TTAC Commentator Shane Rimmer writes:
I have a 2002 Ford ZX2 5-speed with about 80,000 miles on the odometer. For peace of mind, I plan to change the transmission fluid soon. The book calls for Mercon automatic transmission fluid, but I have read that synchromesh is the better choice. I’d like to get the thoughts of the best and brightest on which I should use or if I should just leave it as is since there are no problems.
Sajeev Answers:
If this car is a keeper, changing the fluid is an excellent idea. And why wouldn’t it be? One of the final tributes to Ford’s design leadership (before the J Mays era of VW-wannabes) certainly deserves a revitalized gearbox. But what fluid: the factory stuff, synchromesh, or a full synthetic?
Keep in mind the factory ATF is a semi-synthetic (Mercon V) which is a good start. But most who switch to synchromesh notice smoother gear changes. I certainly did. Synchromesh isn’t the be all/end all to upgrades, but a quick search of forums show that many Sport Compact owners find the conversion worth it. Not to mention this stuff is plentiful and cheap. Dirt cheap.
Upgrading to a full synthetic is another valid option. Since the ZX2 is an Escort, Ford has a synthetic fluid that’s a safe bet for durability and performance, and (again) the forums agree. The stuff is nicknamed “Ford Honey” because of the color, but it’s simply synthetic transmission fluid sold in a Motorcraft bottle.
Your call. And your preference. I’d recommend a relatively wallet-friendly switch to synchromesh and try it out for a while. But, again, there’s no wrong answer. Off to you, Best and Brightest.
(Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com)
ATF like Mercon and Dexron are friction modified for organic clutch materials. Syncros are metal and work better without FM additives. Even old Type F ATF shifts better in a manual trans. Syncromesh fluids are now available everywhere so I would use it. For synthetic, I like Redline MTL if you are in a warm climate. The Getrag 5-speed in the BMW called for “ATF OIL”, but MTL worked the best except on very cold mornings.
I think Augusta, GA qualifies as a warm environment. :) I guess that is an added wrinkle, too. I rarely have to worry about temperatures below freezing, but temperatures can be quite warm for 2/3 of the year.
As someone who’s been subject to a Flush Gone Bad, the advice I’ve heard over and over again is threefold:
1. “Drain and top up, don’t flush”. This was you don’t spew metal filings throughout the transmission or unduly strain valves/solenoids/etc. When you’ve driven it a while, change it again to get the remaining fluid out.
2. (this really should be #1). If you transmission has a magnetic trap for filings, remove it and clean it before you do anything else
3. Don’t overfill. It can cause cavitation and a world of hurt down the road. On that note, check the level of the fluid once you’ve done the change and make sure you haven’t overfilled.
I don’t think it’s really worth moving to a synthetic fluid unless you do things that are bad for the transmission (lots of stop-and-go, towing) on a regular basis, and even then a cooler and frequent drain/fills would be a better way to spend the dollars you’d otherwise use on synthetic fluid.
+1 for psarhjinian’s list, and add this one:
4. On the ZX2, pay close attention to the radiator. The tranny’s on this paticular car die for one major reason; leakage of coolant into the trans fluid via the internal trans cooler in the radiator. Trust me on this one. Personal experience.
I would proactively replace the radiator if it is old just to prevent this problem. Radiators are cheap, rebuilt trannys are not.
Also, dont waste your money on synthetic. Put it towards the radiator.
The automatic fluid in use confuses things, but this is a manual transmission.
Sorry… Its a manual duh. My advice was for automatics.
As for a manual, just change the fluid and replace with brand name dex merc. Those trannys are bulletproof if not abused.
psarhjinian and rmwill gave great advice, less of it is true for manual transmissions. I don’t know of anyone who’s done a tranny flush with a stickshift, but now I’m curious if you could even do it.
I didn’t know it was a manual; the line about Mercon ATF threw me.
Still, most of the same applies, except that you don’t need to worry quite so much about the damage that a flush can do; the valve-sensor-solenoid bonanza isn’t there.
I don’t know if you can flush an MT, and I still wouldn’t try, especially since you’ll probably get more of the fluid out in a drain-and-refill since there’s no torque converter to trap fluid. Do see if there’s a magnetic trap for filings and/or a magnetized area of the pan that you can clean.
As for the fluid type: if it’s an MT, use the recommended fluid and spend the money on new bushings, a short-shift kit and/or save it for replacing the clutch. Or buy yourself a latte.
Before you decide to keep that thing, I’d take a look at this. Almost makes the Brilliance look tough…
Oh come on! A 1980s Euro Escort has about nothing in common with a 1997+ Escort from the US. Well, except for the oval badge.
More appropriate link: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=81
Odd; from the myriad times I repaired my ’93 Escort I seem to recall the bones being essentially the same from then up to the end of the car’s production run?
Aside from the death-trappiness my wife and I loved that thing. Handling was reasonably neutral, light as a feather, amazing in snow with a good set of tires. Flogged it until 212k and it was still gamely struggling on when we parked it.
The best part was that going 60 was fun, going 70 was exciting, and going 80 was downright harrowing. My 9-5 would probably need to hit 130 in a straight line to be as exciting as the Escort was at road legal speeds…
Apparently some of the “bones” are different. My 2000 ZX2 daily driver (136K miles also a 5 speed) goes 80 MPH without any hint of excitement.
I read online somewhere that Escort manual transmissions had synchronizer problems. It very well may have cone synchronizers at least between some gears which may have friction linings on it. Assuming this is the case use of the Mercon ATF with friction modifier would go a long way to extending transmission life.
Plus I agree, Augusta is a warm climate. “Cold” mornings are high-20s F above zero, but it was still cold enough to make my clutch pedal squeak when I used to live there (between Martinez/Evans).
Synchromesh made a very small difference in shifting for my 99 Accord manuel. At least I think it made a very small difference.
Good God. More transmission fluid sniffing OCD. On a manual no less. Unless your owner’s manual says differently, you would be wasting your time and money by changing the oil/fluid in your transmission.
Have you ever seen what manual transmission fluid looks like after 100k miles? Have you ever performed a manual transmission fluid change and not noticed how much better the transmission shifts with new fluid (assuming the fluid is actually designed for manuals and not just a GL-5 differential oil)?
Manual transmission replacement is not that uncommon in owner’s manuals. In mine, it is not recommended in the North American schedule, but it is recommended every 60k miles outside of North America, and that’s the interval I use. It’s also as cheap and easy as an oil change. Manual transmissions are cheaper than automatics, but it’s still not cheap to replace them. You might as well take care of them for all the effort it takes to open two plugs.
Sticker on a Toyota Matrix transmission(automatic 1.8 liter) dipstick says “No need to replace ATF fluid under normal operating conditions.”
That brings in the whole nebulous meaning of ‘normal operating conditions’. Especially if you develop transmission problems while the car is under warranty.
The mfg/dealer will deem whether your car has been driven under normal conditions.
So that’s why there’s a lot of pro-active flush and fill being done.
Noticed when I went through the owners manual of the ’05 Vibe (Matrix twin) that my girlfriend owns there was a recommendation to replace fluid every 30,000 miles on the autobox under “severe conditions” but NO recommendation on when to change the fluid in the 5 speed stick she has. WTF? Should you just do it when the clutch needs replaced or what?
I guess that depends on how long your clutch lasts. Personally, if an Owner’s Manual didn’t provide a frequency for changing the fluid, I would still do it at least once every 100,000 miles, even in a modern transmission. If you go back to the 50’s the change frequency was 10,000 miles or annually, in the 60’s it increased to 30,000 miles or every three years, finally I believe it was up to 75,000 miles or five years in my wife’s 95 Mustang (changed it last year for the first time, oops). This make me want to go look at the Owner’s Manual for my ’04 Mazda.
Same as BMW’s so called ‘lifetime fill’. I say when they’ll offer lifetime warranty on the transmission, then and only then you don’t have to worry about fluid changing.
I changed the fluid in my 99 SVT Contour to the ‘honey’ a couple of weeks ago. Shift feel is better than new at 96,000 mi. The factory fill was ATF, and I did 2 previous changes with Mobil-1 ATF & a couple of ounces friction modifier. This ‘cocktail’ was supposed to be the hot ticket back in the day.
This is a good example of not always trusting the owners manual. Ford did change their fluid recommendation on the MTX-75 in the year 2000 or so.
There’s some evidence that ATF gums up the works a bit, and the ‘honey’ does indeed have a lot of anti-sludge/varnish additives. As Sajeev mentions, there’s a lot of good information on various forums. Try a combination of MTX-75, BITOG, Terry Haines, & XT-M5-QS. You’ll learn more than you probably want to.
The Ford stuff isn’t cheap ($15.00/Qt), but since the tranny in the ZX2 only holds 2 quarts, it won’t break the bank.
On the other hand, I put 240k on my old 86 Escort GT and never changed the fluid, so maybe this is a little OCD. However, I’d recommend the change just for shift feel alone.
I’m in the same category as you with my ‘98.5 Contour SVT, although I made Ford switch my car under warranty around 30k to the “honey” (complain enough about stiff shifting when cold, and prove it, then show TSBs and other data covering the MTX-75, you can go a long way).
I ended up rebuilding the tranny at 100k (put in a quaife and revised shift forks as long as it was apart – thanks to Terry Haines) and refilled with the “honey”. Now approaching 140k, suitably still tortured often, and holding up strong.
I think the reason that new cars with manual transmissions require automatic transmission fluid is because the clutch is hydraulic, as opposed to mechanical. Old manual transmissions used 90 weight gear oil.
Hydraulic clutch is defined as a means of actuation, as opposed to a manual clutch.
A ‘manual clutch’ is engaged/disengaged directly by a cable or a rod system. A ‘hydraulic clutch’ is engaged/disengaged by a master/slave cylinder arrangement.
This is distinctly different from a wet-clutch scenario, that is typical on motorcycles.I’m trying to think of a car that I have wrenched that has a wet clutch and my number is still zero.
Ergo, clutch fluid? That’s like turn signal fluid….
I just realized I made a mistake! Clutch fluid and gearbox fluid are separate. Doh… So, why then do new cars/trucks use ATF and old cars/trucks use 90 weight gear oil?
Just a wild guess, but that’s probably due to tighter manufacturing tolerances in modern machinery. Same reason why 5w20 is the OEM oil of choice for many manufacturers, but was almost unheard of 25 years ago.
What car has a wet clutch?
Seriously, what car?
Have any of you actually taken a car apart? Or even been under one?
My guess is that ATF has improved enough that it can provide adequate protection for a manual transmission used in a hot climate. It’s not an entirely new concept; my father used to use ATF during winter in the manual gearboxes of his fifties and sixties GM vehicles!
Gear design, materials, and tolerances may be factors too.
@ Shane Rimmer:
Bimmer nailed it on “lifetime” fluids. If you plan to keep the car for years, go with synthetic MTF; if not, still change it if it’ll be in your fleet much longer. I’ve seen the difference in temperature and wear a synthetic fluid can make in industrial machinery, and I’ve found that synthetic MTF shifts better when cold (not that you’re probably worried about that in Atlanta). Change the brake, power steering fluid, and clutch hydraulic fluid (if it has it) while you’re at it if you want to keep it for years. Those are usually all easy to do, and can make a big difference over time.
@ porschespeed:
Some of us have been under a car before, buy factory service manuals, and dread ever taking a vehicle in for service. : )
DSG-type transmissions use wet clutches, and I came across a hybrid drivetrain patent that uses a wet clutch system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_clutch_transmission#Clutch_types
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6585066.html
For that matter, many LSDs use a kind of wet clutch. None of those are quite what you were after with your motorcycle comparison, but you made me curious.
Porschespeed:
do you like being a rude ass on purpose? When I said clutch fluid, I was referring to the fluid which operates the hydraulic cylinder as opposed to the fluid in the gearbox itself.
newcarscostalot,
Apologies. Sometimes I interface with the ‘blinker fluid’ crowd.
Sorry if I an ass about that.
Toasty,
You’re right, I was just referencing a standard drive clutch, but you could make the case for the DSG, it does have a wet clutch scenario. I think it will be a while before one pops up cheap enough to throw in a project just for fun. but I do look forward to it.
I didn’t realize DSG boxes were sporting wet clutches until I looked it up. I’d feel a little better about owning one, since the clutches might last longer, but I’d still be scared to death of a rebuild bill. That hybrid patent is interesting. I looked to see if any production hybrids use a wet clutch (seems a good way to manage the coupling of the ICE/electric motor), but I couldn’t find that much detailed information.
toasty,
Until I pick one up cheap somewhere (highly unlikely) I don’t dread taking it apart. Once I’m into it though, I may not enjoy it. I would think the rebuilds would be about the same as a 5 or 6 speed ‘conventional’ planetary automatic. But I’m just figuring that the sort of manual nature of the DSG balances out it’s other complications. But that’s just an educated guess.
I suspect price will be a problem with DSGs for quite awhile. They’re still pretty rare, and I’m sure there’s little to no aftermarket parts availability, so you’ll have to pay whatever VAG decides. They don’t tend towards bargain pricing.
Between the electronics and the mechanicals, there’s a lot packed into a DSG, and tearing into a PDK/DSG/whatever just looks expensive. I’m sure the hooners that chipped their GTIs will let us know soon enough.
Very true, the VW chippers should provide some interesting field testing.
My sourcing will be from some horribly stuffed Pooch from an insurance auction. I’m in no hurry to grab one, by the time I get done with the current projects, they should be a bit more plentiful.
Wow, thank you! I am sorry as well for reacting in a rude manner. I am an ass as well, obviously… :-D
Thank you for being gracious.