TTAC Commentator npbheights writes:
Hi Sajeev, I have a 2009 Toyota Corolla XLE with just over 45,000 miles on it. I purchased the car brand new with 52 miles on it and have had every oil change performed at the selling Toyota dealer at the recommended 5,000 mile increments. I know it sounds a little silly, but before you laugh, the dealer gives you free tires and batteries for life if you have all of the “scheduled maintenance” performed there. On a Corolla, the book specifies oil changes at 5K and air filters once in awhile and that’s about it. I am playing this game because it’s not worth getting crushed to death by a car over an oil change (like someone in my area two weeks ago) and I intend on getting my fair share of tires. They have already coughed up two. When it comes to unscheduled maintenance, such as replacing the alternator at 38,000 miles (I was not pleased about that) I wench it myself. Said dealership wanted $720.00, I bought a good used one on ebay for $50.00 and it works fine. New front brake pads: $38.00. This simple car is ‘idiot simple’ to work on and I enjoy it. Anyway – On to my 2 problems.
Problem #1
When I run 87-octane fuel in the car and I am driving at a normal pace, say over 35 MPH and I lightly apply the throttle, a slight rattling from the engine audible. I have a classic car as well and it sounded like pre-ignition to me. With today’s advanced computerized engine management systems, I thought that was a thing of the past but just for the heck of it, I put a tank of 93 in the car and poof, it went away. I then put 3 tanks of regular in it and then the sound came back. On my current tank of gas I put 93 in it and it went away again. I have never had the Check Engine light come on. Is it possible to have a faulty knock sensor and not have the CEL light come on? I don’t know where it is yet but is there a way to test it? I did not buy a stupid Corolla to put high-test in it.
Problem #2
While this is semi-cured I would like to mention this as well and get some feed back. As I explained, I bring the car to Toyota for oil changes. I do check the level now and again and the engine barely uses oil and the stuff looks as clean at mile 5000 as it does on day 1. This summer I have started to notice at startup the engine makes an unpleasant noise like it has no oil in it. It happens right as the engine turns over and just for a split second, then all was fine. I immediately checked the oil. Almost full. This went on for a few weeks. Three weeks ago I checked the oil again and it was down less than half a quart. I went to Wal-Mart to buy a quart of the recommended oil. Manual said 0W20 or 5W50. I had never seen such thin oil specified for anything outside of a door hinge. I perused the isle with all of the additives and looked at the Slick 50 but settled on the $3 bottle of STP oil treatment. It was 15 ounces so I figured there was enough space for it in my engine for some. It freaked me out a little when I poured it in the engine. It was so thick, images of slugged out ’99 Camry engines flashed through my head. I chickened out at about 3/4th through the bottle of STP. I also put a dash of the salad oil (5W20) in it for good measure. Since then the car at sounds perfect at start up. The oil change receipts do not specify which oil they are putting in the car, and I not usually one to challenge engine designers, but is this super thin oil appropriate for South Florida in summertime? Should I have the dealer put a bottle of STP crap in it at the next oil change or will they freak out? I intend to put at least 200,000 miles on this car and I will not tolerate failure.
Sajeev Answers:
This is quite the quandary, but one thing remains: there’s no such thing as free tires and batteries, as dealers normally load the average cost of those expenses either on the front end of the deal, or into the cost of these maintenance packages. Then again, perhaps you got the Corolla for Invoice or less, and perhaps the dealership wasn’t expecting you to keep it for 200,000 miles while doing high margin repairs (like alternators) by yourself. So good for you…probably.
Question #1: as you already know, the Corolla is tuned for regular grade gas. Some engines tend to ping from carbon buildup, so perhaps all you need is a good fuel injector cleaner (or Seafoam for older cars) and a whole lot of time at full throttle at higher RPMS. If you’re a lead foot and know that’s not the problem, at least pull a spark plug and examine it for signs of improper wear. Since you can change an alternator, do yourself a favor and just replace all four plugs proactively. That combined with a little carbon-busting action should clear it up.
Question #2: I suspect you hear a little timing chain rattle, which won’t affect the life of your engine for a long time, even by your (Steve Lang worthy) automobile ownership standards. That said, fixing this is as simple as a change to full synthetic oil in the recommended viscosity. No more additives, no need to mix viscosities like a master chef in full experimentation mode: make it easy. Doing this worked elsewhere on the Internet, and also in my personal garage. Because of your relationship with the dealer, ask if they’ll do a synthetic oil change and let you extend the service interval without repercussions to your free tire/battery plan. Best of luck with that.
Send your queries to mehta@ttac.com. Spare no details and ask for a speedy resolution if you’re in a hurry.
Where are you buying your gas? I notice a big difference in how smooth my cars run between 87 bought at major stations like Shell and Exxon and 87 bought at the convenience store and supermarket owned stations.
Same test as yours. If I run a few tanks of discount gas, and then with the tank on empty, fill up with say Shell, the engine is a lot quieter and has more pep.
What does the dealer charge for an oil change on your penalty box?
About $31.50… They get you with tire rotation though- Thats $15 bucks extra. A rip, I know.
So let me get this straight: a 45,000 mile 2009 Corolla needed a new alternator, new tires, has an engine ping on regular gas, burns oil and a possible timing chain rattle. And you are bending over backwards to maintain the “free” tire gimmick for what are likely $50 Hankook tires. Sounds like a lot of work for a new car.
I love what you do for me – Toyota!
One of many nails in the coffin of “Well I just buy the Toyota to be safe, even though it’s about as exciting as a dead carp.”
You may be onto something here–have we just been trolled?
If I were putting a zillion miles a year on a new Corolla, I’d skip the free tires bit and get oil changes done by my trusty, less expensive local mechanic as often as specified by the manual. I’d replace the tires with those of my own choosing when they wore out. And once the powertrain warranty expired, I’d switch to synthetic oil and only change it every 10-20,000 miles.
Judging by the interior, there was a lot of cost-cutting in the current Corolla, so the mechanical issues aren’t that surprising.
Yes, driving a crappy car and having problems?
And if you are reading TTAC, what are you doing driving a Corolla anyway?
Eh, not all car enthusiasts want to make the fashion or wealth statement that driving e.g. a BMW makes. I drive an ’01 Corolla even though I’m an auto enthusiast, avid F1 fan, and fascinated with the auto industry. My car’s an appliance because I am more interested in getting to some location to pursue my other hobbies — I put more miles into my bicycle than my car.
Anyway, I’m with dwford — something’s really wrong with an ’09 Corolla with this many major issues. My 99K-miler has only had a replaced serpentine belt and is on its 2nd water pump, but otherwise has had no issues. Bought it used, too. Toyota’s cost-cutting is really undermining their sole branding.
2nd water pump in 100K! I decided not to get a used Beemer after I looked at it’s service records and saw, among other things, it had gone through 3 water pumps, in 150K miles. Sounds like your “reliable” Toyota is on the same schedule. Water pumps and alternators are things I expect a reliable car to make 100K with…same with all major components.
I could never see myself going for the “free” tire deal. I like to actually choose my tires and am usually glad when the OEM tires are shot and I can put on something decent. Plus, I run winter tires and don’t let my 3 season tires go to the point that I have to change them. Tires are one of the most important safety items on your car…right up there with brakes. They both need to work or you could be in a heap of trouble.
I got an 07 camry for my wife, 4 banger edition. The tire change is, well, not quite a rip-off but not really free either. You pay up front for at least 1 new set of tires. Then you must maintain contact with the dealer every 5,000 miles. Then they make you wait far past the time I would’ve replaced them before they’ll honor the agreement. I finally got a new set on, and am hoping to get a second set a few years down the road. I wouldn’t do it again, but it’s the wife’s car and she feels better if I don’t work on it myself.
As for the carbon issue, I’ve noticed an engine vibration at start-up, or idling in gear with the A/C going. The dealer diagnosed a “carbon buildup” and wanted to charge way too much to pour a bottle of cleaner in the gas tank. This at 40K miles. Seems to me with fuel injection, computer control, etc. that a modern engine wouldn’t carbon up so fast. I’m kinda disappointed by this, but the wife doesn’t notice so I don’t say anything.
I got the car cause I didn’t expect to do anything other than oil and filters for at least 100K miles. I imagine the same thought goes for a corolla. I’m halfway there.
Pity that your wife prefers the dealership to maintain her car rather than her own husband.
There is nothing abnormal about a 4-cylinder car displaying signs of engine vibration after start-up or with the A/C on. Every four-cylinder car I’ve driven and owned – old and new – has done that, including my ’11 Camry. 4 bangers have inherent vibrations that can be largely quelled most of the time, but they are exacerbated when the A/C compressor kicks on or when the engine is still cold. I’m guessing you drive a V6 or larger and thus weren’t accustomed to the vibration when you drove your wife’s 4-cyl Camry.
The “carbon buildup” is a big line of BS, but not unexpected given that it is from a dealer.
Don’t buy into the dealer BS. There is not likely any carbon buildup in a modern fuel injected car. I have old cars (172K and 207K) and neither have ever had carbon buildup issues. Neither have any of the other fuel injected cars I’ve owned.
Beware your dealer. They have now demonstrated that they are not trustworthy. In my experience none of them are trustworthy.
My car specifies Mobil1 0W40. Some people with the same car have found that it smokes on start up. They switched to Redline 5W40 and the problem vanished for them. Switching to synthetic is a good first step and it it doesn’t do the trick going from 0 to 5 might – and you won’t have to add STP’s gearbox viscosity moose-pee-in-a-jar to keep bits and pieces oil-coated on start-up.
For issue number 2 there is a specific TSB regarding that:
http://www.empirepao.com/tsb/T-SB-0087-09.pdf
windnsea00 That is why I read this column. Somebody always seems to have the right answer. Great call on the TSB
Wow, I couldn’t find that. Nicely done!
I remember when Japanese designed 4 bangers sounded smooth as silk, and I’m talking early-mid 90s here.
My first foreign car was a 1994 Nissan Sentra, and I’ll never forget how quiet, composed and amazingly well put together everything was, including the refined little 1.6 liter motor, compared to EVERYTHING domestic I had driven up until then.
The contrast was truly a revelation.
When a neighbor whose father worked for GM came over to inquire about my new ‘foreign car,’ I told him how amazingly quiet the Sentra was, and he replied by saying that the creaks and rattles in his Chevy didn’t bother him at all, as he simply turned the stereo up loud.
That seemed an appropriate metaphor for the attitude of the U.S. auto industry at the time.
It’s surprising Toyota seems to be letting the refinement of their formerly legendary 4 bangers slip.
Ask the dealer to go to semi-synthetic oil for you, 5W-30 instead of 0W-30 (assuming it is an “option” in the owners manual to use that weightask the technician to leave it 1/2 quart low so you can add STP oil additive yourself and add it before you drive the car away from the dealer.
Personally, I would also add some ZDDP oil additive (IF you live in a state / area which does not mandate emission tests). ZDDP protects the engine at the eventual slight reduction of the efficiency of the catalyst. Very eventually, but eventually.
Use some fuel injection cleaner. Go drive the snot out of it to clear it out, then change the spark plugs for the best you can afford.
Then start buying ONLY Top Tier gasolines with extra detergent. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
If you have to go with 89 octane fuels, then just grit your teeth and do it. You don’t have to go all the way to 93 octane to get the benefits of less pre-ignition.
Most modern engines are set up to be so efficient and so close to the line that you can expect a very slight bit of spark knock under some circumstances.
Otherwise, please explain to me how my wife’s 2009 Sonata (4 cylinders) can blow the doors off of a mid 1960’s mid-sized V8 car in every single way including performance (0-60 in 9 seconds with automatic and with the a/c on) while putting out a genuine 28 mpg commuting and up to the mid 30’s on MPG highway when my dad’s once new ’64 Rambler Classic with 287 V8 couldn’t crack 0-60 in 12 seconds (with automatic and NO air), and got 15 mpg commuting and no better than 18 mpg no matter what.
Thank you for your very objective comments. I owned a variety of hot cars in my youth, and breaking 10 seconds to 60 was a very rare experience with a stock engine. Plus no one would believe you.
How can a modern small engine outperform an old V8? Easy, computers! Computer aided design of the engine, and computerized engine management.
As for the rattle, rule out the simple stuff first. It could be a loose exhaust bracket that only rattles during increased pressure exhaust from acceleration. Then again I have heard that timing chain tensioners rely on the oil in the car as hydraulic fluid and oil failure can interfere with proper functioning of the tensioner.That would kill two birds with one stone…just my two cents.
And on STP, if you feel you must use it, make sure the stuff is warm – inside room temperature – and the engine is warm before you add it. Otherwise this cold lump of syrup will not do your engine any good at all.
Whoa – stop the presses – nobody move! A Corolla having these problems? What’s happened here? Toyota has finally caught up with the rest of the carmakers and figured out their secret: Make things break so you have residual income from your customers when they come in for repairs. I used to say about Chrysler’s awful record of reliability, that was just their way of being socially responsible and bringing people together to interact with one another in a social setting – too many people staying home all alone, never talking to each other face-to-face! Make the cars break and you force people out of their comfort zone to come to your repair facility and force-feed them inane TV shows, force them to look at new vehicles, walk the lot, force them to talk to each other and sales personnel. We care!
“I used to say about Chrysler’s awful record of reliability, that was just their way of being socially responsible and bringing people together to interact with one another in a social setting – too many people staying home all alone, never talking to each other face-to-face! Make the cars break and you force people out of their comfort zone to come to your repair facility and force-feed them inane TV shows, force them to look at new vehicles, walk the lot, force them to talk to each other and sales personnel. We care!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So THAT’S why I spent so much time in my Dodge dealer’s grubby little waiting area! It was to improve my social skills! Thanks Chrysler!
John
But they always have such good coffee!!! (I’m not being sarcastic. Gerry Wood Honda uses S&D coffee, originating in Concord, NC.)
Our 2000 Corolla is truly idiot proof. Just last week at 148,000 miles I replaced the Mass Airflow Sensor ($66 for the part) and the light has gone out. That is the first repair in at least two years, since I replaced all four of the struts in the car. My wife bought it new, and it has been inexpensive to own.
Tires, brakes etc. are all cheap, and it is without ABS so I wouldn’t have to worry about DIY brakes jobs damaging that system.
I hate driving the car, but with a growing family, the cost of ownership and operation has truly lived up to the Toyota reputation for a commuter car.
I’m in the same boat – my wife’s ’01 Camry 4 cylinder, at 139k, has only needed a charcoal canister (allegedly because I topped off the gas tank and SHE never does) and an O2 sensor. Only regular maintenance items – tires (got 65k safely out of each set), brakes, and finally replaced the struts (daily beatings on DC streets and full carload highway trips shot them a long time ago). It really does drive like a new car with new tires, brakes and struts.
And since she refuses to learn to use the $35 map I bought and leave stuffed between the seats (and all the handsfree cell laws around here), a Pioneer nav/bluetooth headunit has been added.
I hate driving “The Appliance” as I nicknamed it a long time ago (gray on grey), but you gotta admire the engineering.
Wow. Alternator at 38K miles and less than two years and Toyota said too bad, so sad, go fix it ‘yerself. Front brakes in less than 45K miles? Timing chain rattle at less than two years old??? Pre-ignition on the conservatively tuned Toyota mill? Are you buying crap gas? Never mind the worst electric steering ever devised by man as standard equipment.
Are you sure they didn’t sell you a Pontiac Grand Am with Toyota emblems on it? I hear more stories like this all the time, and Hyundai looks sexier as the new “Toyota” every day.
Sounds more like a Vega than a Grand Am.
“and Hyundai looks sexier as the new “Toyota” every day.”
Lord knows, Hyundai doesn’t have ANY quality or reliability issues….*slapping my forehead*
I don’t understand why the alternator repair cost anything if your original warranty was 5/60, or was it actually 3/36?
The TSB work mentioned above by windnsea00 seems rather elaborate. I’d give that to the dealer as a warranty item.
As for the tire gimmick, I’d rather select my own [better] tires than be tethered to the dealer. OEM tires are often lousy.
I think the poster is confused on what oil should be in the car. 0w20 and 5w50 are vastly different oils. 0w20 is indeed a light oil, however, 5w50 is a heavy oil (comparatively). Assuming he meant 0w20 or 5w20. If the engine was designed for 20 weight oil, then that is what he should put in the engine. Putting in a thicker oil (like 5w30 or 0w30) may or may not cause problems. If he is in a cold climate, the 0w20 would be preferable as it would have better cold temperature performance with no reduction in overall protection.
“Putting in a thicker oil (like 5w30 or 0w30) may or may not cause problems.”
Of those two possible outcomes, the correct one would be “may not”. The even more correct one would be “will not”.
If a vehicle engineer specifies 20 weight oil for an engine, 20 weight should be used in the engine. Generally, those who design engines and publish the requirements for them know far more about them than some “guy on the internet”.
You can obviously do what you wish, but I only put oil in my vehicles that meets the specifications in the owners manual.
FWIW I had two Corollas, a 1993 and a 1995 while in college. Both were acquired new, and both of them would only run on 93 or higher octane. If I dared put anything less in them, they would rattle like an old Ford every time!
Thankfully gas was dirt cheap back then…
Maybe all new Toyotas should come with a bottle of seafoam in the glovebox.
It also makes a difference whether the car has a manual or auto. My ’89 Corolla (the last model year with carb) knocked like hell on anything less than 93 – pretty much since new. But it had a 5 speed stick and the knocking mostly happened when the engine lugged, such as starting out in 1st, or just being too slow in too high a gear. My current ’05 Corolla is an auto. The rough idling and slight pinging happens sometimes, but with 43k miles, I haven’t done anything but oil and filters. I use Conoco/Phillips, Chevron, or Shell regular grade – they all come from the same local refinery, just different detergents. Same tires and brakes since new – the tires are getting thin though. Apparently the oil recommendations from Toyota has changed, as my book calls for 5W30 only. And yes, the car is reliable but utterly devoid of any fun, passion, or character. Just soulless and boring. At least the ’89 was a little fun.
Can anybody tell me is there a difference in the way octane rating is measured between the US and Europe ? 87 octane had disappeared before I started driving in ’64 , and these days all we can buy is 95 or 97 octane.
I have never heard of a Toyota needing oil changes at 5000 miles. 10k is the norm these days on semi-synthetics and 20k on full synthetics.I run our two 90’s Mazdas on 10k / 12 month intervals on semi-synthetic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
In the US our numbers come out lower than the rest of the world, which is why my Chinese scooter designed for 90+ octane gas on a more “world wide” scale, runs just fine on 87 octane here in the US of A.
5000 miles or 6 months is specified in MY ’05 Corolla’s book – I assume this is the case for this ’09 in question. The dealership is probably using Pennzoil or some other cheap conventional oil. All you get from going to the dealership for oil changes is a stamp in the applicable page of the maintenance schedule and a genuine Toyota oil filter – big deal. After my 3/36 warranty expired, I do my own oil changes in my driveway – my twice a year ritual. The engine air filter is cheap but the cabin air filter is a freakin’ rip off.
US = (RON + MON) /2
Europe = RON
MON is always lower than RON
As a rule of thumb add 2-3 to the US numbers for the equivalent European number
Yikes! My 2008 Impala which now just turned 70,000 miles has needed one new set of tires, front and rear brake pads(still has original rotors) and the intermediate steering shaft lubed (that costs me under $100.00), has used no oil between changes, has it’s original alternator/waterpump/serpentine belt and starter, does not ping on 87 octane and runs as smooth and perfect as the day I bought it and the timing chain is dead silent. Sounds like Toyota quality has really slipped lately.
I had the fleet queen GM W-Body cousin Grand Prix from 2005 to 2009. Put almost 90K miles on it during my ownership. Did brakes front and rear at 68K miles. Did tires at 60K miles. Had a TSB repair done (under warranty) on a wiring harness for the remote start. Dealer also serviced/cleaned my 6-disc CD changer when it got picky with CDR playback. That’s it. I seem to vaguely remember there was some very minor recall issue that required some computer reprogramming, but I could be wrong on that. That is the sum total of what I put into it. Ran like a top on crap gas. No strange noises of squeaks. Had all the technology that a fleet queen grade GM W-Body could have stuffed into it like seat warmers, dual zone climate control and heads up displays. It was the most reliable car I’ve ever owned, and I’ve had cars from Germany, Japan, United States and Australia.
@ ponchoman49..I talked to an older cabby in Vegas last week,who had nothing but praise for the Impala. I also asked him, where were all the Prius that were around last year? He just laughed and shook his head.
Yup, I have an ’04 Impala. Has 75k miles. Dealer lubed the intermediate steering shaft and replaced rear rotors once (bad rotors on these models – not a big deal – warranty), brake job 1+1/2 years ago, bought tires around 55k, uses no oil, 3.4 runs great on 87 octane, too. No gasket problems – they fixed that by my year, I believe, besides, I maintain it to the book. I’m running a real-world test between my Imp and my wife’s 2002 CR-V EX (87K miles) – both maintained according to the “book”, and they’re running about even. Very happy with them both.
The Impala, boring as it is to some, is a real sleeper that is a pleasure to own. Plus, I personalize my car’s appearance to make it just a little different from the others (no “SS” make-believe, though).
The Impala was a leading contender for The Most Underrated Car – Weekend Butt Scratcher a few weeks ago. The primary issue was mainly with the lackluster, fleet-special 3.5L engine that GM saddles the vast majority of them with.
It’s a shame you have to pony-up thousands more for the top-tier LTZ version to get the more competent 3.9L.
Rudiger; “Weekend Butt Scratcher”
When I read that, I almost died laughing at work! For some reason, that’s really hilarious!
For me, I wanted the smaller engine – better gas mileage. I’m really cheap on that stuff and I hate buying gas. Anything less than 24 – 25 mpg around town or less than 30 mpg on the highway is unacceptable. It’s a big, comfy car and I want another one!
Wait a minute – this thread is about a Corolla, isn’t it? I find it interesting that the owner’s last comment about his gas mileage doesn’t impress me. It doesn’t really get much less mpg than my Impala. That’s inexcusable for a small car – it should get between 40 -50 mpg freeway, 30 -35 in town. Why but one? Last time I was in L.A., we had a rental Corolla – the most uncomfortable wheels I’ve driven since a Neon rental in ’04! A Cavalier was more comfortable.
I’m a little surprised at the Toyota’s issues, but then, I speak only from incidental evidence from the numerous Toyotas we’ve owned (and still own…my sister just sold her 2003 Highlander with 180k, my 1997 Tercel has 191k and I won’t ever give it up, and my mom’s 2003 Corolla is running fine (granted, it only has 78k on it)). Now…my 2006 Ford Fusion with 100k just recently crapped out it’s clutch and starter, and I’m suspect that the alternator is going…now I just laugh (right before I cry) at the “Why Ford?” commercials that Mike Rowe (a guy I really, really like, by the way) is pushing. Say what you will, but when I look at the success we’ve had with the Toyotas, and the $2000 in repairs I’m out for the Fusion, I’m hard-pressed to be a big Ford fan…it’s just a shame that Toyota bores the crap out of me these days…sad that VW has such horrid quality, as I’m really enjoying the Jetta I have this week as a rental…sigh…
100K miles on a clutch isn’t horrific – but it isn’t great.
I think overall car quality has improved a lot for more most makes an models from 2000 to 2010. I think Toyota has declined during this same period but still remains highly above average.
The person that wrote in with their questions is painting a picture of a real piece of crap. I agree with you about VWs.
I have a 1999 CR-V that I tow with several times a month. I tow up to 1500 lbs. Generally about 600-700 lbs. I’m still on the original clutch at 207K miles. There is no reason that a CAR should need a clutch when used as a commuter for 150K miles IMHO. I’m going to guess that either the Ford used soft clutch material or thin clutch material.
While we are bandying around with maintenance/failure stats. At 207K I have replaced a couple sets of brake pads on the front and a radiator. With OEM Bridgestone tires I got 45K miles. Twice. The problem with these tires was that for their last 40% of life they were noisy and vibrated alot. I suspect the belts were moving b/c I could have them balanced and a week or two later the vibrations were back. Am near the end of my fourth set of tires since new. 3rd and 4th sets of tires have been Michelins and they stay quiet and smooth until the end. Well worth the extra $20 per tire at purchase time.
The ‘V is on it’s original shocks, rear brakes, axles, starter, alternator, a/c required 1/2 of a can of Freon several years back (once), heater core, etc.
My point is that this is a heavy duty CAR. Maybe a light duty SUV. Honda in my opinion screwed up because they showed how good a car COULD be. I think all the manufacturers ought to build more quality into their products with slightly heavier duty parts like this CUV so they last longer with little or no part replacement.
Sure that would starve the dealers but as much as they have tried to screw me over (all of the brands I’ve dealt with) I don’t care. I’d happily take delivery at the factory door vs deal with a car dealer.
As for your Corolla – I don’t know what to say about the water pumps. You might have a design or a parts supplier with sub-par quality. If the design is at fault – there might be no brand of pump that lasts. It could be that Toyota has used suppliers that can’t build a water pump worth a damn. I’d replace the next one myself with one from NAPA (lifetime warranty) and see if that brand is any better.
45K miles on tires sounds about right for cheap OEM tires. No big deal. Buy something better next time. I have Michelin on my VW Cabrio and they have lasted about 70K miles so far. They are Michelin Harmony tires and warrantied for 80K miles I think.
I think the tech bulletin posted earlier says everything you need to know about the startup noises. My Hondas have always had a little start up noise for the first few seconds until the oil pressure came up. Since new. Nature of the beast. I run Mobil 1 10W-30 in the Honda in the winter and 10W-40 in the summer b/c it has so many miles on it. MPG hovers around 25-26 mpg no matter what I do with it – highway or city or towing my Brenderup trailer. I use WIX or Honda filters. I recommend the switch to the better oil of your choice. In the VW Cabrio I run the same oils and Mahle filters. It has 172K miles on it.
No need to buy ZDDP ($10 per oil change). The “xW50” Mobil 1 and Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil still have the old levels of zinc and phosphorus. (Go their web pages for info about how much ZDDP they contain for various viscosities). Then again, unless your Corolla has 1950’s-style solid lifters there’s no need to worry about boosted ZDDP at all. I’d think about the catalytic converter.
Also, how in hell can Toyota ask $720 for a Corolla alternator?
Remember, “free” tires and “free” batteries.
Especially if one assumes it had a 36k warranty, it was just barely out of it. The dealer should have gone to bat for the poster and got some kind of a deal out of Toyota. $720 for an alternator on a car 2k out of warranty is what you charge a customer that you never want to see again.
$77 from NAPA with a good warranty. That’s the route I’d go.
Is Toyota still using Delco alternators on Corollas? They were the only weak point on the 93 Corolla and 94 Geo Prizm (Corolla rebadge) my brother and I had.
My mechanic said to replace with a Denso and I never had to fuss with it again. My brother replaced a couple of Delcos before going to disposable “lifetime guaranteed” ones from his local parts chain.
Yeah but the disposable alternators the store I worked at sold lasted a year. Don’t want to do the same repair over and over and over. Especially if the alternator was in an awkward position that required crawling under the car. Pick a good alternator and you do the replacement once during your ownership.
>> …perhaps all you need is ….. a whole lot of time at full throttle at higher RPMS.
When I was in high school, we called this an Italian tuneup. Great for burning off the carbon and other deposits, just needed a spot where you could get the speed up to triple digits for a decent length of time.
Light detonation when crowding the throttle on regular gas is a reasonably common calibration feature these days, ten audible pings, occasionally, won’t harm your engine. Running continuous heavy detonation will destroy your engine sooner or later, and you won’t be able to hear it necessarily.
If the thing isn’t throwing any fault codes don’t sweat it.
“I am playing this game because it’s not worth getting crushed to death by a car over an oil change (like someone in my area two weeks ago) and I intend on getting my fair share of tires.”
If there’s any chance the car could fall and crush you when you’re working under it, you’re doing it wrong!
An engine that knocks and coughs is, as often as not, the result of gas that came from a shitty underground tank.
I filled my ’67 Pontiac with gas at a “no name” station just outside of Buffalo back in the mid ’70s before I came back to Canada. The line-ups at border city stations in Canada were clogged with American cars, and this one had no line up and was not sold out.
By the time I got back to London, Ontario (about 110 miles) my 283 was running pretty rough. I limped home to Sarnia (another 65 miles) and the next morning went to my mechanic, who, after trying a few different things (I left it with him and went to work) checked my fuel filter. He had changed it less than 2000 miles earlier and just couldn’t believe what he saw. It looked like it had been in an around the world rally!
Ever since then, only “Brand Name” gas for this guy.
Thank You for everyone’s input, and especially to windnsea00 for the TSB. My Corolla is an early model 3/08 build date out of NUMMI so I am sure it is included. I already printed it and will take it in with me at my 50K oil change. I have to add that since I wrote this to Sajeev, I noticed a whine in the transmission. (you can bet that I reported that one to TrueDelta) I took it in to my dealer and they replaced it under the 5/60 Powertrain Warranty. They were very apologetic and gave me a free rental Camry for the day while they swapped out the trans. I wrote a letter to the owner of the dealership about how unhappy I was with the car and he offered me a new Camry LE for $18,500 OTD, but Im kinda soured on Toyota and don’t really want that either. The alternator, by the way is not considered part of the power train (they call it electrical) and was not covered because the bumper to bumper was only 3/36.
@segfault. You have a very good point. I know it’s a gimmick. My 50K oil change along with new tires #3 and #4 (and the TSB service performed) will be my last visit at any Toyota dealership. And they are $50 Kumho’s – not Hankooks. … lol. I have to say the two Kumho’s they put on are waaaay better than the Goodyear Eagle garbage that came from the factory on the car. I should have just put 4 $100 Michelins from Costco on the car with my $70 off coupon they send me every other month.
@hankscorpio – yea, 50W oil was a typo
As far as the pinging goes, I have been using Mobil 89 midgrade and it has not been a problem. (Mobil 87 does ping though) On Sajeev’s suggestion, I am going to pull the plugs. I figured that they were platinum tipped, 100K mile jobs but its worth a look. And a bottle of seafoam is on the list too.
I have been fighting the itch to sell the car. I see high mileage 09’s like mine listed in the Auto Trader for $12,000 or so, which is about 3K more than I owe on it so it would give me enough for a downpayment on something else. It does have, and I do loath the electric power steering drift on the highway that this model is famous for. I just know as soon as I sell it, gas will shoot out to $4+ a gallon and I will lament selling it. Then I think of all the problems (especially the transmission) I have had with it and wonder if it will really last. But the 30-31 MPG is really nice… (see my train of thought…very frustrating…) Anyway, Thanks to ALL!
+1 on buying tires from Costco. Very high quality tires for prices that nobody else can match, plus nationwide warranty and lifetime balance/rotation. It’s worth buying the Costco membership just for tires.
Wait…you are the person that wrote to me? The person with THAT avatar? Why aren’t you dumping this thing and getting a 2003+ Town Car as a daily driver?
Last time I checked, all modern Toyotas used Iridium plugs…and from what (little) I’ve seen, they don’t go much longer than 70k, even by the owner’s manual.
Sajeev, for what it’s worth, my ’05 Corolla maintenance schedule calls for iridium plugs at 110k, but that seems a little long for me. Currently at 43k, I’ll plan on changing mine at 50k. The tranny fluid never needs changing (according to Toyota unless known misuse or abuse has taken place), but I’ll get it done at 50k. Ditto on the coolant – the book calls for 100k, but I’ll do it and hoses at 50k. And the timing belt is scheduled at 90k. I’ve been looking for an excuse to get rid of this lifeless lump, but it’s bought and paid for and runs well, so I’ll wait for it to get stolen or hit before I die of boredom.
@dastanley: those spark plug intervals are pretty shocking, but you’re doing the right thing. Except the hoses, they are probably fine at this age/mileage. But how are those seats?
https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/09/piston-slap-the-toyota-corolla-ce-is-a-pain-in-the-ass/
LOL! Sajeev, the seats are still a pain in the ass. I just kind of gave up on trying to bond with this Corolla. This December, it will be 5 years old, and in 5 years, I’ve never done anything to it other than oil/filter changes and tire rotations.
Although the car lacks a personality (which causes me to resent it for some reason), it does get great gas mileage on road trips. I used to do lots of trips to and from Farmington, NM and Phoenix. This is about 400 miles if I drive the route of Farmington-Gallup-Holbrook-Heber-Payson-Phoenix, (or just a round trip to Albuquerque) and I could do the trip in 2/3rds of a tank of fuel when filled up in Farmington to the filler neck. If I set the cruise at 60mph with no A/C and only 2 stops along the way, I figured that’s about 45-50 MPG, assuming the gauge is accurate. But the trip is painfully boring and uncomfortable. I’m looking for an excuse to replace it but I can’t argue with the economics – it’s so damn cheap to own and operate. But no, I haven’t replaced the driver seat, so I forfeit any further reason to bitch about the seats. :-)
Can anybody confirm a rumor that I’ve heard that said Michelin tires from a discount store are lesser quality than Michelin tires purchased from a Michelin dealer?
I called Michelin to ask them this and they just said they were “different”. Costco/Sam’s/BJ’s carries the X-Radial which the tire stores do not stock. I think this is more to prevent direct price comparison similar to what the appliance and electronics companies do.
OEM Michelin’s however, are generally far lower quality than those that you buy at the store. I know for a fact that the Toyota spec for OEM rubber is on the fine edge of not being able to be balanced. This is because they calculated that they could lower the quality spec for the tires and compensate with more sophisticated mounting and balancing equipment. Of course your local dealer/tire shop does not have the same equipment they use in the factory so your luck may vary with OEMs.
I thought about a Corolla when I researched a car buy in 2007, having had great luck with a 1992 Camry and 1998 Toyota pickup. I decided on a Mazda3, though, due to lots of owner raves and good reliability reports. I have never regretted my decision. The car is very fun to drive, gets about 36 mpg in mostly rural driving, and has been utterly reliable at 39,000 miles.
Yes Sajeev, i’m the person with THAT avitar :-) My fleet = 1979 Lincoln Continental Town Car, 2003 Chevy Silverado Extended Cab/Short Bed 1500, and the now infamous 2009 Corolla… The Toyo was bought to preserve the first two.
You read my mind 100%. I have always been a fan of both Lincolns and Cadillacs and have toyed with buying a current gen TC for years. I’ve been seriously scoping out clean 2003-2007 Town Cars for a few months now (gotta be a Wixom Car) I recently spotted a nice one 07 with 28,000 miles for $16K. As well documented on Panther Week, I think the TC will meet my criteria for longevity and simplicity. – Plus it is waaay more my style
Nice. Now find a Designer with THX and you’ll never care about the 10+MPG you’re losing compared to the Corolla. Of course, I have bias in that matter.
I own the last “true” japanese Toyota – a Yaris.
Mr. Karesh is already well aware of what I think about my pile of dung, and the dealerships. Sigh, I’m going in sometime next week, I suspect the wheel bearing is shot.