Harley writes:
I’m considering buying a Mercury Grand Marquis. Maybe it’s not the most popular car on the road today, but I want a large, solid, comfortable, quiet car with rear-wheel drive, decent low-end torque and a V8. I don’t care too much about a lot of the new bells and whistles and I prefer a soft comfortable ride rather than sporty handling. The Grand Marquis seems to fit the bill.
I plan to keep the car for a long time. So, do I buy new and have the benefit of knowing the car’s maintenance history and the way it has been driven since day one? Or do I go with a year or two old Grand Marquis (most likely, from what I’ve seen on the used car market, a former rental fleet vehicle) to avoid what I gather to be the relatively steep depreciation cost I’d incur if I buy new? I guess what it really comes down to – what do you think about buying a Grand Marquis that spent its first year or two as a rental car?
Steve Answers:
I have bought four of your ilk this year. A 1996 for $1700 with 78k and leather. A 1997 for $2350 with 41k and cloth. A 2000 model loaded to the gills for $1700….and a 1999 model with 89k for $1700.
Do you see a trend here?
Each one needed anywhere form nil to $500 in repair work and easily had 100k miles left on them. Why so low miles? The Grand Marquis is predominately bought by ‘mature folks’ who are looking for that perfect final ride. In the used car market, they are about as stressed as the late Lawrence Welk counting his royalties as he sits on an All-american Lay-Z-Boy.
By the way, did I mention that the last few years of the Grand are about as de-contented as the Detroit Lions? The glory days for these models is in the 2003 – 2005 era where you have far better handling to go with a less floaty boaty ride. If it were my dollar I would opt for a 2005 model like this one. Okay, maybe not that one. But with close to a half million built since 2003 and declines in value that rival the steepest in the business, you should absolutely have no trouble for finding an exceptional used Grand at dimes to the dollar.
If you can’t find that perfect one in your neck of the woods there is always Florida. I have combined Disney with car buying in the past few years and it’s always yielded me a cost free and worry free vacation. If the local market offers few and far between you may want to go where these models are as plentiful as early bird specials. Good luck!
Sajeev answers:
Perhaps you remember Panther Appreciation week: all three Panthers I have regular contact with were bought used, from previous owners with no corporate connections. (probably) So you’d think that I’d agree with Steve. Except, not so much. This time the New or Used segment will live up to its name.
Go new, as I did several years ago for an MGM road test that became the “usually very picky” voice of dissent against the Panther Haters. Enjoy buying that new car smell with pricing at invoice or below, better finance rates, a (decent?) selection of colors and a reasonable warranty. A warranty that you’ll never need, because this is a modern Panther Chassis. Plus, the goodies from my 2006 road test are history: swanky black interiors, Interceptor handling packages, dual exhausts, soft-ish velour seating, moonroofs and CD changers.
This is a big problem, one that’s cursed the Panther since 1992: every redesign is both better and worse at the same time. Want traditional values in 1992? Find the “last of the good ones”, a 1991 with gigantic bumpers and pushrod motors. Prefer to own a yacht with a not-crappy interior? Avoid that new, “bean counted” 1998 model and go 1997. And yet, people still bought new ones. The world may never know why. But come 2011, that’s all gonna change.
So screw it. Put me down for a 2006 MGM LS, with a black cloth interior to create an actual contrast to the tacky-excellent fake wood. Find the one with the right options, have it inspected and take the plunge. This is one of the safest bets on the planet, it’s damn near impossible to go wrong. So get the most “right” one you can find. No regrets there!
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
The depreciation on a Panther is horrific. Never buy a brand new one. Take as long as you need to find an excellent used one. Previous rental isn’t a bad way to go, especially if you buy it from the rental car company. They often seem to keep their best stuff for their own sales.
I would probably try to find a lightly used one in a private sale. I know what I do to rental cars and I would never, ever buy one again. I bought one back in 1997 and discovered later that all manner of things were “repaired” in the most redneck manners imaginable. Never again.
Think HERTZ!
DONUT!
Why buy that old dinosaur when in another month or so you can buy a brand new 2011 Dodge Charger or Chrysler 300?
Even old dinosaurs have their charm.
I just acquired a 2003 Grand Marquis, used of course. It’s a good car. Quiet on the road, reasonable power, good handling. I can dash thru the narrow gap between the Jersey barrier and the 18 wheeler, at 80 mph, and it feels good, runs straight and true. The traditional rear wheel drive is good in everything but snow.
You get a full size 6 passenger car. It’s comfortable on trips, big enough to take a child and his gear to camp or to college. There is somewhere to put your left foot that doesn’t jam your knee into a bitey bit of door hardware. Gas mileage is OK at 22 mpg but not as good as the 27 mpg the Caddy DeVille could do.
I got mine after said Caddy DeVille came unglued at 145K miles. The New Hampshire pot holes pounded the poor Caddy so hard the rear axle came loose. Caddy is a unibody car, which means there are no solid spots to bolt on heavy stuff like engines and suspension. The fasteners loosened up and were on the verge of coming clean out when I traded. I miss the Caddy, the engine had much more power than the Merc, the styling was way better. However the Merc might last longer. Merc has a frame which distributes point loads like engine and suspension to the body. Merc has a better radio with both CD and cassette tape built in. Merc has satisfying direct controls for heat, air conditioner and defroster. You can set the fan speed to suit yourself. Caddy cabin heat is full auto, the computer sets the fan speed and temp and you don’t get any choice in the matter.
Big 6 passenger sedans get bought new by older and wealthier drivers who take good care of them and don’t beat them up. They last for 150-200 Kmiles. New they cost $40-50K, lightly used they go for less than $10K. A used one with 50K on the clock will give you 100K miles of service for less than $10K. That’s a better deal than a new one the gives you 150K miles of service for 4 times the money.
Don’t fear the rental. The Taurus X we bought last year was a Florida Hertz car, and led a rocking-chair life judging from its condition. Even the floor mats were spotless. In 15 months and 18,000 miles (34K total on car), it hasn’t given us a lick of trouble. As with any other used car, do your due diligence.
Don’t fear the rental? I would fear it. Go with “Grandma’s car”, and not a rental. You are just asking fort transmission trouble. I know from experuence.
And so do I. I don’t think either one of us is an expert on this issue. My experience has been overwhelmingly positive, but I chose carefully and had a seasoned mechanic inspect the car. Buying grannie’s whip guarantees you nothing. As I said, do your due diligence with a used car no matter what its provenance.
If it is important to you try searching for a CPO vehicle. Around here the price for a CPO Grand Marquis almost the same as buying the car at Car Max with no warranty. Otherwise look for old and low miles for stupid cheap prices.
Now could somebody answer the question for me: Is it worth it to search out a model with the “PrecisionTrac” suspension option? Is it really noticeably more tied down and less floaty while still being serene?
@Sanjeev, “modern Panther chassis?” Isn’t that an oxymoron given how long Ford has neglected this platform?
Dang it’s not like the thing has been untouched, there have been year to year changes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Panther_platform
Besides there’s something to be said for buying a car based off of Ford’s Panther or GMs W-body. “After this many years of building it, they ought to have it figured out by now!” – John Deere Salesman Joe (my father) quoted when buying a 2005 Blazer lease return in 2007. (The quote is related in that is was another long lived platform.)
The underpinnings have been neglected since 2003, so this body style is the modern Panther.
(points to hydroformed chassis bits and rack/pinion steering)
Not saying you shouldn’t buy a Panther, if it’s the kind of thing that turns your crank. But a 2003 rework (to introduce rack-and-pinion steering! Gasp!) doesn’t exactly make it a modern chassis.
2003+ is modern by body on frame standards and Panther standards. More to the point, the best selling vehicle in the USA is BOF, so the term “modern” is very much relative.
And when did BMW ditch steering boxes for rack and pinion? The 5-series had it for a very, very long time.
Buy used a save a bunch of money, these cars are driven by older people like myself, and not abused. Mine consistently get 25 mpg at 70 mph on the interstate. E Bay usually has lots of them ,both dealers and priavate party. Florida would be the perfect place to find one. Maybe go to Cars . com and see what the dealers in your area have.
My vote is for a used GS400 or GS430 from Lexus. Get one with 70-100k miles for 8-12k
You won’t regret it
You will if things start to break and you have to pay for Lexus replacement parts. The GS doesn’t have an affordable Toyota twin. Many parts are interchangeable between the Grand Marquis, Crown Vic, and Town Car. The cars are incredibly reliable to begin with, but also stupidly cheap to maintain and repair if anything does go wrong.
Buy the used one. You will easily save between $5000 and $10000. That’s worth losing a bit of that new car smell, no?
Dinosaurs belongs to the past.
Buy a 21st car instead. (Audi, BMW or a Merc.)
And pay the price when the repair bills start coming in? Pass. And full disclosure, I love German cars (having owned numerous variants, the last being a 2000 Golf that self-destructed mere seconds after the warranty expired). That being said, while I love the GM/Crown Vic (and it would seriously suite my longhaul commutes between Alabama and South Carolina), given the crappy reliability I’ve dealt with on my 2006 Fusion makes me loathe to grace a FOMOCO vehicle any time soon again. Good luck with the MGM…there is something strangely appealing about the old girl…
Hmmm… I just bought an 06 Fusion… Have had no problems yet. My GF also just bought one, again, no issues to report. We love ’em.
My parents have been driving their 99 GM for 5 years now, it has about 175K miles on it. again, no major issues other than regular maintenance, and one blown-out spark plug (a common issue on the 4.6L, and a fairly easy fix). Overall the Panthers are pretty reliable, and if something catastrophic does go wrong, parts are a dime a dozen and very easy to come by. I’ve tried to interest my parents in a newer car, but they’re the type to drive a car till it disintegrates… And knowing their car, that will not be for a good while yet.
very few people keep an Audi, BMW or Merc for a “long time” as requested by Harley. With that in mind, I think you meant to say Lexus.
I hope this doesn’t mean the return of Panther Appreciation Week.
This is just a byproduct of said feline appreciation week.
Be sure to consider a late-model, low-miles Lincoln too. They are the depreciation kings of the auto universe, and owned by the same elderly folks who bought the MGM.
For some situations, these cars can’t be beat. I went hiking with someone who owns an MGM; the vast trunk swallowed up the packs and other gear brought by the four of us, we had endless room inside, and the highway ride to the trailhead was smooth and quiet.
Honest question: what difference does RWD or not-RWD make on a car that isn’t driven like a race car?
This isn’t scientific by any means but here goes: Mickey Kaus had a theory that RWD SUVs became so damn popular because people prefer the feeling of being “pushed” along in a RWD vehicle to being “pulled” along in a FWD vehicle. As long as gas was cheap, people would chose RWD for that “feeling” over the “feeling” of being pulled along in a FWD vehicle despite the obvious advantages of FWD. (BTW I know Mickey can be an obnoxious a$$ but I think he’s right about this one.)
Here’s the link: http://www.slate.com/id/2081194/
Myself,I prefer the feel, or the driving dynamics of RWD. I love my Impala and would love it even more if it was RWD.
Good article Dan. Very edifying.
@Dan, I can see the arguments for RWD when handling is a significant criterion. But if you are looking for a “large, comfortable car” with a “soft comfortable ride” I really don’t think it will make much difference whether the car is FWD, RWD or AWD. For all those retirees driving their Panthers in the left-hand lane at 55 mph with the turn signals on, can they really tell that the car is RWD?
I believe that an Avalon could meet the original poster’s criteria just as well, as just one example.
Torque. Steer.
’nuff said.
FWD cars don’t ride like RWD, not even close. They don’t take undulations at highway speeds with the cruise control on nearly as well. Can’t explain why, maybe its that whole “doing too many things with the front wheels, nothing with the rear” point of view. And they certainly don’t barrel down the highway at WOT like a RWD sedan from Europe, Asia or the USA.
RWD rules.
Carlisimo, you get crappy winter traction, oversteer in slippery conditions, and crappy leg room for the middle rear passenger. There’s little benefit for RWD on a non-sporty car.
Maybe you can go longer between tire rotations, but that’s all I can think of.
There’s no need to hold on to the same GM forever.
Seeing as how the boxy look ones are the best*, I say just continue to buy a pre’92 example until you can’t find them anymore.
_____
*: excludes safety
I have only bought three brand spanking new autos. The first I lost my shirt and pride selling after paying it off. The second I ended up trading it in on a new truck before it was paid off. The third I gave up on and drove it back to the dealer and left the keys before the first year making payments.
Go used. You win!
40 years of buying cars, both used and new,I firmly believe from a value point of view,that used is the only way to go.
IMHO Mikey, that means something coming from you. Even a guy who receives a discount to buy a new vehicle from his employer would rather buy used to feel like he got more for his money.
I donno, if we all got Mikey’s (former) employee discount on a new car, this series would be called “New or New.”
Employee discounts are good, but used is can often still be much better, especially in the case of a depreciation monster like a panther.
Employee pricing with all incentives on a new Grand Marquis is still around $22K, which granted, is a hell of a deal for that car brand new. Trade in value for one a few years old with very low miles hovers around 10.5 – 11.5K.
Are you willing to pay 50 cents a mile in the absolute best case scenario to have a brand new one?
These cars are reliable, easy to work on, and had owners that babied them. It’s a no-brainer to buy used, the repair costs will be negligible compared to the depreciation of buying new. If this were say a European car like a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi, I think the new-car warranty is money well spent.
If you’re not well-versed with cars in general, have a reputable mechanic go thorough it (it’s a bargain) Set aside a budget for repairs and you’re golden. I’d steer away from rental cars, but on this model it’s probably not as important.
I’ll probably buy one of these gems in a few years (my wife hates them though), they’re just stupid cheap used. It’s a shame Ford never really put a better V8 in these. Had they put a 300hp Mustang engine and taken a couple inches of trunk space to make the rear seat have more legroom, I think they would have found a bigger following. It would have taken very little money.
It’s a shame Ford never really put a better V8 in these. Had they put a 300hp Mustang engine and taken a couple inches of trunk space to make the rear seat have more legroom, I think they would have found a bigger following.
They did, it was called the Mercury Marauder.
I don’t really count the Marauder, (but good point) Ford really screwed that one up. WAYYY too expensive (like $35k-$40k) and they should have made it a Ford SVT edition instead of geriatric Mercury. They were good cars though, but a total sales flop, Mercury dealers couldn’t move them.
What I meant was to simply make the standard engine in the Panther platform the Mustang V8, no special edition with a $12,000 premium. I bet the increase cost for the Mustang heads would be less than $500 per vehicle for Ford to upgrade. Most consumers would gladly pay a little more for the model if it had a hotter engine. It probably would have caught on with the tuner crowd as well, it wouldn’t have been relegated as a livery and police car. Oh well.
A Grand Marquis LS goes for over $30K sticker, so the Marauder wasn’t that huge of a price premium.
I didn’t realize it was a sales flop, they came out before my time at the dealership, but it seems everyone who bought one absolutely loves it. It would have been neat to see a Crown Vic with the 300hp Mustang engine though.
I think the Gran Marquis were a bit cheaper 8 years ago, probably mid to high twenties. I honestly don’t know if I would have paid the premium if I were in the market, a few bolt ons for a lot less could get you similar performance.
The car just wasn’t that quick, 0-60 was in the 7 second range. A new run of the mill V6 Camry or Accord would smoke it. It would be fine if it was just a normal car in the Panther lineup, but if you’re trying to create the image of a muscle car, you’d better step it up.
I went to the Mercury website, built a loaded- to- the- gills Grand Marquis, and got a sticker price of $32,295. Then I went to Autotrader and found a 2010 with 8500 miles on it that, in addition to all the crap FoMoCo would shoehorn into a Grand Marquis at the factory, had all the pimptastic dealer added accessories you could imagine, including a totally bitchin’ fake cabriolet roof kit. Asking price for this example of ghetto fabulousness: $24,985. There were 196 other 2008- 2010 MGMs with less than 30K miles within 200 miles of my house.
Go used. Definitely. I mean, with a 25% depreciation hit in just 8500 miles? How can you not?
Who pays sticker for a GrandMa? Start with invoice price, take off the current $4000 rebate, and you’ll get a brand-new 2010 for close to the price of your used one.
Get the color you want and there are no worries about maintenance history. In this case, new beats lightly used.
True, but nobody’s going to pay the dealer’s asking price for a used one either. Edmunds has the invoice price for a MGM at a shade over $28,000. With all the options they have the invoice price at about $30,600. Even if you could get a dealer to sell it to you for under invoice and even with the $4,000 rebate, you’re still not touching what you could get a very slightly used one for with even a half- assed attempt at haggling. The OP would still have most of the factory warranty and a chance at all of the super groovy dealer add- ons like the fake cabriolet roof.
Not too many people bit on the Marauder – maybe they didn’t go far enough with the Impala SS theme.
I have painted several dozen for use as taxis, I check the odos sometimes – my record so far was 371k on a P71 that was getting a fresh coat of yellow. So I guess they do hold up.
Nobody bit on the Marauder because nobody heard of the Marauder.
You can’t sell a car like that in a geriatric showroom.
Little more looking on Autotrader yielded this gem: 2008 Maroon MGM with a beige interior, all the factory bells and whistles plus extra dealer chrome bling including very stylish mudflaps, and 3000 miles. Asking price is $19K.
A few entries down was a Light Blue 2010 with 7600 miles. Asking price was $18,990. With that one you’d still have most of the factory warranty.
Gotta go used.
For what you want it’s not a bad car. I mean, I’d still buy a first-generation Acura 3.5RL or a Toyota Avalon, but that’s mostly just to honk off Sajeev et al.
Get used, for the reasons above, and whatever you do, make sure you know the ownership and maintenance history. Just because the parts are cheap does not mean you want one that’s seen any fleet duty whatsoever. If you’re in no hurry, do as David says and shop around.
Can’t honk me any more, mostly because you lost a ton of credibility when you said “Avalon.” :)
One tactic is to cruise Craigs List for a used MGM. Look for an ad that is from someone young who just inherited the car from an older relative. This way, you get a car that has been babied, dealer serviced, and has a motivated seller.
http://gawker.com/5671050/woman-drove-around-with-corpse-for-close-to-a-year
One reason you may want to check the upholstery on your MGM purchase!
WTF?!?!
Prone to theft – chopped for taxi parts. Avoid the CVT – not a good match.
Avoiding a CVT in a Grand Marquis will be a very easy thing to do.
And the PATS makes them somewhat difficult to steal. Unless you leave the keys in it.