I live near Boston, but on February first, I drove down to Northern Virginia, outside of DC, to my sister’s, to get out of the cold and the snow for the month. Don’t laugh. As I write, the second big snow is in progress, and the driving has been interesting–and fun.
We got a couple of feet out here in Clifton, last week. It started on Friday morning, while my sister, brother-in-law, and their two kids were in Pittsburgh for a funeral, and it was supposed to fall through Saturday. They decided they’d come back Friday evening and try to beat most of the storm. They were maybe 40 miles outside of Pittsburgh, barely the first leg of the 250 miles, when they found themselves at a standstill on Rt. 70-76, going east. They didn’t move for four hours.
The worst part about being stuck like that is not knowing what the trouble is, or when it’s going to abate, and so I made several calls to the Pennsylvania turnpike authority for information. I did manage to find out that the trouble was confined to around mile marker 100, but the turnpike authority was repeatedly vague on how long traffic would be stuck. The hold-up: an accident several miles ahead, and a bunch of jack-knifed trucks in between. (I was unable to find any traffic cams on the scene.)
After about two hours of stasis, a plow and some wreckers came through, but wouldn’t let the cars follow them. Then, after another couple of hours, a plow came threading its way through the jackknifed trucks, with a line of cars following. My family got in the line, and out of the jam. As they drove east, they realized they were very lucky not to be going west. On that side, they saw about 20 miles of gridlock.
During the four hours, the engine on the whole time for heat, the 6 cyl. Volvo XC90 used about an eighth of a tank, says my brother-in-law.
All in all, the normally four hour drive took 13 hours. Once beyond the stuck trucks, they were able to drive 35-40mph all the way, with virtually no cars on the road until they got outside of DC. The visibility was bad, and my brother-in-law, Will Meyer, co-owner with Jeff Davis (not the former president of the confederacy) of sureshotinc.com, a video production company, navigated by following the Jersey barriers in the median, and tire tracks. The highways, plowed sporadically, had up to six inches of snow, but the Volvo XC90 took the snow with aplomb, never losing traction. They arrived home at 8:30 AM.
After a day of car deprivation, I took the Honda (‘99 Accord 5 speed) out on Sunday and cruised the hilly, winding, snow and slush covered byways of Clifton, fairly secure with my Nokia snow tires, but repeatedly touching my brakes to check for ice on the road (I have no ABS). The scenery–this is horse country–was spectacular. A few other cars were out on the byways, and a fair number on the main drags through Fairfax County, which had slush, packed snow, and some clear spots. The only mishap I encountered was an abandoned late model Cadillac in Clifton which appeared to have spun into a snowbank.
“Blizzard” number 2 began last night. Out here in Clifton, it hasn’t amounted to much, but it’s worse in Washington, where its coverage continues to dominate the Washington Post’s front page. Today’s Style section features “The snow has fallen and the flakes are on the road,” with writer Monica Hesse’s account of a “pathetic rear-wheel drive” BMW “spinning his tires uselessly as he tried again and again to climb an unplowed street;” an SUV “blithely driving around with three feet of snow piled on top;” and a Suburban trying to pass a fire truck on “a narrow Dupont Circle street in the middle of blizzard conditions.”
(Note to Monica: rear-wheel drive is NOT pathetic! And we managed quite well in my youth in Boston with snows on the RWD ‘57 Chevy wagon, and in the RWD Peugeot 404 wagon with non-snow radials. Even my less-than-2,000 lb. RWD ‘77 Toyota Corolla with the 1.2 liter and 5-speed, and 50 lbs of trunk ballast managed quite well in DC snows, thank you. Sheesh!)
Which reminds me of one experience during the two decades I lived in DC. During one snow storm in the mid-‘80s, driving home from work I found myself immobilized in a long underpass behind about 60 cars in my old Corolla (which had belonged to David Albright, one of the then-future Iraq weapons inspectors before I purchased it for $450, but that’s another story). Most Washington drivers don’t know how to drive in snow, and so I got out of my car and walked to the front of the line, where just as I suspected, some poor slob was halfway up the ramp out of the underpass, spinning his tires and getting nowhere. I got his attention, and explained to him that in order to climb the ramp he needed to get as much momentum as possible on the flat part, and then ease off the accelerator for the climb. Then I went down the line of cars, explaining the technique. An hour or so later, I was on my way home.
Glad someone is having some fun in the snow! I live in southern New Jersey. We lost power at noon on Friday, and did not get it back till 6pm Tuesday. Longest few days of my life. If we did not have 2 gas fireplaces, we would not have made it. My back and shoulders hurt from shoveling after the snowblower crapped out. We got about 28 inches from the first storm, and have about another 6 inches on the ground with 45 mph winds raging outside right now. If I never see another frigging flake, it will be too soon. I’m getting too old for this crap!!! Hope everyone gets out of this ok, and I know there are many who have or had it much worse than us.
Good write-up; I am temporarily on the north side of Washington in the Balto. metro area and nothing is moving. Baltimore City has a ban on driving period. Tomorrow will probably be mayhem central.
As an aside, I have owned many rear-wheel drive cars (and prefer them) some are better in snow than others. I don’t know about BMW’s but my ’83 Celica GT was great in snow. All you had to do was have decent tires and add a little weight in the hatch-back, cinder blocks etc. Gen II Camaro’s like my ’77 Z28 were horrific in snow; just depends on the car. Also had an ’87 FWD Celica, it was worse than the ’83 by a considerable amount.
No surprise that Monica Hesse knows nothing about cars and I’ll leave it at that.
I’m one of those “totally scared” people when it comes to RWD and snow — since enthusiast vehicles basically ALL have this, I’m eventually going to have to dive back in . . .
You can add: 1988 Mercury Cougar to that “awful in snow” list.
my 76 and 77 Chevelles (RWD) were just fine in the snow and and ice. Along with my 1995 Explorer (2wd w/posi) , and my 2000 Contour(FWD), The worst car I’ve owned for this kind of weather was a 1986 Pontiac 6000-STE (FWD) cast-iron 2.8 sitting on the front wheels, but yet couldn’t go anywhere.
In the rain the 6000 could spin the front tires for as long as you wanted. Dry it’d spin them for a good 5 feet, out of a box stock 2.8!
I had a 1988 Mercury Cougar XR-7 for a couple years, and with snow tires installed, it did just fine. I never got stuck. And this was in rural, usually unplowed, Idaho.
My worst snow car was a 1989 Cadillac Fleetwood. Even with nice snow tires and FWD under a V-8, the thing would get stuck all the time.
@rpol35
My BMW vert is equipped with summer tires and it is sleeping comfortably in the garage. I have a 1st gen. Acura MDX for my every day driver and it is completely buried in the backyard. Will probably not be able to get it out till spring. I read on the BMW forums that BMW’s with RWD are great in the snow if you get good snow tires. The MDX is also great in the snow and I usually do better than the big 4wd trucks till the snow gets to be about 8-10 inches. The lack of ground clearance then gets me. The driver controlled electronic locking axle really helps in sticky situations. Be careful out there!
My old Corolla was quite competent in snow with the bit of ballast, even without decent tires. Probably partly because it had so little power, and maybe partly because it had so little weight. My first gen Saturn was superior with OEM tires, but after I got performance tires, the Saturn suffered in snow.
I hope things clear up reasonably quickly in Baltimore for you.
I now know how lucky I was to move from Northern Virginia to South Carolina three years ago. I am a Northern Virginia native.
I’ll echo the comments from above. It’s not rear-wheel vs Front-wheel or all-wheel drive. It’s the car, driver and how well the vehicle is prepared.
My first car was an 1981 Citation X-11, 4sp manual. The car was great in the snow, especially after practicing launching second by just letting off the clutch. Dad made sure I got plenty of practice in the Fairfax shopping center lots.
My parents used to tool around the back roads of Fairfax County in a 1973 Monte Carlo 454 with big wide white walls. Plenty of sand in the trunk and we never had an issue.
My 2003 Centennial Mustang Convertible was terrible in DC snowstorms. No matter how much weight in the trunk, it got irretrievably stuck every winter. The traction control made it even worse. The engine would cut fuel on wheel spin, so no powering out of a situation.
Great car in the snow? My 1994 Mustang GT Convertible It had wide ass tires low profile tires. Even without snows, it could handle any amount of snowfall or ice. A surprisingly amazing snow car! So was my manual transmission 1996 Accord EX, it handled snow-covered Capital Hill with ease.
It goes without saying the best snow car I’ve had in awhile is my current one. FWD 2006 Audi A3. As sure and as confident as an AWD car. Only issue would be ground clearance.
Best of luck to all the N. Va and DC peeps!
I know exactly how it is, today I hoped I put enough sun block on before going on my bicycle to the beach.
I live out in Leesburg, and we got, with today’s snowfall, almost 4 feet, but I’m not complaining. I too enjoy driving in the snow. So much fun to so easily spin the tail out, and the higher degree of difficulty makes me feel like I completed something hard in a usually mundane task. I certainly agree that RWD is not difficult to drive with, except for starting from a standstill. Thank god my Mustang has traction control or else I would have been stuck many a time. My brother’s Accord, on the other hand, handled excellently in the snow. Never got stuck and had little to no trouble starting, even on hills.
As long as you’re not dumb and understand not to goose the throttle, most cars that are front wheel drive are decent in the snow. RWD is noticeably worse but doable (snow tires will help.)
AWD / snow tires are necessary if you live in a hilly area- there’s just no substitute. Ground clearance can play a big role as well if you slide to unexpected places (this is why I see more Subarus stuck on the side of the road than anything else.)
By far the worst AWD system I’ve seen is BMW’s xDrive. Just completely useless and outperformed by Ford’s.
BMWs are great in the snow with winter tires. In fact, with rear wheel drive you have an advantage on steep hills. The weight shifts to the rear wheels giving a bit of extra traction. I have Blizzak WS-60’s and have never had a problem with RWD, but my FWD cars have issues on steeper hills and driveways after or during storms, even with the winter tires.
I’m just northwest of Richmond, am an ex-western Pennsylvanian, and the first thing I learned when moving to VA was that the locals can’t drive in anything other than sunny with dry roads. I swear they have no concept whatsoever of changing their driving style to match changing conditions.
And yes, I learned how to drive long ago on a rear wheel drive car. No big deal. Honest.
Other than repeated shovelings of a 0.1 mile driveway with a steep hill at the beginning, I’ve been enjoying it. And I’m loving the DC snow. Hope it stays. Anything that shuts the government down for a few days can’t be all bad.
Syke, +1 on Richmond drivers.
I’m southwest of town (Chesterfield county). I went out in the Feb 1 storm and drove about a mile away from home to take the kids sledding on a good long hill. About 12″ of snow on unplowed neighborhood and county 2-lane roads but absolutely no problems with traction in my 2wd Dodge Ram (snow up to the bed rails behind the axle). There was a FWD Oldsmobile in my neighborhood stuck in a flat straight section of road that couldn’t rock out of the snow. That snow was very cold, dry, and powder-like and provided excellent traction. Any vehicle with ground clearance could handle it fine. Those without became stuck. Drivetrain layout or tire choice had little to do with driving in that storm.
I’m a South Jersey (Atlantic City) native transplant in DC (well, Arlington, anyway). It sucks in Jersey and it sucks in DC. There are cars in my subdivision that haven’t been cleaned off by their owners since the first snowstorm last Friday. There is about 40-inches of compacted snow-ice on them. I saw patches of blacktop on Eads St (outside my apartment building) for the time this week today, just for it started snowing again.
Meanwhile, I hear from friends and family back in Jersey that Cape May County is basically an Arctic wilderness of death. Major transmission cables just snapped over the Garden State Parkway near Tuckerton, closing the highway. And (literally) half of Atlantic City’s beach has washed away in waht is, effectively, a snowicane.
I’m all for challenging driving conditions, but you’re a fool for driving in shiatty weather, potentially blocking the road with your accident strewn corpse and blocking the way for military/police/plow crews. If you don’t NEED to be out on the roads, DON’T be.
Small world – I used to live across the street from Clifton (in Centreville). That 13-hr ordeal on the Penna Turnpike sounds horrible!
I agree about VA (& DC & MD) drivers not being able to deal with weather conditions more adverse than broad daylight and zero precipitation. Generally, a minor rainstorm during rush-hour doubles the commute time in the NOVA area. Oddly, this did not discourage the locals from venturing out in the 32 inches of snow here (Clarksburg MD) yesterday to stock up on milk and toilet paper (most around here evidently utilize just-in-time delivery/shopping for basic necessities). While digging out, I saw countless cars getting stuck trying to pull out of their driveways, and redlining their engines while a passenger stands inches away from the spinning wheels trying to push the car free. After getting unstuck, they’d proceed onto the unplowed road only to get stuck again, and repeat the process until they got out of the neighborhood. Comical.
unplowed roads, redlining their engines and spinning tires hel
plessly
David your brother inlaw sounds like he knows how to drive. I’m sure your relieved that your family made it home. I’m feeling kind of bad for you folks 300 miles south of me. Living here on the north shore of lake Ontario I can see the grass on my front lawn. I was watching CNN news clips from D.C this morning and you can pick out the folks that have experience with winter driving.
FWD is a lot more forgiving,though RWD with good tires and the right driver will get you most places. That being said, my RWD Firebird is sleeping in the garage. The FWD Impala has’nt moved since Xmas cause of all the salt on the road. I’m using my 4wd gas pig of a Jimmy to navigate through 2 inches of snow. I feel they may suspend my Canadian citizenship soon.
I can still hear my Dad, may he rest in peace. “Michael” he would say “treat the gas pedal as you would a woman, gently and carefully”
I drove through Arlington, VA this morning in our Honda Odyssey. Take it easy, accelerate carefully, and keep moving. This is excellent advice:
explained to him that in order to climb the ramp he needed to get as much momentum as possible on the flat part, and then ease off the accelerator for the climb.
I was behind a guy in a Toyota Highlander going up a slight hill. I had anticipated it and gotten up speed and was gaining on him fast enough to worry about it. Then he lost traction completely and started spinning all four of his wheels. Giving up, he put it in reverse and started backing toward me at a downhill-on-ice speed. I had no choice but to lean on my horn, flash my lights, and pass him over the double yellow line (couldn’t see it anyway).
I grew up in sunny southern California and never saw falling snow until I went to school in northern Indiana. At the first snow accumulation I went to a Piggly Wiggly parking lot at about 2:00 AM and practiced sliding, stopping, starting, turning, etc. That’s my advice to anyone who has to learn to drive in snow.
MIkey, indeed I was terribly relieved when the family got home, but yeah, my b-in-law is a terrific driver. And your father sounds wonderfully wise.
findude, when I was 14 we went to a ski lodge. Somewhere around there my father found an empty parking lot with a nice snow-ice cover, and I got my first driving lesson on slippery surfaces, in the Peugeot. But I think I’d already absorbed the principals of driving on snow. Your encounter with the Highlander sounds a bit hairy.
Second many of the comments above re: DC area drivers. I only ventured out once this week, just after the end of the first storm but before the second storm, to get some groceries. I was tailgated most of the way there and back, on hilly roads covered with slush and ice. Luckily I was on a set of 4 new all seasons, so I made it very slowly but safely home.
Also, I know no one on TTAC needs to be told to check to make sure you’re not driving on bald tires, but please please remind all your friends and family to check their tires regularly, especially before driving in the snow. I had to drive my cousin’s car last week (long story), and since she told me she just had the safety inspection done I assumed it was fine to drive. Either she lied or the inspector completely ignored the tires. On the way home I nearly crashed on a major highway. The very next day I took it to the tire shop and the guy told me all 4 tires were original from the factory–10 years old, likely had been completely bald for the last 5 years. I changed the tires to a much better set of all seasons and feel a lot safer. I now wonder every time I see a car stuck in a snow bank if the driver even knows what the words “tread depth” mean.
so far, i have found that getting around in my old (’86) VW syncro wesfalia has been no problem. it’s high off the ground, goes anywhere, has enough heat to stay warm with, and blows the rear-wheel-drive cars off the hills. the only thing i’ve noticed is that driving around in third gear (it has a long fourth gear: not very useful when you’re only going about 35 miles an hour) has cut the mileage from 20 MPG to about 16. still that’s not a bad price to pay for being able to go anywhere without worrying.
i do wish people would be a bit more careful. there are a lot of people walking on the streets, since the sidewalks aren’t functional. while some drivers are kind, and go carefully round the pedestrians, others sail blithly by.
and it’s BEAUTIFUL out there!
Good report.
I drove to work in Boston this morning, up southeast expressway, 10am, at 65 mph the entire nine miles. Empty. Clean and a bit wet. Overhead signs warning “winter storm emergency”. 2002 A4 Quattro, snows on steelies. Cruise control.
Drove home southbound at 8pm through 1.5 inch of slush, at 65 mph the entire nine miles. almost empty. Traffic moving at 45, left lane empty. Cruise control. Mild steering feedback left and right over slush lines changing lanes.
I expect grocery store shelves are empty to 100 miles around.
Tomorrow will be following lineups of snowplows pushing 3 inches of slush, moving slow. Probably at least one jackknife tractor trailer snarling things, many fender benders. Out on the open road.
Tried to do some fun skids in empty work lot before going home. Couldn’t break loose without serious steering wheel hoonage or brake stompage. Wet slush over unfrozen blacktop.
Naples News this morning said RSW is closed. Thats Fort Myers Florida. It rained most of day in Boston.
The end of the world is nigh.
Around here, BMW drivers without snow tires (some with summer tires!) are the cause of many traffic tie ups when it snows. It only takes one idiot to get stuck going up a bridge deck and slide sideways thus blocking all traffic.
It doesn’t snow much here, but we have lots of bridges and many idiots driving BMWs.
Same here. My neighbor can’t get up the driveway with his E550…but never gets around to buying winter tires for it. Those super wide performance “all season” tires are terrible in snow….especially with a couple seasons of wear on them.
We have winter tires on all our cars…including a RWD Hyundai Genesis and have no issues driving in the muck.
Reminds me, a few years ago I used to work at the detailing shop. We were getting cars from BMW dealership. Once in April we’ve got E39 540iA with tires already changed to Summer and winter tires sitting in the trunk and back seat. Car come in on Friday and had to be driven back to BMW on Saturday. And overnight there was snow and some freezing rain. Boss tried to take the car out and got stuck in the snow. All I had was a learners permit. I asked my boss if I could give it a go. He gave me that dirty look like I was asking to bang his wife and told me to knock myself out. Since car had steptronick, I turned off traction control and moved selector in second gear. As soon as car started moving, I up-shifted to third and drove the car from the parking lot to a plowed road. So, all it takes is a little common sense to be able to drive in adverse weather conditions.
Just around the corner here from Clifton, in Fairfax Station…..living here more than 20 years after earlier days in Minnesota, Ohio and the Boston area. So yeah, most folks here don’t know how to drive in snow–though I suspect it’s because so many residents are transplants from literally all over the world and have rather differing approaches to snow driving (as in none).
Our neighborhoods are among the last to see a plow, so I just mainly stay home and don’t venture out if I can help it (a supermarket is within walking distance anyways if we’re desperate). Our Saabs have plenty of capability in the snow, except that like any other car that’s not jacked up to make it fashionable in the SUV/CUV mold they don’t like deep ruts that scrape their undersides.
Agree that Nokian tires are da bomb for this kind of weather, and even better for icy conditions we also get rather frequently. My 9-3 and my wife’s 9-5 when they had Nokian WRs could easily peck their way around other cars that were spinning their tires on icy inclines. Nowadays we have General Altimax HPs on our cars, which are OK in the winter but not Nokians.
My parents used to live in Buffalo when I was in grad school, and when visiting them I would use my dad’s RWD Chevette (4 speed stick) to get around even in their famous snowstorms. Didn’t seem to inhibit getting around, so long as the snow tires were in good shape.
Sorry about that David. The good news is that Congress’ depredations have been slowed.
I imagine that, up and down the east coast, Subaru salesmen will be whistling while they work for the next five years.
…and +1 on Nokian WR tires, which are (so far as I know) still the only all-season radial which also rates as a winter tire. I put four new ones on last winter (replacing four previous-version WRs), and like them just fine.
Tparkit, Goodyear also has an all-season tire that has the snowflake imprinted. I believe it’s the Assurance TripleTred if I recall correctly. My neighbor has them equipped on both his vehicles and swears by them. Only complaint is they are noisier than non-snowflake imprinted all-seaons, but that’s to be expected of any winter tire.
My 4th gen Camaro is a bloody pain in the ass in the snow… the sheer concentration it takes to drive that car on ice is incredible. Putting weight in the back makes the front end all squirrelly. I end up shuffling sand bags around depending on conditions and how much gas is in the tank, balancing being able to stop and steer with not getting stuck.
I am painfully aware at any time just how much traction I have. Haven’t gotten stuck in it yet, ground clearance is an issue in deep snow but it still seems to plow through it, I just don’t stop.
My 240sx was a billion times better, and I think the Super HICAS helped stop it from swapping ends on icy highways. The Camaro just has way too much power, or something.
The biggest problem with RWD is that you have to push the front tires though the snow, especially up hill this can mean getting instantly stuck. Ice isn’t a big issue though and they go backwards in a straight line through deep snow like a hot damn.
FWD is great until you take a tight corner, then the rear tires fall out of the groove cut by the front and you get stuck (usually far away from home or somewhere embarassing). If it was a rwd car you would have gotten stuck in the driveway instead and not made it to that round-a-bout 10 blocks away. Breaking the front tires loose on a corner is always fun and is almost impossible to recover from at speed. I find front drives spooky on ice, I don’t get the same feedback that I do from a RWD car (I can’t goose the throttle with relative safety to see just how bad the road is for example).
AWD doesn’t have a problem getting stuck in snow as both tires can claw through it, but they do break loose on ice in a spectacular and unpredictable fashion (or on pavement for that matter).
Part time 4wd is predictable in the way that you simply seem to fall off the road. Touching the brakes in an older pickup truck could mean doing a 180, rear wheel ABS was the best thing to ever happen to pickups. I run them in 2wd at high speeds because losing the back tires is bad enough and all the pathfinders and 4runners I see in the ditch put the fear in me.
In a RWD car even when you lose control of the ass end you usually have the front tires still to try and save yourself with. This might just mean you have an extra couple of seconds of counter steering/fishtailing terror and crapping your pants before flying into the ditch, but it’s something.
Now, driving an MR2 in the snow? That’s insane.
Sounds like you guys are having fun. We’ve got 66 degrees today here in Israel – it actually snowed last week in some places. Still, no need for winter tires :)
I learned to drive on snow with rear wheel drive and yes, rwd cars can do fine with good tires, but all things being equal front wheel drive is much, much better in snow. The main thing I have learned, fwd or rwd, is that dedicated snow tires ON ALL FOUR CORNERS simply remove the drama and stress from snow driving. As a bonus,they are practically free. The only real cost is the extra steel rims, since they stretch the wear on the summer tires by a third–my snows go on the week before Thanksgiving and come off about Easter.
I am a big believer in Bridgestone Blizzaks, and have had three sets now. Cost is very similar to decent all-season tires, though they don’t last quite as long. I’ve been getting four to five seasons out of the Blizzaks. It’s rare to lose traction unless I’m pushing snow with the bumper, and they do wonders for braking in the slimy crud which, IMO, is their chief advantage. If you live where it snows for more than a third of the year, the cost/benefit ratio is pretty attractive.
I’ll take my BMW with Blizzaks up against the nasty all-american combo of front drive and all season tires any day. I love how when snow hits German cars are the real problem, not the weather.
Growing up (in Indiana) my parents had an ’88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with a 5-speed. Worst snow car ever! The turbo lag led to a death spiral of spinning tires and spooling boost. The only options were to ride it out and hope for the best or back off even a little and soon find yourself slowed to a crawl or stopped. I learned to drive in that car and the lessons I learned have helped me in many situations driving much more manageable cars.
My current ’84 Civic 1500 is amazing in the snow. Absolutely unstoppable and very good at the precision hadnbrake turn.
I would strongly urge anyone driving in snow, slush, or even rain to NOT use their cruise control. There are many reasons not too, but my biggest reason is that reaction time is slowed tremendously.
Besides the Outback, my 1990 Integra was an amazing little car in snow. It was pretty lightweight, had a decent wheelbase length with 15″ tires, enough power, and a clutch that was easy to feather. It was great traveling through the back country and highways between Texas and Utah. It was my high school and college car.
Meh, we Canadian prairie folks deal with lots of snow every winter. Of course, not even some of my fellow flat-landers can drive in snow, but most of us learn how to, because we have to. It’s always entertaining to see footage of Americans struggling to cope with, what to us is a normal, snowfall.
I’m fortunate enough to have learned to drive when the only FWD cars were Toronados and Eldorados. The best lessons in winter driving are the lessons learned on the worst possible cars! I learned to drive in large domestic RWD cars that often featured a heavy front-biased weight differential, and often times no snow tires. Especially noteworthy were cars that offered “performance” drivetrains and no positrac. If you can drive a full size sedan with 13″ or 14″ narrow bias-ply tires and a 455 4bbl, you can drive anything in the snow.
My wife and I used to travel from Winnipeg to Calgary or Vancouver for Christmas, and there were occasions when the 6 hour stretch from Regina to Winnipeg would become a 12 hour journey, and one memorable winter it took us over 30 hours to make the trek to Winnipeg from Calgary, a trip that normally I can do in 12 to 14 hours. We had a Dodge Aspen with the slant six at the time, with no snow tires, and small children. I can recall driving the Trans-Canada Highway at 15-20 mph, using the edge of the shoulder to navigate, because you couldn’t see more than 3 or 4 feet ahead.
Now, with a Ford Focus with traction control and FWD, and a set of Blizzaks on all four corners on dedicated winter rims, I have absolutely no trepidations in driving in hazardous conditions.
I laugh to watch people driving their AWD cars with super fat all-season tires thinking that they’re invincible in snow, and sure enough, who do I see hung up on snow banks or buried in ditches? Those same idiots who continue to drive like they’re in a Formula One race, even though conditions warrant careful, slower driving habits. Or even better, the nutjobs in their 4WD SUVs who don’t realize that 4WD doesn’t guarantee any better stopping distances. I see a lot of those types involved in rear end crashes.
Are you Albertan or Saskatchewanian? Sometimes a big difference :)
Manitoban, an even bigger difference!
Ah, touché
(Note to Monica: rear-wheel drive is NOT pathetic! )
Note to David Holzman #1: real-wheel drive ARE pathetic when compared to their AWD counter parts.
Wearing the same footwear, a 325xi will blow snow all over 325i while speeding past it.
fairly secure with my Nokia snow tires
Note to David Holzman #2: Nokia does not make tires, they make cell phones. You car has Nokian Tyres (http://www.nokiantyres.com/)
There was time when TTAC contributers where a little more knowledgebale than those in MSM, oh well.
Not every RWD car has an AWD counterpart, especially not prior to the past decade. For a time the only RWD car(s) that had AWD counterparts, besides trucks, were Mercedes-Benz E-class 4MATIC systems (300E, E320, E430, etc…).
We all know he meant* Nokian, not Nokia. It’s a spelling error and there is no editor here to catch those little things. Get over yourself.
*= I just did this myself, and had to edit my post. I left the “t” off “meant”. Completely overlooked it until after I posted. We’re only human…but still, get over yourself.
Most people don’t realize:
Traction Control has to go OFF in deep snow (In a subi, you don’t need to – others may be the same)
Sporty cars sometimes come with SUMMER tires.
Ignore these two on a snowy hill and it doesn’t matter if you’re driving an EVO, you won’t make it up the hill. (Okay, the EVO will eventually get traction and catapult you into a tree, but I digress)
Here in Maine we’ve had something like 33″ so far this season. Two years ago we got 100″ in total, so I doubt we’ll hit that this season. Our last big storm ended up being 2″ of rain a few weeks ago because it was just too warm. Grass is visible in a lot of areas, which is highly unusual. The Washington area is basically getting all of our snow. The storm from yesterday was projected to drop a dusting to 2″, but we got 0″ in Portland. They’re saying something might happen on Tuesday, but the forecasters aren’t hyping it in our area so I’m thinking we’re going to be missed again.
As for driving in the snow, I try to avoid it as much as I can, but I do have snow tires on my Jetta and it doesn’t do badly. I had all-seasons still on it when the first snow happened in December and I couldn’t even get up an un-plowed incline out of our subdivision. Snow tires make a huge difference.
We got our first big snowfall here in NY yesterday and this morning my condo complex was still a mess. I debated on taking the Acura or the Miata to work, but decided to take the Miata since I did not want to leave it parked where it was, lest someone hit it with a shovel or something.
I figured it’s about a 50/50 weight distribution car with modest power and newish all season tires, and I’d be fine. There were a couple of snowy patches on the side roads, but by feathering the throttle and brakes and not having to come to a complete stop unless I had to, my commute was drama free.
My usual advice to hapless wheel-spinners is, “Imagine an egg under your foot on the gas pedal.” I have used that phrase several times, and have been rewarded with a look of utter amazement on the departing driver’s face each time. RWD, FWD, AWD, same-o same-o.
Ernie, found out about the stability control just the other day. Have some drifting across our long rural driveway so the snow is about 1 1/2 ft. deep. Never had a vehicle with stability control until we got the ’10 Subie Forester last year. As I started to bog down the SC light comes on and I start bogging down more to the point I have it floored and practically nothing is happening. I let off the gas, punch off the SC and on we go. Had a ball last night running up and down the driveway with the old ’94 Ranger 4WD to mash down the snow, I swear that thing can go anywhere. I’ve never had it stuck in mud or snow, in fact I’ve used it to pull our little tractor (’41 Ford 9N) out of the snow in other years.
We have 70 inches of snow here in Philadelphia so far this year, 30 of that in the last week. I am going to side with the AWD bunch. Since we usually do not get this much snow in Philly, I go with the AWD, instead of having to put on snow tires, which might never get used in a season. The AWD makes the car more stable in wet weather, too.
I managed with a rear wheel driver in the sixties (you can guess which one from my icon), but I certainly did get it stuck occasionally. In the seventies, I had some aggressive snows on my FWD Scirocco, and never got stuck, even though I lived in Ithaca. Nor did I have any problems with my FWD Chrysler Laser in the eighties. My RWD Turbo Supra in the nineties was a real pain – it couldn’t even get from the side of the road to the center, due to the camber in the road! My current AWD TT and my wife’s AWD WRX have never gotten stuck, even without snows. She says that she loves driving around the stuck BMW’s in our neighborhood. I will agree though that the RWD cars have been more fun to drive, as they take more skill. The Audi is just too competent – you can’t screw up in it.
I learned to drive in the snow in 1960s American RWD sedans, which my father always equipped with snow tires. With some extra weight in the trunk and a manual tranny (so you could use a 2d gear start), they were pretty effective. FWD cars understeer, which most people find less alarming than oversteer . . . which is why they have the reputation that they have.
Driving back from dropping my wife at C-SPAN Wed. night, I watched a guy in an unidentified SUV do a 360 at low speed. I’m still not sure what he did to accomplish that; I had driven over the same spot and it was just snow-covered. Fortunately, he plowed into a snowbank and didn’t hurt anything or anyone.
I’m a big believer in true snow tires. We had a Toyota Previa AWD that I put 4 Blizzaks on (when we had a vacation home in West Virginia) and that car passed any number of SUVs with all-seasons that were totally stuck. Talk about a double-take from their drivers!
A decent awd or 4wd SUV (like my Honda Pilot) is pretty much unstoppable with snow tires . . . until the snow gets over 2 feet deep, at which point, the car high centers (floats on the snow). There is no cure for that except higher ground clearance.
Other AWD vehicles should be as successful, but at lesser snow depths because of their lower ground clearance.
One small annoyance with modern electronics-laden cars is that vehicle stability control/traction control systems — while useful on smooth, slick surfaces — can be an impediment in deep, soft snow, where you want the car to dig a little bit. The “VSC” in my Pilot seems to tolerate a second of vigorous wheelspin when the vehicle is stopped, but then abruptly chops the throttle. I don’t think this feature is adequately explained in the owner’s manual.