Find Reviews by Make:
Whoever said there’s no replacement for displacement? French Peugeot surely doesn’t think so. Brazil’s Bestcars makes us salivate with the news that Europe will get the chance to fawn over Peugeot’s new medium compact, the 308 GTI. And what do we get? Definitely not that one. The car has 200 hp and torque of 275 Nm. All from a puny 1.6L mill. That’s 125 horses per liter.
The secret of course is technology. And there’s a lot of it. Direct injection, variable valve timing and lifting scheme, which eliminates the throttle (similar to BMW’s Valvetronic). Not to mention special 18 inch wheels with 225/40 rubber, 10 mm lower suspension and little finishing touches like a wing an Audi-esque steering wheel.
Is that enough to make you go French?
22 Comments on “Brazilians Aren’t Worthy, Either...”
Read all comments
“Is that enough to make you go French?”
No. I would hate myself in the morning.
Really? Why?
Is the Peugeot RCZ on offer in Brazil? It is based on the 308 platform, too.
No, unfortunately the RCZ is another one we are unworthy of. Now, yes the 308 GTI “borrows” many of its hardware bits from the RCZ. Good catch!
Engines without turbo sucks!
…because, they’re not blown?
Come on America, you can better! No nation has more Nobel prize winners and great univeristies than the USA. You placed men on the moon when I was 8 years old. You are driving around in 60 mph and getting 20 mpg from your gas guzzling sleds. Here we are getting minimum 32 mpg, we are often hitting 100 mph. We are changing oil every 9000mi and are towing 3000 lbs trailers with our 3000 lbs cars without they breaking down and without accidents.
Turbo?
For that kind of power, I would still go with the Civic Si. Build to last, (much) better resale value, exclusivity and the best 4 cilinder sound this side of a Superbike
I would also choose a Civic. But mainly because of the quality.
Honda makes fantastic engines, but they (and others like BMW gas engines) don’t have much bottom grunt. This is something that Americans have always understood. Torque rules indeed. On track and off. Then you basically have two options, cubic inches or turbo (or supercharger). America did always prefer big engines with lots of torque and that fits also great with a slushbox and huge ACs. But look at Europe, fantastic diesel engines combined with automatics if you so prefere, very hard to beat!
Agreed on the rational side of my head. But the Peugeot has a certain “je ne sais quoi” about it. And history. And handling without being too harsh. No I haven’t friven thies Peugeot but my comments are based on my experience with many other Peugeot. My favorite one of all time, the 205.
The car has 200 hp and torque of 275 Nm. All from a puny 1.6L mill. That’s 125 horses per liter.
Turbo ? Yeah, has to…
The Honda CBR600RR 4-cyl bike produces 118Hp for 600cc.
That’s just 196Hp/L to the Peugeot’s 125.
Marcello, see how Hp/L can be a misleading term.
Give us the torque/mass figures instead please, more useful as a performance indicator.
While on the subject of torque 275n-m may not play with the US audience (205lbs-ft) either. Some of us here have lost our slide rules !
Something else – I need to know rpm and stroke, if I’m to be impressed.
This tells me how much stress the engine is under because I can get an idea of the piston speed. Anything over 20m/s (4000ft/min) is racing territory and will require a lot more maintenance.
For the bike
Max rpm is 13500rpm Bore & Stroke is 67mm x 42.5mm.
Giving it a piston speed of 19.12m/s which is as close to the wall you can get(20m/s)with series production metallurgy.
But let us say the piston speeds of both engines run to the wall. Then knowing that : –
Power is proportional to the combined piston crown area of all cylinders.
In this case assuming we are talking 4-cyls we just need to compare cylinder diams, although the thought of a 1.6L in a V6 config just to avoid going too much oversquare has me salivating.
For the Honda to make 200Hp it would need (root200/118)x67mm = an 87.2mm bore. Which suggests an oversquare ratio > 2 ! Umm.. not this year.
QED If the Honda can’t compete theoretically, even with larger bores, then the Peugot engine just has to be turbocharged.
BTW it appears not many would-be drivers can drive high rpm cars. They just won’t rev them and then complain that the car is underpowered. Case in point, the Corolla XRS was originally introduced with a Yamaha upgrade to its 1.8L. The car didn’t sell because the enhancements left torque unchanged – even though it could be safely revved to 7800rpm.
Two years ago, while wandering the local dealership, I came across the XRS but this time it was sporting the Camry’s 2.7L engine under its hood. Torque rules !!
Hi!
Good questions all, and I’d like to see the answers, too. Maybe some time in the future we’ll get more info, but for now that’s all I Have. I was just impressed withe raw numbers from a run of the mill Peugeot.
The 308 Peugeot is not particularly heavy. Wouldn’r thisnk this one is either. It comes with a six speed manual, so the gearing can help a lot. Plus it has a very flat toruqe curve, and maximum torque is available from 1,700 rpm up to 4,500 rpm (according to website mentioned in article).
And again, according to source, no turbo.
Of course the engine got a turbo! This engines has all the tricks. Variable valves twins sscroll turbo. This is a fantastic engine and shows what we can do in europe. Look also at VW gas engines with superchargers AND turbo. And all diesel enignes have turbos. With turbo you get good torque from under 2000rpm AND lots of HP AND good MPG. Saab has done this since the seventies. Olsmobile was first but not so successful.
Just remember that the engine in the 2.0L S2000 sold in Japan had 250HP. That’s 125 HP/L. In the US we got the S2000 with 120 HP/L due to tougher emmission standards. Also the engine in the S2000 predates this engine by about 10 years and has proven very reliable.
Yes 250 useless HP, no torque. Top power at 8300rpm! Top torque at 7500rpm! Top rpm was over 9000! Thi is ok if the formula in your racing class don’t allow turbos. Completely worthless in everyday driving. The VW Rabbit GTI and the Peugeot 308 GTI is also great everyday commuters and take the kids to school car.
The engine in the car I currently own and use as a daily driver for the past three years has Toyota’s 1.8L 2ZZ engine which makes maximum torque at 7200 RPM, max power at 7800 RPM, has 100 HP/L and redlines at 8200 RPM. I’ve had no complaints at all in stop and go traffic as the low weight of the car compliments the engine.
I have also had the chance to drive my friend’s previous generation VW GLI which has a 1.8L Turbo with the same HP as the engine in my car. I honestly found the turbo lag in stop and go traffic much more annoying then the lack of low and mid range torque in my car. On the highway and twisty country roads the power in the 2ZZ is always available if your willing to drop a couple gears and rev match the engine to around 6000 RPM. No wait, no turbo lag, just instant power.
I honestly think that the ability of a high revving engine to be effective as a daily driver depends alot on how much the car weighs and how it is geared. A close ratio stick shift and low weight help alot in stop and go traffic.
All this proves an earlier point that there are those that can drive a high rpm engine, RGS920, and then there are those that cannot stroker49.
The XRS engine that RGS920 drove was a 2005/6. The short lived XRS with the 2ZZ-GE, Yamaha inspired,was discontinued for 2007 and returned later with the 2.4L 2AZ-FE engine from the Camry. Not 2.7L as I previous alluded. It is the Camry that in early 2009 moved to the 2AR-FE 2.7L engine in some markets.
Whether the XRS is as nimble with the heavier powertrain a moot point, but the vehicle will now be driveable for a larger audience of the buying public.
What new car doesnt have a turbo?
The Yaris ??
I was over at Wiki and saw that they now have a turbocharged version of the INZ-FE, the Yaris engine BTW, that makes 150HP !! But don’t laugh.
Probably not so widely known is that with the original engine, the 2-dr Echo with 5-spd claimed an 8.5sec ramp to 60mph. In this 2032lb vehicle, the 1NZ-FE with its extended torque band at 105lbs-ft, thanks to VVt-i, certainly took some beating. And still does, the way I drive it. Always being in the right gear at the right time and never forgetting that the Echo doesn’t have the steering ability to go with that power. Or any power for that matter ! Definitely needs a sway bar and other missing steering components but that would add 170lbs and then it would be a different car. Later on, in North America, it would get all that plus a new name – Yaris.
Marcelo – Peugeot 308 GTI – could be the TI = turbo induction ?
Carlos +1 Yes I had my eye on the Civic SI coupe but as a second car too rich for me.
This 1.6 engine is designed by BMW ( for use in the MINI) and manufactured by Peugeot. It is the best part of the car. Otherwise the 308 is nothing special.
Oi Marcello, If this makes you feel a little better, we won’t have the 308 GTI in Mexico either!
They will built a very few hundreds to sell on France only.
About the engine, it is the same engine used on the 207, 207 RC, 308 and the 3008 crossover, I guess that PSA is using the same to simplify maintainance and stock parts supply overseas.
There is a variant of the same engine without turbo, it gives 120Hp. The rest is turbo charged rated
150 on the 207 CC and 207 hatchback and 175 on the 207 RC. I tried a friend of mine 207 RC with a chip repro and it feels really different than the stock one. I don’t remember the power output for the 3008 but i beleive it will be 150Hp, the crossover will be on Mexican showrooms next week and will be MXP 325,000 that is like USD$24,998.
I also tried the 308 CC last week it has the very same engine, but it is rated as 140Hp@5,800 RPM, anyway the very nervous salesman didn’t allow me to explore the limits of the beautiful CC…;-)
I agree the Peugeots have certain “je ne sais quoi” i already have one and will get another soon hopefully.
Saudades do Mexico.