With the autoblogosphere abuzz over Peter Cheney’s “unintended acceleration event,” Jill McIntosh has made a fascinating connection between one auto-journo’s son’s voyage of manual transmission discovery, and a former Ontario Attorney General’s killing of a cyclist back in September. Linking to a Toronto Star report on the trial of Michael Bryant, who killed cyclist Darcy Allan Shephard, McIntosh notes a strange similarity between that fatal incident and Cheney Junior’s garage door tango:
According to a statement read in court, reprinted in the Toronto Star today: Bryant hits the brakes. His vehicle stalls. Bryant tries to start his car, but it stalls again, lurching forward … Bryant tries to start the car again. He’s concentrating on the Saab’s sensitive clutch with his head down. He succeeds at restarting the engine and the Saab accelerates into Sheppard, who lands on the hood.
Obviously, two incidents do not a crisis make, but this is hardly the only evidence suggesting that manual gear-swapping is fast becoming a lost art. But do we really want to further stigmatize manual transmissions by mandating special licenses for manual-equipped cars, as McIntosh suggests?
Making clutches mandatory would not only prevent these situations, but it would also cut down on distracted driving, and generally make for better drivers… but realistically, we all know that will never happen. So, what about mandating that all driver’s tests be taken on a manual-equipped vehicle? Or, for the contrarians out here, what about banning manuals altogether? Sadly this option almost seems the most likely response, given how little demand there is for new cars with manual transmissions. Or is this just a problem for Canadian drivers?
This post saddens me.
Whoa, whoa, whoa there Ed, easy on the Canadians… Seems to me it’s more of a white-collar/blue collar issue. There are many people who’ve owned manual cars not as a choice, but as a financial necessity. These people, while perhaps not as book-smart as Mr. Bryant, are certainly more street-smart when it comes to everyday life situations, such as driving stick. Some people just “get it” when it comes driving in general, and driving stick in particular. Others are born to drive slushboxes, and seem blissfully ignorant of the fact that manual cars even exist, and could not under any circumstances be taught how to use one…
I didn’t read the story yet … just had to post here that that banner photo looks a lot like what I would think the inside of your dad’s old Ford p/u would look like. What is the little knob behind and to the left of the main shift knob? What is the little toggle switch under the dash used for?
Is the cause of the accident in Ontario demonstrably due to lack of training and or familarity with a manual? Couldn’t be just a tragic case of the driver being very distracted by an unusual circumstace? (I read an account of the explosion and evacuation of the Deepwater Horizon and one of the survivors said that a man who knew him well for 10 years couldn’t remember his name as he tried to take names of people entering the escape craft … take-away, humans when sufficiently rattled scramble their mental hard-drives like a computer dropped on the floor…)
Thought that I heard as a boy that in Germany, folks that couldn’t master a manual could only get a limited license allowing to only drive with an automatic transmission. Which makes sense to me a manual is a device that requires vastly more coordination than an automatic … laugh at me if you like, but a manual requires an additional foot, additional hand (also simultaneously off the wheel), proper sequencing of gears, matching gear and engine RPM, timely disengagement of the clutch and proper engagement of same…
Some people dance with too left feet, there is no reason to think that there are people out there that are just as clumsy in finding the right rhythm necessary to operate a manual transmission properly and safely…
I would be in favour of people having to demonstrate competence with a manual to be certified for same…
btw, when I took driver’s ed, I picked the lone Datsun B-210 over the several air-conditioned, stereo-equipped, Buick Regals, just so I would be able to learn how to drive on a clutch… since then I’ve owned two manuals (’80 Fiesta and ’89 Golf), one automatic ’95 Stratus, and an automated-manual Smart ForTwo … all my company cars over that period have all had automatics…
Yup, that’s the first manual shifter I ever used… I probably shifted my first gear when I was seven or eight. Of course, the clutch is the hard part isn’t it? That part took me a more few years. The knob you’re seeing is for overdrive.
Good noticing, Robert. I installed a Warner T-85 three speed with OD, rigged up to run manually. The “choke knob” on the floor engages OD; the toggle switch is what switches between direct and OD.
I almost always have OD engaged, which means its freewheeling function allows me to shift the main gears without using the clutch, as long as its in direct drive. I normally start in first (direct), shift clutchless to second (direct), flick the toggle to high and let off the gas for a second to engage high, then flick the toggle back to direct to make the clutchless shift to third (direct), and when I’m ready for it, flick the toggle switch to engage third OD. Gives me five perfectly spaced gears (first OD is too close to second direct to be useful). Keeps me on the ball; my entertainment center in lieu of a radio or ipod.
Edward, you know very well this is the kind of question that can generate lots of blahblah, but that cannot be completely resolved :-).
The only advantage that manual training has is it forces the driver to plan ahead. However, that same stuff can be taught with an automatic. It really comes down to intelligence and personal responsibility. Idiots can do ugly stuff with manuals, too. In fact, new drivers can cause more problems with manual transmissions. I say – test the driver’s intelligence prior to getting the license. Stupidity = no license. Under pressure even a good driver can make a mistake.
Try to unlock and start your car when a grizzly bear chases you and we’ll see…
+1
I think all new drivers should be given the driving test by a hungry bear while wearing pants made from salmon.
As a person who owns a SAAB, I never found the clutch sensitive! But, then again I have never owned a car with a slushbox.
I intend to teach both of my kids to drive a manual. Maybe I’ll send in a Piston Slap about which cars have the most bullet proof manual tranmissions.
+10.
I’m from The Netherlands originally, and from what I remember there you’d have to have good grades in school before you are even allowed to apply for a driver’s license. Actually earning your license (and yes, you do earn it) takes YEARS, and the process doesn’t start until you turn 18. It involves extensive driver’s ed, training, testing, and a graduated licensing system. Most young people can’t afford to own a car there anyways due to road taxes, insurance rates, gas costs, etc. If you own your own car by the time you’re 25 in Holland, you’re doing very well.
P.S. –Most bulletproof manual transmission? Massey Ferguson 165. Ask my dad.
Agreed. I did not two lose their clutch cables on me, but of course that would prevent the “unintended acceleration” that the article talks about.
And yes, this is a Canadian problem. Nanny staters up there. Clearly this isn’t a problem, unless, say, crazed bicycle messengers jump on your car and start attacking you. But any excuse for a new safety regulation, and then for a few hits on the followup articles.
mandatory manual would be an elegant solution to the problem of distracted driving. Just try to text and drive with a stick! (today I came upon some young woman with the slows who turned out to be texting and driving. I yelled at her good, and–she got it. She was super embarrassed.
“mandatory manual would be an elegant solution to the problem of distracted driving. Just try to text and drive with a stick!”
Seriously, Laugh. Out. Loud.
My wife, who hasn’t been categorized as a “young woman” for many years, can drive her 5 speed and talk on the phone, or sip coffee, or text, at the same time as turning down the volume on the radio, and/or rolling the windows up/down, and while doing her several different tasks can somehow pay attention to the road, because she complains about what’s going on around her whilst she’s talking to me on her phone.
She’s never had an accident in almost thirty years of driving, and drives an average of more than 20,000 kilometers a year. Not everybody can do what she does (her sister, that’s about it) but for some people, rowing their own gears will prove to be too much to concentrate on while driving.
You can’t slap a trite little solution on a compound problem.
I guess the most realistic and effective way would be driver tests with manual transmission equipped vehicles. Although I would prefer a more complete learning like: high speed emergency manouvers, wet road techniques, what to do when out of breaks, etc.
A stupidity test would also be very useful, but I guess that would ban 99% of the current licenced drivers (around the world).
Statistically speaking, incidents like these fall so far behind those due to other, more common causes (aggression, distraction, etc.) that it just isn’t worth addressing by the govt. As valuable as tightened driver training and toughened licensing standards would be, singling out manual transmissions is unlikely to yield useful results.
I’m not trying to be Mr Euro here( even though I think I am already) but the problem with getting a license here is that its way to easy. Back in the old countries it takes a considerable amount of time and money to get a license. That time and money gets someone the ability to drive properly (instead of park, like in this country). Teaching people how to drive a stick should be mandatory here, just as it is over there. Not teaching manual is akin to only teaching people only halfway to drive. Its a dis-service to them and to everyone in total.
The Europeans can be more picky about who gets a license because the tend to have reasonably complete public transportation options.
If you suddenly developed standards about who was allowed to drive, you’d have to start putting in a lot of bus routes and such so that people still had a way to get to their jobs and such.
Out here in Missouri, if you don’t have a driver’s license, you’d better work on your cardio, cause you are a pedestrian.
+10^100
I’ve driven in Germany and the driving is like night and day versus driving here. It’s as though everyone not only knows the rules, but also follows them diligently. To put it in other words, they seem to take driving _seriously_, and with serious consequences, monetary or criminal, should rules be broken. Compare this to many who see driving as a nuisance that they must endure in order to get from A to B whilst they apply cosmetics, eat and drink, and talk or text on mobile phones from the moment they start their journey until the moment it ends.
I’m all for setting the training and testing thresholds at a much higher level in the hopes that the higher standard of entry would cull out those who do not take driving seriously. While we’re at it, raise the frequency of and standards for vehicle safety inspections. Daily I see vehicles with headlamps, taillamps, or turn signals not functional.
Sorry Toxicroach, that cop out only works when it comes to European car reliability. Excusing lackluster driving education based upon more “need” is disingenuous at best. This country teaches people how to park, not acutally drive. My test consisted of going around the block once, BUT most of the time was spent on backing into a space, and street parallel parking. It was a joke! More and more jobs require college degrees, but you don’t see many colleges completely lowering the standards to allow everyone that can just read and write their name in.
I’m not saying driver’s ed doesn’t need a come back. However, my point is that you can’t really stop, say, the bottom 33% of drivers from driving unless you’re going to provide an alternate means of transportation. In my part of the country, it’s driving or walking. I don’t know how you’d kick all the old, stupid, and uncoordinated people off the road without making the economy collapse or something.
Let’s see: A flawed Technology X contributes to death of a bicyclist; desired solution: install Technology X in all cars! Wow, the contorted logic of stick shift enthusiasts never cease to amaze.
Seriously though, say a pilot with no multi rating hops into a twin, has an engine failure, turns into a dead engine, stall-spins in, kills a golfer at an ajacent course. Is this a reason to mandate all pilots to learn to fly twins? Ridiculous!
May as well suggest we ban bicyclists off city streets once and for all. That would save their lives for sure.
+1
Manual transmission is just like typewriter. Yes, it had its uses but it’s outdated and has been replaced by superior new technologies.
Easy there, wsn, the manual transmission may be “old” but that doesn’t mean it’s been surpassed by “superior technology”. Some of the latest dual-clutch transmissions provide better fuel economy, but when it comes to the stick shift it’s a matter of personal taste.
I love rowing my own gears, yes, even in stop-and-go traffic. I’ll continue purchased manual transmissions so long as I can, thank you very much.
Manual transmission is just like typewriter. Yes, it had its uses but it’s outdated and has been replaced by superior new technologies.
I think a better analogy is a digital camera and an ink jet printer vs. oil paint, brushes, and canvas. Sure you can get a more accurate perfect picture with a digital camera, but the oil painting can be better in many ways that would be difficult for the digital camera to achieve.
+2 Pete. Bats in the belfry.
Maybe not all tests need to be taken on manual cars (since that would require nearly all Americans to buy another vehicle), but I would like to see use of “D” banned during testing. As more and more autos come equipped with gear selection overrides it should eventually be possible to expect that most people have access to such a car. I’ve seen people who don’t know manual make a true mess of themselves with even friendly systems like Tiptronic. So, a driving instructor could easily asses a person’s understanding of gearing, weight transfer and engine load by watching them use a transmission out of full-auto mode.
My ideal situation though…all tests on manuals, owned by the DMV/state police, given in-part on closed courses owned by same, with multiple driving and book tests as part of the process. Those same facilities and evaluators should be available for hire to anyone preparing for a test or taking a (needs drastic improvement ASAP anyway) defensive driving course. And yes, it is far too easy and cheap to get a license in this country, even if it is morphing into a “right” instead of a privilege.
If any province would pick up on nanny state legislation it would be Ontario.
Manual transmissions are a dying breed. It’s sad but true. No way society is going to put up with forcing people to use what most people think of as obsolete technology on their drivers’ test, or learn how to use it, etc.
Obviously I don’t know the age of various posters and I’m sure there are some manual-only oldsters in this enthusiast crowd, but I will generalize and say that twentysomething or thirtysomething guys who say anyone should be able to drive a manual are just off base. Heck I was one of them, now in my mid forties I’m making peace with the automatic transmission as the new norm. I know more than a few people who are car enthusiasts and loved their manuals in their younger days who are now automatic only, as knees degenerate and sprawl causes more stop-and-roll traffic.
I may be getting there, I hate to drive my Miata in stop and roll traffic and now it’s mainly for occasional fun driving and/or when I know I won’t be in any stop/roll traffic, and more and more of my daily driving is in the slushbox Lexus. I enjoy a once or twice weekly spin in the Miata and row the gears enthusiastically then, but that’s mainly for fun If could have only one car it would be an automatic — I would not have said that five years ago.
Maybe in the US. But not elsewhere. The cost of a manual is less than an automatic, and in Europe it’s pretty much defacto to learn on a manual (otherwise you get a crippled automatic licence). Rental cars and vans tend to be manual. You basically drive a manual unless you wanted to spend more.
And that incident in Canada isn’t really an anti-manual story. That guy survived getting bumped by the car— it’s that he went into a road rage and started clinging to the car and ended up getting thrown by the panicking driver. That could happen with anyone.
In any case, how many people have been killed by people applying makeup or talking on their cell phones in automatics? A lot more than have been run over by inexperienced people fumbling with a manual. On the whole, I’d feel a hell of a lot safer if there were more manuals on the road, simply because it’s a lot more difficult to stop paying attention and eat/talk/do your makeup when the car is constantly demanding feedback.
And in that kids defense, I managed to ruin a garage door with an automatic Toyota Previa. So I could easily see blasting a garage door in that thing without any need for elaborate explanation.
Couple things-
Word. To the mandatory manual training idea. My lady doesn’t “need to learn how to drive a stickshift, thankyouverymuch.” Problem is, my car is a stick. My next car will be a stick. I’m not an enthusiast, it’s just that I like to control the engine and I’m a cheap bastard. Win win win.
So our choices are: we take her slushbox POS -5 mpg Jeep Cherokee with a solid chance of catastrophic engine failure on the roadtrip, or we take my car which is far cheaper/more comfortable/reliable, but is undriveable in the event I break a leg or sprain an ankle.
I’ve begged for the opportunity to go to the parking lot and ease her into the driving experience. It doesn’t have to be exhaustive; she doesn’t need to learn how to downshift going up Vail Pass. Just an intro to basic throttling and engaging. 15 min to a half hour. No dice. I try to empathize with her resistance, but as it is deeply engrained and completely irrational, I drop it.
Oh, and as for the kid wrecking the 997 in the link above. Holy $#1+ !!! Kid gets performance driving lessons out of that? Pretty sure if I had a child that pulled a Cameron like that in my garage, they’d be parking in handicapped spaces for the rest of their days.
I hear you. My wife for years drove an MT RX-7, I used to love driving that car too. Over 15 years and some knee surgery later she is automatic only, the few times she has had to drive my Miata it was very painful. You know what the say about aging, it sucks but it beats the alternative. There are some MT snobs on this thread that will be eating their words in a decade or two. I know because I was one of them (not here obviously, but you get the point).
xyzzy:
There are some MT snobs on this thread that will be eating their words in a decade or two. I know because I was one of them (not here obviously, but you get the point).
MT snobbism is a molehill compared to the slush box masses’ Everest of ignorance & incompetence.
I’m in the same boat as you. Wife & I recently did 2300 miles in a week. The vehicle choices were sportbike (You must be joking), STi (6 speed stick) or neon.
We ended up getting a rental since my wife can’t drive stick _but_learned_to_drive_in_a_predominantly_stick_country_ !!
When we go to visit the in-laws, she navigates in English & I push the gears around as none of her family own an automatic and they are hard if not impossible to find (renting) as well.
Perhaps people should train on stick here just so they can drive somewhere outside the US if necessary….?
cackalacka – My brother is in the same situation. He drives a stick Outback XT and his fiancee refuses to learn to drive. They end up taking her Vibe everywhere to split up the driving.
xyzzy – I was one of these MT snobs… until I tore my ACL and 1) had to drive my 6MT GTI home w/ a swollen and very painful left knee and 2) would have been stuck in the house an extra 3 weeks had I not just purchased an AT 4Runner shortly after my reconstruction surgery. I can drive my GTI again, but it is still quite painful as surgery was only 2 months ago… and I’m only 27 years old.
Robstar – when I rented in Scotland, I had to specifically request a MT versus the ATs they kept offering. I’m not sure where you went, but I’m slightly surprised that finding an auto rental is difficult.
I agree that everyone should know how to drive a manual in the case of an emergency. That is how I got my wife to first consider a stick shift in her MINI and she ended up liking it. I’m very happy to have one auto in the arsenal, though. You never know when you’ll need it. I disagree with saying that an MT makes you a less distracted driver, though. While driving my 6MT, my wife is on my case for multitasking while driving (fiddling w/ the ipod or radio, using the bluetooth, messing w/ the HVAC.. no texting, though). I get my idle hands when I’m on the interstate and haven’t shift out of 6th for a bit, so that covers about every trip I make around here. I think that people would continue texting, smoking, eating, talking, etc all while trying to drive a stick at the same time! It would probably just make the problem worse, haha.
Yeah, I should add that I’m not really much of a snob, I’m just a cheap bastard who knows what he likes.
And Q- I totally forgot that my right ACL has been shot for the past 20 years, thanks to a gentleman sliding underneith me as I rebounded a bball in a pickup game… The impetus is there for us, and it’s not like I’m asking my girl to learn how to speak Esperanto.
Sure the automatics are rock solid… but… I replaced my Accords clutch cylinder shortly after getting it ~40k (previous owner was a tad bit rough on it, methinks) and it lasted me until 215k. 160k+ on the same cylinder? Not too shabby.
And I’m with the concensus here about auto vs manual when it comes to driver focus.
This morning, a frat-douche in a Land Rover rolled through a stop sign, into my lane (left), oblivious to the mass of steel moving ~40 mph I was esconsed in. Slam on the breaks. Dude moves over into the right lane and continues to putter, head slumped over. Pulls up to the stoplight next to me 1/4 mile down the road. Dude is busy on his iPhone; so busy he could not hear the obscenity-laced piece of advise I shouted at him.
While stick-shift distractions like this is possible moving 65 down the freeway, you can’t felate Steve Jobs while driving a manual in city traffic.
You can call CVTs and improvements in auto mpg technology an improvement, but with all the freakin video eye candy folks are getting installed on their dash, coupled with cell-phone-game-boys; in a world filled with idiots, active safety is more important than ever. Active safety starts with awareness and control, two things that manual transmission will ALWAYS have an advantage in.
Maybe drivers licenses should have an additional certification for manual transmissions similar to motorcycles. Take the course, pass the test and you’re good to go. Actually, drivers should be required to ride a motorcycle or scooter for a year before being approved to drive a car. If you can pay attention and survive the first year, you will be a better automobile driver.
Twotone
That is actually the case in Germany – if you take the test on an automatic, your license is restricted to cars with an automatic.
I also would dispute the superior technology thing.
Any automatic transmission lacks the joie de vivre of a manual. I don’t pick a manual because it gives better fuel economy, or is more reliable, or what have you. I drive a stick because a manual transmission demands that you bond with the car. You must feel its vibrations, listen to its roar, pay close attention to the gauges. Your entire body is involved in piloting it; your mind is engaged in watching the road more closely because you must make all kinds of subconscious decisions you don’t have to make in an automatic. In short, driving an automatic is a chore, driving a stick is a pleasure. Most automatic commuters view their daily drive as a boring chore; the manual driver views it as a time for a bit of communion with the car and road. People try to optimize the fun out of life by making everything easier. The manual is NOT the optimal choice, and it’s the very things that make it the irrational choice that make it superior.
Well said sir!
A very right-brained way of thinking in a continually-narrowing left-brained world.
An automatic transmission, to my mind, is one of those things that shifts a car toward the ‘appliance’ end of the spectrum.
Basically, if you can drive a fairground dodgem, you can drive an automatic. Go pedal, stop pedal and a steering wheel – well done, Son, you’re driving the car!
As a 27-year-old, it’s been my experience that my love of manuals is the minority viewpoint. As my generation ages, we’re certainly moving toward the “lost art” argument. Most of my friends can’t drive stick, and really don’t see why they’d need to learn. Although there have been a few incidents involving hapless drivers and manual transmissions, it’s hard to make the case that we need the nanny state to step in and regulate this. If a government felt compelled to “do something” (and don’t they always), mandatory bluetooth with voice recognition for texting would probably be a more cost-effective lifesaver than mandatory slushboxes.
Sure, one could argue that the “problem” of shifting gears with maximum efficiency is addressed by newer technology, but to many, that’s not the problem a manual ‘box solves… the newer technology just can’t be as engaging, the price tag is high, the reliability record isn’t established, and it’s just unsuitable for certain vehicles–isn’t anyone else saddened by the thought of anything other than a manual in, say, a Miata, a Wrangler, or a Mini, among others?
i like the manual because it gives me more control but automatics are way more relaxing to drive. but their biggest downside is durability, my gf’s 02 accord drives like shit because of the crappy auto in it.
Most car crashes involves cars with automatic transmissions. Ban autoboxes, I say!
twotone,
Don’t be too sure that it’s manual only for motorcycle license testing. When I got my scooter (150cc)I realized that, in VA (and PA was this way, too) all one has to do is get a 150cc scooter and a motorcycle learner’s permit. Drive the scooter around for a week to get the feel of it, learn to do figure-eights. Go take your test at the local DMV. Pass easily due to the auto in the scooter.
You are now legal for that Honda CBR1000RR Fireblade you’ve always wanted . . . . . . . . . . or that Huyabusa.
I do completely agree with your idea that a prospective car driver should HAVE to live with a scooter or small motorcycle for 1-2 years before he’s allowed behind the wheel of a car. And preferably on a British-style learner/engine capacity system.
New Mexico is the same. You get a motorcycle license and that’s it. 150cc scooter gets you license and as soon as I hit the lotto I can go get a giant cruiser Harley that likely weighs more than my first car did.
Apparently this training and more needs to start first in the District of Columbia:
“D.C. drivers among least knowledgeable”
http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2010/05/24/daily41.html?surround=lfn
The situation you describe is aleady a fact in most European countries. You can do your driver’s exam on an automatic transmission-equipped car, but then your license restricts you to drive only a slushbox. If you pass your test on a manual transmission, you can drive both.
If you are not used to a manual gearbox, you should stay out of the car equipped with it.
Where I live only 30% of all cars are equipped with an autobox and when you do your examination in an automatic gearbox car, the drivers licence is only valid for cars with an automatic gearbox.
The road is not for experimenting with manuals transmissions without a teacher.
An hour ago, I was almost run over in the Kroger parking lot by a lady smoking a cigarette, talking on her cell phone, and “driving” a Lexus 350. Manuals will not be banned, but in the future cars will be robotic so the humans can really ignore what is going on around them.
Several years ago, I brought my Forester to local dealer for service. When I was informed my car was ready, the service writer and I noticed the hood was up and about to receive a jump start. It appeared the go-fer assigned to drive my Subie back from the service lot had no idea about the clutch/starter lock-out and assumed the battery was dead. At that point I was almost afraid of what would have happened if he had gotten it started. Anyway, the mildly annoyed (annoyed at said go-fer) service writer accompanied me to my car, he hopped into the driver’s seat and drove us back. The best part was, he didn’t have a right hand but handled a stick better than that kid could probably ever hope to do.
I didn’t know about it either at one time. I’d been driving a ’67 Rambler with 3 on the tree, and had not driven anything newer (with a stick) in many years. I simply figured people were smart enough to press the clutch and/or put it in neutral when starting. I had not realized the nanny state had idiot proofed the cars. Thought I had a dead battery too.
Maybe the kid gave drivers more credit for brains than you’re giving him?
It wouldn’t bother me if all driver license applicants had to demonstrate ability to handle a manual transmission. Heck, make them show they can drive a Model A with manual spark advance and non-synchromesh gearbox!
I agree, people can learn pretty much anything if given enough time and effort.
A bit of time spent driving around an empty car park (or the grounds of the local mental hospital) would soon get you past the kangaroo jumping, gear crunching etc.
Saying that a driver just needs to sit there and point the car in the right direction is a bit like saying an actor just needs to stand in the right part of the stage and say his lines at the right time. It’s all a bit more nuanced than that.
Automatics are superior technology?? Not when we’re talking about durability and maintenance!
Of the automatic equipped cars I’ve owned, only 2 had automatics that weren’t completely awful. By awful I mean they sucked… they shifted too soon, or had rough shifts or made odd noises, etc. People sometimes complain about the herky jerky of manuals, but that has more to do with the driver than the car.
I’m glad most people drive automatics based on who many bad drivers there are who make that choice.
I always love how “Europe” supposedly produces better drivers because of tougher licensing and manual trannies.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_mot_veh_dea-health-motor-vehicle-deaths
It needs to be looked into in some detail. As you can see from the link, Belgium has just about the same number of motor vehicle deaths per capita as the US. Canada, where the driving conditions are similar to the US is about the same as Germany. Japan has a lower death rate than Germany, Italy, France, Belgium, Ireland, and Denmark. Maybe we should copy the Japanese licensing system?
Then there is this, from 1998 –
http://www.mrtraffic.com/worlddrivers.html
As we can see, the US is safer than France, Denmark, Poland, and Portugal. So much for the superiority of “European” licensing systems.
A special endorsement for manuals will virtually kill the manual tranny. Most people take their parents car for the driving test, and most parents have an auto. Even if you test in a private driving school car, it’s likely to be an auto. Just getting hold of a manual on which to take the test will be a difficulty for many.
Besides, it’s not that hard to learn. My son learned to drive a manual by buying a Honda Civic with a manual. We had a couple days of parking lot training, then he was out on the streets.
We’ve “discussed” traffic safety many many times on TTAC. At the risk of sounding like a broken record – accidents are mostly caused by people doing things they shouldn’t be doing. I’d only support tougher licensing if you can prove to me that it will result in significantly fewer people doing what they shouldn’t be doing.
Suggested solution leading to significantly fewer people on the road: Annual, tough relicensing testing (like with airplanes), on the road and/or seriously challenging test track, with a relative passing score. I.e.: Everyone scoring in the bottom 20th percentile is forbidden from driving for the following year.
It’s a privilege, not a right.
Everyone scoring in the bottom 20th percentile is forbidden from driving for the following year.
NeverGonnaHappen dot com.
That’s a recipe for an instant double dip recession. Sorry, but the US economy depends on a lot of borderline people being able to drive.
I work with one such menace to society. When pressed, he knows he has a problem – at lunch, some co-workers won’t ride as passengers with him. He compensates by driving larger and larger (and – “ya know, safer” – for him) trucks.
It would be interesting to see the safety improvements that a change in enforcement would bring. Shift away from speed enforcement (most of which is done in light traffic conditions where a pull over is safe) to one focused on dangerous lane changes, tailgating, distracted driving, etc.
Airplanes do not require relicensing. A pilot’s license is a lifetime license and never needs to be renewed. You are required to get recurrent training every two years but that isn’t a test or exam.
You are however required to renew your medical certification on an interval that decreases as you age and/or move up in skill levels.
From an enthusiasts perspective it sounds neat. How about if we simplify it & say that anyone that has 3 moving violations in a year gets suspended for a year…?
Ed, before you post quotes from newspapers, out of context, do a little more research.
The cyclist is question had a blood alcohol twice the legal limit, he was in a rage, 4 or 5 other car drivers who had problems with this bike messenger earlier came forward.
In the U.S. you are permitted to defend yourself. In the U.S. this bike messenger would likely have been shot. Do you report those incidents? Mr Bryant was trying to escape, panic does strange things to people.
The charges against Mr. Bryant were dropped. There was no trial.
This article disappoints on many levels.
But you did get lots of comments on the manual versus auto advantage. Is that what TTAC is about now?
i hear you, and agree on the point that all licenses should be acquired on a manual. that way you can drive both.
the fact that the UK has the choice of Man vs Auto license baffles me.
as for accidents with Manuals, the same can happen with an automatic, that’s just down to the ineptitude or lack of attention on the part of the driver.
“the same can happen with an automatic”
Hear hear! I sat through my girlfriend learn how to drive automatic (literally for the first time aside from just parking a vehicle), and it struck me that she was making mistakes that were awfully similar to those of a first time manual driver. I saw a smoky burnout starting on an incline (no clutch…where’s the pickup point?), and it was clear that she was kind of scared of the fact that the car was always in a forward gear (garage door indeed). The real kicker was that first unintended mid-corner downshift, something that should terrify anyone with an understanding of physics or who is used to the control of a full manual. She was pissed off at what she saw and now considers them outright dangerous instead of just slovenly/un-sexy (her former opinion), even if she’s now fine driving them around when necessary.
They really aren’t safe, at least when paired with high power FWD sleds or pre-stability control RWD’ers, and people are being done a serious disservice by not being exposed to that distinction.
Agreed – some aspects of automatics are quite dangerous. ‘creep’ has caused some bizarre incidents such as people being run over by their own cars while loading groceries. An auto will accellerate hard in a lot of accidental situations where a manual would simply stall.
Almost all of those ‘Sudden Unintended Accelleration’ incidents involving Audis in the ’80s were on auto versions. (The NTSB report is quite amusing – they try very hard to find a polite way of saying ‘The morons were mashing down on the gas instead of the brake’).
I guess the only real argument for a manual is that it makes “unintended acceleration” at least for more than 10 feet pretty much impossible. If the “runaway Prius” had a manual, the driver would just press in the clutch and that would be the end of the problem.
The rest of the arguments are just a matter of taste . . . and the obvious point that someone with a physical disability affecting their left leg is not going to be able to work a manual. Yeah, the manual box should last forever . . . but clutches certainly don’t. So, I rate the longevity issue as a tossup. There are a lot of autoboxes out there that run forever with virtually no maintenance. The two highest-mileage cars I’ve owned – a Volvo 740 with 140K and a Toyota Prius with about the same, had autoboxes that never required service in their lives. I’d be willing to bet that most manual cars with that kind of mileage have had the clutch replaced . . . at least once.
I think it’s kind of silly for European countries to license separately manual and autobox drivers. Fact is, operation of a manual transmission is pretty self-limiting. If you don’t know how to operate it, you’re not going to be driving the car, whether you want to or not. You just can’t.
Shift for yourself fans should enjoy manuals while they can. Clearly, the search for even greater fuel economy is going to mandate transmissions that are controlled by electronic brains whose programming is optimized for best results on the EPA fuel economy cycle. It’s already the case that autobox versions of some cars (usually with autoboxes that don’t rely on torque converters) have higher mileage ratings than manual tranny versions of the same car with the same engine. Using 7 or 8 forward gears also allows the engine to be operated in a narrower RPM band, where its performance can be optimized as well. There’s no driver who’s going to be able to operate a manual box with that many cogs as effectively. (Yeah, I know about long-haul truckers who use that many gears; and I’ve driven a truck with a 4-speed manual and a two-speed rear axle, giving it 8 cogs. But they require a degree of concentration to operate well that most drivers either lack or are unwilling to expend. And even those trucks are for highway driving, not the urban/suburban driving that most of us do.)
One of these days, I’ll drive one of those dual-clutch autoboxes. I’m anxious to see what it drives like. With computer-controlled rev matching, that seems to be the ideal — let the computer do the job or do it yourself when you feel like it.
Assuming that it works . . . .
I’ve driven a couple of them and they are leagues ahead of any other auto tranny once under way. But they are inferior to tc autos and manuals at low engine speeds and around town situations.
It kind of ironic that the torque converter is finally reaching ready for prime-time status in terms of smoothness, reliability and shift-logic, and it is promptly being shoved aside by CVT and dual clutch units that have their own issues. I still prefer the dual clutch to any of the others, but just like the tc, the technology is under-developed by the standards we should be holding car companies to.
@tedward, curious question from someone who’s never driven a DSG: do they creep forward in drive, like tc autos?
Also regarding your point about low speed, that’s too bad because it seems to me the biggest enthusiast use case for the DSG is that in stop and roll traffic you can choose to let it do the work, and do the work yourself when it’s fun. However to reinforce your point if you read the Car and Driver long term test of a Jetta TDI with DSG, they complained about the same thing, this is their description, from http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q1/2009_volkswagen_jetta_tdi_diesel-long-term_road_test:
From a stop, the DSG automatically engages a clutch when the driver toes the throttle. But the engagement is slow enough to allow the engine to rev up, and once the clutch does engage, the car lurches forward. Often the lurches were severe enough to break the traction of the front tires, which then summons the traction control into action, which, in turn, shuts down the power. […]some of the blame must attach to the lag of the TDI’s 2.0-liter turbo-diesel. At best, it’s an annoyance, but editor-at-large John Phillips did experience the car’s complete refusal to move when the Jetta acted as though it had slipped itself into neutral. “Turning against oncoming traffic, the Jetta refused to move. Full throttle and zero movement; happened twice…”
My driver’s ed class included a segment where they let us drive a car with a manual around a huge parking lot and let us figure out the basics on our own. That was a fun part of the course!
The problem with manuals is the clutch engagement varies significantly. Put me in an old truck with lots of engine noise and vibration plus boatloads of torque and a forgiving clutch and I’m ready to drive in traffic. Put me in a car with a clutch that engages abruptly and a quiet engine without much low end torque and I’ll probably stall the engine. Some manuals require more practice than others.