Right now, the [Volt’s] propulsion system is too expensive, even with using an existing engine… We have a strategy to go rotary engines or a two-cylinder [gas] engine making 15-18 kW. I have driven the car already. Rotary has a higher fuel consumption but here’s the advantage [holds up his hands to form round, frisbee-sized shape] — packaging.
GM’s Karl Stracke talks Volt 2.0 with InsideLine, and yet never quite explains why a less fuel-efficient rotary generator would even be on the table. Or how a rotary (let alone the also-mooted diesel generator) would be the solution to high drivetrain costs. How much room does the (implicity and reputationally) more-efficient two-cylinder really take up? Wasn’t the only mass-market rotary-powered car left in the wild, the Mazda RX-8, just canceled for flunking European emissions standards? Can’t the rotary engine die with a little dignity?
Common decency demands that this flagrant of fanbaiting be reserved at least until the first-gen Volt hits the streets.
I think that the rotary story is just a decoy.
They’re actually developing a 1 cylinder gunpowder and corn syrup motor for the Volt that will generate enough power to run an electric razor in addition to its primary purpose of powering a cell-phone/ipod charger.
Here’s my theory.
A rotary is very small and very light. The room saved using a rotary could be devoted to more batteries. Or you could just enjoy the weight savings, which will result in better electric range.
The rotary engine never found its way into a Corvette, and GM is bound and determined to put it into something. This is a last ditch effort.
This whole story sounds very odd. At this late stage in the development of the Volt Karl Stracke says that there is no engine for this vehicle? And one of the solutions is a rotary, more dirty and thirsty, which defies the whole purpose of a hybrid? Not to talk about the price of a rotary engine.
Either we are missing a part of the story or something is going really wrong in there.
Stracke was talking about possible second-generation Volt powertrains, so it’s not all that late in the development per se. Still a head-scratcher though.
Second-generation Volt: sounds much better.
If GM goes for the rotary engine it must be a top notch engine. For too many people GM and a new engine brings memories of Olds Delta 88, the Diesel of which traumatized at least a couple of generations of Americans so that, even today, many stay away from this kind of engines.
Would also be good if the second-generation Volt, being a hybrid with a different packaging under the hood, were able to move the front axle forward to eliminate the excessive front overhang, inherited from a fwd platform. The new pedestrian-crash regulations, moving the hood higher, make the long overhang look even more heavy and unattractive, as the picture of the Ampera, in one of TTAC’s posts 2-3 days ago, shows.
Could it be that with the low powered engines that the efficiency doesn’t change that much? 15-18 kW is 20-24 hp. If the 15-18 kW number is correct, which I am not sure that it is, that should be the big story. A second generation Volt is using a much smaller ICE to keep the car moving.
But, I think when you are talking about the 20-24 hp range for engines, I don’t know how much less efficient the rotary would be than the 2 cylinder, or the diesel.
I read the article, and it surely says 15-18 kW, that small an engine, that sounds like some serious changes on the Volt.
I figured manufacturing cost was the big reason to go rotary. Isn’t it a whole lot cheaper to make than a piston engine?
Nice ’80s New Wave reference, BTW. Dead or Alive, no less. Fitting on so many levels.
srogers
srogers
May 27th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
I think that the rotary story is just a decoy.
They’re actually developing a 1 cylinder gunpowder and corn syrup motor for the Volt that will generate enough power to run an electric razor in addition to its primary purpose of powering a cell-phone/ipod charger.
I think the Mythbusters are getting a GM subsidy to blow up… I mean, test the new engines…
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Rotaries can be economical (and eco-friendly) if they’re only tuned for a tiny operational rpm range, which is what most generator motors are tuned for. But the big benefit is that they’re small, light… and… errh… small. That makes them perfect for packaging with an electric drivetrain with its attendant huge battery pack.
The actual efficiency of the Volt has never been demonstrated publicly, but its highway MPG will likely be in the 30s.
GM is either determined to kill the Volt, or receive more government funding to develop this as an ‘alternative propulsion’ system.
At least the Leaf isn’t surrounded by such discussions. This is like reading Popular Mechanics, ca. 1974, re: flying cars, a rotary in every garage, and 100 mpg carburetors.
Agreed, I think GM is expecting the VOLT to flop like the rest of us do.
Sorry, 40 grand (before those pesky added dealer markups) for an unproven car with unproven technology, a zero track record for reliability, quality and dependibility (outside of GM’s so called “testing”) coming from a company not known for these qualities (NPI) right out of the gate. Oh well, like the 3800, the HFV6, the Northstar and other countless new engines from Government Motors, 10 years down the road and multiple revisions later, maybe it will be end up finally being reliable as well. Or it could pull an 8-6-4 and disappear into the history books.
How any guinnae pigs will actually chance 40 large on nothing more than a Cobalt rental car with a battery when you could by a entry-level luxury car? A 3 series, Infiniti G37, Audi etc.
Or if you still want green with your luxury, Lexus will sell you a decked out HS250 hybrid for the same greenbacks (less if we count the ADM) as the econobox Volt.
Or we could pocket the 20 grand, buy a Prius that has been around the block for 14 years, with millions of copies still on the roads, and has a proven track record of good reliability and quality. 20 grand buys one hell of a vacation or a nice little nest egg towards other things.
Good luck guys. You’re gonna need it.
Your right Garbage, how dare GM try something new. Never mind the fact that GM has been moving in the right direction as far as product quality in the last 5 years. Sure, they still have a long way to go, but how can you criticize a company for trying something new. The batteries are the real meat of what is being developed. This development could be adapted easily for a Prius like hybrid, more EVs, or something more like the Volt.
Flailing. Searching for a miracle cure for their miracle cure car.
Reeks of desperation to me.
How many months ago was it that the Volt project manager Bob Kruze resigned?
With 31 years he resigned – vs. retired. That tells you everything you need to know.
This doesn’t mean that there won’t be a Volt, but it strongly suggests that it won’t be ready for prime time.
“Sure, they still have a long way to go, but how can you criticize a company for trying something new.”
Telling, that you took a question and made it a declarative.
I’m as liberal as they come, but those guys have our tax money.
Try something new. That’s rich.
Last night I was having some pints on the patio of my neighborhood bar. A peculiar, old-looking Toyota sedan with a hood-bra and a spoiler drove up. My friend asked if that was an old Yaris or something. Nope. 2nd Gen Prius.
That ‘try something new’ is a 40-large piece of vaporware; down a path that was worn down 15 years ago by an innovative company, and nearly 20 years after the Clinton administration threw a bunch of our tax money at these boobs for the express purpose of developing a car like the Volt.
I would be willing to bet good money that that beat-up ’01 or ’02 Prius will be on the road longer than half the first year fleet of Volts. If there is a first year fleet of volts.
Cimarron. Avalanch. H2. Aztek. Our taxes.
You’ll pardon some of us if we’re skeptical and scornful of this companies product announcements.
Is it bad I would have been a lot happier with GM simply licensing toyotas tech or simply copying the prius just so there is something directly comparable in the market at a lower(chevy) price point?
They have had how long to develop this car? its now summer of 2010 and the marketing of it has been going on for nearly 3 years. the only thing this car has done is employ engineers and secure govt loans and taxpayer funds.
I’ll take a second generation prius any day, and for under 12k now, Every potential volt buyer will surely look at this possibility. Or just buy the leaf.
In the case of the Volt, where it just needs a motor to generate electricity to charge batteries (or maintain current), a rotary engine would be very efficient and clean. The problem with the rotary engine in the RX-7/RX-8 application is the lack of torque. Most of the inefficiency of the in powertrain is during acceleration and deceleration. At constant velocity, a rotary engine should be highly efficient. More so than moving reciprocating pistons.
I think a rotary or small turbine would be better for the Volt than a 4 cylinder motor. But I doubt GM has the money or time to do the research and development into this theory.