CAFE got you down? Worried that it’s only a matter of time before the feds come for your V8? You can relax a little, as General Motors is announcing that it will spend nearly a billion dollars rolling out its next generation of small-block V8 engines. According to Automotive News [sub], GM is dropping $893m to upgrade or renovate engine plants in Tonawanda, NY; Bay City, MI; Bedford, IN; Defiance, OH; and St. Catharines, Ontario. These new plants will build GM’s next generation of all-aluminum V8 engines, which will use direct-injection and a new combustion system for improved efficiency.GM won’t say what vehicles these new V8s will be offered in, but expect this to signal the end of the road for the Northstar family of engines as well as replacing the outgoing small-blocks. And what of GM’s commitment to reducing emissions? According to The General’s presser, all of its future small-block V8s will be E85-capable, meaning they qualify for the CAFE ramp-up’s Flex Fuel Vehicle credit loophole. As such,
their fuel economy is determined using a special calculation procedure that results in those vehicles being assigned a higher fuel economy level than would otherwise occur.
Which helps explain why Sen Chuck Schumer (D-NY) doesn’t mind publicly lobbying for V8 production at Tonawanda despite his strong belief in Global Warming: the regulatory fix was already in.
w00t w00t!
Is it going to (hopefully) be an overhead valve, cam in block small block?
The corn lobby has america by the balls, HOWEVER…GM makes some damn good V8’s…can’t WAIT to get ’em!
I have to give some props to my hometown: good for you, St. Catharines!
For years, the best of GM’s powertrains (excepting the Corvette’s bigger V8) were made there, and for years upon years, St. Kitts has been treated as kind of red-headed stepchild within GM’s Operations. The proverbial sword of Damocles has been hanging over it’s head for a very, very long time, and the slow death of the plant has been a burden on the community.
As for what’s being built: I wouldn’t be surprised to see that it’s an evolution of the LS4 V8 that’s made in St. Kitts now. It’s a very good engine; about as powerful as the Northstar, but much more reliable, cheaper to make and more compact.
Love much of which you write, except that you don’t like Fords.
But in this case you missed the point.
It might well be a great engine…its just the government’s giving it a fake MPG rating.
That again the government is pushing for fuel from corn and forcing a more damaging and expensive tech upon us is what’s wrong here.
Its all so horrible.
This sounds a lot like making a big bet on new and improved SUVs back in the early part of this decade. And that worked out so well for GM, didn’t it? V8s aren’t going to be very popular once the global economy perks back up and oil speculators push gas prices back up over $4/gal.
Exactly. With China and India adding tens of millions of new cars each year, and oil production flat, there’s only one way for gas prices to go. I hate to say pull the plug on GM, but the stupidity seems to be chronic.
The term loophole is often misused and is usually invoked when someone simply disagrees with an explicit part of a law.
A real loophole would be due to some arcane semantic oddity or oversight. Like tomatoes are classified as fruits by botanists and thus exempt from a vegetable regulatory law.
But most often, activists will declare parts of a law to be loopholes, when in actuality, those elements were debated and discussed, and the activists did not get what they wanted.
The Wash Post editorial page seems to discover all sorts of “loopholes that need closing” after a session ends and their side didn’t have the votes.
“The next generation small block engine family will have unprecedented fuel efficiency through direct injection and an all-new advanced combustion system design.”
I wonder what the new combustion system design is. I would love to see what kind of fuel economy numbers come from these. It would also be good to see if these engines will make it into some of the FWD crossovers that are available… and maybe into Alpha if it is designed for V8s.
“I wonder what the new combustion system design is.”
Hemi.
Well, that wouldn’t be the first time GM has copied Chrysler.
Cool, glad to hear it. My grandfather would be smiling if he was still alive (GM Defiance Plant UAW). Amazing to hear about their investment in a plant where bits and pieces of it date back to WWII, but then again the plant is connected to major rail hubs, close to the port of Toledo, and not far from I-75.
No more Northstar? I’ve heard lots of bad things about those engines, wonder which years were the “least” trouble prone?
And GM’s eco-friendly flagship, the Chevy Volt, won’t be E85 capable when it’s first introduced?
It doesn’t need to be… per the same “loophole” piece linked in the post:
EPA is currently considering proposing additional credit opportunities to encourage the commercialization of advanced GHG/fuel economy control technology such as electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. These “super credits” could take the form of a multiplier that would be applied to the number of vehicles sold such that they would count as more than one vehicle in the manufacturer’s fleet average. EPA is also considering allowing such credits to be generated for years prior to MY 2012.
Is this also a curbside classic clue?
So all the manufacturers have to do is beef up the fuel delivery systems to allow for safe combustion of a big chunk of the worlds food supply? ‘Super’ credits for EVs, and I’m allowed to buy that V8? God bless the EPA. I can’t wait to see what they think of next!
All the while devout monks like James Hansen, Gavin Schmidt, Michael Mann, and Phil Jones consult their Magic 8 Balls and Ouija boards. The entrails are read and handed up to The Church Of The Sky Is Falling. The seminarians scurry about for indulgences (research grants). The Scriptures are lovingly bound, and widely distributed through approved channels. The High Priests pronounce all is as it should be, only after making the necessary investments. It’s somewhat unfortunate that all of this is coming out of our wallets, but salvation doesn’t come cheaply.
So, GM’s spending a ton of cash to develop 90’s era engines (that is, V8s) Why in hell isn’t GM spending to money to, say, develop their European diesels to run on North American diesel fuel? Is it just me, or does that seem a much more cost-effective (and efficient) use of the money? Not to mention, having a 2 liter diesel in a Cobalt, well, okay, it’d still be a Cobalt, but it’d be better…
Yeah..making a EU diesel that works in NA…that’s cost effective. What planet are you on? Diesel is not profitable here in NA.
And I don’t know what you are talking about 90’s era technology…GM V8’s are as efficient as a Ford V6…a V6 with all sorts of “new” technology.
If you are going to build a V6 that makes V8 power while getting V8 fuel economy…doesn’t it make more sense to just make a V8?
Whether the greenies like it or not, there will be a place for V-8 engines in trucks (at the very least) for the forseeable future. It would be foolish of GM not to update these engines to improve efficiency and keep them competitive.
“If you are going to build a V6 that makes V8 power while getting V8 fuel economy…doesn’t it make more sense to just make a V8?”
Well, no. At the point, it makes far more sense to proceed with the V6. Two fewer spark plugs, two fewer pistons, two fewer conrods, 4(+) fewer valves, fewer bearings, fewer cams to grind, fewer cylinders to line and bore, fewer ignition wires (or coils for the more modern ignition systems), etc, etc, etc, etc.
All things being equal, the fewer parts you require, the better your design is.
Steve65:
The point of making the 6 against the 8 is a moot point.
The point that ISNT moot is what technology is GOING into the 6’s.
The current tech today must involve DUAL Variable Valve Timing INTAKE and EXHAUST. Its also must be standard to use Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Exhaust gas is routed back into the combustion chamber because the exhausted air is much hotter than the intake air (try touching a muffler sometime). By sending warmer gas into the combustion chamber, the air/fuel mix does not have to do as much work to heat up, and your engine runs more efficiently.
Hyundai is using Direct injection, WITH DUAL VVTI along with the EGR.
The point that I keep trying to make is…
Its almost pointless to make the stupid motor because E85 contains less energy than gasoline, on top of.. the availability of the fuel itself. Then ya have issues with fuel / corn prices..and its relation on the price of CORN, and everything that is made with corn.
Judging by what GM has shown off and hinted at I’m guessing the next next gen small blocks will have:
1. About a 15% drop in displacement from the present engines.
2. Around 10% more horsepower than the motors they replace.
3. Similar peak torque numbers, but it will happen at a higher RPM.
4. Improved fuel economy, but I can’t really even guess to what degree.
I’ve been harping on GM to add DI to their small-blocks since DI became a viable technology. I would also hope that, instead of using the DI and the “new combustion system” to shoot up the power/torque numbers, they use and tune the technology to maintain their current power/torque numbers, and shoot up the fuel economy drastically.
Imagine a 425-430 hp Corvette that gets 20/30 from the EPA, sans any E85 BS. Heaven…
Thank God GM has the stones to stick with the tried and true V8. None of this silly V6 with V8 power and mileage nonsense that Ford is trying to peddle.
GM is still going to go the “Ecoboost” route.
The new small blocks are going to end up in the Corvette, Camaro, Cadillac V-series, trucks/SUVs, but nothing else. Maybe in the Caprice if GM makes a civilian version.
Truly, I’d be shocked to ever see a V8 in a non-V CTS/ATS, any XTS, the Regal, or any of the Lambdas. Those vehicles (and everything else GM makes) are going to be a mix of turbos, V6s, and I4s.
You and many above have missed the point.
That’s frustrating.
They can do this ONLY because of the deception and scam being played by the government.
They and their corn lobbies.
And this is even laughable when it comes to the environment!
The water and energy wasted for corn fuel is..stupid.
Ford has done what many of us have asked for, more power and smaller engines.
Europe has enjoyed this for a long time.
I am thankful for the twin turbo and direct injection of the Ford engines.
To cheat and act like its honorable is shameful.
What’s shameful is Ford V6s getting V8 mileage.
And trust me…a Ford engine…especially a high-strung V6 will not be nearly as reliable/durable as a “just as efficient” GM V8. And a GM V8 is easier/cheaper to work on (mainly because nothing goes wrong).
Even Hyundai can make an efficient V8 that makes almost 400HP…(Genesis sedan…385HP and 17/25MPG same as the Lincoln rebadge of the Taurus SHOW)
And the Tahoe 4X4 MPG vs the Flex with Twin Force and AWD is hardly a difference for all of the mindless cheer-leading Ford has done regarding their 3.5 Twin Force boat anchor.
Ford said the 3.5 Twin Force would get 20% better fuel economy than a V8…that was a lie.
Ford also said that Twin Force would cost the consumer an additional $700.00 per car and would be paid off within 3 or so years. That was a lie too.
“Eco”boost is the biggest lie being sold today. It’s not an efficient technology (both in cost vs results and results vs the alternative (V8)), it does not deliver 20% better fuel economy as Ford stated, it does not deliver V8 power with V6 fuel economy, and it’s not cheap.
A reliable, durable, efficient V8 is a MUCH better choice…both in the short term and long term…and Ford agrees…because if they didn’t, they would have not developed the 5.0 and 6.2.
Imagine how much better the SHOW, or Flex would be if it had a V8. Then there is only one glaring deficiency to deal with…FWD/AWD.
I don’t really have enough context here. What is the actual e85 FFV boost? If the V8 delivers a 25MPG, what is the FFV adjusted number?
what bothers me are the words fuel economy and special calculations. last i checked in the real world, using E85 actually resulted in worse fuel economy than regular gas. not to mention the still rudimentary process of making E85 gives us a negative net benefit.
@Z71 chevy guy: thank god GM has customers like you.
I know,..down to earth and realistic.
But please…show me where I’m wrong.
no matter how good a product or how hyped up, success all boils down to consumers voting with their dollars. btw, what was the last new vehicle you purchased and why?
Maybe the investment is because of the hundreds of thousands of trucks that are sold every year. Regardless of environmentalist wishes, trucks will continue to be a major part of the US automarket for the foreseeable future. As such, wouldn’t it make sense to continue to invest in making those vehicles as efficient as possible, while maintaining performance? And the single most part of the vehicle that impacts fuel economy remains powertrain.
As far as E85 goes, yes, the E85 vehicles are rated differently under CAFE, but the point you miss is that irregardless of how many E85 capable vehicles a manfuacturer sells, they may only claim up to a .9 mpg improvement in overall CAFE for model years 2011 – 2014.
My next question…
Who is going to tell the yahoos who get this motor and or E85 capable unit that.. its easier to hail a cab in the snow or the rain in NYC.. than find an E85 pump for most of the East Coast.