To anyone who reads my articles, (that’d be Bertel and my mother) you’d know that I’m not a big fan of Ford. Mark Fields is Susan Docherty for Ford, their cars underwhelm me, and I don’t really like the company as a whole. Having said that, I am a journalist. (Don’t laugh! I am!) And I am professionally impartial. So, when I was on the train last night, I decided to do a quick rundown of Ford’s situation. Currently, they are the darlings of the North American market and Europe loves them, too. They turned a big profit in the first quarter of this year and confidence is growing in the company. But despite all of the this, the markets aren’t convinced.
On 4/26/2010 Ford’s share prices hit a high of $14.46, as if it was the heydays of 2003/2004. It was downhill from there. At the time of this typing, the F share stood at $12.34. It has been on a continual slide for, seemingly, no apparent reason. To be fair to Ford, they can’t impress the markets, no matter what they do. When they announced their $2.1 billion profits for Q1 of 2010, their share price fell 3.2 percent (46 cents) because the profits were “unsustainable“. What do the markets want? Blood?
Actually, more likely, a liposuction of Ford’s debt. In the same quarter, Ford’s debt mountain increased by $700 million to $34.3 billion. And as our B&B have mentioned many times, Ford’s debt mountain is a problem. So the question to our B&B is this: Is Ford’s momentum unsustainable (like their profits, apparently) or does Ford have a real chance at survival? With Greece’s problems likely to go global and Spain, Italy, Ireland and Portugal looking shaky, it could be the push the economy doesn’t need to set off another recession. Ford is strong in Europe, and a European recession would hit them hard. In China and India, Ford is a relative nobody. The growth there doesn’t help Ford. Looks like the smart money sold on the news.
Everyone is ignoring the improved US economy, Ford’s product pipeline that promises better margins through higher transaction prices and lower R&D costs, and the VEBA savings that are just kicking in.
The past few years Ford has been either well-managed or lucky. Or maybe both. But the carmaking industry is a killer. I don’t see Ford being worth its current stock price, let alone anything higher.
Ford recently issued 5 year bonds at 7%. That’s pretty high, and a market indicator that investors see a substantial risk. (The bonds were rated 4 steps below investment grade.) Bond holders (with a generally longer view than share holders) see a less-than-rosey future I would say.
Haa! Great analogy with Fields. Is this the longest he has been in any position at Ford? It seemed at about 18 months to 2 years and he was on to “bigger and better things” – in the car industry that is not enough time to develop a program from scratch, so likely he took over someone else’s work, did some stuff, then left it for others to worry about. I am generally suspicious of these high level folks, as the people in the cubicles actually get real work done.
Ford can’t let up for one minute, it is that simple. I still think they have too many CUVs – the Escape is ancient with horrible seats for example. You would think Ford would have just bought millions of Volvo seats and be done with it. Call up Lear, they will answer the phone.
Bertel:
I appreciate your honesty; I was going to ask at the outset what your problem with Ford is, but you said so right upfront.
Is Ford sustainable? That’s the $64,000 question. They look great, comparatively, in North America because GM and Chrysler don’t and Toyota is experiencing a seemingly unending bout of egg on face.
Product and market conditions are everything. Product is controllable and Ford’s now isn’t bad, especially comparatively. As for the long haul, they’ll need to keep up the successes something that the Detroit Three (and your beloved VW for that matter) have had trouble doing. They all have successes but they don’t seem to be consistent over the long term.
As for market conditions, go figure. The old paradigms seem to be gone and our certainty for the future is “overarching uncertainty”; there’s no good way to read the tea leaves.
I agree that their current debt (12/31/2009) at $201,000,000 is extreme and they need to get it paid down. They’re sitting on $21,400,000 in cash equivelents which is OK for a short, sorta serious setback (Europe?) but it would make me nervous if I were their banker.
It’s Cammy.
I have no beef with Ford. I hereby disclose that I disregarded the climate and drove a Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer while I lived in the U.S.
Yes, I have sinned …
Ford’s debt alone is creating 2-4 billion dollars a year of negative cash flow, depending on how much it costs them to finance it. With the current recession looking to be heading for it’s second dip, things do not look sustainable for Ford. The question is whether the gov’t will have the stomach for another bailout in a year or two.
The stock rating services pretty much say the same thing. Ford does not have enough cash. “AVOID”
To get to the next level and avoid excessive costs over the long term, Ford should consider taking the risk of negotiating lower costs with the UAW.
This might be better done in a few years when GM and Chrysler are even weaker.
Ford could seek to lower labor costs and if the UAW balks, begin transitioning US based factories to southern states.
Sure, a UAW strike could kill Ford if they attempt this but think of the long term structural cost savings if they can pull it off.
I don’t know what to make of the entire story.
Admittedly, you’re a journalist, which to me is short for: a person who went to college to change the world into what they would like to see.
As an example, you imply that your title/profession endows you with some official professional impartiality.
Nobody in their adult media aware mind would suggest the journalist is professionally impartial.
OK. So now we know you’re not unbiased.
But are you then an economic expert?
Are you a journalist trained or practiced in the markets?
This would be nice to know before getting emotionally involved in the story.
But what’s up with the anti Ford remark?
Name the auto manufacturer that does build cars that overwhelm you.
For me, it’s difficult.
All build a few great cars, lots of OK cars and quite a few weaker cars.
There is no outstanding car manufacturer today that does it all…not even close.
Living here in the Ozark hills, I see an entire culture that needs and drives vehicles that work in this strange world.
These are poor, working class people that can’t afford the Euro precision machines…because they are not precise and require high maintenance.
However, there are no dealers for which to get these repairs.
OK.
Ford may be in high risk money game right now…but it seems to me, the entire auto world is a here today, government bailout tomorrow.
If I remember correctly Cammy is particularly fond of Jaguar and to a lesser extent Toyota. My impression of the anti-Ford stance is that in Britain (Ms. Corrigan’s homeland AFAIK) Ford has been the darling brand, or at least, sales leader, for decades. Similar to Toyota in the US, people find it difficult to like the big guy as much as the underdog.
Your argument looks less convincing on a standard arithmetic graph.
Four years ago, Ford was on MUCH shakier ground. Let’s not forget that F was on the dollar menu in late ’08, and folks who invested then have done exceptionally well.
Ford is well positioned for future success in North America. There’s a certain value in last-man-standing over here; Ford has also become the primary choice for Americans (outside Detroit) who buy cars based on political rather than economic factors.
Ford’s problem is the same problem that the entire economic system has right now: excessive debt load. Ford has great product right now, has streamlined operations, has a decent message and consumers are in a replacement cycle right now (note I did not say “buying mood”, but they’re replacing vehicles as needed), but they’ve got a massive debt overhang to deal with.
Unfortunately, they’re hobbled by the fact that they haven’t gone through a corporate bankruptcy to reduce or eliminate those debts like GM has been able to do. Ford’ debt burden is going to weigh on it until it does so.
The exact same should be said for our financial institutions, local and state governments and many households as well. The amount of debt being carried on these balance sheets is extraordinary and I believe we are at the mathematical carry limit.
Until debt is paid down or eliminated, we’re all in trouble.
Ford paid off about $3bn of that debt in April (Q2) so that sould help a bit should wipe out the $700m gain in Q1 and then some.
They’ve plenty of (borrowed) cash in reserve.
They’ve strong products on the showroom floor and in the pipeline.
They’ve dumped anchor brands like Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo.
If they can make any sort of profit in this economy, then they’re sustainable.
“In the same quarter, Ford’s debt mountain increased by $700 million to $34.3 billion.” According to the press release, on April 6 Ford paid down $3 billion of the drawn amount of a 2013 revolving credit facility. The reduction in automotive gross debt will be reflected on the company’s Q2 8-K.
As you are a impartial professional I am surprised you neglected to mention the 3bn they payed off in April.
@trailerTrash
You need to change your moniker to ” The insightful person who lives in the Ozarks” Very well written.
What Ford may wish to do, and what GM ought to have done, is enter bankruptcy once the economy recovers but before it’s competition starts firing on all cylinders.
The company has some worth and decent forward momentum; they might do well out of a C11, partially because they’re worth something and especially since there is now a “safety net” of a government-managed bankruptcy: GM blazed a trail, here, and the optics of letting Ford fail when you bailed out their (weaker) competitors are not good.
The question is whether or not the Ford family would allow it to happen. C11 would compromise their stake.
The sad truth is, any whiff of a government-controlled bankruptcy/bailout for Ford would burst the bubble now holding up its sales. While those terms aren’t the same thing, both are linked in the minds of many Americans, thanks to the travails of GM and Chrysler.
Ford is as strong as it today thanks to overwhelming consumer disgust with the concept of Government Motors. Thankfully, the company has the products to hold those customers once they’re drawn in to the showroom, and that may just (hopefully) be enough to win the day.
Should Ford have to go down the Chapter 11 road as well, that goodwill is gone… and Ford will be relegated to once again clawing its way up a very steep hill, fighting for customers on more-or-less equal ground to its Detroit-branded competitors.
“The question is whether or not the Ford family would allow it to happen. C11 would compromise their stake.”
That, actually, is the only relevant issue. In other words, it will never happen.
I remember years ago when I was flying nearly 90K miles on United.
At the time, I was BEGGING them to declare bankruptcy.
It seemed the ONLY way to stop all the madness from the eighties and nineties.
Salaries and bonuses and contracts had begun to strangle the company.
People warned that this would end the airlines…it did not.
Although the United is not out of the hospital room, at least it’s out of critical care.
I think you are right, but right now they seems to be looking at new designs to stay alive.
The problem is there’s not a lot of profit in small cars, which Ford seems really going strong in.
Maybe to many SUVs with the new Explorer as well…but then again, that’s where the profit is.
Personally, I wish the Taurus was left the 500, but beefed up, and the SHO was an AWD Fusion, making it more affordable and less MKS.
The MKS was better left alone, not a kicked up Taurus.
Ford is as strong as it today thanks to overwhelming consumer disgust with the concept of Government Motors.
I don’t think that’s the case. Ford is getting sales because they’re making decent, competitive and reliable product. That they have entries at or near the top of both the Reliability and Performance rankings in Consumer Reports—and have since 2005—has more to do with their success than antipathy towards government involvement.
GM, by contrast, still does not have consistent, competitive product. Chrysler has nothing. Even if they were moving under their own power, they still have nothing worth buying.
Should Ford have to go down the Chapter 11 road as well, that goodwill is gone
I agree, but I don’t know if goodwill is quite the word. It’s more an issue of trust or faith: should I buy product from a company that’s in bankruptcy protection? I think GM has done everyone favour and made that less of a psychological barrier then it used to be.
The danger would be if Ford got stuck in C11 for a long time. The GM and Chrysler bankruptcies worked because the government helped experdite them. Ford could not afford to linger: that would be the kiss of death.
I agree with Rob Finfrock on this one.
There is an undisputable backlash in the United States against the recent bailouts of banks, auto companies, and the like.
GM and Chrysler got their manna from Washington at about the time this was “piquing”, and are certainly seeing their sales suffer for it.
Ford is about as well positioned as they could be for survival.
The factors they can control like product both current and soon available are in their favor as is their proven quality.
Obviously they can’t control the economy so they like every other auto manufacturer are at its mercy. Although their debt is very large I think it is sustainable baring another complete economic meltdown which I don’t foresee happening. A large dip perhaps but I don’t think another worldwide meltdown is eminent.
In respect to their stock price and bond issue, the stock has performed very well over the last 18 months and the bond issue understandably had to be at less than a premium rate. Although 7% is high the fact that the bond issue was successful is a true indication of how the market views longer term Ford sustainability.
Is Ford on shaky ground? Yes. Are they moving in the right direction? Yes.
BTW GM is on jello and Chrysler is on quicksand. The US auto industry is fighting for its life. Period.
This post sums it up best.
The reality is that Ford’s survival might just depend on GM’s and/or Chrysler’s failure.
With Chrysler now in palliative care, and GM still in the intensive care ward… Ford’s future is looking good, but still to risky to buy shares IMO.
Keeping in mind that Ford common stock does not currently pay dividends IMO the only reason to trade it is short term gain. Since just the beginning of this year I have profited 9+% trading Ford common shares buying it four times and selling it three so far. It’s really a no brainer to profit on short term trading of Ford common stock right now.
Ford’s not alone in the slide. Since April 26 the Dow has been on a downward trend. Take a look at Honda, Nissan, Daimler, etc. since that date and see what the trend has been. On March 17 Ford was in the low 14’s and by April 8 it had dropped almost 2 dollars but it came back and it will come back again. Constantly reminding everyone of Ford’s debt hasn’t held the price down so far so why keep bringing it up?
Ford is as shaky as the US. As the Euro melts down, the European auto market is going to shrink. So Europe isn’t going to help. As the Euro’s meltdown hits the US, the American auto market is going to only increase slightly from it’s 2009 low. So Ford’s debt is going to be with them for a long time at the rate the global economy is stagnating.
What Ford has to do is survive the weaker competitors. It’s 2010 success has been achieved partly due to consumers turning from GM and Chrysler. As the weak global economy shakes out other Ford competitors, what Ford has to do is survive by providing the kind of products they have launched over the past two years.
It will be very close.
We are used to market correcting themselves quickly, but with governmental interferences, this won’t happen. With each socialist government jumping in to divvy up what they consider fair and benefiticial to their political power, they will supress the market’s natural ability to recover. With Obama in the White House and the Democrats in power, we are seeing every attempt to jump into every market issue in order to take advantage of it and do what they consider good work. All this will make this sour economy stretch on for perhaps, years.
We are used to market correcting themselves quickly, but with governmental interferences, this won’t happen
Markets don’t necessarily correct themselves quickly, and they certainly don’t do it without pain.
Government is more or less forced to run interference for the market because there is a very real social human cost to “just letting things fail and sort themselves out”. So GM, Chrysler or a few banks go under, so people stop spending, so we let the economy lock up and/or go into tailspin. How long until it corrects itself? How painful (and I mean physical and social pain, not just economic trouble) will that correction period be?
Having legions of pissed-off poor people with nowhere to turn, by the way, has never worked out well, and even the most right-wing economists (and by that I mean real economists and not ideologue pretenders) get cold feet at the idea of catastrophic shocks to an economy, if for no other reason than the end-result might be real socialists being elected into office
And last I checked, government was responsible to and for the people, at least in theory. That includes not throwing whole segments of society under the proverbial bus.
** as opposed to the Big Bad Democratic Party.
Psar, I’ve heard of a dangling participle, but never a dangling asterisk.
@86er:
:P::
Saky ground sure. But better than GM and Chrysler is impossible to say for now. W/ the American economy growing they should be able to muddle through.
Down here, even though they are profitable, they can’t for the life of them increase market share. While the Focus (Euro one here) is the best in its segment the market basically ignores it. Their Fiesta (old one) and Ka are also-rans in the compact segment, which is 50% of the market down here or almost 75% if you consider their compact sedans, station wagons and pickups versions that are derived from the hatches. They need a better engines and to reduce initial prices and price of maintenance if they are serious about competing. They keep advertising their cheapness to maintain as the market doesn’t believe in their claims. And they need to use less gas! Get that Ford? Less consumption and more power from your weak 1.0 pls or the market will continue to turn its back on you.
At individual levels the economy may be doing fine but delve into long-term trends and how productivity gains did not benefit the masses at the bottom and how average wages for many average folks have been at a negative level and so many other trends and economic indicators are proof that a sizable percentage of the USA workforce is being hammered relentlessly and, if the observer will remove personal blinders and shed the relentless brainwashing intended to maintain the status quo and continuously delude the masses about some fictional non-defined “American Dream” and perhaps, then, Warren Buffet’s mostly ignored utterance will make sense:
“There’s class warfare, all right, Mr. (Warren) Buffett said, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”
Scoff me if you wish but the fed’s own data and my and many others’ life experiences lead to but one conclusion, while admitting that individual exceptions against the norm exist, perhaps your own, but your exception does not equate with a norm.
I may be interpreted as a prophet of gloom and doom but many tyrants and their lackeys and those who opted for self-delusion appear to have been surprised when the society around them collapsed and their delusions proved to be unable to support reality.
You heard it here, folks. The Disgruntled Old Coot, prognosticator nonpareil, is warning you of rough tough times ahead many of you are likely unprepared to survive.
Of course, IF extreme measures are taken the apparent inevitable future MAY be diverted but the entrenched power structures are too welded to their beloved status quo.
But I am an Old Coot. Likely not a lot of life left in this old carcass, the old hulk.
Maybe the worst to come will be outside your life-time.
But will your kids, grandkids, their kids be cursing your name for not making the needed alterations now to quell the ongoing class war?
For those few with safety and security of several types, especially those ensconced within their safe and secure suburbs and gated communities the incoming tidal wave of resentment and anger may suddenly engulf you.
Sadly, the truly wealthy and powerful, the 5 percent or so where the national wealth continuously funnels upwards to plop pleasingly in the laps of those “deserving” of the largess, will have the ways and means of easy escape into the laps of their elite brethren in foreign lands.
Will you?
This is the same situation I was in with Nissan, around the time they had FX, G, M, Altima, and the upcoming GT-R, bought their stocks and all at ~$24. The stocks never went up and then the recession hit -__-. I just ended up telling myself, “long term investment”. I believe in Ghosn, and his ability to turn Nissan around from the brink of death in the 90s is a testament to his leadership. He got the balls to bet big (EV) and risk takers will either make it big or die trying. Kind of like how Honda and Toyota are taking risks with their hybrid technology. With all the people whining about Toyota’s hybrid and what not, they’ve made money with the technology through licensing and they have sold the tech to Ford.
Ford… only time will tell. Their models are nice looking but rival models beat them in my opinion. The Ford Fiesta is really nice/cute looking but the Fit have more practical space & room (they’re both competing cars right?). Modeno is nice looking too but I wouldn’t buy it. SHO is a maybe it a sweet looking car and the engine is nice. I would get a Camaro over a Mustang. Maybe I’m just bias. At least they’re finally investing in technologies for their engines. Their V6 was laughable compare to the VQ.
I think you’ll find that share prices of a lot of companies have taken a hit in the last couple of weeks as investors try and get where they think is safe (in this case the US dollar). Thats down to whats going on in Greece, Portugal etc…
I agree Ford’s debt mountain is quite a ‘hump’ for them to climb and is worrying, but if they can stay profitable through these turbulent times, which they’ve already proved they can do – they’ve got a good chance.
Just for my information, can anyone break down Ford sales in Europe, showing number of cars sold in places like Germany, France and the UK compared to the ‘PIIGS’?
As far as business model goes, making cars is a risky business and the fortunes of even the bigger major players are fickle at best. Ford does have some debt but they are no worse off than everyone else but I wouldn’t put any car maker in my portfolio today.
@chainyanker: +1. The whole market has been going down. I don’t think there’s much to underscore at F viz that.
Besides, is George Soros still in it? I know he got in post-C4C at about 6.
.
Ford still looks great b/c of the other 2 screwups, and that may hold for a little while.
But they’ve either got to get the TCO for the UAW people down, or do everything they can to progressively journal out of the guys who won’t work for fair market rate, to lower their costs.
-> Against the Japanese + Hyundai, and possibly more imports from India and then Big China, their chance of competing will slowly erode into nothing.
Maybe the non-bankruptcy stance of the Ford family will end up turning into a deathclutch, keeping the company from jettisoning the entire UAW with the C11 it really should be doing, thus killing it; in partnership with the over(staffed+compensated) bolt-tighteners.
.
…No idea if the F family can afford to just completely sell out their share of the company.
Designs that aren’t fugly wouldn’t hurt either.
I’m glad you wrote the article. Investing in US auto manufacturers is like pouring money into airlines stocks. It will never beat S&P in the long run. I am willing to buy and sell for trading purposes but I will never own it for the long haul.
On 4/26/2010 Ford’s share prices hit a high of $14.46, as if it was the heydays of 2003/2004. It was downhill from there. At the time of this typing, the F share stood at $12.34. It has been on a continual slide for, seemingly, no apparent reason.
—
Well, obviously you are not following the stock market. You shouldn’t really write in an area you don’t follow.
F’s decline is clearly due to the bond market turmoil caused by Greece. Similar decline patterns can be seen in a lot of other stocks that depend heavily on financing costs, such as FRE/FNM, LVS, etc.
Ford products are mediocre.
Their business plan is elementary.
Their debt is out of control.
Sales of their new appliances are nothing to write home about.
And their stock is tanking (down almost 10% just today…as of 1:42PM my time)
If Ford was on shaky ground…it would be a better position than where they actually are.
I don’t know why I bother but here goes…
@ Silvy
Ford products are mediocre. – Compared to what?
Their business plan is elementary. – Compared to GM’s plan which is?
Their debt is out of control. – It’s not out of control and at least it’s private debt and not money owed to the US taxpayer.
Sales of their new appliances are nothing to write home about. – And the Aveo is what? A Fiesta killer?
And their stock is tanking (down almost 10% just today…as of 1:42PM my time) – Actually more like 6% right now, however the whole of the Dow Jones Industrial average is down 4-5% so far today, so nothing unusual.
Time to come out from under your bridge Silvy.
1. Compared to anything else in the class. Ford loves to tout quality and reliability figures that they opay for…but the fact of the matter is that the Accord and Camry still handily outsell it, they make more money doing so, and even the Sonata is giving the Fusion a run for it’s money. There is a reason the 2010 Fusion was LAST place in a recent compare of EIGHT family sedans. Add to that the major issues Ford is having with the 4-cyl transmission, questionable interior materials (across their whole line of appliances), and, yes, lackluster sales of the re-skinned products (excluding heavy fleet dumping) and it’s clear that it’s the same old Ford Motor Company that we had 10 years ago. Hell, the Flex was expected to sell 100K units a year…and it hasn’t sold 100K units since it went on sale in 2008. The ancient Cobalt is barely outsold by the terrible Focus, the Impala handily outsells the mediocre, “Camry-like” Taurus, etc.
2. GM repaid their loans and is not paying more than 1 BILLION a year in interest. And the amount of money Ford has spent re-skinning their mediocre products into slightly fresh looking mediocre products has been substantial…and I don’t believe for a second that Ford is making a dime on the new appliances. Even if Ford’s lies were true…you cannot add content and gimmicks, increase quality, and have lower sales…and still make money. And let’s not forget the 4+ BILLION dollar hit Ford took when they dumped Volvo…
3. Who mentioned the Aveo? That is another cheap, undesirable, unsafe shoebox just like the Fiesta. And the corners that Ford cut with the Fiesta is glaring. No projector headlights, fog lights that consist of a glow stick and some tin foil behind it, the horrid three-bar grille, interior materials and ergonomics, and the outrageous price. The Fit is still a FAR better car.
Time to step into reality…unless this (non-existent) economic recovery goes off without a single hitch (like today…oops) Ford is still riding on top of a very delicate bubble that can burst at any time. Ford is not in a good position at all…despite what their corporate PR Spin Machine spews out as facts.
Silvy, it’s not so much what you said that amuses me, as much as the fact it took you 393 words to say it. That’s classic.
(And I read them all… which makes me the greater fool, I suppose.)
Anyway, I think it gives you too much credit to imply, even jokingly, you are in fact Rick Wagoner posting in disguise.
Does anyone here know if Docherty drives a Silverado?
Folks, Please don’t feed the troll (Z71_Silvy / P71_Crown Vic / Rick Wagoner).
+1
Can’t handle the truth???
I rather be hated for telling the truth than loved for telling a lie…
Thanks!
Just as I was about to start pounding the keys, I read your warning request.
I have now calmed down and realized the trap.
Damn! It’s so easy to pull my chain!
While some of your criticisms of Ford are valid, you fail to appear objective because you only criticize Ford. You also only praise GM. The Impala is a fleet queen, and the Fusion sells the retail (with some fleet, I give you that). GM didn’t pay back all the taxpayer money we gave them. Ford survived without getting a bailout like GM and Chrysler. Can you honestly say that the Aveo and its GMC and Buick rebadges (which won’t be out anytime soon) will be better than the Fiesta (available in a few months)? If the Silverado is a better truck, then why does the F150 outsell it? What does GM make that competes with the SHO?
Sorry Steve-O. I’ll put away my feed bag. However ‘lively’ debate is always interesting, no matter how one sided some of the participants are.
Z71,
You said Buick has an A+++ lineup and GM’s piston slap should be considered an acceptable feature on a new truck. Your objectivity and credibility leaves much to be desired. Your half-truths come across as desperate attempts to make Ford look bad and just plain old sour grapes.
Must be hard for a GM apologist to accept how well Ford is doing.
Yes…Buick does have a great lineup. The Enclave outsells the Flex and MKT handily (which is odd considering the Buick is the highest luxury model of the Lambdas…you would think the blue-collar Flex would wipe the floor with the Enclave). The new Lacrosse is a proper entry level luxury car that is not priced out of it’s market (like the Lincoln Taurus). The new Regal will continue that trend as will the Aveo based CUV.
And I wouldn’t compare piston slap…which is nothing more than an unfortunate noise at startup and nothing more to spark plugs shooting out of the head, unintended acceleration (Ford’s do that A LOT too…), late model F-150’s having their airbags go off for no reason and Ford that, when they feel like it, burst into flames.
You can’t drive your Ford WHEN those things happen…but you can drive your GM small block many hundreds of thousands of miles with piston slap.
And I may be slightly biased towards GM as I have owned two Fords and two GM products and BOTH of the Fords have left me stranded. The GMs have not…but if Ford ever comes out with a vehicle that is not cheap/mediocre like their current line up here in the states, I will give them all of the credit in the world.
And Ford stock was down over 2.25% today…
At last some explanation for your Ford hate. While your experiences with Ford are unfortunate it’s not an indication of the quality of the whole brand. And every single reliability survey has indicated that Ford has made big strides in reliability, while GM remains spotty in places. No, Ford isn’t perfect, but they’ve made immense progress in the last two years alone and completely dismissing that like you have just looks silly.
So the Flex isn’t a success. That’s one model out of a huge lineup. Ford’s overall sales are increasing well ahead of market growth and they’ve increased market share. Unlike GM. Ford has posted a $2+ billion profit in the last quarter. Unlike GM.
Plus, if product like the new Fiesta and Focus is mediocre by your standards, what on earth isn’t? And please don’t say the Cruze, because there’s no way that car, which has only gotten middling-to-lukewarm reviews, will be better than the German-engineered Focus Mk3, an updated version of a car that has been critically acclaimed in every market it’s sold in.
“No, Ford isn’t perfect, but they’ve made immense progress in the last two years alone and completely dismissing that like you have just looks silly.”
Ford paid for studies are about as believable as the flat Earth-ers…
The Fusion has cheap interior materials…as does the Taurus, the trucks, SUVs, etc.
“Plus, if product like the new Fiesta and Focus is mediocre by your standards, what on earth isn’t?”
You can’t use those bland shoeboxes as a benchmark…use something with some potential of being a nice car (not a Ford).
And not that it’s any of your business…but cars with mediocre engines, drivetrains, interiors and outrageous prices are mediocre in my book. When I buy a vehicle, this is what I look for (in no particular order):
Reliability
Durability
Engine choices (V8 or larger preferred)
Drivetrain choices (RWD preferred…no FWD or FWD-based AWD crap)
Styling
Interior materials
Innovative features (non silly electronic gimmicks like park assist)
Overall egronomics
Now…a vehicle does not have to excel in all of those areas for me to like it…but if it’s not V8 or RWD…it’s probably a no-go. I do make a few exceptions.
So…take the mediocre new Taurus. It has bland styling that’s clearly inspired by the Camry, a limp-wristed, fuel guzzling V6, and a FWD-based AWD system. Add to that the questionable interior materials, inevitable increase in maintenance and repair costs and you have one porky, bland mediocre sedan.
I can only imagine how much better the Taurus SHO(W) if it was a proper V8 (5.0), proper RWD, had proper styling and a proper interior…Oh wait…Ford already makes that car…the FALCON…
I can only imagine how much better the Taurus SHO(W) if it was a proper V8 (5.0), proper RWD, had proper styling and a proper interior…Oh wait…Ford already makes that car…the FALCON…
A RWD V8 sedan called Falcon, Galaxie, Marauder, or something like that would be great, but I don’t think that is what a SHO should be.
The “SHO” label should go to a compact-to-midsize FWD/AWD car with a manual transmission and a high-revving I4 or V6.
Other than the high weight, the upcoming Buick Regal is a lot closer to what I’d want out of a SHO, especially compared to the current turbo’d car or a hypothetical V8 sports sedan.
“Ford paid for studies are about as believable as the flat Earth-ers…”
Show me empirical evidence that Ford paid off Consumer Reports to rate the Fusion higher in reliability than the Accord, Camry or Malibu and I might be inclined to believe you.
But, let’s say for the moment that Ford paid off all those dozens of studies to show that they’re improving. How, then, do you explain their improved sales and considerably improved balance sheet?
“The Fusion has cheap interior materials…as does the Taurus, the trucks, SUVs, etc.”
The Fusion’s interior isn’t any cheaper than the Malibu’s…and the Taurus’ cabin is sure as hell nicer than the fleet-queen Impala.
“You can’t use those bland shoeboxes as a benchmark…use something with some potential of being a nice car (not a Ford).”
So, what you’re saying is, as soon as a car wears a Ford badge, no matter how good it is, it’s no longer a “nice car”? What if the Cruze, which you’ve been on record as praising, were through some insane turn of affairs rebadged as a Ford but were otherwise completely unchanged, would it then suddenly be a “mediocre appliance”?
“Now…a vehicle does not have to excel in all of those areas for me to like it…but if it’s not V8 or RWD…it’s probably a no-go. I do make a few exceptions.”
Fair enough that you have your own tastes (I like RWD and V8s too), but that layout is only appropriate for a select group of vehicles. Large sedans, SUVs, trucks – sure, small cars like the Fiesta or Cruze…uh, no.
“I can only imagine how much better the Taurus SHO(W) if it was a proper V8 (5.0), proper RWD, had proper styling and a proper interior…Oh wait…Ford already makes that car…the FALCON…”
I’d like it if Ford sold the Falcon in the US as well. But that’s only one car and I like many of the other vehicles Ford makes (Fiesta, Fusion, Flex, F-150, yes even the Taurus). It appears to me that you’re using a personal experience and a strong disagreement about ONE car to color your views about an entire company. Dismissing cars like the Fiesta or Mk3 Focus (which, by the way, is still 9 months from even being tested by journalists) just because Ford didn’t bring the Falcon over – a completely unrelated issue – is a logically unstable mindset at best.
“And I wouldn’t compare piston slap…which is nothing more than an unfortunate noise at startup and nothing more to spark plugs shooting out of the head”
I wasn’t comparing the two, I don’t own a Ford truck so this is of no concern to me (IMHO an OHC engine has no place in a truck). Is this comparison supposed to make a GM truck owner feel better? If so it’s some very sorry rationale. The impact of a piston against the cylinder wall over time isn’t good for an engine and at trade-in time. Again, you find this acceptable while I don’t.
I find it funny you think Ford has bland mediocre vehicles but still insist Buick has a great lineup. I find nothing remotely appealing about the stuff Buick is currently selling. Hell, even my salesman at the local Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealer says the same thing. The new Lacrosse looks as odd as the new Taurus, the Pep Boys vents on the hood don’t help. I have no use for anything front drive let alone bland/boring. Don’t know how anyone could find an Aveo-based ANYTHING appealing.
Despite the recent pullback, Ford Motor Company has a market capitalization greater than Volkswagen or Nissan. Toyota, Daimler, and Honda have greater capitalizations than Ford, however. High market capitalization provides access to additional sources of funds that can mitigate bankruptcy risk.
Bond yields, debt ratings, and credit default swap prices are better predictors of bankruptcy risk than stock prices. These have been steadily improving for Ford.
Despite what one commenter implied, Ford’s biggest threat is not the survival of arch-competitors GM and Chrysler. Just the opposite, Ford’s biggest threat is the failure and liquidation of these companies, which could bring down suppliers and Ford with it.
My views are my own and not those my Dearborn OEM employer.
I find Z71 refreshing and he’s a nice change from the typical GM haters/bashers who post on TTAC. Although I don’t have it out for Ford like he does.
Soldier on…..LOL