Toyota has essentially confirmed that a hybrid Yaris will be built at its Valenciennes, France plant beginning in 2012, coinciding with the next generation. Autocar, which also has a gallery of 2012 Yaris spy shots here, points out that Toyota did not name the new hybrid as a Yaris specifically, but that is the where the Yaris is made, and it fits in with with Toyota’s strategy to expand its hybrid line. In this case, it expands it downwards, in a market segment particularly important in Europe and Japan (pretty much everywhere except the US, actually). It also marks the second Toyota car for Europe to be hybridized without a unique exterior, like the Prius and LH 250 here. Toyota already sells an Auris hybrid in Europe, its Golf-fighter, along with the Prius. The big question: will the littlest hybrid find its way stateside?
The Yaris hybrid will also go head-to-head with Honda’s Fit hybrid, which will specifically not be coming to the US. And the current high value of the yen makes importation of the Yaris problematic. But if Toyota switches to US production, and if oil prices continue upwards, it would seem likely. Unless, of course, it would threaten the Prius’ halo as Toyota’s highest mpg car.
Toyota’s European hybrid strategy seemed iffy a couple of years ago, but the indications are that diesel prices will be pushed upwards to parity with gasoline. That would give Toyota a further leg up on the economics against the popular diesels. Diesel market share has already dropped a bit in the past couple of years, and a phasing out of diesel’s tax-favored status will only accelerate the trend. And of course, the Europeans are all developing hybrids too. Are we seeing a major transition in the making?
Makes you wonder when they’re going to do a diesel hybrid. Theoretically, it makes sense, and would outdo the Prius.
Diesel has three serious disadvantages:
* It is complex, and thusly expensive, to make a modern diesel; much more so than a gas engine and not a lot less so than a hybrid. It’s heavy, too, to boot
* It (diesel) doesn’t handle stop/start nearly as smoothly as gas.
* Diesel doesn’t benefit nearly as much from hybrid power as gas. Toyota’s HSD is great at keeping a gas engine running at it’s most efficient point. It also offsets the torque deficit of a small Atkinson-cycle engine
This is before we get into emissions. Diesel, even with a modern emissions control system, has real pollution problems. I think the Euro tests have, and still do, make allowances for the the significantly increased emissions a diesel will make when it “coughs”.
Unless there’s a sea change in technology, diesel is dead tech walking outside of heavy trucks.
Peugeot is finally rolling out one diesel hybrid:
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200bhp-with-65-mpg-anyone/
But it’s been a long time coming.
@psarhjinian
All special low consumption car variants in Europe are diesels and have start/stop, this is the first time I read it is troublesome.
All special low consumption car variants in Europe are diesels and have start/stop, this is the first time I read it is troublesome.
I should clarify: it’s nowhere near as seamless as a gas-electric hybrid’s start/stop.
That Toyota (and Ford, and Nissan, and Honda) has not gone the diesel-electric route is telling. All of those companies have access to both good diesel and good hybrid technology, and yet none of them thought it was worth trying. The technical challenges aren’t the issue: diesel-electric passenger cars are just not worth it.
I’d argue that an important factor for the absence of diesel-hybrids is the fact that until the Auris HSD all Hybrid cars were developed for the japanese or the US market. A diesel hybrid certainly makes no sense there. But I also agree that the potential savings of a diesel-electric hybrid don’t seem to be enough to weigh up the additional costs of both the diesel (and emission) and the hybrid tech…
But if Toyota switches to US production, and if oil prices continue upwards, it would seem likely.
No, it probably wouldn’t. I’m surprised the Yaris is made in Europe and Japan as opposed to Thailand, China or suchlike. The US is probably too high-cost a producer for as low-margin a vehicle as the Yaris.
Unless, of course, it would threaten the Prius’ halo as Toyota’s highest mpg car
That’s an interesting point: it might do exactly that, though with the Prius having moved up in the world it’s less of an issue. It’s also possible for Toyota to time the release of a Yaris hybrid with the release of a publicly-available PHEV Prius.
The US is probably too high-cost a producer for as low-margin a vehicle as the Yaris.
More that Europe ?
Probably, yes, once you factor in the costs to tool up.
“I’m surprised the Yaris is made in Europe and Japan as opposed to Thailand, China or suchlike. The US is probably too high-cost a producer for as low-margin a vehicle as the Yaris.”
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Small cars (in fact any size of cars) sell at higher prices in Europe than in the U.S. Lots of small cars are locally produced in Europe that would not be viable to produce locally for the U.S. market. That’s the flip side of being able to buy cars cheaply – you don’t get the jobs to go with it.
It also marks the second Toyota car to be hybridized without a unique exterior, like the Prius and LH 250 here. Toyota already sells an Auris hybrid in Europe, its Golf-fighter, along with the Prius.
In the US, we have the Camry Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, the LS600h, the RX450h, and the GS450h. They all lack unique exterior styling in the manner of a Prius or LH250.
Hybrid diesel > HSD, you will see when they launch their hybrid diesels.
I brought from Italy a magazine and have been checking the fuel economy numbers for the cars. About +50% of the lineup have diesel, and some of them are in the 28 km/lt range. Amazing. Even gasoline cars.
Why aren’t we getting the Fit hybrid? Guess we’re stuck with the Insuck until they stop making them…
The Insight is built on a Fit chassis. It has a unique look because the Civic Hybrid didn’t attract people trying to make a statement the way that the Prius does. Not sure what calling it an Insuck does for your argument. The Insight is the most reliable car sold in the US. It isn’t for me, but I would rather have a Fit 1.8 than a Fit Hybrid any day.
You have been trying to prove the point that diesel in europe is on the way down for more than 3 years now – blaming it on various factors: the price parity of the fuels, the increasing fuel economy of gasoline engines, the fear of high repair costs, etc.
Yet the avaialable data from acea shows a much simpler point – diesel share fell when the company car (and larger car in general) market crashed to near zero and C4C programs raised the share of small cars to an abnormal high. Already in the first quarter of 2010, while that market was only veery slowly recovering, the diesel trend proved upwards. ACEA sadly is to slow to provide newer figures, but I’d like to wager the guess that by this years end, diesel market share will be at least >50%. Now, maybe next year, the market will prove your perception right – but sofar, the downward “trend” of diesel engines has not actually started…
Oh, and the success of Toyotas Hybrid / Anti-Diesel strategy can be seen incredibly well in both hybrid share in europe (incredibly low and iirc stagnant) or Toyotas marketshare (now thats a downward trend…)
The main reason for that is the fuel economy but also the simple fact that small turbo diesels are simply stronger in the most often used rev range than the petrol atmospheric engines of similar (small) displacement. Here is an example:
Renault 1.5dci, max power 110hp – at 3000rpm it generates about 80hp
Toyota 1.6 petrol, max power 132hp – at 3000rpm it generates about 54hp
Thus even though 132hp sounds impressive for 1.6 engine it is really much less powerful at 3000rpm than the turbo diesel of lowly 110hp.
Turbo petrols on the other hand compare much better but they are not really cheaper or less complicated.
I just came back from Europe driving a Citroen C3 Picasso. (Think Kia Soul on steroid) driving from Paris to Hamburg return. That turns out to be about 1,200 miles. At no less than 80mph and sometimes 90-105MPH, average consumption was 40 US miles per gallon. Not once did I see any large soot being emitted and the HDi turbo four cylinder is wonderful. BTW, we saw one Prius on this trip and I fully understand why. Why have all the complexities of of hybrid when a simple small diesel will suffice. I don’t the vehicle would have achieved the same fuel economy had the Prius power plant been fitted in this vehicle. Needless to say we have a long way to go over here before we can approach the fuel efficiencies of vehicles for sale in Europe. Makes you wonder how stupid GM could be killing their “small” new tdi for the Silverado 1500.
” It also marks the second Toyota car for Europe to be hybridized without a unique exterior, like the Prius and LH 250 here.”
I think you mean the HS250h. Toyota also plan on releasing the Ch200h and Auris hybrid in Europe as well. Auris hybrid may come to market earlier then the Yaris, and the Corolla is also due for an update in the next-year and is rumored to get a hybrid option as well.
Either way, the current 1.4D Yaris gets around 60 mpg combined, and diesel is cheaper then petrol in most of Europe. The real question is what prime-premium this hybrid will have over the diesel. For an economy car that is in a price-sensitive market segment this will be crucial.
I don’t understand the anti-diesel sentiment expressed above, and some of it is flat wrong. If anything, diesel engines are SIMPLER than their gasoline counterparts, for the one fact alone that there is no ignition system. A modern direct-injected, turbocharged diesel engine is directly comparable in complexity to a modern, direct-injected, turbocharged gasoline engine (ecoboost). And any way you slice it, the diesel is going to come out on top as far as fuel economy goes, due to the higher energy content per gallon of fuel vs. gasoline.
Where diesel technology is more complex is in the emission treatment required due to the soot that gasoline engines don’t produce, I’ll grant that. But as our modern heavy-truck engines in use today have proven (not to mention the highly advanced passenger-car diesels in Europe), these challenges can and have been met.
I really do suspect that there are powerful forces at work in our country doing everything they can to keep these modern diesel cars off American roads in high numbers. And one very effective way to do so is to continue promulgating the anti-diesel sentiment. If half of the passenger cars & light trucks in America were diesel-powered today, imagine how many less millions of barrels of oil we would be using (and how many less tons of CO2 emitted to boot)!
Something stinks alright, and it isn’t that TDI in front of me!
I can think of nothing more dispiriting than owning a Toyota hybrid.
Ick.
I utterly oppose diesels for one main reason: They sound like sh*t. A car shouldn’t sound like a looped recording of an old guy wheezing.
Diesel sound is for F350 Super Duties, Peterbilts, and school buses. I spent a week in Spain over the summer, and my God – if I never see another TDI logo, it’ll be too soon. It’s a whole damn country full of cars making noise to freeze the soul. I’d see gorgeous Mercs and BMWs come rolling up to a stop light… going “CHRELCHRELCHRELCHRELCHREL”… It was awful.
Seeing a beautiful car and then hearing its diesel engine is like having Megan Fox come up to you and offer you her phone number – in Barry White’s voice.
My God do justice and strike the diesel down.
LOL.
But are you implying that Megan Fox sounds any better? One of the things that I really have a hard time getting used in NA is the totally messed up unisex voices of men and women alike.