Andy writes:
This is a perfect question for the first day of summer: I would love the readers’ input on plow trucks, specifically using a 1500 vs 2500. I will be doing some light duty plowing in Eastern MA, in a small to medium sized parking lot with plenty of obstacles. I thought of a Wrangler since it could also be a great summer toy, but it seems like it might not be suited for plowing. I know some of the readers will have some good experience to share. Thanks!
Sajeev Answers:
A wise man in my shoes would recuse himself, but Houstonians aren’t known for modesty when talkin’ trucks. I’m imagining myself at the Houston Astrodome, navigating it’s massive, snow encrusted, parking lot. Which I did, at a recent charity autocross sans the white stuff on the ground. Still, I wouldn’t consider a 2500-series with several hundred pounds of metal sticking a foot out of the front. That rig ain’t never gonna move like an Earl Campbell with Mel Blount on his torso. And the smaller (1500s) aren’t obstacle friendly either: Ford put a “man step” on the F150’s fat-ass tailgate for a reason.
But a Houston Oiler and a Pittsburgh Steeler this is not. Plus, you said “light duty.” So if I wanted a snowplow on my zippy ride’s face, I am torn between a Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma: both with towing packages, 4x4s, V6s and a lot of ballast in the bed. Sure, you could go bigger to impress people, but they’d prefer you avoid their snow covered whips. If they sell snow plows for Polaris Rangers, you’d do just fine with plow on the “other” Ranger. But don’t take my word for it, talk to the “lownrangr“.
Steve retorts:
If you must go down this financial rabbit hole do it by buying something that is agreeable to drive in all seasons. So you want a Wrangler? Fine. Get one. But don’t delude yourself into what I call the ‘SUV syndrome’. Buying a vehicle based on how you would use it less than 2% of the time is always a losing proposition.
Always keep one simple idea in mind. You’re getting paid how much ‘net’ to shovel that snow? Only the largest of companies buy them for their own use because the economics of ownership are simply not there. Even Copart, the largest salvage auction company in the world, got rid of all their trucks, haulers and plows. This is a company with millions of inoperable vehicles and zero debt. No more haulers. No more plows. Just a free market with thousands of cut-throat contractors to choose from.
I have known countless contractors who ended up getting screwed by liars they worked for. Unless this is going to be a ‘fun’ play thing my short answer is, “Hell no!”
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
Try one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vx369nR9HQ
Twotone
I have to agree with Steve. Getting deep into an 150 or 250 and the cost of the plow just ain’t worth it. At least in our area there are dozens of guys that haven’t figured out the math on this or have the trucks for their farms or landscape and other contracting businesses and plow on the side. They’ll fall over you to do the job. My father-in-law had an F-250 and a plow, never made a dime on it and ended up ruining the engine AND the transmission. We have a rear blade for our old Ford tractors, if I need it for snow on our long rural driveway I have it (like this past February), and have the tractor for other chores on our small farm. If I don’t need it the blade sits until I need to smooth out the gravel drive in the summer.
For years I used a 1957 John Deere 420 to plow snow with a backblade. My father-in-law blew the transmission on it by using an auger w/o a breaker bolt, and then the engine started to leak oil so bad I couldn’t drive it more than 200 feet w/o the plugs getting fouled.
I replaced it with a 35 hp New Holland Diesel tractor of more recent vintage which is downright posh in comparison.
Wranglers are notoriously worthless at plowing. Not enough weight and too short of wheelbase.
Where my parents live in Kansas small tractors are used to plow snow and pull cars out of the ditch. Same tractor can be used to cut grass and brush in the summer. I would guess that a small tractor would be less expensive and more rugged than a truck.
Avalanche. With the 8.1L V8.
How about a 4-door Wrangler Unlimited? I know they aren’t ideal for plowing giant lots, but for an all-around car, with SOME plow capability and the longer wheelbase, it could make a well-rounded solution. I know of quite a few people in Suburban NYC who plow with Wranglers, and they haven’t complained about it to me.
Per my brother-in-law who knows a thing or two about trucks: If you’re plowing anything more than an inch or two of snow (and being in eastern MA, you will be plowing deeper stuff than that) don’t plow with anything less than a 250/2500 as the frames on lighter duty trucks were not designed to take that kind of abuse. At that point, then, you have to ask yourself if you have any other use for such a truck. If not, hire the job out instead or, if the parking lot is fairly small, get a large two-stage snow blower.
Under no circumstances should you consider using a Wrangler for plowing.
I find/buy/spec/sell/export heavy equipment, we do a lot of business selling snow plows, and the response above tells you everything you need to know.
Rent/hire.
If you absolutely must do it yourself, and you want to own a pickup, go for a lightly used Chevy or Dodge 2500 4×4. But don’t buy a Dodge from the Mercedes era.
If you don’t have a use for the truck otherwise, start searching the online equipment listing sites. You can buy used plow trucks for four-figures all day long. Buy one, wear it out and buy another one in a few years. It’ll be less than a new truck.
are you a truck guy? then get a truck………IF you camp, tow a boat, hunt in the fall and spring, carry mulch and lawnmowers around, etc…. and keep it a long time. Trucks are a long term deal, otherwise they are money losers for posers. I know plenty of those guys…..
otherwise pay someone to do it.
get a 3/4 ton at least, if you decide to do it.
I’m in suburban Eastern Mass and I pretty regularly see people plowing out our relatively short driveways with Wranglers. When I lived in the western part of the state where driveways tend to be more than 20 feet long, it was all 1 ton trucks, although I did my parents’ driveway for a couple years with a 1989 Toyota PU. I’ll add that driving that Toyota with a plow hanging off the front SUCKED big-time. Didn’t feel safe going over around 45 MPH, even with 200 lbs of sand in the bed, so I did minimal driving with it with the plow on.
It’s unlikely to be worth your time, money, and wear and tear to plow only one parking lot. But if it’s just for fun (and plowing IS fun when you don’t have to do it for a living), I’d get something like a 4×4 F350 with a C6 transmission and use it for plowing and toting junk around. Your neighbors will certainly appreciate it.
I work for a school district in MI. We use GMC 2500s. They are fine going around obstacles.
Can’t really say whether a Wrangler is up to the task or not – never tried one.
If this is a wintertime business you are starting, you are going to looser your shirt. There is no money in snow plowing. Run, don’t walk, from this.
In my experience most of the people who own a plow truck are trying to sell it. Take what you will from that, but you could browse Craigslist and profit off someone else who already lost their shirt plowing.
Around here, the lawn guys put the plows on their pick-ups in December to keep the cash flow up until the grass is visible again.
I think there are some big-@$$ self powered snow blowers that you could use as well.
Was with a company that managed over 130 buildings in the Great White North. Acres of surface parking and miles of walkways. About two dozen Jeep CJs (Wrangler) going 24/7 during heavy snowfalls did 90-percent of the plowing. The rest was by front end loaders.
We found the highly maneuverable 4WD Jeeps equipped with the smallest engine, an automatic transmission and deep lug snow tires were much cheaper and vastly superior to pickup trucks for this work. A six-foot plow turned sideways is ideal for plowing standard five-foot sidewalks. In the summer we hooked small utility trailers to them for groundskeeping duties.
The real key is the operator. An incompetent driver, we called them cowboys, will ruin a plow vehicle in an afternoon, run up an enormous repair bill, and take it out of service for a week. Downtime is a killer. Operators standing around the garage for hours and the job not getting done. Vehicle longevity was in the eight to ten year range. Road salt damage, we used tons of it, eventually killed them. Mechanically they’ll go nearly forever with a reasonable preventive maintenance program.
Many operators don’t know or don’t care that traditional part-time four-wheel drive is for low traction road conditions only; ice, mud, snow, and loose gravel. Engaging it on dry pavement results in damaging driveline binding, wheel hop and costly repairs.
Badly treated Jeeps are money pits. Finding a good used one is difficult. I would buy new.
A truck is not required.
An old Chevy Corsica will do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkWY6VDAFfM
My uncle used to plow his 80′ driveway and all his neigbors’ with a ’55 Willys Jeep Wagon (6 cyl) that he also used for camping. He replaced it with a ’68 Wagoneer with a V8. He was also in Eastern Mass. where he dealt with heavy wet snow. He loved driving in rain or snow, and plowed driveways several times during a storm.
If that doesn’t sound like fun to you, a Wrangler (with the biggest engine available) will work for up to 3-4 inches, but more than that requires bigger equipment from a contractor. Figure what to do with the Wrangler the rest of the time and judge for yourself if it’s worth it.
I’d get an older Wrangler with the 258 six and a used plow blade to keep the investment at a minimum. I’d probably sell the blade after the second snow season and keep the Wrangler a couple more years before deciding it wasn’t worth keeping as an extra car either. That might be the path you’ll follow too.
I would check out plowsite.com lots of guys with jeeps plowing on there. I live in CT and I see a fair # of people plowing wranglers.
I would really steer clear of using a Ranger or Taco for snow plowing. I’ve seen too many 1500’s with bent-up frames from plowing to think anything less than a 3/4 ton is suitable for plowing deep snow. A Wrangler will work, you just need to get a right-size plow for it; about half the size of a commercial plow, which obviously is going to make your job take longer. My advice would be to get the cheapest high-mileage 2500 you can find. 4X4 with an automatic (you will burn out your clutch with a manual) – and not an allison trans; the reverse is geared to slow.
Answering your question at face value, you need a 3/4 ton.
As stated, the half ton frame isn’t strong enough especially for plowing a parking lot (as opposed to a driveway).
Trying to plow a parking lot in anything less than a 3/4 ton truck is begging for trouble IMO. It’s also worth noting that plowing with a half ton truck is specifically not recommended by manufacturers and may (read probably will) void the warranty.
At work we use F-350s 650s and bobcat A300s Plus the Trojan 4000. I wouldn’t recommend anything less than a F-250.
A plow truck to me is some beat up old truck that is no longer road worthy that sits in the corner of whatever lot needs to be plowed until needed.
One of the GM dealers in Dawson Creek BC had a little Toyota stuffed in the back of its lot for that sole purpose. It just sat there, with the plow permanently attached to the front, waiting for some snow to push around. It was kind of amusing, a parking lot of new full size Chevy trucks surrounding this little late 70’s Hilux with a plow on the front.
Personally, we used a full size 2wd van that seemed to work for our rather long driveway when I was a kid but eventually a rusted out 68 GMC 4×4 took its place. I was about 14 when I got told to go and figure out how to drive the damn thing. The hydraulics sat between the front seats with the hoses run out to lift on the plow, not something I would want to deal with in a daily driver at all.
I would imagine all that crap can go somewhere less irritating now with just some electronic lever to control it.
I’d recommend an early 90’s straight six 4×4 Ford pickup with a stick shift, it would work for doing pickup truck stuff (other than towing things) and is cheap and disposable and probably road worthy if needed. Take the damn plow off when going on public roads PLEASE.
+1
If you’re looking for light & tight plowing ability and need it for nothing more than a summertime “toy” then may I suggest:
http://www.utvguide.net/club_car_xrt1550_intellitach.htm
Granted, you’ll probably spend as much money as a late-model low-mileage used Wrangler with a plow kit, but it’s designed for your application(s). I don’t know why the Coparts of the world don’t go for vehicles like this as they should do most of what a junkyard would need to haul parts through the slop and snow.
Full disclosure: I used to work for the manufacturer designing this particular vehicle