John writes:
That’s right, the Yuppie is back. After reading every one of the 117 comments to your July 29th response to my previous question, I have come to yet another crossroad. As much as I hate to admit, Steve won that argument. Ignoring some of the more ignominious comments about how much our family should spend on a house, 401K, kids, etc., here now is the master plan. I will cap my next car budget at $12,000, with $1000 set aside each year for maintenance. My desire would be to buy a 5-10yr old used car, use it for a year (spending less than the banked $1000 on maintenance), then being my fickle self sell it and get a “new” used mobile. I live in a state without vehicle transfer taxes or sales tax, so there are few transfer costs associated with selling a buying a new ride. The $1K maintenance account will be renewed each year.
So, now the question – best ride under $12,000 that won’t blow a tranny and cost me more than $1K a year to operate?
Top picks right now: S4 (yes, an Audi, but most on the market have had all the required maintenance done just to sell the bad boy…and I’ll only keep it for 12 months), Mazda 6, BMW 3, Lexus IS manual, G8…..the list goes on. Wife drives an Outback so we have our family hauler. I am 6’4″ though, so need some leg room. Thanks!
Sajeev Answers:
Very smart move! Buying a mostly depreciated ride is a smart way for a fickle person to have their cake and eat it too. Well, except for the “Audi S4” comment with a $1000 service budget. The prospect of hoping/praying that a 5+ year old Audi won’t need $1000 in repairs makes me giggle like a schoolgirl. Not that I do that very often…
But I digress; you are on the right track. Yet this train is moving too slowly away from the place of your past automotive transgressions. Put more coal on the fire and arrive at a mundane destination: Mazda 6, Infiniti G, Mustang GT and a slew of mainstream performance machines have a reasonable chance of needing nothing but oil and gas for a year of ownership. Everything else is a dangerous crapshoot, one that your wallet may regret. Unless you magically fall in love with this used beater and choose to ride the cheap car gravy train for years to come.
Steve Answers:
It depends on what you want out of a vehicle. $12k will net you a nice Mustang GT, MX-5 or Honda S2000. All of which may sail under the $1000 maintenance mark given the proper maintenance by the prior owner.
Which brings me to the big point. That prior owner is going to have a huge impact on your maintenance goals and driving enjoyment. For $12,000, you will be buying a vehicle in much the same way as a new pitcher inherits a ballgame. If the prior occupant was erratic with the car, you can look forward to some potential high cost maintenance around the corner. I would consider prior records to be a minimal consideration along with a pre-purchase inspection by an established independent shop.
A good shop will also serve as your ‘catcher’. Their job is to catch the small problems before they become big ones with yacht sized repair bills to match. You may think a lot of what I’m saying is a given. But you would be surprised how many folks simply buy with their eyes and ignore the demons that lurk just beneath the surface.
Speaking of Madame Beelzebub, that $12k mark hits a very nasty price point in the market for the European vehicles. Much of the Benzes, Bimmers and Audi/VW models in this price range are made out of the equivalent of low-grade recyclable plastic. If you must go the European route be sure to avoid anything with a turbocharger. I would happily opt for the bigger engined, non-turbo models if cost of ownership is going to be a factor for you. Take a look at TrueDelta, Edmunds, Carsurvey and MSN owner reviews to get the real scoop on the ownership experience… and don’t discount the non-enthusiast versions of cars that come with more space and room.
Which brings me to my top choice for a one year flirtation. A $5,000 car that is perhaps seven to nine years old, along with $7,000 invested in an oil shipping stock that pays a nice dividend. In all seriousness, a good used car doesn’t usually come with a $12k price tag. A ‘trader’ like you will likely lose a few grand on depreciation every year. At the lower price points you have less money to lose and more to ‘invest’ in your ride. That’s why an older Lexus that has been well-kept drives so much better than a 5 year old Benz that has been repoed and ratted out. The manufacturer and the owner ‘invested’ in the quality of that car.
I would opt to buy a well kept sled with a healthy level of sporting tendencies, and save my occasional enthusiastic outburst every few months for a little something that makes your car that much more enjoyable. An upgraded stereo system. Top of the line struts and tires. OEM parts that come straight from the local auto recycling center. I would become a frequent visitor of the enthusiast site related to your car, and just acessorize it to your heart’s content. You would be shocked to find how affordable it is to make an older car drive like it is brand new.
Need help with a car buying conundrum? Email your particulars to mehta@ttac.com, and let TTAC’s collective wisdom make the decision easier… or possibly much, much harder.
Mazda 6 Sport, V6, manual transmission. There’s a decent number in that price range on auto trader within 500 miles of my location in Gallup, NM. Zoom, Zoom… Family car for a man who’s not neutered.
I agree. I had an ’04 ( 6s, V6, Manual ) and it was a great performer and is roomier than it looks — it effortlessly handled a long golfing road trip with 4 people and their clubs at 100 mph on the freeway……
I would have agreed with that a couple of years ago – the Mazda V6 is AWFUL and prone to self-destruction.
That makes sense, because the Mazda V6 is really a Ford engine.
New Mazda 3 @ 0% for 60 months and keep your money liquid. Keep the 3 for 15 years and you’ll save a fortune and not be stuck with someone else’s money pit.
A G8 for $12K?!?!?
You’re DREAMING! Maybe one in a wrecking yard with a salvage title needing way more than $1K worth of repairs. Even a V6 2008 G8 base model is going to sell close to $20K today.
I think the suggestions of Honda S2000, prior-gen Mustang GT, or a Mazda MX-5 are solid suggestions. You might be able to find a 2004 Pontiac GTO with the 5.7L LS1 V8; they aren’t super desirable but not bad cars. $12K is bumping the top of the ceiling.
I concur, dead brand or not, they didn’t make that many, and I’m sure you can’t find one that cheap.
Honestly, the first three cars that popped into my head were the ’94-’96 Impala SS, Buick Grand National/Regal T-Type, and ’89-’95 Taurus SHO.
However, none of these cars seem even close to your present style, and I really don’t know if they would meet your $1000/yr maintenance requirement anyway (although resale time probably wouldn’t be too bad).
Therefore, I’ll just go with what I wrote on your first post and say manual-equipped TSX. Manual Accord if you can’t find an Acura for $12K.
Edit: Oh, and there is always my standard response of the M45 or 3rd gen Q45. Seriously, the V8 Infinitis need some love.
Lexus SC400, nearly indestructible.
Awesome. Even a SC300 would cut it.
I drove a 1994 SC400 back in 1996-1997. It soured me on Lexus products for a long time. The engine and transmission went merrily on their inefficient ways, but the Lexus dealer was plenty busy trying to keep all the gadgets functioning. IIRC, it had about 44,000 miles when I gave up on it. For the money being discussed here, I’d look for a nice IS300.
I’d look at the last of the made in Japan Nissan Maximas, model years 2002 or 2003. Has VQ35 engine with timing chains instead of belts and gets close to Steve’s $5k price. Same vehicle is also available with luxury Infiniti i badges.
it’s true. 12K is an odd price point. too low to get something nice and lightly used. too high not to take a few grand in depreciation on most cars. i think i agree with steve. at least on the price. see what you can find for 5K-7K. however, upgrades are probably not worth it for you. if you’re going to trade it out in a year you’re just buying the next owner a nice stereo because you’ll never get even 20% back in selling price.
all that said, if it were me, i side with ajla. the 05 -08 tsx is a great car.
Circa 2000 BMW 330 Convertible. Does it get any more yuppie than that?
I would actually aim for one with slightly more than 60K miles on it where the previous owner shelled out for BMW’s 60K service. I think the next expensive service is at 100K for those cars.
One huge if here. The E46 is very stout, but BMW came up with the lifetime maintenance farce around this time. The same time they came up with the “we pay for maintenance” sales pitch. You will want to find an example that was enthusiast owned, and the oil changed every 5-7k, not the computer’s 10-12k. Change things like Diff oil and manual trans oil-they say lifetime but I’m on my sixth and third changes respectively. The E46 automatics of that era last 120k but manuals last a lot longer. If Automatic, check reverse, it is the first to go, it’s a GM tranny and you’d better have 4k or so to replace it. Go manual, and change every fluid when you get it. Also, Control Arm bushings last 80k, so expect a $500 bill to replace two big grommets at the bottom of the car. (when they die it is normally mis-diagnosed as warped rotors or bad shocks-actually not a horrible DIY fix)
Once you get away from the dealership, most parts can be found for “normal” prices and there is a HUGE aftermarket. Regular repairs (brakes, etc) are fairly easy and don’t require Bavarian Bat Piss to accomplish. Look for a car with the Sport Package-better seats and bigger brakes, along with slightly stiffer chassis tuning. (I’ve got 230k and running on a 2003 sedan) (brake job at dealer, $1200, brakes in your driveway using German OE supplier parts, $450, and pretty much the same multiple for everything else-there are a lot of specialists who can fix this car)
By flipping every year you are vastly increasing your chances of hitting a lemon. If that lemon happens to be a BMW, the fix is gonna hurt. So I have three thoughts:
(1) If you buy a car that turns out to be mechanically sound, keep it for longer than a year.
(2) Stick to the domestics to lower your up-front costs… year for year, there is less depreciation remaining for you to absorb during your ownership (you get a better-quality vehicle with a used Japanese car, but you pay for everything you get). Also, repairs for a domestic are cheaper.
(3) If comfort is your main priority, find a used Chrysler 300, panther-based Ford/Mercury, or a Buick.
Also, repairs for a domestic are cheaper.
Do you have any evidence for this? Everything I can find shows the cost of parts and service to be about the same.
A/C compressor 2006 Fusion = $324.85
A/C Compressor 2006 Camry = $328.12
“Also, repairs for a domestic are cheaper.
Do you have any evidence for this? Everything I can find shows the cost of parts and service to be about the same.”
There’s more to cars than air conditioning compressors. Just FYI.
I used to “flip” once in 6 months at average and after 9 vehicles in 5 years and never got burnt. And I do like having some weird and notorious machinery, like ZJ Grand Cherokees, old SAABs, bimmers and mercedes. All said, I am with a 05 Outback for the last 1.5 year though. Just love the looks and utility and cannot figure out a proper substitute.
Just do your homework, choose wisely and bring along somebody who can notice trouble spots if you are not sure about your own skills.
Oh, and never ever buy from dealers if the motor is older than 5 or so years. Detailing and pre-sale preparation kill all evidence under the hood – and in the cabin too.
Gimme a P . . .
“P!”
Gimme an A . . .
“A!”
Gimme an N . . .
“N!”
Gimme a T . . .
“T!”
Gimme an H . . .
“H!”
and so on . . .
http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/default.html?AVi=7&id=6702733&D=90&ASTc=saab%209-3&zip=60137&sP=NA-14000&pD=0&pI=0&pT=400&pC=200&pB=0&No=0&Ep=search:results:results%20page&Rp=R&PP=20&sV=List&CD=662+14+240+190+398+9&Q=2c30da92-aafd-4083-945c-a8e553dcd89f
2006 Mazda MX-5. Pure sports car handling, reliable, and you can find them all over the place for $12k or so with low, low mileage.
OH MAN…12k….Infiniti G35’s, E39 BMW’s, LS 430’s
Or how about like the other guys say…a little older…maybe an Lexus LS400, and a truck with the spare change? Or a beater Miata with the spare loot? An old 5.0?
Hey I’m sure you could buy one of those Really Really cool Chrysler Sebring’s with the cool “strakes” on the hood…that’ll really turn your neighbors green with envy!
Modern Saab turbos in that price range are exceedingly reliable, so I thoroughly disagree with that particular advice. You can get a nice 04-05 9-5 Aero for that money. Old design, but well sorted, rapid, and a huge amount of charm. Mazda 6, Maxima??? I’d rather walk.
But in general, I think folks are being a TOUCH over-dramatic here. In my extensive experience European cars (with exceptions) are just not particularly ruinous to run. Especially if you have any DIY ability at all. EVERYthing is expensive to fix these days. So go get a nice, well maintained S4 and enjoy the thing for a year. Hell, get a $12K M5! The trick, as Steve said and I agree, is buy very, very, very carefully.
And whoever suggested a bloody PANTHER for a yuppie enthusiast – are you on drugs?!
We just spent 12K on our second car: a 2006 Forester 5-speed w/Premium Package (OK, it was bought from a sibling, but that’s the amount of trade-in value his new-car dealer had offered). This is relevant because our other car, an ’03 Legacy wagon purchased new, is our “family hauler” like your Outback is, and we are happy enough with that decision that we saw not much of a downside in becoming a two-Subaru family. Outside of a chance of gasket problems (which is said to be less likely with newer versions of the 2.5 engine), I think it will be reliable and it certainly is fun, especially on dry roads. Agile, useful, and you can see out of it. (Plus that huge sunroof.)
All of folks who are suggesting a Mazda Miata or a Honda S2000 seem to have overlooked the fact that John is 6’4″ – he is just not going to be happy in either of those cars with the top up. I’m 5’10” with a 30″ inseam, and I barely fit in a Miata that has had the popular seat foam removal surgery for tall folks. The Honda is no better when it comes to interior room.
As to a Mustang GT, Panther platform, or for that matter any other American car, that’s just not a Yuppie choice. Mustangs in particular seem to come standard with a mullet haircut – they are the bargain performance choice, but you are not going to impress the folks that Yuppies want to impress.
I think John’s idea of a Mazda 6 is spot on – nice handling and performance in a reliable package. A Mazda 3 is an even better idea – I rented one recently, and even with an automatic transmission, it provided as much fun as I wanted on the the Twisted Sisters route in Texas (http://www.motorcycleroads.com/routes/SouthWest/TX/TX_3.shtml) and it had nice headroom. In a year or two, early Mazdaspeed 3’s and 6’s will be in his price range, and that’s a good thing – all the more reason to buy something new every year or two.
Well the defunct Pontiac G8 should be honored to be on the “yuppie” list, even if wears a Pontiac badge.
He’ll never find one for $20K, and have a hard time finding a V6 one for $20K for that matter that isn’t completely dogged out with high miles.
As to a Mustang GT, Panther platform, or for that matter any other American car, that’s just not a Yuppie choice.
True, but an American car like a Grand Marquis, Impala SS, Lucerne CXS, or Mustang GT can be driven ironically.
Being a hipster is a much more modern lifestyle than being a yuppie.
I’d do an “old man find” Panther, but the wife won’t hear of it. She just does not appreciate Irony-wants a mom Uber Q7
+1 regarding the s2000 and the Miata. I am John’s height, and when I had my mid-life crisis 7 years ago and went shopping for roadsters, those two flunked the size test for me, with no room for doubt. I ended up with a Z3, which just barely works for me size. The issue is headroom, not legroom.
Jeez…. Bruce, you must have a huge melon then ;)
Unless you can DIY, forget $1000 per year per maintenance on a European car. Even independent shops charge $300-500 per axle just for brakes. Clutches are $1500-3000 , timing belt $800-$2000 the list goes on. If you drive that S4 like you stole figure on a prety good tire budget.
Long term ownership is sometimes better as it starts to even out. My A4 was less than $300 per year , but that was over 10 years.
I disagree with Steve a well kept low pressure turbo engine will last a long time with synthetic oil. I have seen many Audi, VWs and Volvos at 200,000 miles on the original turbo. Just stay away from chipped cars.
I would go Mazdaspeed 6 with the turbo AWD and 6 speed.
Well gotta say surprised no one has said Saab, buy one used and with a stick you will get a great deal in the 12 k range no problem, he will fit in it so check, a yuppie car check on that, they are well put together ( really they are ) get a clean bill of health from your local shop and your good to go, if you perfer the saner route Acura TSX is your friend but lower on the Yuppie scale, The only down side is you may really like it and hold onto it.
Second on SAAB. 2004-05 (best years) 9-5 Aero is the one to go for.
I wouldn’t go with a 9-5 earlier than 2004. We owned a 2000 9-5 wagon and burned up 2 turbo’s in 75k miles, with gentle driving habits. Terrible car.
As the owner (from new) of a 9-5 Aero wagon (2002), I would not have a lot of confidence in the $1,000 annual repair budget. In addition to the usual routine maintenance, my car has had to have motor mounts replaced (a lot of labor and therefore expensive), has oil leaks from the main bearings (so far small enough not to matter), has had an alternator failure, has chronic ps fluid leaks, and the auto tranny is questionable (when it gets heated up in stop and go traffic in the summer, going from N to D produces an ominous “clunk.” The car now has about 78K miles on it.
And parts for this car seem to be right up there in price with parts for German cars.
A manual version would avoid the autobox issues, but not any of the rest. In fairness, the street private party price for my car seems to be about $7,000 — $9,000.
For a two seater yuppie mobile, a nice Crossfire could be had around 12K.
For the “Young Urban Performance Person”, a four seater low mileage RX8 would be up to the job.
Crossfire? Not if he’s over 5’11”
Spend $8-10k on a well kept BMW M3 from the E36 generation (’95-99). Bank the extra $2k for maintenance. Don’t get stuck with payments on a 4 cylinder front-drive econobox. Life is too short to drive boring cars.
The biggest mistake you could make is buying something like an Audi. I would steer clear of nearly everything European made in the last 10 years. The maintenance costs will kill you, and $12,00 means you’re getting them right when they’re about to blow up.
A great pick would be something like a Lexus IS. Reliable, easy to maintain and work on, enthusiast following. Finding a nice one at $12k shouldn’t b a problem at all. Anything Lexus though would work.
As much as I like the Mazda 6, I always thought they needed more power compared to…
2004/5 Accord Coupe V6
2004/5 Altima Sedan V6
This is a comment on the amazingly retarded “De-gentrify DC: Kill a Yuppie” poster. (And I swear it isn’t just the fact that I live in an East Coast city and drive a Mini Cooper that’s motivating this.)
A. In many cases, particularly in a city like DC, it would be more accurate to call it ‘regentrifying’ than ‘gentrifying.’ Those are awfully big and ornate old houses the yuppies are fixing up, aren’t they? How do you suppose those big ornate houses got there?
B. Gentrification is the process by which bad neighborhoods, with lots of crime and little commerce, in which people would prefer not to live (i.e., even the people who live there would *love* to move out if they could afford to) become good neighborhoods with little crime and lots of commerce, in which people are very happy to live. That’s bad? That should be stopped?
C. Is there something natural and right about the process by which neighborhoods move from higher-income to lower-income, and something upsetting and wrong about the process by which they move the other direction? No! Neighborhoods change!
D. You are definitely not allowed to complain about BOTH the ‘white flight’ of the 60’s and 70’s AND the ‘gentrification’ of the past decade and a half. If one is bad, the other is good.
What would you expect from a city that just fired Michelle Rhee?
Glad I’m not the only one who found this offensive (not blaming the authors). Given the crime in DC, this is not funny.
You can file this under the heading: ‘some people just too stupid to help themselves’
It’s not so much offensive as it’s ignorant. And i’m not sure how I feel about the new Mini…
some days i want one…. then, i’m not sure. :)
Stay groovey, man.
Lorenzo St. DuBois.
+1 Since I live in the place. Regarding the firing of Michelle Rhee, let me just say that Rhee and soon to be former Mayor Fenty are doing a great job — with the aid of the WSJ and some other conservative outlets — of spinning the DC mayoral race as being about the triumph of the teachers’ union, etc.
As a person who supported Fenty with several thousand dollars (at different stages of the DC election process) in his initial run, let me tell you that’s a very small part of the story. The very big part of the story is that, as Mayor, Mr. Fenty turned around and gave the cold shoulder to the concerns and nearly every other person/group who supported his election. It’s a tragedy, really, because Fenty, in many respects, including with the schools, did good work here in DC. But he fell under the influence of an old-time big firm, lawyer (whom he appointed attorney general and who was de facto running the government) whose response to everyone was “go soak you’re head in the Potomac.” I and lots of other Fenty supporters were amazed and apalled.
His successor has promised to keep reforming the schools . . . we’ll see how that works out.
+1 to DC Bruce. Although in the category of gentrification, look no further today than the results of black flight to PG and their finest screwing their constituents – Jack Johnson is Marion Barry without the white nose.
Iniiniti G35. Acura TL, Nissan Altima or Maxima (all of appropriate year to be in price range.)
I agree that flipping cars greatly increases your chances of getting a lemon. If I ran into a good one I’d plan on keeping it at least a couple years…probably longer.
Your best bet is NOT to have a flip schedule. Drive a car till you don’t like it…if you are really disappointed, start looking a week after you sign the papers. If you do, drive and enjoy.
I find a good car is like a good woman. She grows on you as the comfort level does the same. Soon you know just how hard you can push the corner, or that 1000 mile trip will be event free…in a good way. Soon you will buy her things…not because she needs them, but because she deserves them.
But what if your wife doesn’t value ‘things’?
Well then… I guess you just go to the library and pick out a few books.
Don’t get an Altima with the 2.5 engine from 2002 to 2007, they are a nightmare sea of failed sensor after failed sensor as you break 100K miles.
Yea I don’t know about keeping a b5 s4 on the road for 1k a year. I had mine for about 7-8 years. From about 12,xxx miles to 135,xxx miles. I loved the car, and kept it serviced better than recomended. It still cost me about 7k in the last year of ownership for repairs and service and probably averaged 3-4k a year between 70-130,xxx miles. Ohh I serviced through and independent specialist and used aftermarket/upgraded parts were appropriate which were usually cheaper. You could probably double that figure if she was going to the audi dealer. Its still my favorite sedan I’ve ever owned, and I’ve had some really nice stuff. After my turbo upgrade, the car had an easy 300whp, it was as fast, comfortable and was great in all weather. Plus its a low key, conservative car. You don’t look like a douchebag or wannabe driving it like you do in a 10 year old 3 or 5 series.
“You don’t look like a douchebag or wannabe driving it like you do in a 10 year old 3 or 5 series.”
This douchebag loved his e39, even though it was 10 yrs old. But I’m a prick, so what do I know.
Guys, you seriously need to put down the crack pipe and lay off on the “Audi = bank account drain equivalent to the US deficit” meme….For the past, going-on-five years, I have owned an A6 Quatro Avant, which is now 14 years old has a few ticks over 160k on the clock. In these 5 years, and 70k miles, my TOTAL repair cost has been $2k, just over $400 per year. The car is still nice and tight, smooth and will cruise safely above 3 digits. Doubt like hell I am the exception. How about it, fellow Audi owners: Are you as fed-up as me about the serious dissing Audi’s take on this site?
Audi has to be doing something right…their sales both in US and worldwide have been increasing.
Please don’t provide me any, “well, I HEARD of a guy who had one and HE said…” stories. Lay facts on me which prove your case, or STFU about Audi’s lack of reliability and purported “insane” cost of ownership. My “capital” cost per mile, including purchase price, repairs and scheduled maintenance, with this Audi is about $0.18 US per mile…driving an upscale marque with lots of style, comfort, amenities and capability. Which is in the ballpark of the same costs for an Honda Accord Wagon which was my last ride for 7 years.
John…there are a plethora of A6’s and A4’s out there in the 12k range…my advice is buy one out of a town like Chicago…the European marque owner there tends to be circumspect about the scheduled maintenance due to the state’s inspection process….and since there tend to be a lot of Euro owners, that keeps the prices down. And please don’t give any credence to these poseurs who think they know from Audi’s…..To borrow an advertising line from another marque….”Ask the man who owns one.”
My 185,000km Camry averages $900/year in maintenance and my 210,000km LS430 is about $1700/year. That’s including stuff like tires, rims, annual rustproofing, $3500 laser cruise control replacement, windshield replacements, etc. That’s for 2 cars I’d consider “extremely reliable”.
And that’s not including the fact that my gas costs are 40% higher and insurance 100% higher per year than the Camry.
If you can keep your Audi on the road safely for that little, more power to you. But I find the $1000/year repair goal of the original poster to be laughable for this category of vehicle.
Please repeat with me: There is no such thing as a $12,000 european car. Certainly not one that can be maintained for $1k/year. There are $25k european cars and there are $5k european cars (that are called projects and are best enjoyed with clubs that serve as support groups). Actually the $5k kind can become a $12k european car, but carries with it the mindbending cost of finding rare/expensive parts that, coupled with the cost of unexpected downtime, will turn the car into a $25k european car in a heartbeat.
I recovered from my yuppie phase (which resulted in a new 1985 GTI) about 1987 when I sold it and bought a 66 Fury III. I remain clean and refuse to be an ennabler. There are Japaneese, American or Korean cars out there that can put you on the road to recovery too. Good luck.
Grew up in the back seat of a 1966 Plymouth Fury VIP… no, we weren’t homeless. Great car, awesome memories!
Stey groovy man,
Lorenzo St. Dubois.
$1000 per year maintenance for a Euro Sedan? Unless you DIY you gotta be kidding.
Brakes $400-600 per axle, timing belt $800-1500, clutch $1500-3000 at a dealer or independent. Oxygen sensors , all four $1000.
That S4 will eat tires at $500-800 a set also. A new turbo on an S4 requires the engine be removed. The later V8 S4 is more reliable but nowhere near as fast in addition to being a gas guzzler.
I DIY on our German cars and over the last 13 years that we have owned them they have averaged out OK.
My best advice: Network through friends and neighbors for anyone selling a car, that way, if it’s one that fits your needs and you know about the person who owns it, and, by extension, how they take care of it, if the answers and data are positive, done deal.
I take very good care of my vehicles and in our previous city I had a neighbor who waited until I put a car up for sale and he bought every one of them. Same thing where we live now. So far, two cars to the same individual, two years apart. My daughter’s 1997 Cavalier still runs well directly across the street that another neighbor bought. Reputation is everything.
The one thing that is probably not wise to do at this point is to pre-select a specific vehicle and look only for that vehicle. You’ll probably get burned.
That’s my best advice from too many years of experience both good and bad.
Volvo S80. Lots of space for a 6’4 guy, nice looking, European and nice looking.
RWD at this price? Infiniti G.
I actually bought a five year old Lexus IS300 with 66,000 miles on it for $12,000.
All the maintenance was done timely, by the Lexus dealer. Had new brakes/rotors and tires.
History shows that with just the scheduled maintenance, plus the usual brakes, tires, etc, this car will likely last 250,000 miles or more without ever braking down.
I bought it for that reason (longevity and reliability), plus sporty enough.
BTW, I sold a 2001 Audi A4 with under $90,000 miles. Just before the expensive timing belt, water pump, and other maintenance was needed. I actually never had to spend more than the regular maintenance on it. Back then the first 50,000 miles was included free (like BMW). I was lucky, I guess…
Whether you end up with a good used car or not depends largely on the previous care the car received no matter what make/model it is. While it is true that a european car may cost more in repairs it may also hold it’s value better. Make room in your budget for getting the car independantly inspected and a proper vehicle history (may be obligated by law). Find a mechanic that will not only inspect the vehicle for obvious problems but will research known problems for that particular car and look for warning signs. The relatively small cost of doing this may help keep you under your maintenance and repair budget.
Before investing, why not visit local service shops, especially ones that service Audi, to get the lowdown on what those cars might cost to maintain?
Audi owners I’ve spoken to all say the same: lovely to drive, expensive to own/fix (especially outside warranty). Still, the Audi cachet is powerful these days and perhaps the S4’s pleasure will be worth its pain.
mark mcinnis,
You car has a 2.8 which isn’t that expensive to fix. I’d be willing to bet though on your 2.8 oyu have a lot of small oil leaks and wet spots that could be fixed if you were really meticoulous. Also, your car is a couple body styles old and doesn’t have the complex front suspension that needs all the control arms (5 per side iiirc) replaced every 50 or 60k. I’m sure if you took the car to the dealer or specialist, he could find several thousand dollars worth of little things needing fixed. My S4 had turbos replaced 3 times, a clutch, multiple oil leaks fixed over its life, a new steering rack, accesory tensioner replaced twice, a t least a half dozen wheel bearings, tons of rear pads and rotars probably 3 sets of fronts, numerous repaired coolant leaks, control arms were done twice, all boost hoses needed replaced, my center info display was replaced when uit failed, all four window regulators were replaced, i could go on and on. Most of this stuff occured after my new car warranty expired. Don’t get me wrong, i loved the car and to me it was worth it. I am a certified porsche audi, vw nut. Thats all I buy.
I am of the persuasion that a car is a tool, not a toy. It’s a machine that provides transportation from point A to point B. For entertainment, go to a racetrack. Most car owners must agree, or else how does one explain the popularity of the Camry, the epitome of car as appliance.
$12,000 is too much for a disposable car. $5,000 is more like it. First, find a mechanic you have confidence in and who works in a shop you trust. Then buy a car that mechanic works on. New cars are just an excuse to get a warranty. A good mechanic is worth his weight in gold. Stick to a domestic vehicle. Repairs are cheaper and the rust proofing is better.
I have had good luck with Mopar minivans. I buy high mileage ones for $1,000 to $2,000 and drive them for 100,000 miles (usually to between 250,000 and 300,000 miles). The 3.3 liter is bulletproof. The only repairs I’ve had have been the usual tires, brakes, struts, and the occasional fuel pump. My ownership, insurance, and repair costs are in the 3 cents per mile range.
Personally I’d rather ride the bus than spend the rest of my driving career in high-mileage Chrysler beaters, and if this guy is looking at BMW’s and Audis then he’s probably of a similar mind.
How often are you in and out of the car? Our S 2000 is very difficult to enter and leave with the top up.
Mazda6…that is until the hesitation starts. Throttle body goes south for a few hundred bucks
What about a Legacy GT- 05 or so? Those are a bit of sleeper fun. Just make sure the oil was changed….
If you’re 6’4″ you can’t get into an MX5 at all, and once you’re in an S2000 you can’t wait to get out. I’d love to have either one but am no fan of amputating both my legs just to own one.