Christopher writes:
Are you familiar with the Land Rover Three Amigos? I have a 2003 Discovery SE. The ABS, hill decent and traction control lamps all on at once. My mechanic says it’s the ABS module and the fix is $1200-1500 and may not solve the problem. What’s up with this? Sell the vehicle? How do you sell a broken car?
Sajeev answers:
Let’s go back to the Three Amigos movie: remember when Chevy Chase accidentally shot and killed the Invisible Swordsman? It’s the perfect segue to the world of blindly chasing an electrical problem. Because that’s all we have to work with, and that’s a death sentence when it comes to Land Rovers.
So we have questions that need answers. Like how did the mechanic come to that conclusion? He needed to rule out a bad wheel speed sensor and faulty wiring before reaching such a costly diagnosis. And if charming British electronics are as terrible as the Internet says, he has to test the system with a multimeter, testing voltage at every stopping point in the circuit. And using said multimeter to test resistance at the wheel sensors. If something is out of spec, replace it. If not, then perhaps the ABS module is indeed busted.
The parts aren’t cheap, and proper diagnosis of the system is worse, considering labor rates hover around $90 an hour. A 2003 Disco is worth about $7000 as a trade in, on a good day. It’s time to either trade-in at the dealer to reap the tax benefits (whilst buying something else) or dump it on craigslist for maximum cash. And if you dump it on craigslist: be realistic on pricing, take four great pictures and list the pros/cons of the vehicle’s condition in well written English. That keeps you from looking shady, which helps court a good buyer. And makes the process significantly less stressful.
Good luck asking the hard questions, or running like hell away from the Disco.
(Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com)
Disco Inferno?
PANIC AT THE DISCO!
Disco Stu!
As a former owner of the same 2003 Disco SE Model, my advice is to run from this thing as fast as you can. At 79K miles I was given $5,200 in trade for a 2008 Lexus GX-470, and the fiance (who swore she would never want to part with the Disco) now wonders how she ever got along without the Lexus.
In my case, I was just beginning to hear the infamous Disco ‘rattle of death’ that forewarned of a complete engine rebuild to the tune of around $10K (or so I was told by several in-the know owners.) Combined with exhorbitant and ever-increasing service costs on the Rover, the (new to us) Lexus is a welcome change.
Ya just have to fix that “pesky” Stability Control Issue.
Wouldn’t have that problem, or a need for the unit… if the vehicle wasn’t so top heavy / prone to tipping over on standard accident avoidance maneuvers.
Any chance you received confirmation that it isn’t just a the sensor and/or sensor wire? Here’s a quick test – jam on the brakes; does the abs system work? (ie, does it lock up, or can you feel it releasing/re-applying)? If the system is working, the module is likely fine.
If it turns out to be the sensor, the part is about $40 if I recall (never had a DiscoII, but had a buddy with one). Labour could be a few hours depending on how seized the parts are – but other then seized/rusted parts, it’s actually a relatively easy job. If it turns out to be the ABS module, which can really only be determined if your mechanic has a LR computer system (like the T4), you can pick up a used/rebuilt sensor for $400…
And remember a bad sensor will mean the info is wrong from the diagnostic computer as well!
Check it out first – then decide if you need to sell…
Will your car not pass inspection with these lights on? After all, whether or not your ABS sensor works, your brakes still do. And it’s surely not illegal to drive cars without ABS/Traction Control/Hill Descent.
Therefore, your third option is to do nothing…and keep driving. As you’ve pointed out, if you sell it, you’re going to get hosed because no one wants a car with all these damn lights on. And if you attempt to fix it, you could start throwing money down a rabbit hole. As a 7 year old car, it could have high miles, and if so and it were me I would let it begin the long slide into beaterdom.
Trying to keep old British electronics in working order will bankrupt you!
Black electrical tape over the dash lights should do the trick.
Twotone
Also check the connectors where the wheel sensors connect to the harness. Corrosion can cause all sorts of problems. ALWAYS check for connection problems before throwing parts at something.
I’m surprised a 2003 Disco is still running. I’d call the British Museum and see if they want it. Another option is call Mythbusters, maybe they need another Land Rover product to shoot at.
Well said!
The “leave it alone” advice is good stuff. These idiot lights are called that for a reason. During a rest stop in my 2009 VW Jetta’s first real road trip, I noticed a very large blister in one of the front tire’s sidewall. No warning was given by the “tire pressure warning light,” yet this thing looked like imminent explosion. And, you guessed it, after a trip to the dealership and a replacement tire installation: the tire pressure warning light was permanently ON.
Now, I’m not a tremendously smart man, but I do know when a tire has exploded on a car I’m driving. My expectation is that the auto engineers had devised a system to tell me when something was about to go wrong. But no.
While driving down the New Jersey Turnpike in the fast lane, with a tire that has just exploded and feeling the distinct sensation of aluminum alloy grinding on concrete, do I really need a small yellow light blinking on the dashboard?
So, take post #2’s Mister Blister’s advice and do the wise thing and immediately trade it in, or ignore the lights all together, or find a connection to someone in “the business” and apply a bit of Jewish Lightning.
You should make the crappy VW dealer fix the car properly and diagnose the problem. There is a sensor restep procedure that needs to be followed. It is not rocket science.
Problem: You have a Land Rover
Solution: Sell it and buy a Land Cruiser.
Honestly, Land Rover fans are probably used to it being broken, so you should still be able to sell it. Besides, the ABS module doesn’t effect the running of the car, it just disables the ABS. It went out in my old 95 Subaru at 240K and I drove it for 20,000 miles without issue.
“dump it on craigslist for maximum cash. And if you dump it on craigslist: be realistic on pricing, take four great pictures and list the pros/cons of the vehicle’s condition in well written English. That keeps you from looking shady, which helps court a good buyer. And makes the process significantly less stressful.”
Good advice, however be careful on craiglist.Carefully monitor your ad and others.
I posted and sold my wifes 2002 Highlander on craigslist last weekend. Within 4 hours of posting my ad someone else was using my pictures. I assume people probably thought I was a scammer and the number of phone calls dropped off.
I used photoshop to add some distinctive text (car,year,mileage,location) to some other photos I had taken earlier to make them harder to steal and the vehicle was sold three days later.
Confirm with your mechanic that he ran a scan of the ABS error codes with a FULLY CAPABLE code reader. As in, not some generic OBDII reader. Did he positively eliminate wheel sensors as a possible culprit?
He might need a specific Land Rover scan tool to do so. Does he have one? Then how does he know? If he cannot answer that, might be worth $100 to take it to a Land Rover dealer to be scanned.
Probably, and rightly so, your mechanic may be basing his opinion on the fact that many many many marques using the Bosch ABS module develop problems with the modules.
The solution he, and everyone else here so far, has missed? Remove the ailing module and send it to any of a number of highly reputable rebuilders where they will repair the damaged module and return it to you for a few hundred bucks. Reinstall in car, problem (usually) solved.
This is all stuff you can do yourself too. Simple simple simple.
As a first step, see if you can find a Land Rover forum online, and look on the DIY forums for, undoubtedly, several writeups and guides for what to look for.
Then, once it’s fixed, you can decide to keep or sell the Land Rover.
Looks like a slot machine in casino in Vegas if you asked me.
The odometer should spin and it should say something like “Royal Straight Flush!!!” And a bunch of quarters fall into the ashtray.
Why did you buy a Land Rover in the first place?
Simple solution from my old ’88 Sierra with an untraceable check engine light. Eventually (in my case after 4 years) the LED burns out, fixing the problem.
Next up, how to fix that metallic grinding sounds coming from your wheels Turn your radio volume to 20. Continue driving, just don’t try to stop.
Next time, buy a copy of Consumer Reports. Land Rover = solid black dots in almost every category (not good).
The Land Rover Three Amigos traveled with us in my parents’s 2000 Land Rover Freelander since around 2002 until last November when they traded it in for a new Legacy Boxer Diesel. We would take the car to the dealer and at first they replaced everything and charged more or less what it’s been said here but the three lights would come on again in two weeks. So after a year of taking the car to the dealer every month or so we just learned to live with it. Now I miss the three lights permanently on in the cluster, they were with us for almost a decade; yellow car down a slope, green car down a slope and traction control warning
If you really have to have a macho 4×4 with solid axles front and rear, why not just get the most macho vehicle in the category – a Jeep Wrangler? On the older ones like mine (2002) ABS is a rarity, no traction control, no hill descent crap, no tire pressure monitors…basically very little of the electronic gimmickery that often seems to go wrong. If you really insist on luxury, then have a trim shop install leather seats, get some good springs and adjustable shocks and it will ride well enough.
We can make jokes about American cars all day, but the reality is that British, French and Italian cars are much more fussy and problematic. Dash warning lights are only an abstract indication of what may be going on within the car. The Discovery is a solid design. But is a temperamental vehicle built to typical British standards by very iffy union labor. My suggestion is, if the ABS is working, pull the bulb and drive the Disco until light comes through the rust holes in the fenders. If you dump this and buy a Lexus or Toyota, like someone above suggested, you’re a total puss.
There is a good bit of truth to this. I always chuckle at peoples’ ignorance when I hear “you need to buy foreign if you want reliability”…I remember when you could read the tire inflation sticker or Range Rovers…with the door closed!! At the International Auto show, the only brand I saw with misaligned doors was…Jaguar…
I’m inclined to agree with the mechanic’s diagnosis of a faulty ABS module.
Remove it yourself and send the module to http://www.modulemaster.com/en/index.php It will cost a lot less. Like maybe $200.