Poetry, Wordsworth told us right before he and that dope fiend Coleridge pissed all over English literature with the freakin’ Lyrical Ballads, is “emotion recollected in tranquility.” By “emotion”, he meant having a nice walk in the Lake District, and by “tranquility”, he meant the sweet, sweet song of opium. Hate that guy and his wack-ass aversion to meter. You want to read some real literature, I recommend Pope’s Epistle To Dr. Arbuthnot. But I digress.
While Acura struggles with its current beaky big rig, reviewed by Mr. Karesh yesterday, I thought I would recall some emotion in tranquility and detail my drive of the 1998 Acura 2.5TL. Truth be told, though, there wasn’t much emotion involved. Perhaps this is tranquility, recollected in tranquility. Never mind.
It is a five cylinder Acura,
And it cost about twenty-five G.
“By thy frameless windows and generic grille,
Now wherefore stopp’st thou me?
I am in the market for a Passat,
Or an Acura CL, a 2.3.
But the salesman hath insisted
I shall spend some time with thee.
A faux-hardtop like the ES 250,
a long-wheelbase Accord’s what you are.
If Acura wants to establish identity,
They’ll need a better car.
The engine’s turned north-to-south,
How Honda loved complexity.
No particular reason for it,
Other than uniquity.
Ugh. I don’t see how Coleridge did it. I don’t see how Acura did it either. We’ve discussed previously how Japanese customers loved the faux-hardtop look for their upmarket sedans. While Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi were content to simply cut out the door frames and fuss with the endcaps to create their yuppie-oriented cars, Honda decided that a really nice FWD sedan should also have a longitudinally-mounted engine. The resulting cars were called the “Accord Inspire” and “Accord Vigor”. The Vigor became the third member of Acura’s lineup in 1992, where it received a reception somewhere between “uncaring” and “actively disdainful” from the market.
The average JDM-phile will tell you that the Inspire and Vigor were in fact derived from the Acura Legend. I’m disinclined to believe it, since the interiors shared too much with the Accords of the day, and dashboard width is a tough thing to change without somebody noticing. If I had to guess, I would say that the subframes and frame horns may have been derived from that of the Legend.
Why did Honda do a longitudinal engine mount? The official reason was that the five-cylinder engine required it, and the official reason for using a five-cylinder engine was to “avoid the waste of a V6”. I don’t believe that either. I think Honda was starstruck by the fabulous “aero” C3 Audi 100 and simply decided to copy it, the same way the original Honda Civic was a product-improved copy of the Mini and the Honda/Acura NSX cribbed extensively from the Ferrari/Lotus playbook. Since the Audi had a front-to-back five-cylinder, the Inspire/Vigor/TL would have it as well.
My initial exposure to the 2.5TL came as I was shopping for Mrs. B’s next whip, yo. She liked the all-new Passat; I liked it too, but worried about maintenance expenses. After seeing a $279/month lease for the TL in the paper, we went over to drive one. For amusement’s sake, and because I had been building a notebook full of driving impressions for a few years at that time, we started with the Integra GS-R, continued with the 2.3CL five-speed, and finished with the 2.5 and 3.2 TLs.
The Integra was a delightful little car; noisy, tinny, torqueless, very Honda-esque. The 2.3CL was a real charmer and seemed worth the modest premium over the equivalent Accord coupe, if only for the short-wheelbase look and the boat-tail. The 2.5TL, on the other hand, failed to impress.
The interior was too obviously that of the Accord and 2.3CL, and it was loud inside. Thrum from the engine filled the cabin, while the doors whistled above eighty mph. Not that the TL was in any hurry to get to eighty — the engine was gutless and the transmission was both late and rough to shift. The automatic was mandatory with both TL models, and that was a mistake for Honda. If I had to make a list of “The Top Ten Things That Suck About Hondas”, No. 2 would be their sad excuses for automatic transmissions. (No. 1 would be the “Mr. Opportunity” regional-dealer ads.)
Ride and handling were a bit on the soft side, particularly compared to the CL coupe. This wasn’t a car to stir anyone’s soul; it reeked of JDM difference-for-the-sake-of-difference and days spent shopping on the Ginza strip. Most annoyingly, the car was just narrow inside, which made it feel cheaper than it was. Still, the price was right, so we agreed that we would drive the Passat and come back to make the deal.
We never returned to the Acura dealership. The Passat was a revelation compared to the Acura: fast, five-speed, spacious, gorgeous, well-equipped, and cheaper besides. When the salesman made his follow-up call to me, I shared my observations with him. “I can’t lie,” he responded, “we can’t give these TL things away, even at $279 a month.”
I will go to my grave thinking the Accords which shared that 2.5TL platform were the best Accords in history. The 1998 Accord was a fat-assed monstrosity, but it was a much better basis for an Acura TL. The ’03 Accord was even worse, but the resulting TL was better yet. The current Accord and Acura TL are sized somewhere between a ’78 Cutlass sedan and a ’77 Cutlass coupe, and that’s too freakin’ big if you ask me. I’m pretty sure you could park a ’77 Seville behind the current TL and not see it.
Oh well. Wordsworth and Coleridge set the English poetry scene free from the straitjacket of iambic pentameter, not realizing that having some restraint in one’s poetry is more help than hindrance. Acura long ago abandoned the chic minimalism that made the Integra such a lovable car. Do you like the result?
You’re right that this was a wholly unremarkable car. I don’t think you’re right that the 1998 Accord was a monstrosity: it was a simple, clean, holistically-good car; probably the zenith of Honda’s passenger cars. Very “Bran Flakes”.
The problem is that the 2.5TL was supposed to be a luxury car, and Bran Flakes wasn’t going to cut it. It’s the problem that dogs Acura (and Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Mercury and Buick) to this day: they’re good cars, but they’re neither here nor there. Why get a 2.5TL when the Accord EX-L V6 was just as good or better?
“The problem is that the 2.5TL was supposed to be a luxury car, and Bran Flakes wasn’t going to cut it. It’s the problem that dogs Acura (and Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Mercury and Buick) to this day: they’re good cars, but they’re neither here nor there. Why get a 2.5TL when the Accord EX-L V6 was just as good or better?”
Yes that’s the problem. Taurus Limited with leather and all the options or MXS? Impala LTZ or Buick Lucerne? (obviously I’m talking about the old round eyed Lucerne.) Loaded Fusion or Milan or MXZ? I was driven to the airport (back in October) in a Flex Limited in black, with a white roof, black leather interior. As I sat comfortably in the back seat, I couldn’t fathom why anyone would pay more for the Lincoln equivalent.
Acuras (Integra/RSX aside) always struck me as real estate agent’s or financial advisor’s cars: nice enough to make people think you’re successful, not so nice as to make them think you’re ripping them off.
The 3.2TL was almost the epitome of this.
@educatordan,
I mostly agree with you on the desirability of the Flex vs. its Lincoln MKwhatever equivalent. To my eyes the Flex looks better and is almost as nicely equipped as the Lincoln for far less money. However, I do have to give Ford credit for reasonably disguishing the Lincoln from it’s Ford platform mate with that model. It looks very different inside and out, and there are actually some people who prefer the Lincoln’s baleen whale look. I’ve never driven either the Flex or the Lincoln, so I can’t comment on the difference in feel, if any, between the two. But it seems to me that with those two models Ford created a much better distinction than they have between the Fusion and MKZ, for example.
OK, I’ll come clean, I actually liked the first generation Vigor back in the early nineties. A family friend had a nice metallic red one that I used to think was the epitome of understated cool. And, since I’m being honest here, I still have a soft spot for the Vigor on the extremely rare occasions when one is spotted plying the streets today. Yet, for reasons I can’t put my finger on, the two generations of TL that preceded the Vigor never appealed to me. Actually, I can put my finger on the reasons – they were dull cars; boring to look at and boring to drive. So the real mystery is why I liked the Vigor in the first place. It was hardly exciting to look at or to drive, but there was just something about it that got to me.
I second the observation that the “Mr. Opportunity” Honda ads are terrible. I only see them when visiting my family in Western NY, but every time that stupid cartoon character knocks on the camera or TV screen (or maybe his glass cage walls?) I want to throw a brick at the set.
+1 on the original Vigor. I thought they were pretty cool, and I still admire the lines when I see the odd one around town. Then again, I also admired oddball stuff like the Infiniti Q45 / Nissan President … and Toyota Cressida wagons.
For some reason, the Vigor was HUGELY popular with Toronto’s Caribbean population.
I too was a fan of the original Acura Vigor from ’92. I loved the look of the long, low hood. I thought the interior was pretty classy, complimentary to the Audi 100 (which I thought had about the best interior in the class). I thought the Vigor had a more classic upscale look, probably due to the longitudinal engine layout like the European brands. However, I have never driven one. The Vigor was fairly rare when new, and I almost never see them now.
A ++1 from me, too. I never pass by a Vigor without giving its note-perfect lines and proportions a longing look.
My friend still drives a ’92 Vigor 5-speed with almost 200k miles and indeed, it is a pleasure both to drive and to ride in. He bought it about seven years ago through a private sale to replace his rear-ended ’87 Legend because it was cheaper than even a Civic of the same age and mileage, and the owner had a deep stack of maintenance records, including brake fluid changes every two years. A Civic would cost less in fuel, but I’m sure he has no regrets.
Is it too much to ask that you stick to the cars, Jack, instead of flexing your (very weak) cultural muscle to impress us all?
Seriously, get over yourself already.
I actually enjoyed Jack’s disquisition on Wordsworth and Coleridge, as well as his amusing little poem.
Hi dingram01,
I went in and re-approved your original comment… I think it’s a legitimate criticism and worth discussing.
“Capsule Reviews” really only have one purpose, and that is to amuse the readership, and to stimulate discussion. Oops. That’s two reasons.
For the record, when I call Wordsworth “wack”, make jokes about opium, and half-ass-parody Rime of the Ancient Mariner, I’m not really engaging in full-throttle cultural discussion. I’ve written plenty of serious papers about my personal area of academic interest, which is a subset of 18th.C authors and the critical lens applied to them by Victorian contributors. You don’t want to read that stuff, and neither does any one else. :)
Thanks, Jack, and also, my apologies. For the public record, I regret my mean-spirited original post and certainly should’ve found a better way to offer constructive criticism.
I do love reading about these cars. These particular Acuras always did make me scratch my head.
I own a 1998 acura CL 3.0, premium top trim. I bought for 800 bucks, it was in a wreck. Trunk is hard to close, so I don’t open it. the window motor on the driver side has failed, so I rigged it to be permanently closed, and the heated seats only work on the passenger seat. The transmission is clunky, and the ride is hard, and it has some mild body roll. I like the steering feel. I like the leather interior and the moonroof, and the climate control is excellent, it has a strong AC. on thing that blows is that not all the speakers in the car work. it is a fun little car to throw around, and I swear the other day it over-steered, I was surprised. Awesome little reliable cheap car. Well not as little as I like. There are other little things wrong with it, but so much that is right with it. The engine is kinda un-torque-y or first gear is geared higher than other cars. the transmission is a 4-speed. I think of it as a Personal Luxury-sporty Coupe. Though someone once called it a “granny” car.
the window motor on the driver side has failed… the heated seats only work on the passenger seat… The transmission is clunky… the ride is hard, …not all the speakers in the car work.
…reliable…
There are other little things wrong with it
I’d hate to see your idea of an unreliable car.
Wow- that interior looks just like my wife’s ’98 Accord, except in dreary looking colors with greasy looking materials.
BTW- the 98 Accord 4-cyl 5-spd is a fantastic car. We recently rented a brand new Camry and thought our old Accord was a much nicer, better-put-together, better handling car. I wouldn’t call it noisy, either. We recently did a 500 mile road trip where we seldom dropped below 80 mph and it was fine. It’s arguably a better freeway cruiser than my 335i. I even like the looks pretty well, except the long front overhang- much better than the newer Accords or the Jelly-Bean mid-90’s Accord. It’s a relatively light 3100 pounds with room for 5, and enormous trunk, rock-solid reliability, and pulls down 30+ mpg every tank.
Yeah, I didn’t understand the jabs at that generation of Accord either. To me, that generation and the one after it were the “quintessential” Accords that hit the combined sweet spots of size, price, and fuel economy.
For me, the most amusing aspect of the article was the fact that a reliable Honda product got passed up in favor of a Passat whose generation proved to be complete garbage reliability-wise. But hey, at least those Passats were pretty – right?
I still see Acura Legends and 2.5TLs around, and this is the rust belt. They must be durable as hell.
These were not great cars, but they were smart and a little classy in their time. They looked too much like a Accord , and the 5 cylinder got a little ruff over time.They made for a good starting point , something to build on. Looking back ( I leased both a Vigor , then a TL) These “Baby Legends” had a classy stature and the Acura dealership experience was top-notch in the beginning. By the time the TL lease was up , the local Acura dealership had closed, and Acura had begun it’s steady slide into full bore dullness. The dealership closed as Acuras numbers started to slide. Honda couldn’t move fast enough to distroy the Acura Brand. Killing the Legend name was a HUGE mistake. The RL never lived up to expectations, and many dealerships folded. Integra was replaced by some other alphabet nonsense and also lost immage.The whole current line up is just repulsive.It’s as if the Pontiac Aztek was expanded into a full line of cars and SUV’s.I wouldn’t visit a dealership these days , but then again , the nearest one is at least a 70 mile drive. It’s interesting to track how Honda was once bold enough to introduce a up scale Japanese Car line ,watch it exceed expectations , then piss it away.
I think the top pic is a 3.2TL. If memory serves, the only real exterior difference between the models was the grille; it was separate from the hood on the 2.5TLs, integral on the V6 models.
You’re correct. Also, the 2.5 had horizontal slats running the length of the grille, on the 3.2 they were vertical.
The newest “Mr. Opportunity” spot features him signing in an opera with a live action soprano. Thankfully, he doesn’t knock on the screen, which for most people is no longer glass, but acrylic.
That first gen CL was one of the rare Acura designs that work. It was much classier and more distinctive looking than its lumpy, doughy replacement. It wasn’t pretty like an SC300, but for an Acura it looked pretty good.
I don’t know how Acura is still in business after the invasion of the beaks.
I digged the original CL as well, despite being a VERY conservative interpretation of the CL-X concept (http://www.free-desktop-wallpaper-download.com/data/media/118/Free_1995_Acura_CL-X_Concept_Desktop_Wallpaper.jpg).
Incidentally, a Honda employee just sent me this:
“I recall that at that time that the rumor was that the engineers had produced two prototypes of the new Accord – one was a 4 Cyl and the other was a 5Cyl. Management chose the 4 Cyl for the Accord because the longitudinal layout compromised trunk space. I think that the engineers just couldn’t bear the thought of consigning the 5Cyl to the dustbin and the persuaded management – which was all engineers anyway – to build the Vigor. Incidentally, in Canada it was called the Acura Vigor . . . and it did have a small trunk.”
What is interesting to me is that Acura has changed in some ways (styling, for the simple reason that they weren’t being noticed) and in many ways have not changed at all. Compare the modern TL to other luxo barges. They are softer and quieter, many are faster etc. Sounds like about the same differences between old and new TL and previous comparisons. The difference is that the bar is in a far different place now, and the new TL actually has some driving characteristics to enjoy. Its too bad really, its sounds like Acura found a niche for itself, with nicely handling cars and better engines. Now the aesthetics are interrupting that whole schtick.
So, is Acura better off now? Or right about the same? Or just worse?
That interior shot looks almost exactly like my Accord. Actually it looks worse. The teardrop design of the center stack in the Accord is better than the long straight line Crown Vic look.
I would say the ’98-’02 generation Accord is one of their best, especially with the 2.3L Vtec engine. Size was finally decent for a family of 4. Economy is still par with modern offerings. Power was adequate for most things. And from my experience so far, reliability has been second to none. My opinion is that Honda has been on a steady slide downhill since that model. Obviously Acura started their slide earlier.
Is this the bad era for Honda transmissions?
@ psarhjinian: +1 on the Real Estate Agent / Financial Advisor thought.
What’s currently available that makes the same statements…I’m in that exact market, but haven’t found the right thing…
I’d say the upcoming Volvo S60 fits that bill. Likewise the Hyundia Genesis, though more so for those who know that Hyundia has moved above its cut-rate shyte box origins.
My sister bought a lightly used 98 3.2 in 2000 and it served her well for nine years and 130k. Her criteria at the time was “something nice”. I think that’s what the TL was at that point, nothing more than “nice”; inoffensive, subtle styling that was well packaged with all the expected features of the time. Add to that a reasonable amount of Honda reliability and uninspired but comfortable driving dynamics and you were left with a good example of a pseudo luxury car.
If you are going to parody Coleridge, DO IT RIGHT! Something like:
A Xanadu did Honda-San
A stately, pleasant drone decree
Where TL’s rivers of plastic, ran
Through changes feckless to man
An Accord with one less “C” .
Drove twice five miles of asphalt ground
Before a Passat I looked around
Five speeds and space, power which thrills
As passing by each roadside tree
This German car did cost less bills
And let myself keep more greenery.
etc. etc.
Bravo, sir.
ceipower’s post sums up everything I was thinking about Acura…
Superboy: I never ever thought I would say this, but have you considered a new Buick Regal? A VW CC might fit as well. A friend of mine who is an interior design consultant for large estates (no I didn’t make that up) recently bought a BMW 135i as her “drive to meet the clients” car.
“For some reason, the Vigor was HUGELY popular with Toronto’s Caribbean population.”
I live right next door to Toronto’s “Little Jamaica” and the most iconic car for this area is inevitably a rusted out Vigor with steel wheels, purple window tints (with air bubbles around the edges), a Jamaican flag steering wheel cover, a sound system that rattles the flimsy trunklid and a kleenex box in the rear parcel shelf.
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2500-as-is-or-2700-E-tes-safety-wowowo-W0QQAdIdZ215878354
This is a good example.
Ironically, my father, who worked for Honda Canada for a number of years, and also hails from the Caribbean, never owned a single Vigor.
I think your 2.5 as Audi imitator bit is interesting, but probably not accurate. The important thing to remember about the 1st gen TL/Vigor was that it was a re-purposed JDM car. I suspect it was mostly brought stateside because the Legend/RL has gotten so expensive. Thus the uncompetitive price and smallish engine (remember, the JDM has displacement taxes).
As “proof” I offer the 2nd generation TL (built over here and carefully priced just under $30K). Two models were built here for export back to Japan (Inspire and Saber), the vast majority of which had the 2.5 5-cylinder (tranverse-mounted). The US models were all 3 (or tuned 3.2) 6 cylinders. This despite the fact that the Inspire and Saber were going to sell for a lot more than the Yen equivalent of $30K.
From ’96 to about ’02, any Acura that wasn’t an Integra was a dud, and this car epitomized that.
Honda has always done weird things with Acura and only enabled the brand to hit its stride in the midsize luxury market briefly with the ’04-07 TL & the ’91-95 Legend. This car- essentially a facelifted Vigor- encapsulated Acura’s missteps in the late 90s. Take what was a relatively fun car, neuter it. Take what was a solid brand within the brand, abandon it for Euro alphanumeric conformity. They made the same grave mistake when they went from the phenomenal Legend to the complete dud that was the RL, and that marque has never recovered, even today.
The biggest crime, however, was Honda’s almost recalcitrant aversion to RWD, basically teasing us by installing a RWD configured motor and transmission, and then going to great lengths to have them power the front wheels. So you get the inefficient packaging of RWD and the the dynamics of FWD… a doubly losing proposition. With prices of Vigors and these TLs in the pits, I hope an enterprising individual will hack one of these up and give this chassis the RWD drivetrain it deserves.
And FWIW, structurally the front of the car was all Legend, while the rear was all 90-97 Accord. I know this because we raid these cars for 5 lug parts and bigger sway bars mercilessly. At the end of the day that’s about all they’re good for (as well as black leather seats, which also bolt right into 90-97 Accords).
Late to this post, probably too late, but as the someone who owned an ’88 Legend in the early 90’s it was a brilliant car. Fast for the day, handled better than the other 80’s run of the mill sedans and was nicely equipped. First trip computer I ever saw. It was also just the right size. The new Accord is much bigger, and the new TL is gargantuan (and ugly) by comparison. The new TSX, ripped on these pages, is actually a very close spiritual successor to the original Legend and a damned nice car in every respect.
All the base models, Honda, Toyota, Altima, Ford, Chevy, even Hyundai (I won’t include Chrysler) can be had with so many luxury appointments now that the expectation of what is a “luxury” brand has been lost. I see so many go back to RWD, but Audi doesn’t use it and hasn’t lost it’s place in the heirarchy. Besides, RWD is a non-starter for much of the snow-belt in the U.S. So what IS an Acura supposed to be beyond a Honda? Every Acura comes beter equipped than any MB or BMW, with their faux leather and optional everything, and will be more reliable. I read about automotive “soul”, as found in BMW’s, Benz’s, pre-Ford Jags, pre-GM Saabs and Alphas. Is the cost of “soul” frequent trips to the garage? I hope Honda discovers what Acura is meant to be, but I hope they don’t ape the Germans in the process.
Glad to hear from someone who owned one. I still occasionally see Acuras with actual names instead of “letters” driving around this town, which I consider a pretty good endorsement of longevity considering there isn’t a Honda or Acura dealer within 150 miles. (Of course I can say the same thing about old Lexi too.)