Find Reviews by Make:
This segment is another big one, representing a number of four-door sedans that are either larger than another same-brand, D-Segment offering (i.e. Impala, Maxima), or a premium or “junior luxury” sedan. That throws cars as diverse as the Charger and the BMW 3-Series into the same segment, and though less than perfectly-focused, it makes for some interesting comparisons. Take, for example, the fact that the 3-Series has sold better so far this year than the Charger. Or the fact that Acura’s divisive TL is selling considerably better than Hyundai’s white-bread Genesis. So much to learn…
60 Comments on “June Sales: Large/Premium Sedans...”
Read all comments
Ford/Mercury/Lincoln and Dodge/Chrysler are doing pretty well with old product.
hey teach,
remember, sale numbers aren’t always important,
it’s the *profit* each sale makes that counts :-)
The Imapla is an absolute piece of rubbish. After driving it, I could not believe that this car is still on sale in America. I’m sure a lot of them are going to fleets, but still, WHY?
Yeah, you’d think the platform & tooling are fully recovered by now.
Amendment:
How is a quality, roomy, large car that gets 30+MPG on the highway rubbish?
This of the money GM is pulling down by selling the dated Impala?
I tell ya, for the half-assed refresh of the Taurus everyone was cheer-leading about…it’s sales have been terrible…and I see a lot on the rental car lots…
The Taurus is going to be Ford’s new fleet queen. They already sell a ton to rental agencies, and soon they will be offering it to the police (of course…no sane LE agency will buy it…unless they like frequent and sky high repair bills).
I should know better, but…
Hey Z71/P71/Matt:
Didn’t you called the D platform outdated because it’s from 1999?
Then what do you call the W platform that the Impala is on? It was developed under Roger freakin’ Smith!
Didn’t you called the D platform outdated because it’s from 1999?
Not even close. Nice to see how you make things up to make an argument though.
I said something to the effect of:
“it rides on a recycled Volvo platform that came out in 1999”.
Nothing -at all- about it being outdated.
And, yes, the W platform is old. Which makes it even more funny that it handily outsells the failed D3 platform from Furd.
@Z71
It was roomy, and it did have a soft ride. That is where my accolades end. Handling was pathetic, seats were uncomfortable, the interior screamed “cheap”, and the engine was anemic. The fact that it is ONLY from 1999 is even more embarrassing… that GM was that far behind even then. The next Impala should ride on the zeta platform and everybody knows it.
My miniature review of the Impala may be subjective, but cars are about emotion, not logic. I remember taking the car for a test drive and stepping out, wondering how a company could have built such a miserable, sorry excuse for a car. And then I remembered that GM built it.
I put the Impala on par with the Camry or the Avalon. It’s basic. Very basic. But I actually think the latest design is less offensive to look at than some of the alternatives. It drives comparable to the alternatives as well. Soft.
I don’t think the Impala drives poorly, but it is nothing to write home about.
It however, doesn’t even begin to hold a candle to the Taurus, which is superior in every single way, except for price. Then again, it commands that higher because it isn’t sold in mass quantities to fleets, so resale and residuals are very high, and it is a modern design with plenty of cutting edge technology.
Z71 –
I won’t trash the Impala, it’s an OK car for the money that people pay for it. It needs an update, but for a big cheap car, people could do worse. Don’t keep making ridiculous claims that it is somehow better than the Taurus though, which is the new benchmark for the large sedan class. Sales of the Taurus have been incredible, easily double what they were for the previous model, rental fleet sales are limited to SE models only, and kept very low so that residuals won’t be damaged, and it sells better than everything else in the segment other than the Impala and Charger, both of which are being given away.
Cars are about emotion to folks who hang out on car sites, but for many people, perhaps most, they are an appliance. Those folks buy lots of Toyotas and Hyundais and other cars that don’t excite enthusiasts like the Impala – though the 305HP Impala SS isn’t boring.
I’ve driven an Impala rental car. It’s not a bad car and the retail customers that it has probably think it’s a good value. Otherwise, why would they buy it? It’s large and comfortable and relatively cheap.
I don’t know how long you’ve been driving but the Impala is hardly rubbish when compared to some of the excrement that was for sale in the 1970s and 1980s. Hell, compared to the Ford Aspire that Jack Baruth justifiably maligned the other day, the Impala is a superbly competent car.
Still, if GM is smart, the next gen Impala/Caprice will be based on
one of it’s modern RWD platforms and be a proper flagship for GM’s mass market brand.
You are way too harsh. Something like an Impala is not my ride of choice, but some family members have one and it seems like a really good value, and a great road-trip car.
sorry to jump on the hater bandwagon, but the SS I got “upgraded” to was trash. It was large, and it made a lot of noise, but it didn’t translate into acceleration very well with the “traction control” trying to kill me by applying breaking to alternate front wheels. Not what you want after merging across a few lanes of stopped traffic and trying to get into a stream of 70mph traffic. Haven’t driven a GM since, no plans to either.
Oh, I see. You didn’t say the D platform was outdated, you just heavily implied it.
Troll.
@OP: And yet it outsells everything.
@some other guy: Using your drive in an Impala to base an opinion on an entire car company is sheer stupidity.
The car sells, why WOULDNT GM keep selling it.
People astound me, its about numbers. If people are BUYING something you continue SELLING it.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not a great fan of the Impala, I hate the column shifter personally. But it offers a good amount of utility.
“Don’t keep making ridiculous claims that it is somehow better than the Taurus though, which is the new benchmark for the large sedan class.”
The new benchmark??? Are you for real?
I guess if mediocre is the benchmark…the Taurus is all over it.
But for someone looking for a car that is styled nice…both bold and appealing, doesn’t have an ass that is 10 feet in the air and an interior that is decent…the Taurus is not for them. The Taurus is a joke.
I don’t see it on here, but the CTS is at about 19K for year.
The Impala sells because it’s big, cheap, basic, and generally reliable. There’s nothing divisive about its looks, and where else can you get a full-sized, 200 inch+ car with a V6 (a weak V6, but still) for quite a bit under $25k?
That said, I agree that a new Impala is needed pretty desperately. Ditto for a Lucerne replacement (preferably not called the Lucerne), because I don’t think the Epsilon LaCrosse is really flagship material for Buick.
Tough for Lincoln that the Town Car is almost outselling the MKS, although I imagine most of those are fleet sales.
I have noted since the Genesis was released that it has had flat sales. Despite all the hype and hollering in the media and from Hyundai themselves about how great it is. Consumers aren’t buying it.
The consumer is the ultimate judge.
Uhh, sales of the Genesis (largely due to an increase in coupe sales) has INCREASED over the past half-year from slightly over 2K to 2,500 monthly.
And despite having been pointed out to you NUMEROUS times, the Genesis sedan (sales of the coupe have been pretty dismal) is doing pretty well – being the 3rd best selling RWD E segment import sedanin 2009 (note – the Genesis is an E segment sedan – luxury mid-size; as is the Azera – upscale full-size; Hyundai will also have a entry-level luxury RWD sedan on the market in a few years).
Only the E Class and 5 Series outsold the Genesis sedan last year; the Genesis outsold the Lexus GS, Infiniti M and Audi A6 by a 2:1 or greater margin.
Thus far this year, the Genesis sedan (going on to its 3rd year of sales in the US) is not only outselling the GS by a now 3:1 margin, it’s also outselling the new M.
(TTAC really needs to include the Azera in this category, as well as the upcoming Kia Cadenza/K7 – or whatever it will be called here in the US).
“The consumer is the ultimate judge.”
In the automotive industry? No, the government is the ultimate judge.
Since Hyundai refuses to break out sales of Genesis sedans and coupes (even though the models have absolutely nothing to do with each other and target completely different customer bases) there is no real way to tell how the Genesis sedan is doing, other than worse than the Taurus, LaCrosse, Avalon, ES350, LuCerne, 300, and Maxima.
The Genesis is not an S-class or 7 series competitor, so comparing it to sales on those models is pointless. It competes with the group listed above, all are around the same general size, have similar levels of luxury and technology, and go for somewhat similar money.
Prior to the launch of the Genesis coupe, the sedan was selling at around 1,400 units a month; also, Krafcik recently stated that 45% of Genesis sedan sales are for those w/ the Tau V8 – which is quite the percentage for V8 sales.
And no one is comparing the Genesis to F segment sedans like the S Class, 7 Series or LS, since the Genesis is an E segment sedan (the Equus is Hyundai’s F segment sedan).
1,400 sales per month for a car from any other mainstream automaker would be deemed a flop, why does Hyundai get a pass with the Genesis?
As far as I’m concerned it flopped since it came out and having a coupe mixed in with the number is a clever way to make things look slightly rosier than they really are. It also doesn’t say much about how well the coupe took off, another Hyundai that was hyped to death.
The Equus is going to rack up some Phaeton like sales numbers when they release that here. I wonder if we’ll here anything about that in the media too?
The Genesis is in an era where there are so many luxury brands to chose from… that ‘bland’ just won’t sell.
The Genesis is simply a bland and ‘disombobulated’ car. It may have better performance and luxury than much of it’s competition. But the smoothness of the sedan’s design is simply not there. I would even go so far as to compare it’s ‘upside down Mercedes grille’ with the blunt ugly snout of the 1st generation Infiniti Q45.
The coupe has no fluidity in it’s styling either… and despite the earnest marketing done to make it seem ‘sporty’, the few folks that even know of it’s existence simply see it as a touring coupe.
Those types of models simply won’t sell in an age where sedans can be just as good looking while offering far better utility.
The Genesis isn’t E segment or F segment (and please, for the love of God, can we stop with these alphabetic designations that mean nothing, if you want to call it a luxury car, call it a luxury car, if you want to call it a fullsize mainstream sedan, call it that).
The Genesis doesn’t in any way compare favorably to the E class or 5 series either, except on price. A Taurus limited or SHO has more luxury features and technology than the Genesis, both standard and as available options. It’s admirable that Hyundai built the Genesis, and overall it is a nice vehicle, but overall it isn’t any better than any of the established players in the price range, and certainly doesn’t compete with actual luxury brands. It’s a cut-rate approximation of a luxury sedan for those who think they are above a Toyota or Ford but who can’t afford a Mercedes or BMW.
@trishield
What does it matter that the Genesis is currently sold under a mainstream brand?
It still is a mid-size, luxury sedan (E segment) and outsells all but 2 other RWD import E segment sedans.
Hyundai is planning to launch the 2G Genesis under a new luxury marque – so a difference in badging shouldn’t have any impact in how to analyze its sales (just b/c the F segment Phaeton was badged as a mainstream VW doesn’t mean that the Phaeton sales should be compared to mainstream sales and not other F segment sedan sales).
@stevenlang
So you are saying the Lexus GS isn’t equally bland, much less the new 5 Series?
W/ the new M being widely touted as bordering on ugly and the E Class having an uglier version of the GS’ front fasica and that horrible downward angled side character line and boring rear end.
Whatever your opinion of the Genesis sedan may be, it still outsells the new M, as well as the GS and A6 by a hefty margin.
@NulloModo
Well, one wouldn’t classify a compact, entry level luxury sedan (3 Series) w/ a mid-size luxury sedan (5 Series) or a full-size luxury sedan (7 Series).
And while the Genesis may not compare against the E Class or 5 Series, it has been compared favorably against the GS and M by a no. of auto publications.
As for the Ford Taurus (a full size, upscale, but not luxury sedan0, the Azera and upcoming Kia Cadenza/K7 is the more apt comparison.
The 3-Series is the Ultimate Leasing Machine.
I see BMW’s 7 Series and Mercedes S Class are getting crucified in the UK car market by Jaguar’s XJ:
http://www.cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jaguar-becomes-instant-luxury-sector-leader/39082
Those kind of numbers suggest that Jaguar is heading back to it’s pre-Ford days as UK market leader in it’s class…. interesting, if not depressing reading for Ford.
The British brands are being passed around like a hot potato. Ford is very happy to be rid of Jaguar, Range Rover and Aston. With their profit sapping labor, it’s going to be difficult for these brands to be profitable. I also don’t feel that the XJ’s design is very good. Inside especially.
Chevy’s older models are doing well I see (Impala in its fifth model year, Lambda CUVS in their fourth)
But then new models like the Equinox and SRX are doing far better than their unrefined forebears.
As regards the Impala, if it’s not broken don’t fix it and apparently it’s not broken.
As regards Lincoln, RIP, Ford would probably discontinue it along with Mercury if not for the cost of closing the dealer network. This way the problem takes care of itself because no LM store can survive selling only Lincolns. Ford has definitely written the book on how not to manage a luxury brand.
The Impala sells for three reasons:
* It’s cheap
* It’s really cheap.
* The parts are really cheap.
You can, without too much trouble, buy an Impala for less than a Malibu and, if you never, ever have to sit in the back seat, you’d probably think this is a good idea. If you own a fleet, the Impala is a no-brainer: GM will dump them in your lap at near the price you’d pay—retail—for a Civic.
Like the Crown Vic, it’s practically designed for fleets. Unlike the Crown Vic, it’s at least moderately pleasant for a normal person to own. The Malibu is wholly better, but it doesn’t really matter.
Unlike the Crown Vic, it’s at least moderately pleasant for a normal person to own.
Welcome back, you old pain in the ass.
Come on, a day without my smack-talking the Panther is like a day without sunshine!
I agree with you Psar. There is a reason this is a vehicle sold only in North America, it wouldn’t be up to par in Europe or Japan. It’s simply a fleet vehicle and a percentage of the sales for the people who like the old school feel of a platform from the 80’s. Working in the rental industry I see these all the time, last of the Mohegans.
I sat in the back of a nearly new Impala recently and I was shocked at how little leg and foot room there was.
The fact that the Impala has less rear leg room then a previous-gen Accord and isn’t half as reliable as any Panther platform product makes its popularity a mystery indeed. Its highway fuel economy is barely better than what many people get in various recent-gen Panthers as well.
I am still not getting it. If you can get a real car like a Civic instead, why then go for an Impala?
Because people know value whey they see it,and the Civic is an over priced, over rated POS.
The Impala is about to be replaced, about time too, it has poor suspension and rear misalignment in the factory makes the vehicle difficult to control on slick highways and chews up tires.,also early failures of the exhaust and intake manifold gaskets affecting 2006 to 2008 models equipped with 3.5L and 3.9L V6 engines and many other items like strut failures and on and on, the customer does not need this.
Quote your source George.
Lemon Aid book by Phil Edmonston
Now that just makes me laugh.
Phil Edmonston being quoted as an authority on an automobile?
George, wouldn’t you rather be driving a Lada!
Maybe it’s just because I own the SS version, but I don’t get all the slamming. It’s comfortable, the trunk is cavernous, and it’ll blow the doors off most of the ricers in my area from stoplight to stoplight. (You know, where 99% of ALL driving is done.) That alone really gets the “but…but…if we were at a track…” crowd’s panties in a wad. I’d not be surprised if some/most of the hate is coming from those types.
Again, maybe it’s because I have the SS version, but I’m not getting the interior hate either. I’ve yet developed bruises on my fingers because the buttons weren’t “soft” enough. However I’m not the type to call my buddies and brag about how the plastics in my car were better than theirs either. Perhaps my buttocks weren’t pampered enough growing up because I find the seats comfortable too. (However two years of my life has been spent driving and riding in Bradley tanks.)
Recently was given a Taurus as a rental. I found the car to be small inside and lacking headroom, especially in the rear seat. The gas mileage was worse than I expected. The brakes were soft. However, it is not a bad car. I like my Toyota Camry better. In my opinion, the Camry has better handling, brakes, and acceleration.
OK, I’m not even getting all this hate towards the Impala.
This is a big country folks. You have an awful lot of highway driving, and many families are trying to buy full sized sedans instead of SUV’s and minivans these days.
What were the interior standards of those former SUV/Minivan steeds? A lot of typical plastic parts with small bits of inexpensive fabrics and petrochemical molds. Nothing special. Just what is typically done for most non-luxury interiors.
The Impala to me is no different from the last generation Camry, Optima, Sonata,…. you get the idea. It’s a car that effectively competes in the midsized segment by offering greater room at a cheaper price. Much in the same way as Toyota has been doing with the Camry these days.
I like them. They are honest vehicles that offer exceptional value for non-enthusiasts. Much in the way that the Lumina, Grand Am, and Caprice did in the days of yore.
+1.
Bashfest time any time the Impala is mentioned around here. It’s a solid, reliable, comfortable, affordable and IMHO good looking car, especially the LTZ.
X2
Is an honest car. An honest American car. I liked the previous generation better than this one, and still, if I could, I’d buy one.
I see them everyday with the local police (who imported a load not long ago). It’s even wife approved.
Even “enthusiasts” can appreciate this car. I saw a pic of someone autocrossing one, found the nice turbo system sold by some Canadian company, suspension bits…
And… the bashing on this car is because it has an “old” platform? LOL, has any of the haters realized that Toyota, Honda and others recycle the same platform for at least 2 car generations? Or is it bashed because is a GM car? MEH
“An honest American car”
Made in Canada. :)
What would GM do without car rental companies, taxi companies and cops. That’s where most of those POS impalas are going. That car is so bad, it can only be sold for next to nothing.
Oh please oboylepr.
You’re such a font of automotive wisdom that we simply must know what you, the Oracle, drive every day.
I just don’t get why one would purchase the Impala LTZ over the Lucernce CX.
Or, why one would have gone for the 3500-powered Impala LS/LT over the W-body Lacrosse and Grand Prix.
You’re comparing a loaded Chevy with an enthusiast bent to a base Buick. Two completely different markets. One is a sporty domestic sedan and the other is luxury focused.
The interior of the Grand Prix was an absolute abomination. You had a headliner that was curved along a thick A-pillar to make this possibly the most claustrophobic midsized car of the decade.
The Lacrosse attracts a different clientele. Buick is entry-level luxury and the cars reflect that in the way they drive and their presentation. Chevy is more focused on value and mass appeal.
The Impala is the equivalent of Corn Flakes in that regard. There are plenty of spicier and tastier things on the menu. But an awful lot of folks just want to have a regular breakfast and simply add their trimmings (engines, trim packages, wheels, etc.) when desired.
I don’t think there is as big of a difference between the buyer set of the Impala and the old-platform Buicks as you are claiming. In fact, I bet that the GM loyalists who liked the old Buicks will be drawn to the Impala now that the Epsilons are out in force.
I also don’t see where the Impala worked as the value proposition against the W-body Lacrosse. How much was the real world price difference between a Lacrosse CX and Impala LT? I remember it being like $700.
___________________
Anyway, the thought with my comment was that most seem to be saying they like the Impala because it’s a comfortable large car, with a big trunk, that is affordable and reliable. That seems to be something that the old Buicks do/did better than the Bowties.
ajla –
I can think of one reason to choose the Impala over the Lucerne – the Lucerne has the most uncomfortable seats I have ever experienced in a full size car. No matter how I adjusted them either the angle of the bottom cushion was off or there was something poking into me from the backrest.
Has anyone on this site addressed exactly how hard it is to get a Charger yet? They are nowhere to be found on a ton of lots. I’m wondering how much of that is actually demand based. My guess would be Chrysler throwing all its production behind Challengers and shipping the other LX units to rental/cop duty.
The author of the Lemon-Aid books that are published for the Canadian Consumer, is indeed a expert on all vehicles no matter what others say, he has devoted almost this life to doing this for Canadian Consumers,many companies like Ford and other have tried to take him to Court, but there law suites are always thrown out.
I don’t understand the lumping together of large rental cars from Detroit with compact and midsize luxury cars from Europe and Asia?
The Impala is the all-you-can-eat buffet of cars. You get a lot of it, and the price is right. For many people, that is enough, and more power to them.
But plenty of other people prefer higher quality, tastier fare for not much more money (or even less money in some cases, if size doesn’t matter).
My cousin had an Impala rental when her Dodge Caravan was in for accident repairs. She and her husband own the Dodge and a Jeep, so they don’t hate domestics. Let’s just say that the Impala didn’t impress her and leave it at that.