Jeff writes:
Long-time lurker here with a question: I’m currently driving a 1996 Outback with 162,000+ miles. Over the years I’ve had to make a few minor repairs in addition to regular maintenance, but nothing more serious than replacing an alternator. The car still drives well and gets 23-25 mpg in daily mixed driving (and about 28-30 highway), but has been slowly using extra engine oil for about the last 40,000 miles. I make sure I check the oil level at least bi-weekly, but normally don’t have to add any for at about 2-3 months, or after an extended highway drive. (75-80 mph turns the engine at 3000+ rpm; there’s a definite drop in the oil level during the trip.) I’m using full synthetic 5W-30 as recommended by the manual.
The questions: what’s going on in the engine that could cause the oil leak/burning? Is a repair (or even ignoring the problem) economical enough that I can get a few more years out of the car, or should I bite the (financial) bullet and trade the old workhorse in? I can certainly afford to buy a new Subaru, but I’ve spent the last 14 years wearing a comfortable groove into the driver’s seat. Thoughts, opinions, flames?
Sajeev Answers:
Unlike our last Piston Slap regarding Subies and upsetting levels of oil consumption, this one is about age. Though it’s kinda shameful that a modern car with 162k on the clock burns that much oil, there are some basic things to check. And not all of it means you need a new set of piston rings, a new motor, or a new car.
- Simply look underneath the damn thing and make sure you don’t have an oil leak. Fix the leak and you’ll fix the problem.
- According to the Internet, the original Outback was not turbocharged, but if it was, old turbos can burn oil before they ultimately fail. New or low mileage used turbos are never a bad idea in lieu of a new car payment.
- Condition of the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system, because a blocked PCV valve can lead to significant oil burning on a worn motor. Though not especially legal, you can install a breather valve in lieu of an oil filler cap to “relieve” the system of its oil burning properties.
- In that vein, we’re talking about excessive engine blow by from worn “oil control” piston rings. There are several ways to check, but a wise move might be to consult a Subaru forum about your choice of engine oil, as this thread elucidates.
- While your fuel economy implies otherwise, this might be a good time to do a compression check on all cylinders to see how healthy your “compression” rings are in the motor. If all else fails, junkyard motors are cheap, come with a warranty, and most shops can install them with a day’s worth of labor.
No matter what, I’d reserve judgment on the Outback until we shine more light on the problem.
Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com
If there’s no leaks, if the blocked PVC valve isn’t the culprit, you could give a “high mileage” oil a try. When my 1987 Oldsmobile running a 307V8 started to burn a quart between changes (around 100,000 miles) the high mileage oil cleared it right up. I used Valvoline of the correct weight spec-ed by GM. I was however at the time doing all my own oil changes.
If all else fails, junkyard motors are cheap, come with a warranty, and most shops can install them with a day’s worth of labor.
Does that really make sense for a 14 year old car with 162k?
I understand your point, but that totally depends. What will the total cost of the new engine be? If you don’t have the money can you borrow it for a reasonable rate (from say your local Credit Union), are you comfortable with committing yourself to car payments?
If I had a car like that and had a teenager that would be quickly acquiring a license, I’d keep the old Subie around. Sink a little money in the old war wagon and have something for the kid to drive. It’s fairly safe and not so powerful that it’s like handing the kid the keys to a Mustang GT or something.
It sure does, because Jeff seems to like the way the seat is now custom fit to his butt.
Short of getting hit by a train, cars can last forever. It all depends on the owner.
Yes, given that a used EJ25 + installation is most likely less than buying another Outback in decent shape. Especially out here in the Pacific Northwest where the damn things hold their value extremely well.
I’m very skeptical that a 1996 Subaru normally aspirated 4-cyl would be calling for 5W-30 synthetic oil. Synthetic oil is way over-subscribed. That stuff is for racecars and high performance vehicles, not engines that spend the majority of their lives under 2500rpm. Try the regular 5W-30 cheap-o oil. It likely won’t stop all the burning, but I bet less oil will be leaking past the piston rings. And at 162k, you don’t have too much to lose.
Otherwise, that is a beautiful car and if you’re happy with it, just let her run.
Agreed. I used to run Synthetic in my 2004 Outback (2.5) and it was always using oil. At about 60,000 miles I switched back to conventional and I haven’t used a drop of oil since (about 30K+). So stop the synthetic and your problem will go away.
Also… go over to SubaruOutback.org and look around. They’ve answered this question several times over there.
Scott
NN is correct. Synthetic oil is completely inappropriate for older engines, as it gets past seals and piston rings far easier than petroleum oil does. Not a problem with new engines where the tolerances are still tight, but after some wear it can become a real problem.
Rarely over 2500? Jeez… The only time my 9-5 is *under* 2500 is if I’m highway cruising… :)
My 89 XT (non-turbo) burned a quart every 3K miles once past 150K miles (despite regular 3K maintenance from new). Hardly noticeable but the small oil capacity meant that a quart low was not something to not ignore, thus I checked oil every 1000 miles. I drove it to 220K then sold it (and it went to 250-260K before the air suspension went out). Once I realized it was starting to burn a little oil I switched to 30W (Castrol or Valvoline, can’t remember which). I drove it in the Pacific NW where heat was never an issue. I also had the lower intake runner cleaned of oil residue/crude at about 135K and the mechanic said the PCV system was very nasty with oil residue/crude. I concluded that something was not right with the oiling return/combustion but as I was still getting 33 mpg and it seemed to run fine, I lived with it. Having a 50$ an hour mechanic dismantle an 8 year old 4 banger in a $1,000 car wasn’t worth it.
I also would recommend trying some different oils.
If you have some time, check would http://www.bitog.com (bob is the oil guy) and you will find tons of good information from people who have gone through similar situations as yourself.
It feels as if we are trying to fix a problem that doesn’t exist. So you add a quart of oil every other month. Not a big deal.
Jeff, Subaru does not call for synthetic oils for these cars. Put some conventional oil in it, and see what happens. There’s zero risk, and it just might make a difference.
Our 2000 Forester has 130k with cheapo oils and long oil change intervals, and never burns any oil at all. Good luck.
I’m not sure I got a good feel for how much oil you are using, but unless it is getting to be more than a quart per 1000 miles, on a car with 162k I don’t know that I would do anything other than just check for obvious leaks.
It’s normal to see some drop in oil level on a longer trip if the car is normally not seeing a lot of highway time, moisture that may have gotten in the oil from a lot of short trips is boiled off and accounts for some of that change.
I quickly scanned this post, so sorry if I missed it, but … 2.2L or 2.5L ?
The 5-spd outback with the 2.2 was a great car, and a very solid reliable motor (had one) … the 2.5 however was prone to internal head gasket failures.
If you have not found this site yet, try searching here:
http://www.subaruoutback.org/
There seem to be a lot of very knowlegable folks there that know the specific oddities of the old subies.
For 1996 The LSi, GT and Outback variants would have had the 2.5 liter engine, unless it has a manual transmission, which got the 2.2, but judging by his RPMs at highway speeds, it sounds like a 4 speed slushbox, so it most likely has the 2.5.
I’m surprised however this is a question about oil consumption and not about a leaking headgasket, which these engines are notorious for. In fact, I picked up a really nice Legacy LSi wagon with 171k on the clock for a grand and I am in the process of doing a rebuild on the engine myself since the HGs were toast. You can get a reseal kit with a new timing belt and pulley(s) for less than 500 bucks and rebuild the whole thing in your driveway quite easily. A local mechanic would charge you a lot less than the Stealership if you wanted to save a few bucks.
Heck, there are even good tutorials on Youtube on how to tear down and rebuild these engines. Despite their freakish boxer weirdness nature, they’re quite easy to work on. You should be able to eek another 200k out of it after a fresh rebuild.
As for synthetic oil in these engines, I don’t have a problem using it at all. I’d probably use Valvoline Max life instead of Mobil 1, but that’s a personal preference, since all my cars have well upwards of 150k miles on them.
I agree with grzydj…I’m thinking 96 was the first year for the DOHC 2.5 (EJ25D) and it would have been in the Outback. Notorious head gasket eaters. There was an extended factory warranty on head gaskets up to 8 years/100k IIRC provided a dealer did a coolant flush with a special additive. Given that this example has 162k with nothing more serious than an alternator replacement I’d say the head gaskets may be giving up the ghost. There’s a wide variety in the manner in which they fail (my wife’s 99 lost one at 142k by exhaust pushing the coolant out, but never letting coolant escape the opposite direction).
Edit: I would also recommend conventional high-mileage oil formulations. I used Valvoline high-mileage 10w30 (or maybe 10w40) before the HGs went and never had consumption issues.
Change the oil to a conventional dinosaur brand of 5W-30, drive it a while to let the motor get used to the new stuff, top off to the full line on the dipstick and then take a trip (stopping every 100 miles and checking the level). If the oil consumption is lower than it was with the synthetics, you’re ahead. Then switch to a high mileage oil or a 10W-30 and repeat. The tranny eventually died before the motor did. If you want to eliminate any mechanical cause for oil consumption, then do the easy mechanical stuff like the PCV valve and looking for gasket leaks and pulling the spark plugs but don’t do anything else. At one point I was running 20W-50 & STP in my ’73 Galaxie because of main bearing wear and a flickering oil light at idle – but it wasn’t using any oil!
The voice echoing from inside the dumpster, after falling inside while retrieving a still-sealed white-frosting-covered delicacy, agrees with the other responders declaring a conversion to non-synthetic oil and perhaps bumping up the viscosity a notch is a possible action course.
Perhaps some 10W-30 or even a “straight” weight of 30W or so. Not that there’s anything wrong with non-straight weight, yah’ know.
Any name-brand oil will do.
Omitting the “standards/grade” thing since you are unlikely to pull from the shelf 15 year old oil meeting “old” standards.
Plenty of fine advice from the folks upstairs.
And follow that advice about keeping an eye on the stick of dipping to ensure there is enuff dead dinosaur juice available to lubricate that moving metal in the engine’s innards.
Switching to conventional oil is unlikely to stop the leak, but it will make top-ups slightly cheaper (although the price difference isn’t what it used to be).
What you really might consider is switching to a higher viscosity. As motors get old, clearances wear and open up a bit, so higher viscosity is OK. The thicker oil is less likely to seep through leaks and past piston rings, down valve stems, etc. Try a 10-40
Be careful about switching to higher viscosity (single weight) oil in the winter. The owner’s location is not specified but (too heavy) oil can be responsible for starting problems in cold weather. Multi-viscosity is probably the best choice.
@tced2
Seeing how the vast majority of Subies are sold in the snowy parts of the US, I’m going to go out on a limb here and deduce that this car is currently somewhere that will see some frosty temps in a month or two. I’d exercise a bit of caution on putting molasses oil in that engine too.
I recommended at 10W-40. That’s just one increment thicker, both hot and cold. Not exactly molasses. If that doesn’t work, a 20W-50 wouldn’t be out of the question. I ran that in a leaky S-10 in winter once, and it was fine.
I have gone to 50 weight oil in extreme cases(1968 GTO that had too many quarter miles). Worked fine,and dramatically slowed consumption. I never had starting problems in winter in northeast Ohio.
A GM Chevy guy originally suggested this.
A quart every two months on a 162K mile engine is hardly grounds for complaining. Almost any repair is likely to cost you more than just continuing to add oil. My rule of thumb: if it’s not fouling plugs or using more than a quart between fuel fill ups then it’s not a real problem.
Keep the car – its at a perfect stage in its life. The constant replenishing of the lubricant with fresh additives means that you need never change the oil. Just change the filter every 5-10,000 miles and drive it.
Hi. Engines burn oil. It is a machine, not a television. Add oil to the port beneath the cap with an oil can icon on it when filling with fuel. Until a weird noise starts. Then, look for a new engine or vehicle. That is all.
Clueless news: My car seems to have an insatiable appetite for tires and brake pads. Every 50-60k miles, I have to change them! What could be causing this issue? I am appalled at the frequency of recurrence! I thought humankind had come further.
Wrong. I’ve seen around 20+ cars with 150-200k on the clock that use no (or not enough to notice on the dipstick) oil between changes. Turbocharged, high compression, etc and it doesn’t matter. 3000 miles, 6000 miles, etc between oil changes too…and two of the cars alluded to are mine.
I think its BS that any modern, non-race car burn any oil in 150,000 miles of use. Rotaries aside, the Model T went out of production a long, long time ago.
This is simple semantics. I could just not open the hood between changes, and ‘cure’ the car of the condition you seem to be insinuating it possesses. But I won’t. I’ll continue to add that half-quart, and I’ll continue calling the process by which it was lost ‘burning’ oil.
Not really, because there are plenty of vehicles where checking the dipstick proves that many old engines do not burn oil. Because I’ve seen it with my own eyes.
If it never gets lower, your car obviously doesn’t burn or leak oil. And if its a Honda with 250,000 miles or my ’95 Lincoln @165k…so be it.
Normalcy is relative, and relative to my experience oil usage is normal. I’ve seen it with my own eyes :) I will not be convinced otherwise until I have the pleasure of owning a vehicle that does not exhibit such behaviour. Seeing as I’ve just crested 40,000 miles on my driver, it could well be a decade into the future. And yes– I add fractional amounts of oil to this one as well.
Spare me the know-it-all shtick. No one can be so well-versed to pretend he’s a tome on normalcy. Manufacturing variances within the same brand and model are evidence of this, let-alone the independent variables.
The boat and lawnmower use oil too.
My ’98 Outback – at 214k when I sold it – barely used any oil between changes. I ran Castrol 5W-30 part synthetic.
You are gonna play the “know-it-all” card because you haven’t open your eyes to the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of vehicles that don’t burn oil (or enough to register on the dipstick) after 100k or more?
Stay classy, iNeon.
Let me see if I understand this? You’ve got a 14 year old car, with 160+K miles on the clock, and you’ve got a case of the vapors because it uses an ENTIRE QUART of oil every other month? Are you grossed out because you have to touch that icky-yucky oil bottle every other month? This really is a county full of things that resemble men but really aren’t. Years ago, you would have been lucky to get a car to 100K. What did you expect? To drive the car for 9 million miles without having to open the hood? That Subaru has given you good service for 14 years and a lot of miles. Drop a quart of oil in it once in a while and it’ll go to over 200K miles without a problem.
Check the oil, if it’s low top it off. Easy enough, oil’s cheaper than an engine. But like Sajeev mentioned look into a compression check, as it’ll tell you a lot and could reveal if your headgaskets are on the way out as mentioned above. Watch your temp gauge for the same thing. Normally I’d say don’t throw parts at it, but if you’re paranoid enough, PCV valves and tubes are cheap.
My/my dad’s ’89 S-10 with 156K on its 4.3 used to burn oil like it burns gas. We spent a Saturday at the mechanic (my dad’s friend from elementary school) and cleaned/replaced the PCV parts. Now it just burns a bit and blows smoke on startup, worn valve seals probably. It should last at least to 200K, assuming the transmission holds up.
Oh and Sajeev thanks a lot now I have Midnight Oil’s ‘Beds are Burning’ stuck in my head! :D
We are talking about fixing the problem or replacing the engine as if we are talking about a 2 years old car, this is pretty old car, the engine is probably not the only problem with it.
Even if you take a new 1996 technology, meaning, make this car new, it still 15 years old and new cars are much safer than old cars.
I drive a 2006 car, no ESC, no TPMS and only 2 air bags, the same car as 2010 model have all these as standard including 6 airbags.
I say, new cost more for a very good reason.
I must agree that synthetic oil is rather a scam. I really think oil cos. promote it because ALL cars that use it will burn it off a bit. I was using the dinosaur stuff since new (for 4 yrs) for my 2.2L ecotec; then I switched to synthetic a few yrs ago. It burns it a bit. But I’m scared to switch back to the old stuff now. I wish I had stuck with the conventional oil.
Your car is not young anymore. Any 15 yr old car will have a few issues. Minor oil burning is no prob, as long as it passes emissions.
You can switch back to regular oil in your Ecotec without any problems whatsoever. The old wives tale about switching between blends is just that, an old wives tale.
For a lot of cars there is such a thing as normal oil consumption. 1 quart in 1000 miles is not significant. Changing the oil from synthetic, and to a heavier weight can help.
I had an Eldorado ETC with the Northstar. Because of aggressive cross-hatching on the cylinder walls (meant to retain oil) it consumed oil. That’s what Northstars do. I also had a Ford Taurus that burned a quart around every 800 miles. I was told that was to spec. I believe them.
Some cars, built with higher tolerances, smoother surfaces, will burn less or no oil.
If the body is good, and the suspension is good…keep it! Car payments stink. Only if you begin to notice blue smoke coming out the back, would I really worry about the consumption.
Subaru recommending full synthetic oil?
I think not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have a 1998 Legacy GT wagon with over 200k miles. It has the 2.5 engine and a five-speed manual transmission. We used to run 10W30 mineral oil and change oil and filter every 3,750 miles. We now run 5W30.
A few months ago, it was using a quart of oil every thousand miles and leaving droplets on the driveway. Our mechanic fixed the leak and oil consumption is negligible again.
The car has had a number of expensive failures. One of them was a leaking head gasket which we caught before it did major damage. However, the interior of the engine (bearings, rings, etc.) is original. Ditto for the clutch and transmission.
We plan to keep it until it does something really expensive such as a catastrophic engine failure that would cost several thousand dollars to fix. Putting $1k or even $2k into it each year still beats car payments. At this time I see no reason for it not to last until at least 250k.
My advice to Jeff is
(1) Fix any big leaks. At about 90k miles, ours started leaking through the front main seal at the rate of a quart every 300 miles.
(2) Consider running mineral oil instead of synthetic. If nothing else, its cheaper than synthetic. 5W30 or 10W30 should be fine.
(3) Don’t worry about consumption until it exceeds a quart in 1,000 miles. Even then, oil is cheaper than engine rebuilds.
A good additive such as the Lucas brand oil additive could reduce oil comsumption. I added some to my 95 Ford T-Bird 4.6 LX at each oil change and it seems to work. Restore is good as well
Hi everybody. I appreciate the feedback and the suggestions. Based on what I’ve read here, and at the Bob the Oil Guy and the Outback forums my plan of attack is:
1) Have a compression test done.
2) Switch to non-synthetic 5W-30 at my next oil change. (Sorry about the confusion caused by the original post; I meant to say Subaru recommends 5W-30 and that I’m using a synthetic of that weight.) Based on consumption and performance after that I’ll see about switching to 10W.
3) Get a couple bottles of Auto-Rx and perform the engine cleaning ritual.
As always, I appreciate any constructive comments on the above, although well-crafted flames always fun to read.
A little more background on the Outback itself: it was bought in 1996 at Schuman Carriage in Honolulu to replace my wife’s Sundance. (Long story on that; short version is: Not my fault.) I’s got the 2.5L engine with the 4-speed automatic; all maintenance has been conducted in accordance with owner’s manual. It’s a military brat; it’s literally dragged me and the family across the country a half-dozen times and performed wonderfully as a short commuter in between moves. It currently lives in southeast AZ and is being eyed for inheritance by my 16-year old son.
Slap a used motor in there if the rest of the car is in good shape. The way I look at it- if you drop 2 grand fixing it…that’s about 4 or 5 new car payments. Back in 98 we overhauled the engine on our 90 Legacy with 170 k on it and got another 3 years out of the car before replacing the car.
Replaced it with a 2001 Outback that has 200k on it that had the same thing done to it 2 years ago. Our daughter uses it at college….perfect car for parking in downtown Philly…it looks beat to hell but it runs like a top.