Toyotas started to suck” date most people think of. Those Tacomas and Tundras are 90s vintage, and the sludging issue affected two engine models made from 97-01.
Second is that despite your claims, the actual quality rankings, recall rates, problems per rate haven’t changed. Most of the rest of what you’re quoting, quite frankly, isn’t happening. If Toyota had real, endemic problems, you’d see it in objective sources in much the same way we saw Honda’s V6/Automatic problems from 01-04 scored across the ratings tables of CR/CG/JDP/etc. But those problems, first-year teething aside, aren’t there.
You’re falling into a very common media trap: one whereby if you hear allegations repeated often enough, you’ll start to give them some credence despite objective evidence to the contrary. It’s a common and very easy tactic used by many marketers and public relations people, and it’s terribly effective because people will inherently believe it.
Actually, psarhjinian, there are more problems than I listed, and it has ZIP to do with the media. Frankly, your comments show who’s falling into which common media trap. Toyota’s Tundra problems extend into the current model, including broken cam shafts, failed drive shafts, body flexing problems (the “Toyota Bed Bounce”), brake problems. The transmission problems affect 2005 through 2007 Camry and Avalon (which led Consumer Reports to withdraw their usual Toyota recommendations, for one year, in early 2008, and according to a 2007 Automotive News story that Toyota did NOT dispute, the sludging problem extended to virtually every gasoline engine including V-8 Lexus models, albeit at a lower rate than the others, but went all the way to the 2005 model year. The largest of the engine sludge class actions didn’t settle until jut last year, and includes plenty of 2001 through 2005 model year plaintiffs.
Recall rates for Toyota started going up in the late 1990’s, with Toyota recalling more cars in 2005 than it sold, and having another record year for recalls in 2008, with Toyota having more recalls in 2008 than much criticized GM, so your facts are way off there. In 2004 and 2006, Hyundai outscored Toyota in the J.D. Powers J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, and in 2006 Toyota executives in Japan got hauled up before Japanese government regulators to explain their recall policy to those regulators after a high-profile accident involving Toyota’s Hino Truck subsidiary, all of which led to my third point:
Third, Toyota’s own leadership (then President Katsuaki Watanabe), in Japan, in 2006, order a slow down in Toyota’s product development due to the increasing numbers of quality problems, so again, please check your facts. While I’m typing this, I’m double checking my facts with Automotive News and Wall Street Journal’s web sites.
Len,
Are you a Toyota insider?
Otherwise how do you know that their ‘computer simulation’ is a f-upped excuse for real world testing, or that they don’t do extensive real world testing?
If you are an industry insider, I apologize for even questioning you – but really you can’t blame me because any bare-assed pre-pubescent with a keyboard can quote Internet rumours as fact. (Not that I think that you are a bare-assed pre-pubescent; but you know what I mean.)
srogers – Automotive News had a real nice, long article about five years ago, on how much theoretical research Toyota did, and built up this huge data base on different automotive systems and components. I’m not knocking them for that – they themselves, in interviews for Automotive News and Ward’s Auto World, talked about how they were trying to shorten the concept-to-production time frame.
They aren’t the only ones doing this – all the automakers have done this. But Katsuaki Watanabe was the one who let the cat out of the bag, in 2006, when he not only told Automotive News that he was ordering a slow down in the product development cycle, but ordered an increase in prototyping. I just remember my jaw hitting the ground when I read that – and for all the claims now about “media traps”, the mainstream news media, as well as financial media like Wall Street Journal, ignored Toyota’s quality problems, like the engine sludge issue and the Camry and Avalon transmission problems, even though Automotive News covered these issues all the way back to 2002.
And I was in the industry, as a vendor, for over twenty-five years, and my wife spent ten years as a paralegal involved on the manufacturer defense side of safety and warranty liability litigation. She used to have great access to all the NHSTA investigations of ALL the automakers – you end up with no illusions about Toyota’s quality after five minutes of that reading. No offense taken.
srogers – Automotive News had a real nice, long article about five years ago, on how much theoretical research Toyota did, and built up this huge data base on different automotive systems and components. I’m not knocking them for that – they themselves, in interviews for Automotive News and Ward’s Auto World, talked about how they were trying to shorten the concept-to-production time frame.
They aren’t the only ones doing this – all the automakers have done this. But Katsuaki Watanabe was the one who let the cat out of the bag, in 2006, when he not only told Automotive News that he was ordering a slow down in the product development cycle, but ordered an increase in prototyping. I just remember my jaw hitting the ground when I read that – and for all the claims now about “media traps”, the mainstream news media, as well as financial media like Wall Street Journal, ignored Toyota’s quality problems, like the engine sludge issue and the Camry and Avalon transmission problems, even though Automotive News covered these issues all the way back to 2002.
And I was in the industry, as a vendor, for over twenty-five years, and my wife spent ten years as a paralegal involved on the manufacturer defense side of safety and warranty liability litigation. She used to have great access to all the NHSTA investigations of ALL the automakers – you end up with no illusions about Toyota’s quality after five minutes of that reading. No offense taken.
It’s Toyota is not Toyota are.
Cammy is in the UK, and that’s how it’s done there. We’ve covered this a number of times; the US does not have a monopoly on English language grammar.
Haven’t you ever watched Hockey Night In Canada? “Detroit are playing well tonight”.
British and Canadian English treat collective singulars as plurals.
Yes; I’ve lived in the UK myself (9 years out of don’t ask/more than a few moons) and I’m continually having to stop and think “um, English, or American?” when I speak or write.
Sometimes spellcheck has a cow, too. Especially when I’m tired or distracted; I tend to slip into “mid-Atlantic” mode and use a mixture of English and American grammar and spelling!
People who know me at least forgive my foibles. It’s not like it’s really hurting anyone…!
Toyota are …..Toyota have….
It’s Toyota is not Toyota are.
I agree. Why do we keep seeing this type of mistake in grammar on TTAC? Do the British really use plural verbs with singular nouns?
Yes! See my comment just above yours. It may come as a surprise to you, but Americans are not the only English speakers in the world.
English came from “England”. Get it?
Though we were very happy with ours, Toyota’s reported quality problems led us to purchase an Acura and an Infiniti the last times we were in the market. I don’t know how typical we are, but it can’t be good news for Toyota.
As a Toyota owner, I’m not terribly concerned about recalls. I see them as a commitment to making it right, if you somehow didn’t get it right in manufacturing. The high-profile Tundra camshaft problem… Toyota didn’t wait for an owner to experience the failure, they called the vehicle in, at the owners convenience, and swapped the entire engine. I’m ready to do business with a company like that. As near as I can tell, they replaced well over a million steering shafts based on something like 5 incidents, world-wide. They embarked on a recall/field remedy program based on just two incidents, when they thought the affected population was smaller. Yes, Toyota had teething problems with the new 6-speed automatic… similar story, there, they moved quickly to replace affected units.
Compare and contrast with the experience of those “rectified” by the Dexcool settlement; hundreds of thousands had the problem, GM dragged its feet for years, many of the original owners suffered loss and eventually just sold off the cars and the “remedy” is a pittance nearly a decade later. Of those who suffered and sold off, how many are ready to give GM another chance? And how long did GM build the problem into the cars?
Toyota dragged their feet for years on the engine oil sludge problem and that affect three and a half million owners, of whom had thousands of owners who were left with completely disabled vehicles, and in many cases had to pay thousands of dollars to repair engines that were still well within their warranty period.
They also never moved very quickly on the Camry and Avalon cold weather shifting problem, trying instead to rectify the problem by flashing the transmission computer with new programming that in every case, did nothing to solve the problem.
And the curious thing on the Tacoma and Tundra frame rust problem is that the frames were supplied by Dana, who also has supplied frames to Ford and Chrysler (Dodge), who never had a rust problem with their truck frames.
Sludge occurred on some Toyotas, model years 1997-2002. I had a 1997 Camry with one of the 2 affected engines — it didn’t sludge. Had it from new to 111K miles and 7 years; only sold it because I wanted a newer one with side curtain airbags. Two years before I sold it, Toyota extended the engine warranty to 8 years with unlimited mileage as long as you could verify one oil change per year.
From my reading of the situation, only a small percentage sludged; yes, there was an apparent design defect, at least in the V6 (I had the 4-cylinder). However, it seemed to be exacerbated by those who waited too long to change their oil (typically short-trip drivers). 2010 cars are hitting the streets now; it’s time to move on.
210delray, Toyota had reported problems first in the 4 cylinder, then it spread to V-6 and some Lexus V-8 owners as well. With the exception of those who had their selling Toyota or Lexus dealer change the oil, Toyota was reported to have accused the affected owners of owner abuse, even though those owners produced records of timely oil changes. This was very well documented both in Automotive News and in the briefs filed in the class action lawsuit. In fact, the problem, and Toyota’s poor response, was well documented and there is zero evidence of affect owners having exacerbated anything.
Independent outside engineering analysis suggest that Toyota attempted to gain a handle on emission control by reducing the size of the cooling jackets around the cylinders, in an effort to raise combustion temperatures. For emission control, it worked beautifully, but it had the effect of “cooking” the engine oil of anything outside of straight synthetic. In fact, Toyota’s experience, which was shared by at least two other automakers, was used to further tweak the engine oil service standards.
It is interesting to see all the toyota haters go wild over the recent problems. The sludge is often quoted by those that know little about it. Look at CR’s reviews for the camry for the years supposedly affected and you will see that there was no difference from the years before and after. These problems [sludge, camshafts on tundras, etc] are just not significant and are not reflected in the owners’ surveys. BUt these fanboys will continue to bring them up as if these were major problems. I have a new toyota and it has been an excellent vehicle, The toyota I had before that was one of the best I have ever owned. We toyota customers will keep buying their products until they disappoint us or let us down. I don’t see that happeninganytime soon. But these doomsayers will still scream their insults as if they were personally ‘gored by the toyota bull’. What else is new.
+1
I think a lot of the hate comes from those who loathe Toyota’s taking over the #1 spot from GM. Plus Toyotas are “foreign” boring appliances that take you only from point A to point B, yada, yada.
Meanwhile, my 2 Camrys and ’98 Nissan Frontier just keep rolling along with virtually no issues, quite unlike the last domestic car I owned, a 1990 Mercury Sable.
-1 You’re both full of the same nonsense that gets spewed anytime some says something the least bit critical about Toyota. Toyota is like every other major car company doing business in North America – they have problems that come up years after a car line hits the showroom, and occasionally, like the Tundra, they get a slew of flaws that show up right away.
CR isn’t the word of the almighty either. That said, their recent comments about Ford put them right up their, in most cases, with the Asian transplants, but I don’t see Toyota fanboys like you even coming close to acknowledging that.
As an auto industry vendor, I’ve done business with all of the major car makers in North America – Toyota sucks as bad as any of them to deal with. Just like any other big company.
“You’re both full of the same nonsense that gets spewed anytime some says something the least bit critical about Toyota….I don’t see Toyota fanboys like you even coming close to acknowledging that.”
I was an active participant in the Toyota sludge “wars” on Edmunds.com back in 2000-02, and I’ve never been called a “fanboy” before. Ed, what happened to Robert’s no-flaming rules?
“CR isn’t the word of the almighty either. That said, their recent comments about Ford put them right up their, in most cases, with the Asian transplants…”
Either CR is correct in its methodology or it’s not. You can’t cherry pick favorable results for Ford but discount equally favorable results for Toyota. This was a discussion about Toyota anyway, not Ford. Still, I acknowledge Ford’s commendable improvement in reliablity in recent years, especially for products that interest me the most, like the Fusion. If I had disposable income, I’d also be interested in taking a look at the upcoming ’11 Mustang with the new V6.
And as should be inferred by my user name, I’m not against GM per se, but I did disagree on the bailouts.
I’m not flaming anyone. Rday was the one who started the “fanboy” comments:
“BUt these fanboys will continue to bring them up as if these were major problems.”
My point on CR is that those who like Toyota will always bring up CR’s reports, but will pass over, or even gripe about, the same positive comments about one of the Detroit automakers. CR isn’t the ultimate authority – their whole methodolgy is getting voluntary reports from owners, and I see no statistical sampling method – they use their subscribers. Their commetns based on their own test drives are one thing – their “quality” reports are another altogether.
“These problems [sludge, camshafts on tundras, etc] are just not significant and are not reflected in the owners’ surveys. BUt these fanboys will continue to bring them up as if these were major problems. ”
I’ve got 3K in repairs bills on a Toyota Highlander due to sludge problems that says different. My neighbors Lexus clone did the same thing. What a completely awful vehicle in so many ways. I will never spend money on a Toyota again. Excuse me while I go give my Chevy a hug!
And I personally know two Lexus LS owners who had the same problem on their V-8’s, so the problem wasn’t with engines manufactured in the USA only.
Plus the Toyota fanboys need to talk to, in addition to yourself, owners who report on sites like: www.toyoland.com/sludge.html and http://www.yotarepair.com/index.html
Toyota’s quality problems aren’t a myth or exaggeration. They’re as real as the problems the Toyota fans gripe about other automakers having.
Its like what they say in Hollywood: What goes up must come down.